Wanting to put together another 6.5 creedmoor with the extra M5E1 receiver set I have and I cant decide which barrel to go with. Will the craddock signature series barrel be worth the extra $140?
- Thread starter steve101610
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My Zev 6.5 I built with a proof stainless will shoot .5 moa with quality ammo if I do my part. There are plenty of better shooters than me as well so I'm the limiting factor. My proof carbon fiber in 223 wylde shoots just as good as well.
I just received a Proof 6.5CM SS yesterday from Optics planet, unfortunately it was the wrong profile but I took some time to bore scope the barrel. The chamber and reamer work was excellent but the gas port work was not very good and showed heavy chipping.
Due to the fact they didn't have the profile I was looking for I decided just to go with the carbon fiber Barrel option, I will take some more pictures and compare the two when it arrives next week.
As as for Craddock/ Bartlein vs Proof they are both going to be single point cut barrels but the individual attention to detail that Paul puts into his Barrel work is what's going to set these two barrels apart.
Due to the fact they didn't have the profile I was looking for I decided just to go with the carbon fiber Barrel option, I will take some more pictures and compare the two when it arrives next week.
As as for Craddock/ Bartlein vs Proof they are both going to be single point cut barrels but the individual attention to detail that Paul puts into his Barrel work is what's going to set these two barrels apart.
@bigjake83 what bore scope are you using?
I'll have to check when I get back home but it was just something off of Amazon that had good reviews.
Amazing borescopes for the money. I have the wireless version and it syncs to my phone everytime. Basically you just open your wifi and pick the borescope and then open the Mo-View app. Very easy
I have that one as well I just carry this one in my toolbox
Have both a Proof CF 20” +2 gas and a Craddock Bartlein 21” rifle gas, but a 20” +2 1:7 twist Krieger that John Scandale from Keystone Accuracy did for me is just slightly more accurate than the other two, and all three are capable of .5” on any day I’m equally capable. Good to have a variety of very viable options to choose from.
Is the craddock worth the extra cost over the proof?
I'll let you know soon, I've had a Craddock 22" Bartlein and I've just placed a order for a 24" 6.5CM Proof Carbon barrel, never used a 24" before so it will be interesting to see if the extra 2" will make a dent.
The Craddock Bartlein Barrel shot sub 1/2 MOA .376
These will all be tested out of a Seekins SP-10 Receiver Set, and as soon as Compass Lake gets their Bartlein Blanks in I'll be able to compare them as well.
I've also got a LaRue OBR I'm going to saddle with a 18" Rifle Length Gas 6.5CM from Compass Lake as well.
Yes I'm Bored..lol
Proof carbon and SS barrels should shoot relatively the same, weight and some potential cooling benefit the only difference. Both are cut rifled. Don’t know what net cost of a Craddock Bartlein Signature Series barrel is or what extras it includes, such as threading or fluting, but at $690/$830 for Craddock or nearly the same for a Proof CF, you’re in the same neighborhood. I have nearly $1k in the Krieger, but it was threaded, fluted and coated, and shoots lights out, as was the goal.
Pick your poison and price point-you really won’t go wrong with any of the above, though there is that lead time thing, if you’re the impatient sort.
Pick your poison and price point-you really won’t go wrong with any of the above, though there is that lead time thing, if you’re the impatient sort.
That's what got me ordering more proof barrels, 4-5 months for a quality Craddock or Compass lake barrel I have no issue with but this 9-12 month wait is bullshit.
So my AR10 experience is one of those where I had nothing but problems. I originally had a 20-inch 308 Bartlein barrel from Craddock. It cycled 100%, however I had a really tough time shooting sub-moa. I worked up a couple loads where I would occasionally shoot a tiny group, but it was never consistent. Did a TON of troubleshooting on my technique and put over 1,200 rounds down the barrel and just couldn't get the accuracy I wanted. Called Paul and he suspects I'm having carbon ring issues - not sure if that's truly the issue because I pulled the barrel.
I ended up purchasing a Proof 24-inch 6.5 Creedmoor barrel to try something different. Proof barrel hammers tiny groups. Took 5 shots to get a nice zero then my next 5 shots are the group below. I've set up a 1 MOA target at 600 yards and had no issues connecting all day even with a 10-12 mph wind. Funny thing is that with the Proof barrel the rifle wont cycle
so now I have the accuracy I want but a gun that wont work. Sent my Proof barrel off to a gunsmith and it turns out the gas port needs to be opened up.
If I could go back and do it all over again I would've just bought a complete rifle from JP or GA or something like that.
I ended up purchasing a Proof 24-inch 6.5 Creedmoor barrel to try something different. Proof barrel hammers tiny groups. Took 5 shots to get a nice zero then my next 5 shots are the group below. I've set up a 1 MOA target at 600 yards and had no issues connecting all day even with a 10-12 mph wind. Funny thing is that with the Proof barrel the rifle wont cycle
so now I have the accuracy I want but a gun that wont work. Sent my Proof barrel off to a gunsmith and it turns out the gas port needs to be opened up.If I could go back and do it all over again I would've just bought a complete rifle from JP or GA or something like that.
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@bigjake83 is drilling the gas port in the rifling common practice?
Usually not on my custom barrels, but I have seen it on mass production barrels.
The Proof gas barrels I’ve had through my hands all had visible with the naked eye burrs at the gas port. Granted it’s a very small sample size, but that’s across calibers and frames, so not very encouraging. Glad to hear they seem to shoot though.
Have also seen the burrs in barrel’s gas port on interior of barrel, most recently on a 300BO barrel. Hard steel, bad drill bits or process? Would surely hope they’d catch that in QC, or have a better means of correcting issue. I’ve cleaned them up, and they do shoot very well, but irritating to know they’re shipped in that state and require attention prior to assembly.
Proof chambered barrels leave something to be desired. Their blanks have enough issues without monkeys also doing the cambering.
FWIW, when I finally got my barrel from Craddock, (back when the wait was only 4 months) I noticed the gas port straddled the transition between a land and a groove. I called and Paul told me that in his experience, there was no accuracy difference between a gas port straddling a land and groove and a gas port centered in a groove. He went on to tell me that of all the cases that he had seen where a barrel showed gas port erosion that was faster than normal, they all had ports that were centered in a groove. So he no centers ports in a groove unless a customer specifically requests it.
I called Proof yesterday and that's basically what they said no measurable difference in accuracy or barrel life in regards to the gasport location.
I also email them the pictures of the Gas Port out of that SS Barrel and they said shoot it, if it doesn't perform at Sub 3/4 or less with match ammo they will replace it.
So at this point I have no regrets with choosing Proof Research for my current build, it's not just about the quality of the product, but how they stand behind their products that makes the difference.
What MV are you getting from your 24"?
The New Proof CF 6.5CM came in today, gas port looks perfect.. will post more pics once I get it assembled.
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Well here she is, put it together with @FALex this evening. I'll take her out next week and post the results.
I shoot proof barrels on literally everything. They shoot lights out no matter the caliber or gun IMHO.
I did make some minor alterations I decided to go with the Lantac full mass 1lb 2oz Carrier that has the oversized boss at the tail end to mitigate carrier tilt, also utilizes directional gas vent ports so that the gas assist in driving the carrier in a straight line to the rear during recoil and also further pushing the gases away from the shooter's face.
The bolt is a JP HP and which is what Proof recommended to match with their barrels.
All in all I think this is going to be an exceptional shooter.
No Sir I don't run cans, I actually rather enjoy pissing the people off to the left and right of me on the firing line..lol
It's a fucking great rifle. Jake has forgotten more than I'll never know when it comes to installing these barrels for optimum accuracy. Looking forward to shooting it real soon.
I'm at the range right now just shooting some cheap Hornady whitetail 120 GR hunting ammo for barrel break in, gas block and muzzle brake adjustment and it's already grouping about 3/4 MOA.... Only issues I'm having now is it so damn cold and windy I can't feel my fingers...lol
I just shot three 3rds groups of 14O American Gunner, 140 ELD Match, and 147 ELD Match, they all look to be about .5 MOA when I get back to the house I'll update this post with pics.
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140 American Gunner, 140 ELD match and 147 ELD Match all shot .5 MOA
140 American Gunner .509
140 ELD Match .562
147 ELD Match .502
Total of 18rds fired today in 36° high wind, couldn't even feel my fingers. The Proof Research carbon fiber Barrel is showing great promise and I have no doubt with Handloads it'll be a consistent Sub .5 MOA shooter.
The rifle performed perfectly and smooth as butter, no failures at all and the recoil is practically non-existent. I'll start working on handloads soon as possible.
Normally I would have done several 5rd groups but box ammo is crazy stupid expensive now so I'll start on handloads this week.
140 American Gunner .509
140 ELD Match .562
147 ELD Match .502
Total of 18rds fired today in 36° high wind, couldn't even feel my fingers. The Proof Research carbon fiber Barrel is showing great promise and I have no doubt with Handloads it'll be a consistent Sub .5 MOA shooter.
The rifle performed perfectly and smooth as butter, no failures at all and the recoil is practically non-existent. I'll start working on handloads soon as possible.
Normally I would have done several 5rd groups but box ammo is crazy stupid expensive now so I'll start on handloads this week.
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No Sir I'm running the H2 JP SCS, that coupled with the SA adjustable gas block, American precision arms adjustable muzzle brake and full Mass carrier with the forward directional gas port it is probably one of the smoothest shooting creedmoors I've put together to date.
If anyone has ask questions regarding some of these builds I put together, or have any equipment they'd like me to test on the Proof Barrels send me a PM I'd be more than happy to help with any testing I can.
The average cost of a custom Bartlein or Krieger Barrel is slowly creeping up to the same price bracket as Proof so I definitely understand why most people aren't comfortable dropping $900 on a PR Carbon Wrapped Barrel, so if there's anything I can do to help y'all's decisions let me
Know.
I'll throw some hand loads together sometime soon and get some MV readings from them and box ammo so we can all see what the numbers look like, I have a funny suspicion that going with a 24" inch barrel really isn't going to provide much of a increase in MV over a 22". The main reason why I decided to go with 24" other than just availability was that in Southern Idaho everything is flat so getting the most muzzle velocity I can while using a High BC Bullet like the 147ELD out of a large frame gasser seems to be the name of the game.
As I've mentioned above I'm also starting a project using a LaRue OBR with a Custom 18" Bartlein Barrel from Compass Lake, it's going to be real interesting comparing the differences with the 18" and 24".
The average cost of a custom Bartlein or Krieger Barrel is slowly creeping up to the same price bracket as Proof so I definitely understand why most people aren't comfortable dropping $900 on a PR Carbon Wrapped Barrel, so if there's anything I can do to help y'all's decisions let me
Know.
I'll throw some hand loads together sometime soon and get some MV readings from them and box ammo so we can all see what the numbers look like, I have a funny suspicion that going with a 24" inch barrel really isn't going to provide much of a increase in MV over a 22". The main reason why I decided to go with 24" other than just availability was that in Southern Idaho everything is flat so getting the most muzzle velocity I can while using a High BC Bullet like the 147ELD out of a large frame gasser seems to be the name of the game.
As I've mentioned above I'm also starting a project using a LaRue OBR with a Custom 18" Bartlein Barrel from Compass Lake, it's going to be real interesting comparing the differences with the 18" and 24".
I wouldn't think so with the 147 having a BC of .697 especially if I can get it over 2700 FPS. The the 130 SMK is definitely on my to-do list along with the 153 A-tip.
The problem with gassers is that the pressure curve is way different than what you can reload for in a Bolt Gun.
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Yeah I've been thinking of the same thing.
Just thought I'd update this thread...
So I went back out to the range in the snow and fucking rain today because I swapped scopes and wanted to finish fine-tuning the muzzle brake.
This Proof Barrel is a fucking hammer !!, after I re-zeroed the scope I shot two groups, one with Hornady 147 ELD Ammo and the next with Hornady 140 American Gunner..
To put this into context not even my Custom Bartlein's from Craddock or CLE shot Box Ammo this accurately or as consistent, I had to handload to maintain Sub 1/2 MOA. Next weekend @FALex and I will take it to a indoor 100yrd range and I'll shoot some 5rd groups.
They were both a little on the slow side for a 24" Barrel but it was below 40° at the range so I'm hoping with warmer weather and the barrel being fully broke in it should speed up a bit.
So I went back out to the range in the snow and fucking rain today because I swapped scopes and wanted to finish fine-tuning the muzzle brake.
This Proof Barrel is a fucking hammer !!, after I re-zeroed the scope I shot two groups, one with Hornady 147 ELD Ammo and the next with Hornady 140 American Gunner..
To put this into context not even my Custom Bartlein's from Craddock or CLE shot Box Ammo this accurately or as consistent, I had to handload to maintain Sub 1/2 MOA. Next weekend @FALex and I will take it to a indoor 100yrd range and I'll shoot some 5rd groups.
They were both a little on the slow side for a 24" Barrel but it was below 40° at the range so I'm hoping with warmer weather and the barrel being fully broke in it should speed up a bit.
Did you have time to see how the barrel length affected velocity and staying in a higher node? Is the 24” worth it over the 20 or 22 inch barrel with the same heavy bullets, or not tested both?
I haven't ran the 20" yet but here is the following info I have.
24" PRCF with 41.0grs of H4350 / 140 ELD's/ Starline Brass.
Here's (2) Bartlein barrels same in every way except length, one is 18" and the other is 22"
Both are shooting the exact same load of 40.4grs or H4350 /140 ELD's/ Lapua Brass.
18"
22"
I'll go through all this once I finish the review on the two rifles, LaRue OBR and Seekins SP10 both with Bartlein barrels that Paul Ross of CLE did specifically for me.
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I’d send that back. Especially since the proof barres proves the shooter isn’t the issue
Everyone turns out a turd now and then
I have a Seekins 308 with a proof 20” 6.5cm barrel. And adj gas block
It’s real loud to the shooter with a 338 ultra or ultra 9 can.
Can I change the buffer or Bcg or something to help this
Loud from the shot or are you talking about the sound of the buffer/spring dragging inside the receiver extension?
Well changing the Buffer or BCG isn't going to change that. I don't use suppressors so I cant help you on this one, maybe a can with lower back pressure???
Suppressors just seem like a solution looking for a problem.
So looking at this it seems the 22” really doesn’t give up much of anything to the 24” being in the same velocity node without excessive pressure or beating up the brass to get there?
The 24" PRCF with the load of 41.0grs of H4350 is right there at the edge of showing pressure signs.
And the 22" Bartlein with 40.4grd is a relatively light load, I did shoot 41.0grs in it but it didn't group as well as 40.4 so I didn't chronograph it but I'd be willing to bet it would be the same as the 24" PFCF if not faster, the PRCF barrel is the slowest 6.5CM barrel I've ever had.
So to answer your question, no there is no real advantage I can see at this point to run the 24". However I just ordered a 24" Bartlein 6.5CM to test that very question, apples to apples using Bartlein blanks from Paul at Compass lake instead of comparing PRCF to Bartlein's.
Here are the groups from my SP10 with the 22" Bartlein, the two groups are pretty close so I'll more than likely run it again and check the data to make sure.
The 40.4 load in my 18" Bartlein in the OBR was a clear winner and I don't see any reason to test any further.
Remind me in a month to update my findings, the new 24" Bartlein will be in my brand new JP LRI-20, I have exceptionally high hopes for this build.
I also have a annealing machine on order so I'm hoping with staying on top of that since I'm exclusively running Lapua SP Brass now will also help keep everything more consistent nech tension in the reloading department.
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