Proper Use of Rear Bag

[DustBun]

I would like some advice in regards to the proper use of a rear bag. Specifically, should I get the bag adjusted so that the rifle is aimed where I want it and then discontinue any further muscle input into the bag and just let is rest or should I continue to squeeze/hold the bag to maintain the aim?

I ask because I was watching the Magpul Art of the Precision video and they stated, and I am paraphrasing, that you do not want any muscle input into the rifle, even the bag.

If it matters, I have a Knights SR-25 and I am using the SAP Run n' Gun Bag and I have been squeezing the bag and holding it.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am really focusing on my fundamentals and trying to go to the next level and every little bit helps. Thanks.

 

[b6graham]

i use a str8laced. very light fill. 3 very different height options. if the height of one of the three sides doesnt match up ill pull the cords to make abetter fit and eliminate the input as much as possible but often on stages i cant judges well enough to pull the cord beforehand and make due. i squeeze and hold and havent seen much issue as far as input on the rifle

 

[Cfshooter]

I can never get the crosshairs to sit still in the perfect spot without applying pressure the the rear bag. The squeeze of the bag, the cheek resting on stock, and the pulling of stock into my shoulder with the bottom 3 fingers of strong hand, really help get me in tune with the rifle. If that makes any sense.

 

[b6graham]

I can never get the crosshairs to sit still in the perfect spot without applying pressure the the rear bag. The squeeze of the bag, the cheek resting on stock, and the pulling of stock into my shoulder with the bottom 3 fingers of strong hand, really help get me in tune with the rifle. If that makis s any sense.

correct, but the key is making the pressure as minimal as possible. this isnt f class

 

[Cfshooter]

Agreed!

 

[Slash0311]

Natural Point of Aim is the position the rifle rests in witout any muscle manipulation. This would be the best solution to shooting. The rear bag is manipulated to fine tune your elevation. So ideally you squeeze the rear bag as little as possible. The less muscle power you have to use to put your crosshairs on your target, the better. You'll never be able to remove all muscle manipulation but you'll be more accurate once you stat using less and less muscles.

 

[DustBun]

Thank you everyone for your input and advice.

 

[Dthomas3523]

When set up in the rifle, it’s ok to use a less or more pressure for elevation.

Your horizontal however shouldn’t be affected.

You also don’t want the bag so short that you have to squeeze the shit out of it to get the ass end of the rifle up to bring the crosshairs down.

Once you feel like you are set up and have minimal squeeze on the back, relax, close your eyes, take a couple deep breaths and on at the bottom of your breathing cycle, open your eyes.

If the crosshairs is not still exactly where you want it, you need to adjust as your natural point of aim is not setup properly.

Once you can close your eyes and open them after a couple breathing cycles without the reticle moving, it’s time to move onto dryfire.

 

[Cfshooter]

When set up in the rifle, it’s ok to use a less or more pressure for elevation.

Your horizontal however shouldn’t be affected.

You also don’t want the bag so short that you have to squeeze the shit out of it to get the ass end of the rifle up to bring the crosshairs down.

Once you feel like you are set up and have minimal squeeze on the back, relax, close your eyes, take a couple deep breaths and on at the bottom of your breathing cycle, open your eyes.

If the crosshairs is not still exactly where you want it, you need to adjust as your natural point of aim is not setup properly.

Once you can close your eyes and open them after a couple breathing cycles without the reticle moving, it’s time to move onto dryfire.

Good stuff right there. I love all the little tips that can be picked up here.

 

[kriller134]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you supposed to grip your stock too with index finger and thumb? I thought I heard Frank saying that in a podcast or online training video.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you supposed to grip your stock too with index finger and thumb? I thought I heard Frank saying that in a podcast or online training video.

You can, yes.

 

[Racer88]

You might find my post about "pre-squeezing" the rear bag interesting. I discovered this approach by accident. Works well for me.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...eze-bag-targets-never-sleep-at-night.6920929/

 

[TheGerman]

The Magpul video is sort of right, but the wording makes it sound like the gun should magically be hovering and pointing at the target by itself. The only muscles you should feel are your firing arm bicep from a constant rearward pull equal to the weight of the rifle, and a few fingers on your weak hand manipulating the rear bag.

Also get it out of your mind that you will put the rifle on the bag, perfectly aimed at the bullseye, get behind the gun properly, load the bipod....and then it will still be magically centered. It wont; instead, its simply setting up the gun and getting it pointed at the target so you can align your body to it easier.

Even if its not lined up, learn how to move your lower body and then upper body + gun to the target and keep very good body position.

Find a bag that's a good height and doesn't have a gigantic amount of slack in it. Especially with a SOPMOD or any AR type stock, which aren't designed with rear bags in mind, you'll need a bit of a bigger bag. I drove myself nuts using the typical square/sock bean bags with a Mk12 and M110 before all of the PRS type of bags started to exist. I now use a waxed Game Changer on everything from my Barrett to a Mk12, M110 and random bolt guns.

- Put the bag under the stock and smash it down a little (someone mentioned pre squeezing; this helps as the recoil from shot to shot will settle the bag and you'll start getting upward movement on the barrel)

- Set up normally behind the gun. Body position, pull the rifle back into the shoulder, load the bipod. When you come down on the bag from loading the bipod, you should be on target but may need some fine adjustment. Ideally, you'll be slightly above your desired POA. If you're way over or way under, you will need to see what combination of bipod height and rear bag height you need to get you there.

- Important: have your rifle pulled back into your shoulder, with positive force pulling it back with the bottom 3 fingers on your firing hand BEFORE manipulating any fine adjustment on the rear bag and dont let go. I've noticed over time that if I did this in the opposite order, I'd end up with more movement on the gun and needing to readjust after a shot.

- Finely manipulate the rear bag and get the reticle on target. Don't fire right as you do, let it settle, breath 1-2 cycles, fire on natural pause unless there's a reason you can't. If you feel yourself shaking or forcing it on target, your NPOA is off and/or you are using more muscle input than the rearward pull and bag manipulation.

 

[Erno86]

In the right conditions --- for my benchrest rifle --- I would prefer having contact on the rifle, with only my trigger finger on the face of the trigger. I'll leave a 1/4" inch space between the rifle and my shoulder pocket --- All so as I can reduce heart beat bump effect on the rifle. At the most....maybe I'll use a light cheek wield.

I'll adjust the front pedestal rest for elevation changes, while making sure that none of the sling swivel studs come into contact with the front or rear bag.

WARNING: Don't use cancer causing asbestos laden talcum powder on the bags, so as to help make the rifle slide rearward in the bags easier. Asbestos fibers do not deteriorate in the human body.

Instead...I use slippery stock duct tape on the forearm and the bottom of the buttstock that I purchased from Brownells --- So as to make the rifle recoil slide in the bags better.

On somewhat windy days (from a solid bench)...I'll use left or right finger squeeze pressure on the rear bag for wind drift adjustment.

I have at least one rabbit eared rear bag filled with leaded #9 birdshot --- Though it's against the rules to used leaded bags in some rifle matches.

I've discovered that flexible moving rifle benches work well on windy days ---- especially with my 22's --- whereas I only manipulate the side to side motion of the bench left or right with the trunk of my body; or by using elbow pressure that is leaning on the bench.

 

[Dirty30]

I’m not trying to cut anyone’s method of shooting down but at the point of shooting with the only body part putting force on the rifle being the fingers why not just do a rail gun. I like to use my off hand to make elevation changes as well as windage. I feel like that’s what showcases how good the shooter themselves are if you take all human elements out then your showcasing how good the rifle itself is and maybe that’s what people are going for but imo that’s just a glorified railgun. Like I previously stated not cutting anyone down but there’s not much skill involved with this type of shooting an example of this would be that I can give a buddy who’s only shot a few times my rifle put a rear bag let him squeeze the trigger and hit 1000yd shots all day then when he tries to freehand at 400 can’t hit the broadside of a barn. That style to me doesn’t take any skill from the shooter but I guess that’s just a matter of opinion and maybe I’m in the minority of people thinking this way but it just doesn’t make much sense to me to even hold the gun at that point

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’m not trying to cut anyone’s method of shooting down but at the point of shooting with the only body part putting force on the rifle being the fingers why not just do a rail gun. I like to use my off hand to make elevation changes as well as windage. I feel like that’s what showcases how good the shooter themselves are if you take all human elements out then your showcasing how good the rifle itself is and maybe that’s what people are going for but imo that’s just a glorified railgun. Like I previously stated not cutting anyone down but there’s not much skill involved with this type of shooting an example of this would be that I can give a buddy who’s only shot a few times my rifle put a rear bag let him squeeze the trigger and hit 1000yd shots all day then when he tries to freehand at 400 can’t hit the broadside of a barn. That style to me doesn’t take any skill from the shooter but I guess that’s just a matter of opinion and maybe I’m in the minority of people thinking this way but it just doesn’t make much sense to me to even hold the gun at that point

While I generally agree, it still takes really good wind reading skills to when shooting out to distance.

Benchrest is a whole different animal that practical rifle. Though some are definitely trying to blur the lines a bit. But that’s how innovations happen.

 

[_Raining]

I’m not trying to cut anyone’s method of shooting down but at the point of shooting with the only body part putting force on the rifle being the fingers why not just do a rail gun. I like to use my off hand to make elevation changes as well as windage. I feel like that’s what showcases how good the shooter themselves are if you take all human elements out then your showcasing how good the rifle itself is and maybe that’s what people are going for but imo that’s just a glorified railgun. Like I previously stated not cutting anyone down but there’s not much skill involved with this type of shooting an example of this would be that I can give a buddy who’s only shot a few times my rifle put a rear bag let him squeeze the trigger and hit 1000yd shots all day then when he tries to freehand at 400 can’t hit the broadside of a barn. That style to me doesn’t take any skill from the shooter but I guess that’s just a matter of opinion and maybe I’m in the minority of people thinking this way but it just doesn’t make much sense to me to even hold the gun at that point

Some things done to improve accuracy is impractical, some are not.
20 lb front rest, impractical.
RRS Carbon Fiber Tripod to shoot more accurately while raising the rifle off the ground, practical. And if shooting at an animal, using a tripod is more ethical then free handing it (At least in my opinion it is).

All competitions are games. I don't think straight jackets with buckles and straps everywhere were standard issue for our military yet that is what you will see in a service rifle match.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Some things done to improve accuracy is impractical, some are not.
20 lb front rest, impractical.
RRS Carbon Fiber Tripod to shoot more accurately while raising the rifle off the ground, practical. And if shooting at an animal, using a tripod is more ethical then free handing it (At least in my opinion it is).

All competitions are games. I don't think straight jackets with buckles and straps everywhere were standard issue for our military yet that is what you will see in a service rifle match.

Very valid point

 

[TonyTheTiger]

In the right conditions --- for my benchrest rifle --- I would prefer having contact on the rifle, with only my trigger finger on the face of the trigger. I'll leave a 1/4" inch space between the rifle and my shoulder pocket --- All so as I can reduce heart beat bump effect on the rifle. At the most....maybe I'll use a light cheek wield.

I'll adjust the front pedestal rest for elevation changes, while making sure that none of the sling swivel studs come into contact with the front or rear bag.

WARNING: Don't use cancer causing asbestos laden talcum powder on the bags, so as to help make the rifle slide rearward in the bags easier. Asbestos fibers do not deteriorate in the human body.

Instead...I use slippery stock duct tape on the forearm and the bottom of the buttstock that I purchased from Brownells --- So as to make the rifle recoil slide in the bags better.

On somewhat windy days (from a solid bench)...I'll use left or right finger squeeze pressure on the rear bag for wind drift adjustment.

I have at least one rabbit eared rear bag filled with leaded #9 birdshot --- Though it's against the rules to used leaded bags in some rifle matches.

I've discovered that flexible moving rifle benches work well on windy days ---- especially with my 22's --- whereas I only manipulate the side to side motion of the bench left or right with the trunk of my body; or by using elbow pressure that is leaning on the bench.

LOL
Go back to telling us how you're going to singlehandedly impeach Trump.

 

[DustBun]

When set up in the rifle, it’s ok to use a less or more pressure for elevation.

Your horizontal however shouldn’t be affected.

You also don’t want the bag so short that you have to squeeze the shit out of it to get the ass end of the rifle up to bring the crosshairs down.

Once you feel like you are set up and have minimal squeeze on the back, relax, close your eyes, take a couple deep breaths and on at the bottom of your breathing cycle, open your eyes.

If the crosshairs is not still exactly where you want it, you need to adjust as your natural point of aim is not setup properly.

Once you can close your eyes and open them after a couple breathing cycles without the reticle moving, it’s time to move onto dryfire.

Thank you, this was helpful.

 

[DustBun]

You might find my post about "pre-squeezing" the rear bag interesting. I discovered this approach by accident. Works well for me.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...eze-bag-targets-never-sleep-at-night.6920929/

Great write up. I actually figured this out about a week ago accidentally and now I read it here. Thank you.

 

[DustBun]

The Magpul video is sort of right, but the wording makes it sound like the gun should magically be hovering and pointing at the target by itself. The only muscles you should feel are your firing arm bicep from a constant rearward pull equal to the weight of the rifle, and a few fingers on your weak hand manipulating the rear bag.

Also get it out of your mind that you will put the rifle on the bag, perfectly aimed at the bullseye, get behind the gun properly, load the bipod....and then it will still be magically centered. It wont; instead, its simply setting up the gun and getting it pointed at the target so you can align your body to it easier.

Even if its not lined up, learn how to move your lower body and then upper body + gun to the target and keep very good body position.

Find a bag that's a good height and doesn't have a gigantic amount of slack in it. Especially with a SOPMOD or any AR type stock, which aren't designed with rear bags in mind, you'll need a bit of a bigger bag. I drove myself nuts using the typical square/sock bean bags with a Mk12 and M110 before all of the PRS type of bags started to exist. I now use a waxed Game Changer on everything from my Barrett to a Mk12, M110 and random bolt guns.

- Put the bag under the stock and smash it down a little (someone mentioned pre squeezing; this helps as the recoil from shot to shot will settle the bag and you'll start getting upward movement on the barrel)

- Set up normally behind the gun. Body position, pull the rifle back into the shoulder, load the bipod. When you come down on the bag from loading the bipod, you should be on target but may need some fine adjustment. Ideally, you'll be slightly above your desired POA. If you're way over or way under, you will need to see what combination of bipod height and rear bag height you need to get you there.

- Important: have your rifle pulled back into your shoulder, with positive force pulling it back with the bottom 3 fingers on your firing hand BEFORE manipulating any fine adjustment on the rear bag and dont let go. I've noticed over time that if I did this in the opposite order, I'd end up with more movement on the gun and needing to readjust after a shot.

- Finely manipulate the rear bag and get the reticle on target. Don't fire right as you do, let it settle, breath 1-2 cycles, fire on natural pause unless there's a reason you can't. If you feel yourself shaking or forcing it on target, your NPOA is off and/or you are using more muscle input than the rearward pull and bag manipulation.

Thank you, I will try working with this. Great write up.