Rifle Scopes PSA - Burris XTR Signature rings

[BurnOut]

So, protip with these rings... the instructions that come with the Burris XTR Signature rings (the ones with the plastic inserts) specify a torque value for the screws that clamp the rings to the rail (40-70 in/lb), but there is no torque value specified for the ring clamp screws. I called Burris, and they said 20-25 in/lb.

My findings, however, indicate that 20 in/lb may not provide adequate clamping to hold the scope in place under heavy-ish recoil. Shooting a medium-weight 338 WM, I experienced the kind of groups that can only (hopefully) be explained by loose scope clamping. I didn't re-clamp the scope until I got home (35 in/lb now), so I haven't confirmed that that's the issue, but I figured that I'd at least let everyone know what the manufacturer recommends.

 

[koshkin]

Did the scope slip in the rings under recoil of the 338LM? If it hasn't, it is unlikely to be scope clamping.

ILya

 

[BurnOut]

Did the scope slip in the rings under recoil of the 338LM? If it hasn't, it is unlikely to be scope clamping.

ILya

I'm not sure, to be honest. I checked for marks on the scope body that would indicate slippage and didn't see anything, but with the plastic inserts, I may not.

The groups that I was seeing were pretty inconsistent... one shot maybe 3" high, the next maybe 2" to the right, etc... I'm not going to say that I (as the shooter) am definitely not the problem, but I will say that I'm usually considerably more consistent than that, even with similarly large cartridges (for instance, shooting 300 WM, I can typically maintain about 1 MOA; sometimes a bit less, sometimes a bit more). While this is a different gun, the difference between 300 WM and 338 WM isn't all THAT much to explain the results that I got.

I have re-mounted the scope (I needed to adjust the eye relief a touch anyhow) and clamped it in with 35 in/lb. I'm hoping that that was the problem, otherwise I have something considerably more expensive or time-consuming to resolve (the gun is a brand new build, and this was its maiden voyage to the range, so I don't have prior history to use as a basis for comparison).

 

[Birddog6424]

I have these rings on my 300 Norma magnum with the 5-25 XTR II. My son in law has the same rings on his 338 Lapua magnum with a NF Beast. We both have 20 MoA rails and used the ring inserts to get another 10 MoA. They've performed without issue at 25inlbs.

As odd as this may sound, I hope it's something as simple as the rings in this case. The alternative may be worse..

 

[Poorboyr]

I can tell you by experience that I have had nothing but problems with these rings. They continually come lose except when you cake the Loc tite on them. That is using three different sets on three different rifles with recoil as low as a 223. I have used their specs and over their specs with negative results.

 

[BurnOut]

I can tell you by experience that I have had nothing but problems with these rings. They continually come lose except when you cake the Loc tite on them. That is using three different sets on three different rifles with recoil as low as a 223. I have used their specs and over their specs with negative results.

Hmm. I hope that I don't have that experience... in my case, they held their installed torque value over the course of a whopping 49 rounds. It's definitely something I'll keep an eye on, though... I appreciate the heads up.

 

[Birddog6424]

I can tell you by experience that I have had nothing but problems with these rings. They continually come lose except when you cake the Loc tite on them. That is using three different sets on three different rifles with recoil as low as a 223. I have used their specs and over their specs with negative results.

I haven't heard of that issue before.

Between Optics Planet and Amazon there is feedback from 100 people, and these rings get a 4.8 out of 5. Which kinda mirrors everything I've heard about them. They sell well and seem to be pretty well-liked..

Odd that you would go 3 for 3. Makes you wonder if something else wasn't going on.

 

[koshkin]

That is odd. I have four sets at the moment, I think, and none ever came loose.

ILya

 

[Poorboyr]

I haven't heard of that issue before.

Between Optics Planet and Amazon there is feedback from 100 people, and these rings get a 4.8 out of 5. Which kinda mirrors everything I've heard about them. They sell well and seem to be pretty well-liked..

Odd that you would go 3 for 3. Makes you wonder if something else wasn't going on.

Feel free to think whatever you want. I'm just saying my experience. The rifles were for 2 different people and 1 for myself. They broke lose when they were shooting them.

I myself only use mark 4, seekins, or badger. Ive never had a single issue with any of those. To me the extra money is worth not playing the lottery.

 

[ra2bach]

kind of a dumb question but which way do you mount the bases on the rail - with the allen head to the left or to the right?

it wouldn't seem to make much difference but the lug on the bottom ring half is offset to one side from center and I'm trying to determine if that lug should be positioned forward on the rail or rearward...

 

[koshkin]

kind of a dumb question but which way do you mount the bases on the rail - with the allen head to the left or to the right?

it wouldn't seem to make much difference but the lug on the bottom ring half is offset to one side from center and I'm trying to determine if that lug should be positioned forward on the rail or rearward...

I don't think that makes a difference, as long as front and rear rings are oriented the same way.

ILya

 

[Gohring65]

20 in. lbs. on a 338 Lapua with a XTR2 4-20. No slipp, but I degrease all contacts involved.

 

[BurnOut]

20 in. lbs. on a 338 Lapua with a XTR2 4-20. No slipp, but I degrease all contacts involved.

As it happens, I have confirmed that it's NOT the scope slipping in the rings, but rather my rifle's utter hatred of the projectiles I was using that was responsible for the poor grouping that I was seeing.

 

[koshkin]

As it happens, I have confirmed that it's NOT the scope slipping in the rings, but rather my rifle's utter hatred of the projectiles I was using that was responsible for the poor grouping that I was seeing.

Did you figure out which bullets it likes?

 

[Birddog6424]

I switched the 5-25 off my 300 Norma to lend to a friend. Got it back and remounted it at 22inlbs. Once I had it re-zeroed I put 3 confirmation shots in a ragged hole. Put 40 rounds through it from the boringly easy range of 1100 yards, then out to mile. They are still money for me.

 

[Birddog6424]

As it happens, I have confirmed that it's NOT the scope slipping in the rings, but rather my rifle's utter hatred of the projectiles I was using that was responsible for the poor grouping that I was seeing.

Well thank goodness it was something simple.

Glad you got it figured out

 

[BurnOut]

Did you figure out which bullets it likes?

So far, the Hornady 230 ELD-Xs are showing encouraging results. The Berger 250 EHs just don't shoot well at all out of that gun (but shoot great out of a different gun).

 

[Birddog6424]

It's crazy how much good luck I've had with Hornady lately. I've recently switched from the 90gr SMK to the 80gr ELDM in my 223 Ackley and switched from the 230gr Berger Hybrid to the 225gr ELDM in my Norma. Both bullets are faster and more accurate in both of those rifles.

I gained a little BC in the 225gr over the Berger 230, and it's faster. I gave up a little BC in my Ackley, but the ELDM is way faster and easier to load develop. The speed improvement more than compensates for the lower BC.

Hornady is pretty good value these days.

 

[koshkin]

I am sorta beginning to standardize on Hornady for lead core bullets and Badlands Precision for copper ones.

I still have a bunch of other ones lying around, so they will get used, but I can't remember last time I bought any bullets that were not from those two.

ILya

 

[Blackedout12v]

Kinda just a +1 , but I have had zero issues with xtr signature rings on about 100 rds with a 338lm. And as long as I don't see any problems in the future, they will be my go to rings from here on out.

 

[Tjfarmer]

I have run 5 sets on 338LM, 300wm, and 6.5CM. No issues once set..About 600-800rds on each gun

 

[Shamablam]

I used these rings on a 10lb 6.5CM and torqued them to medium finger tight+ with the short end of the torx wrench that came with them and I had good results (sub MOA) over about 100 rounds.

I did use blue loctite on everything related to clamping the scope down.

I mounted my screw heads on the right.

I really liked the adjustability of the cant as my rifle has a 0-MOA rail and I setup for scope down -20 and it worked great. I also like that it elminates bending moment on the scope tube.

 

[EnXCess]

I have the 30mm and 34mm and love them. Thousands of rounds, always true and no marks on my tubes. With a new mount I love being able to set my turrets to where I want them to live AND THEN sight in almost entirely by changing/rotating the inserts, using the turrets only for the last bit of tweaking. I don't Loc-Tite them but I do check them every 500rounds or so. Takes a whopping 20 seconds, then I know none have come loose.

 

[my87csx481]

Sorry for the ancient thread revival.

Are the XTR Signature rings still considered a half-way decent solution?

 

[Cr1775]

I would guess its still a good solution to putting scope on rifle. Just got another.

 

[beetroot]

Sorry for the ancient thread revival.

Are the XTR Signature rings still considered a half-way decent solution?

Yes they are good to go.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I use them on my .22's to get more elevation with the scope bases I already have and maximize the distance I can dial out. On my Bergara B14R I can dial out to 500 yards and with my 10/22 I can dial directly to 400 I believe.

 

[Gohring65]

I try to run them on anything I shoot long range with. They allow me to get just about all of the elevation out of my scopes. My meopta 5-30 with the zero stop removed, 20 moa rail and I think I got 30 moa of inserts in the rings, I’m getting 29 mils of elevation. That does a couple things, it allows me to dial at any range and not use the reticle, it also puts me close to the center of the lenses when I’m dialed out to a mile giving me the best image the scope has to offer. Another plus is no ring marks, I sell scopes often and it’s always nice to state no ring marks on the sale add.

 

[my87csx481]

Anyone care to share their tightening technique?

I'm using this sequence 1,6,3,4,2,5, looking down at the top of the ring:
1 2 3
4 5 6

But every time I tighten screws 2 and 5, the adjacent screws loosen up. If I torque screws 2 and 5 to 20 in/lbs, the other 4 screws become loose. If I tighten srews 1,3,4,and 6 to 10 in/lbs, then 2 and 5 become loose....even after they were at 20. I don't see how 1,3,4, and 6 can be expected to snug up to the same torque spec as 2 and 5.

 

[Gohring65]

Anyone care to share their tightening technique?

I'm using this sequence 1,6,3,4,2,5, looking down at the top of the ring:
1 2 3
4 5 6

But every time I tighten screws 2 and 5, the adjacent screws loosen up. If I torque screws 2 and 5 to 20 in/lbs, the other 4 screws become loose. If I tighten srews 1,3,4,and 6 to 10 in/lbs, then 2 and 5 become loose....even after they were at 20. I don't see how 1,3,4, and 6 can be expected to snug up to the same torque spec as 2 and 5.

Keep going till they all are at 20 in lbs.
I think a lot of guys who have the sporting good store mount their scopes thst have trouble is because they use something like a wheeler fat wrench and not go back over the screws until they all are at the spec torque. They go over them once and send it. Every time you tighten a screw the one next to it will loosen. You have to keep going til they all reach spec.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I agree with Gohring, I tighten my Signature rings in this pattern.

First go is:
1 5 3
4 6 2

I tighten each one in that star-like pattern incrementally until they all hit 20 in/lbs. I never do one side first and then flip over to do the other side. Then to make sure they're all good, I go in reverse:

2 6 4
3 5 1

I've never had an issue with the rings using that technique.

 

[my87csx481]

Thank you both. The outer corners weren't getting tight, and the middle screws were getting very tight. They didn't seem like they were ever going to equalize. So I didn't feel comfortable continuing. I'll try again when time allows.

For clarity: I am tightening in the same sequence as Trigger Monkey....I just "organized" my numbers/sequence in a way that is more confusing than it is helpful.

 

[want2ride]

I have 4 sets, on a 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5 prc, 300 WSM and a 28 nosler and never had one ever come loose or slide. i do tighten like Gohring and Trigger monkey. I just got 2 more sets, they are my go to rings.