Rifle Scopes PSR-SS (Precision Sniper Rifle-Smart Scope)

[THEIS]

Hi,

Well this should most definitely be interesting to keep up to date on...

Sincerely,
Theis

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...18bd77b7dbffcedcbff08e5e6c7&tab=core&_cview=1

THIS IS A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) ONLY - This RFI is issued solely for information and planning purposes, as a means for the Government to conduct market research, identifying interested parties and their capability to support suitable requirements for Precision Sniper Rifle (PSR)-Smart Scope (SS) candidates. A follow-on Prototype Opportunity Notice (PON) under Section 815 OTA authority, pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 2371b will be published dependent on the potential sources response to this RFI. The PON will include production buy options.

The objective of this notice is to identify potential sources including non-traditional defense contractors with Commercial-off-the-Shelf (COTS)/Non-Developmental Items (NDI) or sources who have the ability to deliver a functional and ruggedized PSR-SS prototypes within 12 months with the following features: first focal plane direct view optic rifle scope with continuous zoom from 3-6x lowest magnification range to 23-40x highest magnification range, integrated atmospheric sensors, weapon orientation sensors, and a real-time ballistic aimpoint solution displayed inside the scope's field of view with potential advanced capabilities of interest to include target tracking, wireless data transfer capability, time-of-flight wind dots, down-range wind sensing capability, or other fire control enablers that can improve target acquisition, and Time of Engagement (ToE). The functional PSR-SS prototype shall sustain weapon shocks and shall be less than 4.0 lbs total system weight which includes all the built-in features mentioned above, scope mounts, and batteries, and shall be less than 16.5-inches in length. The PSR-SS shall have the capability to interface with a Mil-Std-1913 and/or STANAG 4694 mounting rails, and import US Army fielded laser range finder (LRF) information via wired or wireless data-port. Submitted responses shall include developmental cost, and cost breakdown estimates for 2,500 possible production buys, technical manuals and/or operating instructions, technical specifications, and participant's capability to develop PSR-SS. Interested vendors shall include in their submission their capability to design and develop a PSR-SS prototype.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

Sounds awesome, also sounds like it will cost 20k

 

[beetroot]

Sounds good on paper, but unless it can read the wind and compensate accordingly it's a waste of money.
With wind being the single biggest influence on a bullet other than gravity and the hardest to compensate, there is still the requirement for a highly trained shooter who needs to input information into the system. In which case they may as well do that whole lot and save 3lbs in weight.

 

[THEIS]

Sounds good on paper, but unless it can read the wind and compensate accordingly it's a waste of money.

Hi,
The .Mil Teams already have access to that equipment via portable Lidar systems.
Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hi,
The .Mil Teams already have access to that equipment via portable Lidar systems.
Sincerely,
Theis

L...O...L

Ain’t no standard grunt running around with Lidar.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Ain't no standard grunt running around with the Sniper rifle this scope source is being sought for either ?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[SLG]

I shot the NF version of this scope a few weeks ago. Pretty nice setup.

 

[Fig]

Everything is doable with the technology we use. It's just all linked together through the scope in a HUD, EXCEPT:

down-range wind sensing capability

I want to see it do THAT. Lidar ain't gona read wind down the range or at the target! That's the only one that's going to have to be some new technology.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hi,

Ain't no standard grunt running around with the Sniper rifle this scope source is being sought for either ?

Sincerely,
Theis

Actually, yea, they are.

“Smart scope” technology and lidar are on two very far ends of the cost spectrum.

 

[THEIS]

I want to see it do THAT. Lidar ain't gona read wind down the range or at the target! That's the only one that's going to have to be some new technology.

Hi,

But that is exactly what LIDAR does.
The continuous wave LIDAR systems such as the ZephIR can monitor and detect information such as temperature, atmospheric composition and wind up to a few hundred meters away; While pulsed LIDAR systems such as Windcube can monitor and detect the same information but up to tens of kilometers away.
They even account for effects of buildings, terrain, etc in the wind readings.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[LastShot300]

I shot the NF version of this scope a few weeks ago. Pretty nice setup.

Kind of Revic? or better?

 

[SEMO Shooter]

Sounds awesome, also sounds like it will cost 20k

It's not real money. It's tax dollars. Cost is irrelevant when it's tax dollars.

 

[lte82]

Hi,

But that is exactly what LIDAR does.
The continuous wave LIDAR systems such as the ZephIR can monitor and detect information such as temperature, atmospheric composition and wind up to a few hundred meters away; While pulsed LIDAR systems such as Windcube can monitor and detect the same information but up to tens of kilometers away.
They even account for effects of buildings, terrain, etc in the wind readings.

Sincerely,
Theis

Sounds like this Lidar system can call wind almost as good as Matt Brousseau.

 

[Mike Casselton]

It's not real money. It's tax dollars. Cost is irrelevant when it's tax dollars.

Are you referring to the $20,000 Remingtons?
I know the price includes depot maintenance, but damn. For that price uncle could have bought three or four of each rifles and skipped the maintenance.

 

[Bender]

Down range wind reading abilities?

I hope they sent this to Hogwarts, might have better luck....

 

[flyer]

They have been doing remote measurement of weather conditions for decades. Some of it DIY by hobbyists.

Not super complicated except when you want to miniaturize it.

Personally I think it's more appropriate for a spotting scope than a weapon scope.

If I was any good at programming I would take a shot at it, using the GPU in an Nvidia Shield to do the heavy lifting in a fairly self contained computer package.

 

[_Windrider_]

A

They have been doing remote measurement of weather conditions for decades. Some of it DIY by hobbyists.

Not super complicated except when you want to miniaturize it.

Personally I think it's more appropriate for a spotting scope than a weapon scope.

If I was any good at programming I would take a shot at it, using the GPU in an Nvidia Shield to do the heavy lifting in a fairly self contained computer package.

A Quattro would be better suited

 

[flyer]

I think you mean Quaddro and yes, it would work well but not really portable.

The method I would try would use monochrome sensors and color filters to compare the distortion at different wavelengths, pretty simple image stacking. A Shield might not be able to do it quite real time but should be able to periodically give you results with a short delay which should be good enough unless you are shooting in gusty conditions where even real time measurement might not be any good.

 

[Prebanpaul]

Such technology may appear in riflescopes fairly soon. The Israeli Government’s Soreq Nuclear Research Center has received a U.S. patent for a new laser-based technology that can gauge wind vectors as well as target distance, using a laser rangefinder coupled to a rifle-scope. The Israeli system is called LIDAR, an acronym for Laser Identification Detection And Ranging. This new technology could, potentially, be a major boon for long-range shooters, both military and civilian. Ironically LIDAR was first developed for environmental monitoring (not for use with weapons). A LIDAR system was used for 3-D mapping and modeling of wind-driven plumes from the Israel Electric Company’s Rabin power plant.
Credit The Firearm Blog for breaking this story on the new Israeli LIDAR technology for sniper scopes. The Firearm Blog also first published the LIDAR fire control system patent documentation linked below. There you’ll find the patent Abstract, which has a good summary of how LIDAR reads the wind.
The new Israeli LIDAR unit gauges wind speed by detecting fluctations in laser signals sent out from the integrated scope/LRF, reflected back from the target, and then received by photodiodes in the scope/LRF. Other scopes have used built-in LRFs to measure distance-to-target, but Israel’s patented LIDAR goes one step further, using the laser to gauge BOTH target distance AND wind vectors (i.e. velocity + direction). This information is entered automatically into software. The software then calculates a ballistic solution compensating for distance, wind angle, and wind velocity. If it really works, LIDAR represents a remarkable technological achievement. The Israelis claim LIDAR works for targets at distances of 500m or greater. Why won’t it work at closer ranges? Presumably the wind-induced laser fluctuations are too small to register at closer distances

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

ITL Optronics in Israel has had a unit called "Focus" for about a decade now that uses laser(s) to detect wind speed and direction. Looks like they have teamed up with SNRC for a unit that can be coupled to a rifle scope instead of the stand-alone unit currently being used.


Sincerely,
Theis

 

[LRShooter101]

DARPA, and other Gov/Mil agencies, have been dicking around with these concepts for ages.
https://gizmodo.com/what-it-feels-like-to-shoot-the-military-s-experimental-1700448634

https://taskandpurpose.com/army-rifle-scope-optics-never-miss/

https://www.military.com/kitup/2014/02/darpa-develops-mountable-shot.html

https://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2012/08/one-shot-xg.html

Millions or Billions of dollars pissed away, and still nothing that has been fielded to any significant degree.

So now that the Gov/Mil can't get it done, they are finally going to look to the commercial market for something.

Just like the NASA shutdown, we are now using commercial companies for space access.

It is amazing how $#!@ gets done properly if there is an open market competing for the buisness.

If someone like Applied Ballistics had the resources and money that have been pissed away for years on this, they probably would have had a working unit in service by now. It is pretty much all there already

*EDIT - the primary market that is driving LIDAR technology is the Wind Energy Buisness.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/55516.pdf

https://www.umass.edu/windenergy/research/topics/tools/hardware/lidar

https://www.windpowerengineering.co...-choice-measurement-tool-offshore-wind-sites/
You can't effectively install and run Wind Turbines if you can't accurately measure the wind.

Hopefully as that market pushes for smaller and more economical models, it will carry over to other markets.

 

[B4Maz]

I brought this up before in another forum. Torrey Pines Venom

"Torrey Pines Venom does everything. It CALCULATES WIND AT MULTIPLE POINTS DOWNRANGE using Velocity Extracted from scintillation via Optical Measurement. I can't find any more info on this thing. Does anyone know anything about this?

VENOM stands for Velocity Extracted from scintillation via Optical Measurement. A weapon-mounted wind measurement device contains all the functions of laser rangefinder, ballistic computer and other sensors, including inclinometer, thermometer, barometer, etc. VENOM connects to external devices such as Kestrel or PDAs. Range capability is 1800-2000m with accuracy of measurement better than +-0.5mph.

"

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

@B4Maz
I do not think anyone has even seen that unit in the wild......only on display at exhibitions.
I do know that TPL gave us reason after reason of why they could not demo that unit at KASOTC or IDEX even though we had entities ready to make immediate wire transfers upon successful demonstrations.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[flyer]

The DIY approach I mentioned is probably similar and it comes from the measurement of astronomical seeing as used for adaptive optics in telescopes.

It's used in smaller observatories that don't have laser systems, think meter class telescopes instead of 2+.

It is hard to miniaturize these systems too much which is why I think it's better to keep the bulky gear on a spotting scope, you don't really need the measurement to be coaxial to the weapon scope, just relatively close and aimed at the same spot.

Instead of trying to take technology and create a solution with it, this program is trying to define a solution and get technology to make it possible.

It's a good way to make it really expensive.