Rifle Scopes pst viper vs mark 4

[black_ump]

i know the viper isnt out yet. but from the review that was on here and with every thing said what would you put your money on

psg or a mk4 ? I have never used a mark for on a gun but have played with them in the gun shop so I am just asking mk4 in general

they are both in the ball park price range, and I am not sure which is the better investment.

also is mk4 glass german ?

 

[glock24]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

The Mark 4 is almost twice the price, doesn't have a zero-stop, and can't be had with illumination and a FFP reticle. The PST certainly looks better on paper.

The Mark 4 is all Asian, including the glass.

 

[dmg308]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Mark 4 is almost twice the price, doesn't have a zero-stop, and can't be had with illumination and a FFP reticle. The PST certainly looks better on paper.

The Mark 4 is all Asian, including the glass. </div></div>

Leupold hating is fine if it makes you feel good but atleast be close to factual. There are MK 4 models available with illumination. There are MK4s available with ffp.And MK4 scopes are mostly US made except for the glass.

All that said Leupold has ground to make up to get back in the game.Vortex seems to be doing the right things but they are still to young in this market to make any concrete statements.I personally would try out the Vortex when available the company has shown that it does whats necesary to correct any problems.

 

[glock24]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Leupold hating is fine if it makes you feel good but atleast be close to factual. There are MK 4 models available with illumination. There are MK4s available with ffp.And MK4 scopes are mostly US made except for the glass.
</div></div>

I thought my first post might have sounded confusing, so to clarify;

Leupold doesn't put FFP and illumination <span style="text-decoration: underline">together</span> on the <span style="text-decoration: underline">same scope</span>. The Vortex PST does.

Are Mark 4s labeled, "Made in USA"? I thought I read otherwise;

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1123792&page=1

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

My Mark4 has a zero-stop, but I removed the detent from the turret.

 

[glock24]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

Ah yes, the M3 knob is single-turn, correct? Unfortunately not the case with the M1, M2, M4, or M5 knobs.

Besides, the M5 knobs are the only logical choice anyway, especially if we are comparing Leupold to the Viper PSTs.

 

[RHutch]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

I had an M2 knob that had the stop ball in it. Was an extra I ordered from Leupold.

 

[black_ump]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

hmm i could have swore i seen mk4's in the 1200 dollar range that looked pretty good.

sorry for late reply i forgot i made this post

 

[Derek Myers]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

You can get NIB Leupold M4's for as low as $799 for a 4-14.

Leupold is 100% made in the USA......they have a plant in Beaverton Oregon with over 600 AMERICAN workers. They are well paid and many are 2nd and 3rd generation workers and 1/2 the employees there are 15 years or better........close to 100 employees are past the 25 year mark....not suits but factory workers. Leupold makes every single scope part in house on their own machines.........one person makes one part and that all that they do. At Leupold you get promoted up the rank of scopes.....there are no 3 year employees working in the Mark 4 clean room mostly 20 year folks in there. The ONLY imported scope part is the glass from Europe........the same supplier as S&B..........not saying its the same grade..........same supplier. Every scope says MADE IN THE USA. Now does Leupold have "made in China" stuff........yes bino's etc and frankly its a price thing.......to keep up with everyone else using import parts.

I am buying a 3.5 x 10x40 FFP TMR ret.1 turn M3 knob with flip up caps..........new in box $1025 shipped. Now will that scope work for everyone? No but I trust it. Keep in mind Leupold has a lifetime warranty........20 years from now your scope quits they repair or replace no questions ask. Pretty good chance also that Leupold will be around in 20 years to service that warranty...can't say that about all scope makers.

Leupold has MAP pricing.........so when you go to buy one email or call a guy like Scott at Liberty and see what a Leupold will run you. Also if you don't like the configuration Leupold has a custom shop that does great work.......anything you can imagine almost for pretty cheap.

Shoot whatever scope you want and opinions are free but as mentioned above at least attempt to get your facts straight prior to trashing one brand or another.

 

[Falar]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek Myers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get NIB Leupold M4's for as low as $799 for a 4-14.

Leupold is 100% made in the USA......they have a plant in Beaverton Oregon with over 600 AMERICAN workers. They are well paid and many are 2nd and 3rd generation workers and 1/2 the employees there are 15 years or better........close to 100 employees are past the 25 year mark....not suits but factory workers. Leupold makes every single scope part in house on their own machines.........one person makes one part and that all that they do. At Leupold you get promoted up the rank of scopes.....there are no 3 year employees working in the Mark 4 clean room mostly 20 year folks in there. The ONLY imported scope part is the glass from Europe........the same supplier as S&B..........not saying its the same grade..........same supplier. Every scope says MADE IN THE USA. Now does Leupold have "made in China" stuff........yes bino's etc and frankly its a price thing.......to keep up with everyone else using import parts.

I am buying a 3.5 x 10x40 FFP TMR ret.1 turn M3 knob with flip up caps..........new in box $1025 shipped. Now will that scope work for everyone? No but I trust it. Keep in mind Leupold has a lifetime warranty........20 years from now your scope quits they repair or replace no questions ask. Pretty good chance also that Leupold will be around in 20 years to service that warranty...can't say that about all scope makers.

Leupold has MAP pricing.........so when you go to buy one email or call a guy like Scott at Liberty and see what a Leupold will run you. Also if you don't like the configuration Leupold has a custom shop that does great work.......anything you can imagine almost for pretty cheap.

Shoot whatever scope you want and opinions are free but as mentioned above at least attempt to get your facts straight prior to trashing one brand or another. </div></div>

Do you work at Leupold or something?

 

[Metalhead0483]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek Myers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold is 100% made in the USA...</div></div>

Right...

 

[Derek Myers]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

Been on 4 factory tours over the last 20 years.....125,000 sq ft facility......tons and tons of machinary. I had a chance a couple years back to follow a MArk 4 being made..went to every machine that made every single part of the scope. Talked to every person running every machine and then all the parts went into the Mark 4 clean room and one person assmebled all of the parts I just saw made. The only thing they "pulled out of a box" was the glass.

I don't work for Leupold, used to shoot under their banner but not for 20 years.......I get no benefits from Leupold......no reason to lie. The folks working there don't have accents, its no immigrant sweat shop........send in an application see how many years it take you to get one. Have shot with and against people that work there.

If you have different first hand info let me know. Even second hand info..........did you brother work there and see hooded employees bringing in foreign scope parts from down at the waterfront?

 

[AUJohn]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

so NOTHING they use is made in Asia?

 

[beenjammin]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

Not to step on anyones toes, but someone pleaase explain something to me:

I got to ask now that i have seen it so much on the hide. What does asian glass have to do with anything? Does asian=poorly made or poorly polished or cut or what exactly?

My 1995 Toyota is asian made, but it certinly is well made. I know cars are not scopes, but I fail to understand the "asian" term thrown around so much.

The term asian is being made synonymous with cheap. Asian, US, german, if it works who cares where it is from.


BTW: im not asian or anything, just wondering.

 

[banshee sws]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

oh boy , here we go

i am wondering the same thing as beenjammin

wasn't too long ago , that NIGHTFORCE optics said made in Japan

and i believe that is where the PST vipers are made

this subject has been rode hard and put up wet

for whatever reasons, some folks have to BASH Leupold -

but as has already been stated, they do have a US production facility, where they make optics -

and while at a recent competition with over 44 different shooters, the main optic in use was guess who ?

LEUPOLD
nightforce next
followed by bushnell
and then several Schmidt Benders

and the only breakage i was aware of, was a Schmidt Bender
and it was on a rifle in the winning team !!

yes, they had a optic breakage and still won the match !

and will someone clue me in on 'THE TEST' that is being used
to quantify a brand of scope is JUNK ?

please list the procedure, i genuinely want to know

that would be a more productive thread

heck i will start it

 

[BCP]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so NOTHING they use is made in Asia? </div></div>

They use lots of stuff made in Asia (the glass for instance) for various products, as do other companies. In fact, I think even Nikon outsources their lens production. Some nerds threw a collective shit fit on the internet when they found out their Mark 4 binoculars weren't made in America.

I don't really see how any of this matters, and I only bring it up to tease the leupold fanboys.

 

[AJBello]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banshee sws</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....
wasn't too long ago , that NIGHTFORCE optics said made in Japan

and i believe that is where the PST vipers are made
....
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex (on OpticsTalk)</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
These will be made in the Philippines with the glass coming from Japan. This is a very high tech factory that is capable of making very high quality scopes.
</div></div>

Not that it really matters all that much, but just to keep the record straight...

 

[Busby.]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

The mark4 I bought six months ago did not say "made in USA" anywhere on it.

 

[pharm762]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

Go Leupold. They are bright and worth every penny. The turrets are positive and precise and they can take a beating ( I know cuz I was clumsy enough to drop my rifle and it fell on the scope). I actually like Nightforce and use them now because of the MOA/MOA setup.

 

[Derek Myers]

Re: pst viper vs mark 4

Leupold has products that are made in China-but not the scopes.
ALL scopes are made in Beaverton Oregon at the Leupold factory....its 125,000 square feet. Go on a factory tour at a scope maker that assembles their parts on site but are made elsewhere.........how much machinery is there......how big is the place?? Small.

Each Leupold scope line has all the parts delivered from the factory floor where they are made to a Clean Room. Dustfree etc etc......each scope line has its own clean room. The glass is European.......Leupold imports its glass.

Japan makes some good glass.....Nightforce, Super Sniper, VOrtex...I beleive they all use Japan glass. But at least some of those scopes are also assembled overseas.

In order to stay competetive pricewise in the Bino business Leupold has had to go the import route.........I hate it...but yeah Made in CHina. People don't want to pay $800-$1200 for a set of Bino's made in the USA. I hate to admit it but as big a fan of Leupold scopes I am I don't use their bino's. And in my former career in the field I never used bino's much and the bino's I did carry never had more mag 10x than the scope did. And bino's are not made to take a beating like a scope. I actually own a pair of $39 Barska bino's......10-30X.....glass is average and they are big but I don't care if I lose them or break them and with 30x its almost like a spotting scope. Plus my daughter has used them for 3 years(she's 8 now) and I never worried about her breaking them. WOuld I like a pair of $1000 Steiner's......yes but always put the money ito guns, scopes, ammo etc.

I think for the common man..not shooter nuts like us buying from Leupold-an American company and buying their Made in China bino's still beats buying a total Chinese product. Nike and Addidas are both within about 15 minutes of Leupold and Nike and Addidas don't have a factory..........all their stuff is made overseas. Nike has a "campus" and Addidas has a "Corporate Headquarters"...........but no manufacturing is done their except for making test products.

Derek