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Night Vision PVS-30 on it's way, a few questions regarding illumination items (MAWL or maybe something else???)

GUNNER75

GUNNER75

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Jun 29, 2005
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    SW KS
    Been running a REAP IR and very pleased with it. Couldn't get the PVS-30 out of my head. Well I got a fair deal on it as it comes with a ELIR-3. Hasn't arrived yet but I was gathering a few odds and ends to accommodate a couple rifles. Months ago I posted up about using the REAP for observation and the PVS 30 for the dirty work.

    Ordered up a Spuhr Raptor Adapter for IR/Laser use, Badger SLICK (for spotter), and thought I ordered a MAWL. Turns out I didn't actually get the MAWL ordered. Long story, I'm better educated now and won't order on the cuff without becoming more educated. Was just trying to get everything in by the weekend.

    MAWL....$2500ish with the updated tool less cap. Seems to be pretty kick ass, price sucks, but if it brings out the best of the PVS 30 then so be it. Only problem now is getting on on short order and hoping to find a touch better price......... Yeah I know good luck.......

    Got to thinking about the range I will be running the most at. Out to 600ish. Steel further. The Luna report seems fine out to here but what about the occasional further distance?

    Big question is if I don't wanna drop the coin on a MAWL or want to wait for it, what is the next best unit????

    Obviously I'm a newbie at this to some extent so fire away.........I need lined out.
     
    I can only speak from a hunting application inside 400. After it gets dark and the moon is not giving you much help. The ELIR-3 & the 30 has served me well. Precision shooting in the dark is what blows my skirt up. I get more satisfaction out of harvesting a 200 + lb hog in total darkness than punching holes in paper or banging steel at 800. You will see the ELIR-3 with a little tweaking is extremely effective. Give it a chance, learn the adjustments and I think you will find your decision making was spot on.
    Make America Great Again
     
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    you can pick up full power laser units if you know where to buy. peq-2a, atilla, peq-15 are all very good and capable laser illuminators beyond your ability to shoot with a 30. the luna is excellent for what it is.

    if youre considering a led illum i would take a look at the steiner spir. its probably the best led illum available and provides and ultra clean beam/image. lasers typically arent as clean and artifact free as led. really depends on your needs.
     
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    Thanks for the info fellas. I'll see what I think of the ELIR-3 first and move on from there. Naturally I'm interested in full power, but that SPIR looks like the next step if I don't care for the ELIR-3.
     
    This is the setup we use in classes.

    20181005_233953.jpg


    The imaging is exceptional with the MAWL.
    If I can setup anywhere close to the shooter's 6, I can watch the rounds go in due to the IR Illum hitting the ass of the bullets. Usually can call a correction on a miss which is usually tough at night.

    I think I had posted some images taken through this setup in other threads.

    ./
     
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    An alternative for a night spotter that not everyone might have considered ...

    30955549347_b443aceef9_h.jpg

    44078236160_7a76d6e020_h.jpg


    I can see the bullet/trace as well ... and though since my spotter has a barrel hanging under it, I don't setup exactly on the 6 ... I set up more on the 4:30 ... but I'm on a tripod and my buddy is prone ... but yes, I can see the bullets arcing in and the hits and the misses ... at night ... easier than in the day ...

    And with 18x spotting out to 900yds is not a problem. Actually I used my 2.5x 35mm for two years in this role, until I finally upgraded it to a 4.5x just to make it a better spotter. And it has the radius up there ... and doesn't need the illuminator ...

    And I can see plenty of detail on 18x ... like a cows ear flopping around while she is working on a bale at 500yds ... at night .. in the rain ...
    Or the gap between the upper and lower jaws of a yote chewing on something at 300yds ...

    ==
     
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    Terry Cross said:
    This is the setup we use in classes.

    View attachment 7014760

    The imaging is exceptional with the MAWL.
    If I can setup anywhere close to the shooter's 6, I can watch the rounds go in due to the IR Illum hitting the ass of the bullets. Usually can call a correction on a miss which is usually tough at night.

    I think I had posted some images taken through this setup in other threads.

    ./
    Click to expand...

    I would absolutely love to see some of those pics if you still have them. Or a link?
     
    I ran a both the MAWL DA and C1 in a LE NVG course at San Berdoo Sheriff's Dept range last year.

    The illuminator was effective out to several hundred yards at least. I sold my DBAL I2 immediately after to fund the MAWL for myself.
     
    I use old PEQ's and they do me fine. High does have it's uses, like lighting up the AO for a PVS30 1km away.

    They turn up from time to time but unless you know exactly what you're looking for and buying, you could end up paying more, getting a fake or broken unit or a stolen one or even a trifecta of all three.
     
    The Luna works great for me.

    I haven't seen or used a mawl but have used a dbal-d2 and some other powerful led illuminators. The illumination is always much cleaner and it's easier to see things and pick out details. That said even focused down tight there's always just a little spill with LEDs even when you can aim them in relation to your scope. It becomes a problem if you're shooting low to the ground, over tall grass, etc at long distances. Spill in the foreground washes out what you're actually trying to see where with a Luna, peq, etc you can aim and focus the illumination exactly where you need it. Something to think about.
     
    newguy2k3v2 said:
    The Luna works great for me.

    I haven't seen or used a mawl but have used a dbal-d2 and some other powerful led illuminators. The illumination is always much cleaner and it's easier to see things and pick out details. That said even focused down tight there's always just a little spill with LEDs even when you can aim them in relation to your scope. It becomes a problem if you're shooting low to the ground, over tall grass, etc at long distances. Spill in the foreground washes out what you're actually trying to see where with a Luna, peq, etc you can aim and focus the illumination exactly where you need it. Something to think about.
    Click to expand...
    Personally hate my Luna ELIR 3. Horrible output. Remove IR filter to get good outout and it has strong front side Vis signature and beam is a bunch of bright rings with dark spaces in between. Cannot reccomend it.
     
    First pic is my spotter set up. So far Luna sucks, but zero mods done to it. Need to better configure it all, but for testing it works.
    Second pic is my KMW (Terry Cross masterpiece) set up with S&B.
    Third is Low power (cell phone by hand) S&B across neighborhood at buddies home.
    Fourth pic is (cell phone by hand as well) at 1350ish through spotter.
    I know vehicles, but I could tell you the brand of the truck through the spotter, and the windows on the home were extremely visible with the eye. Pics do zero justice with cell phone.
    Also had my REAP IR, but didn't take snaps of it.

    I'd really say I got a heck of a good Refurb on the 30.
    It's really impressive.

    Still on the fence about the IR. I've got a COLR with Torch to compare to, the Luna as it simply does nothing compared to the Armasight IR.

    Still thinking the MAWL would be my best choice mounted on the Spuhr Raptor mount, but $2600 sucks. May try and borrow a Stiener SPIR before dropping coin.

    Lots of light in the "hood" can't wait to get to my range and see targets and such at distance. Appreciate all the input.
     
    They are nice, aren't they? A lot clearer than you'd think for a military used item. Yours looks like mine, basically flawless. Not the best FOM number, on mine anyway, but a lot of folks are saying it doesn't seem to matter much and really not at all if you have a good illuminator, which you'll need for the longer targets anyway.
     
    You have to take the filter out of the ELIR. Otherwise it has the power of a kids Call of Duty Night Vision Goggle set
     
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    I second that, I just picked up my second ELIR and was curious of how much difference there was. So I took them both outside with a pvs14, and there is a SUBSTANTIAL difference.
     
    I was watching the PVS-30 refurb thread, but now can't find it. Where were these being purchased? Saw they were about $4,500 or so.

    Also in same boat as OP on illum. I see the Luna ELIR is about $300 and the Peq-15's are around $1,300 or so. The extra $1k worth it over a ELIR with filter removed for occasional night hunting? Thanks
     
    earthquake said:
    I was watching the PVS-30 refurb thread, but now can't find it. Where were these being purchased? Saw they were about $4,500 or so.

    Also in same boat as OP on illum. I see the Luna ELIR is about $300 and the Peq-15's are around $1,300 or so. The extra $1k worth it over a ELIR with filter removed for occasional night hunting? Thanks
    Click to expand...

    The Luna is a Superior illuminator to what's in a peq. More power, cleaner beam from what I've seen and infinitely variable power. It's definitely not as rugged as a peq though.
     
    newguy2k3v2 said:
    The Luna is a Superior illuminator to what's in a peq. More power, cleaner beam from what I've seen and infinitely variable power. It's definitely not as rugged as a peq though.
    Click to expand...

    That's a pretty bold statement. So the .5mW ELIR3 is superior to the 45mW illuminator in the PEQ15 with more power? PEQ15 and PEQ2 use .7mW on low and 45mW on high with respect to IR output, and both are adj. from spot to flood. They both throw a nice circle a long ways out.

    The MAWLC may be an exception with the civilian rated devices, I haven't used one, but I do know something about how they qualify their laser so it may be an apples to oranges comparison with that one. If BE Meyers says it has X limit, I'd probably go with that.
     
    Strykervet said:
    That's a pretty bold statement. So the .5mW ELIR3 is superior to the 45mW illuminator in the PEQ15 with more power? PEQ15 and PEQ2 use .7mW on low and 45mW on high with respect to IR output, and both are adj. from spot to flood. They both throw a nice circle a long ways out.

    The MAWLC may be an exception with the civilian rated devices, I haven't used one, but I do know something about how they qualify their laser so it may be an apples to oranges comparison with that one. If BE Meyers says it has X limit, I'd probably go with that.
    Click to expand...

    Yes, it is. I have and use both. The diode in the Luna is 90mw iirc and it will focus down. To a spot just like a peq if you want it to. The peq15 illuminator is 30mw.
     
    newguy2k3v2 said:
    Yes, it is. I have and use both. The diode in the Luna is 90mw iirc and it will focus down. To a spot just like a peq if you want it to. The peq15 illuminator is 30mw.
    Click to expand...
    You must be talking about the ATPIAL-C not a standard power PEQ. If not, you might want to try removing that tiny blue screw.:p
     
    I've had a few outings with the PVS30, Luna (with upgrades), and my MAWL C1 as of this weekend. PVS30 on the spotter and rifle. I'm pretty impressed with it. Learning a lot about conditions. The upgraded Luna works great. I don't have a lot of time with the MAWL, but what little I have it is pretty darn nice. Between work and the weather (snow and wind) I have yet to get everything dialed in and on target. Fingers crossed I get a good evening this weekend to get out to some wide open country with various contour and some steel set up.
     
    Terry Cross said:
    This is the setup we use in classes.

    View attachment 7014760

    The imaging is exceptional with the MAWL.
    If I can setup anywhere close to the shooter's 6, I can watch the rounds go in due to the IR Illum hitting the ass of the bullets. Usually can call a correction on a miss which is usually tough at night.

    I think I had posted some images taken through this setup in other threads.

    ./
    Click to expand...

    You make me sick. That's just rubbing it in, come on! Seriously, it beats the shit out of my DIY'er but I'm still proud to have it and if it weren't for awesome 'Hide members I wouldn't have this:

    7037790


    Though that ain't no puny Radius! (But I really would like to have a Radius...) That bad boy tags targets at 6 miles out.

    Anyway, the PEQ2 on there is better than any civilian laser when it comes to IR illum., however, the MAWL-C is the best civilian unit by faaaar (and a unit with an active warrany) that you can get. Plus BE Meyers, they make excellent shit. Now PEQ's are potted inside with epoxy resin and likely are fine, it'd still be nice if they weren't disposable if they quit working.

    I know a guy here with an Atilla 200 for sale, $2500 IIRC, with case and all the shit. Usually they go for less than this WHEN they show up, but never seen one like this before, it's LNIB grade. Fully adjustable from 0-200mW. Yes, 200. It's as powerful as an IZLID on high and both laser and illum are adjustable independently. Where it shines isn't the full blast power, it's the fact you can set it for 15mW. Or 17. Or whatever. Independently too, which is nice. PEQ2 and 15 are fixed at .7 low and 50 high (Edit: sticker's show 50 and 45 respectively, however, laser and illum outputs are different). Which is okay with the illuminator at long range, the light saber laser beam isn't that useful though.

    If you can afford the MAWL-C, you can afford this Atilla. Or hell, I'll set you up with a nice PEQ with all the shit and I"ll get the Atilla. I've wanted one for over fifteen years now. They just don't show up often. An older, more rare set that was too powerful to issue to Joe private. Easily the most flexible set on planet Earth.

    Typically the .7mW laser gets the job done, but with a clip on you really need more power behind the illuminator than .7mW (and the MAWL-C gets away with this using crafty math and exploiting the existing law, which costs money and I understand is where part of the price comes from, plus they have no real competition with that unit). I think they'd sell a lot more if they dropped the price down to $1999 at least.

    Good luck either way you go! Enjoy you're PVS 30, they're just awesome.
     
    Last edited:
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    newguy2k3v2 said:
    Yes, it is. I have and use both. The diode in the Luna is 90mw iirc and it will focus down. To a spot just like a peq if you want it to. The peq15 illuminator is 30mw.
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

    Well then that is a bold statement! I didn't know that, shit maybe I stand corrected. I'm guessing it has a noticeable red glow though, yeah? I see where you're getting the PEQ15 power from but it has 45mW on the sticker. The combined power would be 55mW so I don't know where that number comes from exactly. Then the PEQ2 has 50 on the illum, 30 output and 25mW on the laser. The stickers don't show this, they just show 50mW. Now I probably knew these details ten years ago, but I haven't looked at the book or anything other than the sticker in years. I can tell you there is virtually no difference between the PEQ2 and PEQ15 side by side, they look the same on low and high.

    Hell, if the Luna will throw light 1km or thereabouts and no discernible red glow I guess that's all you really need. I still have a hard time seeing how it competes with collimated light though, because I have Surefire IR lights with high outputs and they're not focusable but don't put out anywhere close to the range a PEQ can do on low. I guess it's just one of those thing you have to see. Not that i'm doubting you, hell, if you've seen 'em side by side that's more than I can say.

    The Atilla 200 is still pretty much in a league of it's own with no real competitors I can think of. It wouldn't cost much for them to put fully adjustable outputs in all these units. What would be better is programmable units with a USB cable with the usual high and low switches to make use in the field simple but outputs programmable across the range. It wouldn't be difficult to do, the technology is already here.
     
    Last edited:
    Strykervet said:
    Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

    Well then that is a bold statement! I didn't know that, shit maybe I stand corrected. I'm guessing it has a noticeable red glow though, yeah? I see where you're getting the PEQ15 power from but it has 45mW on the sticker. The combined power would be 55mW so I don't know where that number comes from exactly. Then the PEQ2 has 50 on the illum, 30 output and 25mW on the laser. The stickers don't show this, they just show 50mW. Now I probably knew these details ten years ago, but I haven't looked at the book or anything other than the sticker in years. I can tell you there is virtually no difference between the PEQ2 and PEQ15 side by side, they look the same on low and high.

    Hell, if the Luna will throw light 1km or thereabouts and no discernible red glow I guess that's all you really need. I still have a hard time seeing how it competes with collimated light though, because I have Surefire IR lights with high outputs and they're not focusable but don't put out anywhere close to the range a PEQ can do on low. I guess it's just one of those thing you have to see. Not that i'm doubting you, hell, if you've seen 'em side by side that's more than I can say.

    The Atilla 200 is still pretty much in a league of it's own with no real competitors I can think of. It wouldn't cost much for them to put fully adjustable outputs in all these units. What would be better is programmable units with a USB cable with the usual high and low switches to make use in the field simple but outputs programmable across the range. It wouldn't be difficult to do, the technology is already here.
    Click to expand...

    Peq15 power right from l3. Atpial

    The Luna does have a red glow. It's not an issue for my uses. For punching a tight beam way out it works great and at least from the units I've used the Luna has much cleaner illumination than the peq-15 or la5. I'd like to see an atilla.
     
    Zemperfi1971 said:
    MAWLS are great but expensive....... PEQ15's full power and better yet LA5 is way to go period. Will not go into explanations...but YES....
    Click to expand...

    To save everyone some time, an LA 5 looks almost identical to a PEQ 15 but has a 25mw IR pointer, 20mw visible pointer, and 80mw IR illuminator. In a lot of situations, it is the way to go. I still prefer an ATILLA 200 though since I don’t need the visible laser.
     
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