PWS MK216 vs 218 : Setting my expectations

[Amatsukaze_DD]

So after a long 10 hour sit-down-and-think session, I've decided on the Mk216 or 218 for my first gasser. It was a close tossup between that or buying stripped Mars receivers and a proof barrel conversion, but decided that I could take the price difference and spend it on some gucci glass and grow as a shooter first, since I probably can't even push the accuracy of the PWS system, much less a proof barrel.

That being said, I see in a couple of older threads that people are shooting sub-moa groups with their 218's. Does the 216 enjoy the same or similar accuracy? And will anyone with a 218/216 chime in about their experiences with the platform? The major reasons I'm considering a 216 over a 218 are barrel life, ammo availability even though I do plan to reload for this rifle eventually, and length/weight. My only .30 cal can is a big long chonker, I think it's 7 inches long. Quiet but stupid heavy. With my use case being DMR matches + growing as a precision shooter in general, the gun will occasionally be shot off shoulder and not exclusively off bags/bipod/barricades, so weight and length is a factor.

Also since PWS is kinda slow to answer my emails, does anyone know who makes PWS's barrels/where they get their blanks from? Just curious.

 

[SuperBoot]

My advice is buy an SP10M from Seekins and call it a day. They're 2600 bucks at Scheels, and they will beat a PWS in accuracy, non-proprietary parts, and aftermarket.

I had a Mk216 Mod 1, and it was a 1" gun on a good day with Gold Medal Match. Not awful, but couple this with being locked into their barrels (and their barrel specs), and having to send the gun back to them for rebarrels/new bolts turned me off pretty quick.

Can confirm they're also sale-proof should the need arise to dump it. Take a look at how long some of them have sat in the PX to affirm that.
I like PWS for kick around gas guns and built an SBR around one of their short 5.56 uppers, but they are not precision rifles.
It's not worth the ass pain of trying to shoehorn one into that role.

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

My advice is buy an SP10M from Seekins and call it a day. They're 2600 bucks at Scheels, and they will beat a PWS in accuracy, non-proprietary parts, and aftermarket.

I had a Mk216 Mod 1, and it was a 1" gun on a good day with Gold Medal Match. Not awful, but couple this with being locked into their barrels (and their barrel specs), and having to send the gun back to them for rebarrels/new bolts turned me off pretty quick.

Can confirm they're also sale-proof should the need arise to dump it. Take a look at how long some of them have sat in the PX to affirm that.
I like PWS for kick around gas guns and built an SBR around one of their short 5.56 uppers, but they are not precision rifles.
It's not worth the ass pain of trying to shoehorn one into that role.

I see, a GAP10/SP10 were also on the radar, didn't realize they were that cheap at other places. 800 bucks more for an sp10 is really appealing, since I can really only buy one expensive toy a year, and this is it. It would be about a year worth of shooting and getting better before looking at getting a really nice precision bolt gun, so the rifle being as accurate as possible for me to grow in to is important.

appreciate the input

 

[SuperBoot]

I see, a GAP10/SP10 were also on the radar, didn't realize they were that cheap at other places. 800 bucks more for an sp10 is really appealing, since I can really only buy one expensive toy a year, and this is it. It would be about a year worth of shooting and getting better before looking at getting a really nice precision bolt gun, so the rifle being as accurate as possible for me to grow in to is important.

appreciate the input

If those are already on your radar, I'd 100% go that route. If you aren't opposed to buying used, there's GAP10/SP10's floating on the PX pretty often in the 2k-2500 dollar range that aren't beat to shit and usually have some aftermarket goodies, mags, etc.
In the AR10 world I don't think you can beat an SP10 for 2 grand.

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

If those are already on your radar, I'd 100% go that route. If you aren't opposed to buying used, there's GAP10/SP10's floating on the PX pretty often in the 2k-2500 dollar range that aren't beat to shit and usually have some aftermarket goodies, mags, etc.
In the AR10 world I don't think you can beat an SP10 for 2 grand.

when you say floating around in the PX, do you mean the BST here on SH? I am not opposed to used, as long as they aren't abused. A quick google for barrel life on the sp/gap10 says you can expect about 4k rounds down the pipe, which is pretty good for a 6.5.

 

[SuperBoot]

when you say floating around in the PX, do you mean the BST here on SH? I am not opposed to used, as long as they aren't abused. A quick google for barrel life on the sp/gap10 says you can expect about 4k rounds down the pipe, which is pretty good for a 6.5.

Yeah exactly. Case in point, there’s a built one on there now with a Craddock-chambered 400BB .308 barrel on it for $3k. That’s a 12-15 thousand round barrel that you will not outgrow accuracy-wise.

4k sounds a little inflated for a 6.5 creed, but even if you get 2500 out of it that’s still probably 5-6 grand worth of ammo.

 

[XP1K]

My mk216 has been a good shooter, consistent .75 moa. Pushed it to 800 with hornady black 168amax relatively easy. My issues with the gun have come in the form of trying to to get it to run suppressed with an omega.

Gun is terribly over gassed and the first time I spoke to pws about it I got an unexpected response. "That's just how our guns are"

So I shot it a couple years and it finally developed some issues that required sending it in.

Totally different response from them this time. Bent over backwards to get the gun fixed but it's still over gassed with the can. Chunking brass 1:30-2:00

Tried every buffer combination known to man and settled on a custom buffer I built, an A5 extension from LMT and a Tubbs spring. Finally got it slowed down to 2:30 but accuracy isn't quite what it was. Shoots about moa now maybe a bit under.

That said I'd go towards the seekins if I was doing it today. In fact, this thread has got me looking around again. I've had three large frames so far to include sig, pof and pws. The pws has been my favorite but I want something that's better suppressed.

I believe pws has since remedied the over gas issue with a longer gas system judging by some videos I've seen but I've yet have one in my hands.

I know for a fact the lengthened gas systems on the mk1 rifles. I own two of them. My 116 is carbine length and my newer 114 is mid length. They both run a can like sewing machines. I bought my mk1 rifles first so I wanted to try an mk2. Didn't pan out like I'd hoped.

My next one will be a 16" rifle gas 308. Does seekins still offer a carbine setup in a large frame ? All I see is the fixed stock longer barreled guns now.

May just have to build one.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Case in point, there’s a built one on there now with a Craddock-chambered 400BB .308 barrel on it for $3k. That’s a 12-15 thousand round barrel that you will not outgrow accuracy-wise.

An critical variable to reconcile when getting off one's wallet, the down range ammo $$ is so often not considered, unless one never really is going to shoot it a heck of a lot. Sure, ammo is instantaneously extinguished $$ , however so much more $$ than any barrel investment.

 

[BCP]

So after a long 10 hour sit-down-and-think session, I've decided on the Mk216 or 218 for my first gasser. It was a close tossup between that or buying stripped Mars receivers and a proof barrel conversion, but decided that I could take the price difference and spend it on some gucci glass and grow as a shooter first, since I probably can't even push the accuracy of the PWS system, much less a proof barrel.

That being said, I see in a couple of older threads that people are shooting sub-moa groups with their 218's. Does the 216 enjoy the same or similar accuracy? And will anyone with a 218/216 chime in about their experiences with the platform? The major reasons I'm considering a 216 over a 218 are barrel life, ammo availability even though I do plan to reload for this rifle eventually, and length/weight. My only .30 cal can is a big long chonker, I think it's 7 inches long. Quiet but stupid heavy. With my use case being DMR matches + growing as a precision shooter in general, the gun will occasionally be shot off shoulder and not exclusively off bags/bipod/barricades, so weight and length is a factor.

Also since PWS is kinda slow to answer my emails, does anyone know who makes PWS's barrels/where they get their blanks from? Just curious.

223 AR would be better for "DMR" matches imho but if it has to be a 308:

My mk214 was a good shooter. Fairly light for 308 AR and the adjustable gas piston is nice. They buy barrel blanks and profile in house + nitride finish. Groups were 1-2MOA typically.

The SP10 is probably 3-4lbs heavier but all of the range reports I have seen are very accurate.

There are people on here using Seekins SP10 for match shooting I think most are 6mm/6.5mm calibers not 308 though.

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

223 AR would be better for "DMR" matches imho but if it has to be a 308:

My mk214 was a good shooter. Fairly light for 308 AR and the adjustable gas piston is nice. They buy barrel blanks and profile in house + nitride finish. Groups were 1-2MOA typically.

The SP10 is probably 3-4lbs heavier but all of the range reports I have seen are very accurate.

There are people on here using Seekins SP10 for match shooting I think most are 6mm/6.5mm calibers not 308 though.

I have a heavy barreled 16" SPR with a larue barrel in it. Shoots great with 77gr. Wanting a large frame AR in .30 cal because the range owner is a chad and wants to run the DMR matches all the way out to our 700y, with plans to expand the range to 1000y and run matches like that. I struggle with calling shots past 4-500 with the 556.

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

Update: prowled some sales forums and have maybe scored an sp10, older model, for 1800. Meeting with the guy on Saturday. Hopefully it's legit. If so I am essentially committing highway robbery here

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

final update: It was real, I own an sp10 now. The guy even threw in 6 mags and one's a metal SR25 mag. Paid 1800 cash. I feel like I need to go bathe in holy water because that is a filthy price for what I just got.

 

[SuperBoot]

final update: It was real, I own an sp10 now. The guy even threw in 6 mags and one's a metal SR25 mag. Paid 1800 cash. I feel like I need to go bathe in holy water because that is a filthy price for what I just got.

Badass dude, congratulations. Look forward to hearing if it’s a shooter.

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

Badass dude, congratulations. Look forward to hearing if it’s a shooter.

I eagerly await shooting it and finding out that I am nowhere near capable of pulling the accuracy it can. But improvement is what is fun!

 

[nikerret]

final update: It was real, I own an sp10 now. The guy even threw in 6 mags and one's a metal SR25 mag. Paid 1800 cash. I feel like I need to go bathe in holy water because that is a filthy price for what I just got.

Sounds like a Hell of a deal. Post pics, let’s see it.

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

Sounds like a Hell of a deal. Post pics, let’s see it.

Only have the one off the tacswap listing for now, but

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

 

[XP1K]

final update: It was real, I own an sp10 now. The guy even threw in 6 mags and one's a metal SR25 mag. Paid 1800 cash. I feel like I need to go bathe in holy water because that is a filthy price for what I just got.

Have you shot it yet ? The guy you got it from might be the one that needs the holy water.

Just kidding. Sounds like you did alright. I've been pondering the future of my pws lately myself.

 

[Amatsukaze_DD]

Have you shot it yet ? The guy you got it from might be the one that needs the holy water.

Just kidding. Sounds like you did alright. I've been pondering the future of my pws lately myself.

I haven't, I have a buddy loading up some loads for it either next week or the week after. I don't even have a proper scope for this thing yet, I wasn't expecting to come into one so quickly and I'm still debating on what scope to even put on it. Something like an ATACR 5-25, gen3 razor, mk5/6 or something like that.

 

[molar]

My mk216 has been a good shooter, consistent .75 moa. Pushed it to 800 with hornady black 168amax relatively easy. My issues with the gun have come in the form of trying to to get it to run suppressed with an omega.

Gun is terribly over gassed and the first time I spoke to pws about it I got an unexpected response. "That's just how our guns are"

So I shot it a couple years and it finally developed some issues that required sending it in.

Totally different response from them this time. Bent over backwards to get the gun fixed but it's still over gassed with the can. Chunking brass 1:30-2:00

Tried every buffer combination known to man and settled on a custom buffer I built, an A5 extension from LMT and a Tubbs spring. Finally got it slowed down to 2:30 but accuracy isn't quite what it was. Shoots about moa now maybe a bit under.

That said I'd go towards the seekins if I was doing it today. In fact, this thread has got me looking around again. I've had three large frames so far to include sig, pof and pws. The pws has been my favorite but I want something that's better suppressed.

I believe pws has since remedied the over gas issue with a longer gas system judging by some videos I've seen but I've yet have one in my hands.

I know for a fact the lengthened gas systems on the mk1 rifles. I own two of them. My 116 is carbine length and my newer 114 is mid length. They both run a can like sewing machines. I bought my mk1 rifles first so I wanted to try an mk2. Didn't pan out like I'd hoped.

My next one will be a 16" rifle gas 308. Does seekins still offer a carbine setup in a large frame ? All I see is the fixed stock longer barreled guns now.

May just have to build one.

I couldn't get my MK216 to run reliably with an omega 300 either, even with a slash's heavy buffer. Finally bought an OSS HX 7.62 Ti can for it and now it throws brass about 3:30 with the heavy buffer in gas setting 2.

 

[XP1K]

I couldn't get my MK216 to run reliably with an omega 300 either, even with a slash's heavy buffer. Finally bought an OSS HX 7.62 Ti can for it and now it throws brass about 3:30 with the heavy buffer in gas setting 2.

I think mine is about to go on the chopping block. I may abandon the large frame game altogether.

 

[Jsp556]

final update: It was real, I own an sp10 now. The guy even threw in 6 mags and one's a metal SR25 mag. Paid 1800 cash. I feel like I need to go bathe in holy water because that is a filthy price for what I just got.

Nice…

 

[CaptArab]

I couldn't get my MK216 to run reliably with an omega 300 either, even with a slash's heavy buffer. Finally bought an OSS HX 7.62 Ti can for it and now it throws brass about 3:30 with the heavy buffer in gas setting 2.

That can is the truth for a large frame. Wish I would've bought one before wasting tons of time and money on buffers, agb, different gas systems, etc

 

[molar]

I think mine is about to go on the chopping block. I may abandon the large frame game altogether.

I would have done the same with mine had it not consistently printed 1/2 MOA groups with 168 gr Hornady's and 155 AMAX's. I was determined to get it running right.

 

[XP1K]

I would have done the same with mine had it not consistently printed 1/2 MOA groups with 168 gr Hornady's and 155 AMAX's. I was determined to get it running right.

That's the kicker. This is the best shooting large frame out of three I've had now. Sig, POS, I mean, POF and now this PWS. It'll shoot 3/4 moa relatively easy with gold medal 168. It just trashes brass. It likes 168 hornady black also.

Verdict is still out on it. I'm about to pull the scope and put it on my mk116 and start playing with 77 smk's so it'll sit in the safe for now. I keep threatening to get the ball rolling on another can also. Looking at the omega 36m. Maybe that'll help it.

 

[molar]

That's the kicker. This is the best shooting large frame out of three I've had now. Sig, POS, I mean, POF and now this PWS. It'll shoot 3/4 moa relatively easy with gold medal 168. It just trashes brass. It likes 168 hornady black also.

Verdict is still out on it. I'm about to pull the scope and put it on my mk116 and start playing with 77 smk's so it'll sit in the safe for now. I keep threatening to get the ball rolling on another can also. Looking at the omega 36m. Maybe that'll help it.

Skip the 36m unless you have a 338 Lapua to suppress. I have one and it has just as much back pressure as the omega 300. I run the 36 m on a galil Ace 308 with kns gas piston. It has enough back pressure to reliably cycle the gun with the gas piston backed all the way out. I’ve tried it on a JP 6.5 Creedmoor and it trashes brash even with a heavy buffer and slr gas block adjusted so brass is ejected 4-4:30

 

[benchmstr]

I’ve had the lmt, H&K, gap10, larue, and the JP lrp07..

The pws mk216 has been my absolute favorite hands down..couldn’t really tell you why..not the most accurate or the lightest..for whatever reason I just love that damn rifle..I have a lot of time behind the 218 as well and I love it too..but my 216 is the rifle I truly regret parting ways with.

 

[Arevalosocom]

Can't find a PWS 308 upper anywhere. Want one