How much pressure should I be using to pull the rifle in to my shoulder?
- Thread starter 3one5
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Bipod supported prone? I could easily be wrong but I think there should be zero. I'm under the impression all of the fwd/back pressure should be your torso loading the bipods. Try to eliminate as much "muscling" of the rifle as possible. If I'm way off base someone please correct me.
Bipod supported prone and bench.
For bipod prone, go to youtube and search for videos on "loading the bipod". There are one or two by SH's Lowlight, there is also one by 8541 Tactical, and there are others. Rather than trying to repeat what is said in the instructional videos, watch them and hear it from actual experts instead of me trying to learn and repeat.
I've been going through those and believe I've seen both videos you're talking about. The problem is that they really don't talk about the pressure needed to pull it in.
I'll look specifically for bipod loading.
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I believe the videos say to use no muscle pressure and only the weight of your body, through your shoulder, pushing the bipod forward to load it. I was reluctant to say anything because I am NOT an expert on technique and only know what I've learned from video and book sources and personal practice. So I may have it wrong. I use enough body-weight pressure to put some tension on the bipod, but not so much that it skids across the ground.
I'm thinking the same thing you are. They don't really mention it so maybe that means you don't apply any rearward pressure on the pistol grip to draw it in.
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Deleted member 10043
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not much about 10 pounds of pressure on average ballpark. If you have a 10 pound rifle just lie down on your back and let the butt rest in on your shoulder while the muzzle points to the ceiling. That should be what about 10 pounds "feels" like.
EDIT: Depends on the rifle. I'm referring to .30 rifles. You really need to stay tucked in. This is why people are going to smaller fat stubby cartridges to kill paper. They want to get fat, weak, and lazy and still make a good score.
Instead of doing some pushups to deal with recoil they would rather take the easier softer way out and get their jelly donuts everyday. With those barely over .22 caliber rifles you don't have to worry about staying tucked in unless you're an emaciated bantam hen.
EDIT: Depends on the rifle. I'm referring to .30 rifles. You really need to stay tucked in. This is why people are going to smaller fat stubby cartridges to kill paper. They want to get fat, weak, and lazy and still make a good score.
Instead of doing some pushups to deal with recoil they would rather take the easier softer way out and get their jelly donuts everyday. With those barely over .22 caliber rifles you don't have to worry about staying tucked in unless you're an emaciated bantam hen. Last edited by a moderator:
With a rest or bipod, I have been taught by several great instructors to only put fingertip pressure on the grip without wrapping the thumb around the stock, while loading the bipod forward with the body just enough to keep things tight. This completely eliminates the variables of hand pressure on the grip and leaves only the consistency variables of body pressure on the stock to deal with.
In prone, natural point of aim alone will tame the recoil of any rifle up to 308. But more than that takes a good muzzle brake to control recoil enough to watch your hits though your optic. This is my experience.
Very few precision shooting instructors teach the old technique of pulling a gun into the shoulder with the shooting hand. I know some very experienced shooters do it with good results, but not needing to pull on the rifle with the same consistency each time takes a big variable out of the picture.
In prone, natural point of aim alone will tame the recoil of any rifle up to 308. But more than that takes a good muzzle brake to control recoil enough to watch your hits though your optic. This is my experience.
Very few precision shooting instructors teach the old technique of pulling a gun into the shoulder with the shooting hand. I know some very experienced shooters do it with good results, but not needing to pull on the rifle with the same consistency each time takes a big variable out of the picture.
This is a question that cannot be answered properly because of the variables involved such as how heavy is the recoil of the rifle? On rear sandbags, rest or just shoulder....and I'm sure there are more variables but you get the idea.
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Deleted member 10043
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he said bipod prone or bench so there are the variables. Also, stating that muzzle brake for over .308 is a must is totally incorrect.
Through my experience in shooting (20+ years) on a bench and bipod, ive learned the more pressure you put on your rifle, be it with your shooting hand by gripping the stock too hard, or by pulling the rifle into your shoulder, the less accurate you will be and less consistent. Ive found that its best to let the rifle freely rest on the intended target with minimal effort from you. Especially your shooting hand. Your shooting hand is for pulling the trigger. Not for keeping your rifle on target. Thats what your other hand is for when shooting off a bipod with no rear bag. Just barely let the butt of the stock barey touch your shoulder. Just enough to say its against you.
Then again, this is just me, and Im no "expert".
Then again, this is just me, and Im no "expert".
From what I have been taught I have to agree with applying as little rearward pressure and grip as possible to the weapon system. It's simply too hard to apply the same exact amount of pressure each and every time you pull the trigger. Along with with that, endurance comes into it, without significant muscle training gripping and pulling 10 pounds for an hour straight will tire you out. If you've never shot while being exhausted you should know that it becomes very very difficult to stay focused on everything necessary. Like everyone else has said too, if I'm way off base don't hesitate to call me out. Best of luck to you though.
What you want on the shoulder is just enough pressure to take the slack out of the clothing between your skin and the butt of the stock, and just enough more than this to attach the skin to the underlying muscles. This way the shoulder muscles take the recoil forces without the rifle gaining speed under recoil on the way to your shoulder.
Damn it, now I need to head back to the range to try a few things!
Last time out I used a whole lot less pressure than in the past and I shot more sub moa groups than previous trips.
Last time out I used a whole lot less pressure than in the past and I shot more sub moa groups than previous trips.
Lots of different answers. Op, you don't need a lot of pressure. Let your body weight be the pressure and adjustyyour body/rifle where your not having to pull back on rhe rifle or push your shoulder forward.
But I say go to the range and before firing see what yih need to do that keeps everything still in the target then try that out during live fire to see how you manage it. J think people are different and you need to fund how you do the best. A serious instructor would be great if you can find one
Good luck!!!
But I say go to the range and before firing see what yih need to do that keeps everything still in the target then try that out during live fire to see how you manage it. J think people are different and you need to fund how you do the best. A serious instructor would be great if you can find one
Good luck!!!
For prone, the biggest mistake people try to make is to drive the bipod legs into the ground or get them to 'stick' so they can put as much forward force on it as possible. While it gives the illusion that you are forcing the rifle to stay straight and keep your reticle on target easier, it comes to screw you during recoil because your rifle is not 'riding' the recoil pulse the same way each time and the chance that your NPOA is off is high as well.
When laying down after pointing the rifle at the target, get down behind it without touching it and then inch forward with your feet until you meet the stock. At this point your spine should be parallel with the bore and your view through the optic should be on your target; now grip the rifle, put your head straight down on the stock (don't crane it forward) and pull backwards just enough to remove the slack in your shoulder.
When laying down after pointing the rifle at the target, get down behind it without touching it and then inch forward with your feet until you meet the stock. At this point your spine should be parallel with the bore and your view through the optic should be on your target; now grip the rifle, put your head straight down on the stock (don't crane it forward) and pull backwards just enough to remove the slack in your shoulder.
not much about 10 pounds of pressure on average ballpark. If you have a 10 pound rifle just lie down on your back and let the butt rest in on your shoulder while the muzzle points to the ceiling. That should be what about 10 pounds "feels" like.
EDIT: Depends on the rifle. I'm referring to .30 rifles. You really need to stay tucked in. This is why people are going to smaller fat stubby cartridges to kill paper. They want to get fat, weak, and lazy and still make a good score.
+1.
I am shouldering my rifle with somewhere between 5 and 10 pounds of pressure, based on picking up a couple of weights after dry firing for comparison, with my shooting hand. Elbow placement is very important, as are hand position and pulling this tension straight rearward, along with fitting the stock to my body characteristics. No thumb pressure. Firm cheek pressure downward / relaxed neck, driving the butt down into the rear bags. It takes a lot of practice but you can do all of these things and still achieve NPOA. My back and neck are relaxed. Bathroom scale says my left elbow is hitting the ground with about 15#. I am laying on the rifle. I never had any instruction so no doubt I am "doing it wrong". My long range "Expert" card came in the mail recently, shooting FTR at 1K, so it's going OK from my perspective.
I exercise regularly and have done some weight lifting to build up my upper body. I don't want to get big but a certain amount of upper body mass helps me with my shooting style. Also, doing cardio helps me get through a long weekend in the heat, control my heart rate, etc. I'm in my 50's so I can't take these things for granted anymore like some of you kids do.
I am acutely aware that I am doing this differently than most. For example, a much more accomplished shooter than me, Brian Litz, posted an article where he describes using little or no pressure on basically anything while shooting FTR:
Litz Dominates His First-Ever F-TR Match with Pierce-Built Rifle « Daily Bulletin
I am shooting off a Harris bipod and brick bags, so free recoil is not an option, nor do I currently have any interest in shooting free recoil. Perhaps one day I shall, and perhaps not.
