Question about Redding type S die

B

Boomstick308

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Feb 16, 2011
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#1
I'm new to reloading and I've started to piece together the equipment. I got a Hornady Lock and Load AP press and just came across this die:

Redding Type S Bushing Neck Sizer Die 308 Winchester
Product #: 428412 Manufacturer #: 71155
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=428412

It is used but in good condition for $30 shipped. Should I go with this die or should I just put that money towards something else? Please note that I am not looking to get .1moa groups so I can't justify spending $200 on some micrometer competition type die. Decided to get into reloading to save money (or shoot more for the same $$$) while getting respectable accuracy (.5moa or so)

I am also thinking about getting the RCBS set of 2 dies with full length sizing for every 5th reload.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=564956

So, please help me with die selection as I am lost in the multitude of options.
Also, could someone explain this bushing style die. would I still need to buy different bushings in order to use it?
 
#2
Re: Question about Redding type S die

You will have to buy bushings for the Redding die. The idea of the bushing die is to ensure a specific neck tension from case to case. This helps to induce another aspect of consistency from round to round as well as gives you another slight variable in making your ammunition as tighter neck tension will increase your pressure.

It's been a while since I've had to do this but to get your bushing size you measure both sides of your case neck with a micrometer, adding those to your caliber diameter and subtracting .001 - .003 from that number.

So let's say that the neck walls are .012 thick on both 'sides' (usually they may be slightly different, don't worry).

2 x .012 = .024
308 WIN = .308

.308 + .024 = .332

Now subtract .001 to .003 from that number for your bushing. In my experience people get more than one and see what works 'better' due to the slight change in neck tension/pressure.

As far as what dies you should get, the Redding may be a bit more high-end but RCBS is in the same category. I think you will have less runout with the bushing type die as a non-bushing die uses an expander ball. But the 2 dies you are comparing are oranges and apples. If you were to compare equal RCBS and Redding dies, I could say get either as they are both quality dies.

I would however suggest that whatever seating die you did get had a micrometer as I have wasted entirely too much time trying to set the right length blindly with non-micrometer seating dies, but that's just me.

And as for bias, I use the Redding S type to load for my M24 in 308 and the RCBS Competition dies to load for my BCD4 K98 Mauser in 8mm.

P.S. - Most of us got into reloading to make cheaper ammo. About halfway through your 4th or 5th batch of bullets you realize that you keep wanting to have things measure more consistently and you play 'what if' all of the time. If you are going to chase .5 MOA, this is going to end up NOT being cheap in the long run
laugh.gif

 
#3
Re: Question about Redding type S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheGerman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P.S. - Most of us got into reloading to make cheaper ammo. About halfway through your 4th or 5th batch of bullets you realize that you keep wanting to have things measure more consistently and you play 'what if' all of the time. If you are going to chase .5 MOA, this is going to end up NOT being cheap in the long run
laugh.gif

</div></div>

I know, Im starting to realize that... Should be fun tho.
 
#5
Re: Question about Redding type S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For .308 I use .337 for Fed/LC,for WW use .332 and R-P it's .335
Cheers,
LG </div></div>

This is one part I forgot to mention.

You will also need different size bushings as you change brands of brass. As lumpy mentioned, he uses different bushings per brand; this is because you won't get the same neck thickness from each brand, sometimes not from different batches of the same brand but that's going to be splitting hairs.

This is why you sort your brass by manufacturer and measure the neck walls as I mentioned above.
 
#6
Re: Question about Redding type S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomstick308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheGerman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P.S. - Most of us got into reloading to make cheaper ammo. About halfway through your 4th or 5th batch of bullets you realize that you keep wanting to have things measure more consistently and you play 'what if' all of the time. If you are going to chase .5 MOA, this is going to end up NOT being cheap in the long run
laugh.gif

</div></div>

I know, Im starting to realize that... Should be fun tho. </div></div>

Just stay away from the gimmicky crap and you'll do fine. I firmly believe in the buy once cry once mentality, but to a certain point.

An example of this is that I still use the hand cranked Wilson trimmer to trim my brass. I could have spent to get a Giraud for 400-500$, but the Wilson produces dead accurate, consistent results every time, is built well, doesn't require any kind of power to run and is easy to use. If you're needing to cut 1000s of pieces of brass or don't want to deal with the trimming part of things, that may be a different story as to what route you go.

Find out what you want to do, and buy your equipment to realize that idea. If you want .5 MOA (which will be just as dependent on your skill and rifle as it will be the ammunition) then you are going to have to find the equipment that can, with all things being the same, deliver that type of consistency to the ammunition making process.

This page may help you out a bit. While he is a bit more on the 'cheaper' side of things than I am, you will get a good starting idea:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/tools-of-the-trade/4529825076
 
#7
Re: Question about Redding type S die

Well I ended up getting the die. I was looking on Cabelas and see that they dont even stock the type S dies, Midway does although I did not see any bushings on their site.

How much are they and where can I get them from?
I guess I should wait for the seller to respond with the size of the bushings he is sending along with the die.
 
#10
Re: Question about Redding type S die

Put 'Redding Bushing' into the search at Midway and you'll find 13 pages worth of stuff.

Before ordering bushings, have you measured the neck thickness and what brand brass are you loading with; you'll need this info before you can figure out what bushing to get otherwise you're playing a $14 a piece crap shoot.

The bushings come in 2 flavors, Titanium Nitride and Steel. The Titanium is almost twice the price but is supposed to reduce any friction but I do not have any and have not tried it. I've had zero issues with the regular steel ones.

Make sure when you get the dies that you inspect them inside and out. Take them apart, clean them and look through the die body with a light to ensure there are no scrapes, burrs or anything that doesn't look like a smooth inner surface. I think if there is an issue with the die, Redding will replace it should it come to that.
 
#11
Re: Question about Redding type S die

You've gotten a lot of good advice and info here. I just started reloading, .308 and .223 with the Redding dies. The bushing sizer and competition seater work as advertised. Thing I like about the seater is I'm loading two different .308 bullets and three different .223 bullets and the micrometer seater makes it so easy to go from one to the other with repeatability. I'm sold on this system but don't know that I'd invest in it for loading my .300 mag for hunting.
 
#12
Re: Question about Redding type S die

I have some LC Match and regular LC head stamp. I measured the wall thickness and came up with .012 or .013 after measuring about 5-7 of them.
I also measured the entire width of the cartridges (neck) and all were between .334 and .335

So based on TheGermans advise I should subtract between .001 - .003 from either .335 or .334

How precise do I need to make all these measurements?

 
#13
Re: Question about Redding type S die

Were you measuring just the brass or loaded rounds? They have to be loaded rounds. .335 sounds too small for a loaded round. I use anywhere from .336 to .338 for my bushings.
 
#15
Re: Question about Redding type S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were you measuring just the brass or loaded rounds? They have to be loaded rounds. .335 sounds too small for a loaded round. I use anywhere from .336 to .338 for my bushings. </div></div>

The way I understand this is that there are 2 ways to measure this:

Either measure the neck with a micrometer on a loaded round OR measure the neck thickness after sizing/trimming, add the 2 together and add this to the caliber diameter (formula I listed above).

They SHOULD give you the same number.
 
#16
Re: Question about Redding type S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were you measuring just the brass or loaded rounds? They have to be loaded rounds. .335 sounds too small for a loaded round. I use anywhere from .336 to .338 for my bushings. </div></div>

Yeah I was measuring some of the fire formed brass that I have. I will measure some of the unfired rounds later on.

Thanks for the heads up.
 
#17
Re: Question about Redding type S die

Alright so I measured 10 of the loaded rounds (BVAC .308) and got readings between .338 to .340 (7-8 of them being .340) so in order to allow for .002 spring back then I should order a .338 bushing?
 
#19
Re: Question about Redding type S die

Go with a .337 bushing to start. Too little neck tension will not hold the bullet in, rendering the round unusable.
 
#20
Re: Question about Redding type S die

Reading all this has me coming up with a theoretical question.

What happens if you measured wrong, or picked the wrong bushing and instead of say a .337 you went with a .333? I somehow don't think it would do that much difference; maybe an increase in pressure but not much.

Anyone know for sure?

Also, measuring the outside of the neck with the bullet seated could be done just as accurately with a caliper as it could with a micrometer couldn't it?
 
#21
Re: Question about Redding type S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not a damn "shim".
.002 NT is the max u want.
Try .339......
LG </div></div>

I noticed that I wrote "shim" as soon as I was clicking submit but it was too late. had to edit my post immediately afterwards.

I know, it's a bushing.
Thanks for the size tho.
 
#22
Re: Question about Redding type S die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheGerman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reading all this has me coming up with a theoretical question.

What happens if you measured wrong, or picked the wrong bushing and instead of say a .337 you went with a .333? I somehow don't think it would do that much difference; maybe an increase in pressure but not much.

Anyone know for sure?

Also, measuring the outside of the neck with the bullet seated could be done just as accurately with a caliper as it could with a micrometer couldn't it? </div></div>

A micrometer is usually more accurate than your calipers...but a caliper will usually get the job done for you without any problems.

As far as using an bushing that's "too small" it really won't do you any good. For one, your then using the bullet as an expander which it's not supposed to be and you'll probably induce some runout by working the brass too much.

Brass will stretch and usually on spring back about .001" or so. For example if you seat a bullet into a neck that has an OD of .333" and your now loaded round measures .337" OD at the neck, you would think you would have .004" of neck tension but you don't. If you pull that bullet and remeasure the OD of the neck it won't measure back to .333" but it would measure probably around .336" or so depending on your brass and how soft it is.

Bottom line, .001-.002" is more than enough for neck tension. I"m sure someone else a little more articulate will be able to explain that better than I just did.

But, to get the correct bushing simply measure the outside diameter of your loaded round, subtract .001", and .002" and order one bushing of each size to start. You could always return or sell the other bushing that you don't want or just keep it to experiment with neck tension...

Based on your measurements I would get a .339" and a .338"

After repeated firings, your brass will work harden and the bushing will not size down as much as it used to when the brass was closer to new, or the first two firings. You can either anneal your necks or use a smaller bushing to keep the neck tension the same.
 
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