Question about sports cars / capabilities

Mike_Honcho

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Preface - I have never owned a sports car, I never driven a real sports car either.

Yesterday coming home from the coast on a twisty 2 lane mountainous road in a cheby suburban - 5 mph over the posted speed was comfortably fast through the corner, 10 mph over and shit is sliding off the front seats; and while it stays planted and all - its a pig.

So how fast can a real sports car - 911 for instance or a new vette - go through a 40 mph corner and if you f*ck it up - you end up in the river below? If the pig can roll through comfortably at 5+, beginning of uncomfortable at 10+ and probably breaks loose, goes full Tigger at 20+ - how fast can one of those push through?
 

Maggot

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  • Jul 27, 2007
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    Cant answer that as Ive not driven a 'REAL; one either but the only one I ever really wanted was the Porsche 959.

    1614131636019.png

    Porsche 959 - Porsche USA

    www.porsche.com/.../classic/models/959
    With a biturbo flat engine featuring water-cooled 4-valve cylinder heads, an electronically controlled chassis and all-wheel drive system, as well as an aerodynamically optimised body, Porsche demonstrated what was possible in the field of automotive design at that time. Despite its price of 420,000 Deutschmarks, the 959 quickly sold out.
     

    SugarBooger

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    On a sport bike, with a modicum of ability and a pure penchant for being a squid, twice the posted speed limit was a good marker.

    Learning how to properly ride ON A CLOSED COURSE race track... well, limits are meant to be found and pushed.

    Out on the twistys, you can't account for a soccer mom in a minivan yelling at her brood in the back while updating her social media. A track is forgiving and will still take your life. YMMV
     

    Hey You

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    Speed limits can not judge the speed you can negotiate a corner. Yes there are plenty of curves where you can double or triple the limit...but there are plenty where you will be off the road at 20 over no mater what you drive. Anybody who says that they can automatically double a speed limit in a curve has never been on a really curvy road. There are plenty of roads where 15 over the limit is very hard cornering.
     

    Geno C.

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    Cant answer that as Ive not driven a 'REAL; one either but the only one I ever really wanted was the Porsche 959.

    View attachment 7565250

    Porsche 959 - Porsche USA

    www.porsche.com/.../classic/models/959
    With a biturbo flat engine featuring water-cooled 4-valve cylinder heads, an electronically controlled chassis and all-wheel drive system, as well as an aerodynamically optimised body, Porsche demonstrated what was possible in the field of automotive design at that time. Despite its price of 420,000 Deutschmarks, the 959 quickly sold out.
    Does it suck to have a small penis?
     

    candyx

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    If you can use both lanes you can crank through the curve pretty damn good also depending on the radius of the curve . Formula 1 cars can only do about 30 around a hair pin curve where as normal size curves at 160 plus. Now Ken Block can crank around any curve balls out in his custom made cars.
     

    brianf

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    We used to play 2X the posted limit in serious sports cars.

    but as said above the track is where you can really push to the maximum. And where you should, the “street” just has to much going on and poor road conditions to really focus the amount needed to extract the last 10%

    you would also be surprised how much farther you can get any vehicle (minivan, suv..anything) with proper racing line and some training.

    It’s a Perishable skill just like shooting.

    I’ve been on tracks in a “slower” car embarrassing faster cars...then when a real sponsored driver (Marco Andretti did it to me a few times lol) shows up he’d smoke me lol.
     

    whatsupdoc

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    My son has had a fair share of fast cars, Lotus, Audi R8 and two Mclarens to name a few.
    He tracks his cars they are not garage queens.

    His 720s with carbon brakes and active aero was awe inspiring on the track, words cant describe it
    if you took a video from inside the car it would seem boring.

    It can corner hard enough that with a helmet on you realize how weak your neck muscles are.
    Hard cornering on public roads is fun until you hit a sandy or slick spot and friction ceeases to exist.

    I have an older Corvette Z06, it goes around corners pretty good just not in the same universe.
     

    Statusquo

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    The old rule of thumb for street bikes was you could take a curve at twice the posted speed with one hand on the handlebars.
     

    brianf

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    If you can use both lanes you can crank through the curve pretty damn good also depending on the radius of the curve . Formula 1 cars can only do about 30 around a hair pin curve where as normal size curves at 160 plus. Now Ken Block can crank around any curve balls out in his custom made cars.
    Reason formula one cars are exponentially slower on lower speed corners is because the “aero” (all the wings and underbelly) are not moving enough air.

    slow corners are all about mechanical grip...suspension plus how sticky the tire is.

    high speed is about downforce and balance and or course tires.

    if the car is fine at 80 (aero is just starting to work) but poor balance...120 on a “equal for speed” corner...the car might try to kill you.

    That’s why a Ferrari is not just a mustang with a blower, power is easy.

    having the car behave with the same characteristics from 60 to 150 or so is where all the wind tunnel time and suspension tuning comes in. Not just rock hard springs and shocks with super sticky tires.
     

    OldSalty2

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    cr2go1awpi4uxjhfwohy.gif
     

    brianf

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    also...drifting while looks cool is slower than taking the turn properly (if on a prepared road surface not talking dirt gravel etc)

    the idea is it to get the car pointed in its new direction as soon as possible while being able to put power down.

    minimal steering input

    the more you turn the steering wheel the less efficient you are through a corner...efficiency equals momentum and momentum equals speed.

    most writers and bloggers (not the big guys or ones that write for road and track etc) drift because it looks cool and they really can’t feel what’s happening on the limit.

    so they put the car in a drift and just slide through a corner instead of slicing through it.
     

    Maggot

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    Would you brag about sucking mine?

    Sorry, I couldn’t resist 😆
    The old joke about that is:

    "Would you suck my dick for a dime" or course the answer is "No".

    "Would you suck it for a million dollars?" ""Maybe"

    "So then we're just talking price."
     
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    Jigstick

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    The old joke about that is:

    "Would you suck my dick for a dime" or course the answer is "No".

    "Would you suck it for a million dollars?" ""Maybe"

    "So then we're just talking price."
    Would you suck it just for the taste?
     

    HiDesertELR

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    My TKD instructor used to race SCCA or something similar... Let me drive his stripped down 911 once after seeing me tearing it up in my 70 Chevelle (handled pretty good with sway bars front and rear, discs, BFG T/A's).

    Anyway, doing a buck 30 into what was marked a 45 mph turn (way under signage, I took that at 80 when it was dry, two lane in each direction), I started letting off the throttle before the turn to set it up, and he screams "NO!!!!" and reaches over from the passenger side and pushes my leg down (no homo you fags) to keep the throttle down.

    Holy shit I thought we were going to die. I might've closed my eyes in anticipation of the carnage, but nope... That thing just stuck and carved through.

    I let off and exited at the next off ramp, pronto. He was laughing his ass off, and told me to leave tearing it up to real drivers with real cars before I got myself killed in my hot rod.

    I never did get myself a 911, but I wrecked that Chevy a few times. I was a decent driver, but the street is no place for what I wanted to do behind the wheel.

    Keep it on the track...
     

    addertooth

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    I have a fair chunk of time on a track, and racing SCCA as well. Key factors are suspension and good soft gummy tires. The biggest performance upgrade is driver training. I have seen people in Volvo wagons turning times (on twisty tracks) which were amazing.. it was the driver. Most higher tier sports cars will corner far harder than your typical driver is comfortable with. It will take time for you to build the comfort with driving at 9/10ths of what a true sports car can deliver. With track tires, my Lotus corners over 1G, but, and it is a big caveat... sports cars have a finer edge... the car will feel great, right up to the point things go psychedelic on you. I still remember coming loose on a track through a series of tight S corners... and exited the track backwards at over 60 MPH.

    A less sporty car, on harder composition tires is more forgiving, and will start sliding long before the really bad stuff happens. You get plenty of warning you are at the limits of traction...you get warned to slow down. Probably one of the easiest cars to drive close to the edge is the old 90s Miata cars (MX-5)... They were super forgiving, and recover with a simple snap of the wheel. They are a favorite at the SCCA tracks for this very reason.

    Mid-Engine and Rear Engine cars have been known as "doctor killers", as "snap oversteer" will nail you if you touch the brakes while corning at the extreme limits of cornering. Some time on a large flat tarmac is merited for anyone who has hopes of driving one of these performance cars up to the limits. On mid/rear engine cars, they defy common logic, often the corrective action is MORE throttle.
     
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    BikePilot

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    My 968 has proven to be one of the more tossble, easy to drive cars I’ve had. Really communicative and forgiving with moderate limits. In many cars, but especially rear-weight biased ones, letting off or braking after turn in is a rather bad idea. The 968 does have lift off oversteer, but it doesn’t snap around like an old 911. At my old office with a wide left turn into a surface parking lot I’d usually lift off on turn in to get the rear loose then stomp the pedal in 2nd and enter the lot in a nice drift to the amusement of my coworkers :)
     
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    darkfader

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    Gaaah. This thread is giving me the winter time blues. All my go-fast rides are put away until springtime weather breaks. Haven’t had my Z06 to the track yet, but it’s ready. I’m hoping to invest in some instruction this summer. I’ve got a lot of seat time on the track with the bike though so I’m hoping knowledge of the race line and layout help.
    35DA986C-DC0F-4CB6-9C97-4D8175871D76.jpeg2BC19158-15E5-49FE-85D2-630994DC1D53.jpeg
     

    acudaowner

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    i always found it sort of funny / scary how people with no skill driving nice cars think the car alone will make up for there lack of driving skills . Especially after watching a friend roll his at the time new Porsche into a ditch totally junking the car .
     

    HiDesertELR

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    Probably one of the easiest cars to rive close to the edge is the old 90s Miata cars (MX-5)... They were super forgiving, and recover with a simple snap of the wheel. They are a favorite at the SCCA tracks for this very reason.
    A friend had one of those, told me it was his race car. I laughed.

    Went for a quick ride with him... Once.

    Damn near ejected me out the passengers side when he took a 90 degree left turn at 60.
     
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    Maggot

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    i always found it sort of funny / scary how people with no skill driving nice cars think the car alone will make up for there lack of driving skills . Especially after watching a friend roll his at the time new Porsche into a ditch totally junking the car .

    McLaren 720S sports car 'destroyed' in crash day after it was ...

    www.foxnews.com/auto/mclaren-720s-sports-car...
    Jul 16, 2018 · Driver wrecks brand new $300K McLaren 720S sports car Luxury McLaren 720S sports car totaled the day after it was purchased in Great Falls, Virginia. That's not getting your money's worth.
     
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    HousePlant

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    I do (well, did... Mustang was totaled driving between shops) time trial racing. Depends on the corner but I'll take some corners at 130+, some at 30.

    I can take the same corners in a Spec Miata race car faster... if I can up to that speed, anyway. Haha.

    Depends on chassis, driver, tire, heat, surface, traffic, etc.

    On the street, there are few cars left that will roll over and explode if you go through any turn at 10+ over the "speed limit"... but doesn't mean you should do it. It's safer - literally - to be racing on a race track than driving to work.
     
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    lowlight

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    Marc and I drove across the US teaching classes and I drove the Porsche and on a 25 - 30 MPH curve like going through SD around Deadwood and Sturgis I could do 75 to 100 without any issues.

    I had an Acura behind me on one and they chickened out around 55 MPH on one curve and I had no problem doing 75 and putting a lot of space between us.

    Really the curves are where the sport cars shine
     

    Tokay444

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    My car is boing as fuck in a straight line. Even the radio sucks, but get me in the twisties and I couldn’t care less about the radio or much else at all.