• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Question-Bullet Comparators

Sigarmed 1

Private
Minuteman
Oct 2, 2008
51
0
60
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
I'm just getting started reloading and am confused about something already.
crazy.gif
I am using a Hornady Lock-N-Load OAL gauge and the associated 30 cal. bullet comparator. After measuring the OAL many times to get a good average, I tried doing the same thing using a Sinclair comparator. All of my readings were consistently off by .095. I then measured how deep the bullet fit into each comparator and it turns out that the same bullet sits .095 deeper in the Sinclair comparator. So, which measurement do I use to set up my die and why? I'm sure there is something obvious that I am missing so hopefully the wealth of experience here will set me straight!
smile.gif
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide to get me started off on the right foot!
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

My method is simple and doesn't require any tools, just micrometers, simply squeeze a fired case with your fingers so it wil grip a bullet (same as your reloading with) insert round in chamber and close bolt. extract and this is "on the lands". if you have controlled round feed you'll have to put the case under your extractor. if you need "jam" (bergers) your oal will be longer than this. if you need "jump" (smk) your oal will be that much shorter. Dig?
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

You basically just need to go apples to apples - oranges to oranges. Whatever you measure one with whether it be micrometer calipers, Sinclair, Redding, whatever use that everytime. You might get rid if the other one or write down which one you use to avoid confusion.
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

You can also get a case and cut the case on both sides down to the shoulder using a dremel tool, use the thin blade. THen place you projo in the cartridge and when you chamber it, the projo will be right on. Assuming you have a good set of dies you then can play with the seating depth. R/ Mike
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

Thanks for the replies but the problem is not with the gauge, it works great, it's with the comparator. The bullet goes into one further than it does the other and I don't know which one to believe. I mean, there is a 95 thousanths difference between them. I need an accurate measurement from case head to ogive so I can set up my dies properly and then experiment with different distances "off the lands" etc. Does that make sense? I am new to this so maybe I am not explaining my problem clearly enough.
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

They are measuring the exact same thing. You simply need to pick one and stick with it, easy as that. If this is confusing you, you are thinking about it way to hard. The purpose of these tools is to take a measurement somewhere(anywhere) on the ogive and not at the tip which isn't uniform due to the swaging process.
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

Check the diameter of each bushing, I suspect one is larger than the other.

I've been drinking, som let meknow if this makes sense to you.
smile.gif

 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

I guess what is confusing me is this, the two comparators are obviously calling different places on the bullet the "ogive" and using that as the point of measurement. I mean, if I set the seating die based on the measurement I got using the Hornady comp. so that the bullet is just touching the lands, and then I set it using the measurement I got using the Sinclair comp., then that bullet will be jammed 95 thousanths into the lands whereas the one seated based on the Hornady comparator is just touching. Does that make sense or am I still over thinking this? (over thinking=head up ass)
grin.gif
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Halfnutz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You think faster than I type.
</div></div>

Yeah, I'm pretty good at confusing myself!
grin.gif


So, I guess what it boils down to is figuring out which comparator will contact the bullet at the same location as the rifling will. How the hell do I figure that out?
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

neither one will. and your seating die wont contact the bullet at the same location as the comparators. what the two comparators are giving you is a measurement to a "datum point". regardless of the measurement to the datum point, your bullet is still touching the lands with both. what you have to do is pick one, then you "set" your die so that when you seat a bullet in a case and then measure said loaded case (with the comparator of your choice) the measurement is the same one you got when you measured your chamber.

the problem stems from the fact that the ogive is not the same on every kind of bullet, thus it is not possible to make a comparator that actually tells you where your lands are. so what you get is a somewhat random sized hole that varies by manufacturer and measures at some point between the tip and the shank of the bullet. but it makes no difference because you are using the same random point every time you measure the loaded round.

to make things interesting you will need to repeat the process every time you get a new batch of bullets (even if they are the same make as your previous ones) because every batch of bullets is slightly different. if you take a 168gr smk for example, then grab a 168gr nosler j4, the ogive profile is different. this means that the location along the bullets length where they touch the lands is different, thus the OAL will be different when both are touching the lands. and because your seating die also uses a random point along the ogive to seat the bullets, you will have to reset it for both bullets to get them both to just touch the lands.

if you want to know the actual distance from the bolt face to the lands, then you will need to get a chamber cast made. but this information is nearly useless because you wont be able to find a comparator that will measure to the same point on the bullet nor a seating die that will seat at the same point.

clear as mud right?
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

Actually it IS clear as mud
laugh.gif


Pick to one comparator insert and stick to it.

If you take a measurement with the OAL tool to the lands, and then measure that distance with the Sinclair insert, use the Sinclair insert when setting up your seating die and to check the seating depth on your loaded rounds.

If you use the Hornady insert (like I do) then stick with that one throughout the entire process, as above.

You do this experiment I guess. Do both of the above with each insert, and make two dummy roads.

Then measure base to tip and (minus the slight variance you will see in the base to tip variation of the actual BULLET) you will you see your base to tip measurement are pretty damn close. They definitely will not be off as much as are you 'thinking'.

If you need more help, come back
laugh.gif


 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

...and the light bulb finally comes on!! I guess I just needed you guys to dumb it down enough for me to get it.
grin.gif
It all makes sense now though, so thanks for taking the time to write such clear and concise explanations. I guess I am just trying to be so careful to do everything "just right" that sometimes I over analyze things and confuse myself. Thanks again for the help everyone. (Just another example of exactly what makes this place so great!!!)
 
Re: Question-Bullet Comparators

You are most welcome!