Question for Gunslinger II users

[pmclaine]

I recently got my new GSII delivered. Earlier this week I spent some time fitting it. To do so I packed the rifle than filled in all my typical range gear. My purpose was to fit the pack so I didn't play with removing inserting the rifle at the time.

Today I packed it up for use. This time I loaded my range gear than went to the safe and got the rifle out. I set the base of the Intex frame on a chair so the foot of the rifle scabbard would be free and I put my LMT CQB with Atlas muzzle down in the pack. I was surprised it would only go partially into the rifle sleeve. The compression straps were not run through the webbing to compress the rifle scabbard but I thought the compression straps were pushing my gear into the rifle scabbard preventing the rifle from entering anyway. I loosened the compression straps and with some effort got the rifle seated in the sleeve.

Packing up from the range encountered the same problem. I released the compression straps and tried to insert the rifle, no good. I removed the Atlas thinking the rubber feet or its protrusion was the problem, still no go. I said screw it loosened the top cover so it would fit over the partially inserted rifle and threw the pack in my car backseat and left.

Tonight looking at the pack I came to the conclusion the horizontal cross member of the Intex frame interferes with the verticality of the rifle scabbard. I could see where the frame pushes the foot of the scabbard out of line and it was at a point where the rail of my rifle was getting hung up.

So I decided to own the pack. I cut the little strap keeper that is sewn on the strap that holds the frame into its pocket and removed the Intex frame. I like those sewn on strap keepers but I found it weird that they put one on the Intex securing strap because with it you cant feed the strap back through its nylon lock. A little quick surgery and some flame to seal the cut nylon solved that problem and I removed the frame. The strap is still useable if I want to put the frame back in. I was under the impression that either using or removing the tube frame was a design consideration with this pack.

All well and good with out the frame the scabbard is a straight column from top to bottom but....the rifle scabbard is now a formless entity that is separate from the load part of the pack. When the pack is carried by a side handle as I am likely to do taking this back and forth from the car the scabbard is not a shaped square rifle receptacle it sags and becomes a rhombus or parallelogram. The load section of the pack remains pretty solid because of the compression straps but it gets no support attached to the rifle scabbard and becomes a swinging weight attached to my rhombus/parallelogram rifle scabbard.

As noted I don't have the compression straps routed through the rifle scabbard. I imagine if I do so the scabbard and pack will again become one and stable...but if I compress the rifle scabbard with the straps the rifle wont be coming out of the scabbard unless I release compression. I was under the impression that the rifle could be "drawn" from the scabbard on the go.

Giving it further thought if the Intex frame is that much in the way just trying to load the rifle Im kind of concerned about the force it would apply to my rifle rail. Either during a hike or from dropping the pack in a less than gentle way you could pressure that bar perpendicular to the rifle rail. Id hope the LMT monorail is tougher than the aluminum tube and would not bend but who knows? Id figure one or the other would have to give and neither outcome is desirable.

Am I screwing something up with how I am using this pack? Ill be sending this question to Eberlestock also for designer advice on how Im botching the use of a pack that so many others have success with.

My earlier review on the pack here

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ipment/230423-thoughts-new-gunslinger-ii.html

 

[diverdon]

I am sure glad I read this before I ordered one. If I had the problems your are having I would be very frustrated. Did you buy your pack from Ceylon? Supposedly he know a lot about them and perhaps he could suggest a solution.

 

[pmclaine]

Dont make your decision based on my one report. There are way more happy reviewers out there.

The pack sits in the backseat now packed for todays range trip. Fitting the rifle in without the Intex frame was easy this morning, even with the main pack compressed.

When I first fiddled with the pack last week I wondered about the purpose of the frame. I figured it wasnt doing much for load support not having an attachment to either the waist belt or shoulder straps. What it apparently does do is provide support and make the two seperate load compartments - scabbard and load pack - a more stable construction.

I did buy the pack from Delta and Ceylon is great to deal with. I have a PM in to him for info.

Im not so unsatisfied with the pack I will return it. For glorified, bulk capacity range bag it works good. Ill probably get more use out of my spotting scope now as I can take it with me in one package rather than hassling with more trips to/from vehicle to the line hauling individual pieces of gear. I have a Tac Ops drag bag I was, am still, using. Thats good for the rifle, some ammo and mags, maybe some cold weather gear but I wanted a pack for full day trips/hauling my Kowa/tripod hence the purchase of the GSII.

The Intex II frame is relatively new. I think I will use it when not packing a rifle. Eberlestock mentions coming frame options maybe what comes will be based on situations like what Im having and their solution will work for me.

Check one of these out in person. Dont condemn it based on my experience.

 

[drum13]

I just got my GSII in December and have the exact same issues. It's the new model with the tubular frame (same as yours). The ALICE type frame is nice and sturdy but between that and the location of the compression strap tie-downs on the scabbard totally ruins the functionality of the scabbard.

There's no way I could draw or holster a rifle while the pack is on my back. It hangs up in the same spots you describe. I have to wrestle with the pack to get the rifle in or out of the scabbard even while the pack is on the ground.

Don't know wtf they were thinking when they designed this but I'm sorry I spent over $300 on this pack.

 

[pmclaine]

I just got my GSII in December and have the exact same issues. It's the new model with the tubular frame (same as yours). The ALICE type frame is nice and sturdy but between that and the location of the compression strap tie-downs on the scabbard totally ruins the functionality of the scabbard.

There's no way I could draw or holster a rifle while the pack is on my back. It hangs up in the same spots you describe. I have to wrestle with the pack to get the rifle in or out of the scabbard even while the pack is on the ground.

Don't know wtf they were thinking when they designed this but I'm sorry I spent over $300 on this pack.

Billy,

How have you been?

Nice to know its not just me discovering this about the GSII.

I removed the frame and it definitely freed up the scabbard allowing it to be more the rifle garbage can I expected it to be. Again I did that at the loss of the pack stability. Im assuming you removed the compression straps from the webbing that serve to compress the scabbard? If you know what Im talking about disregard, if you dont know what Im talking about take a look at the sides of the pack where the compression straps anchor and you will see what I mean.

Even still doing that, unless you remove the Intex its cross bar will interfere with the utility of the scabbard.

Ive stripped mine down for car to firing line range bag use. I pulled the frame and removed the waist belt. This has made the bag good for my intended use. If I have to do any walking with my stuff the shoulder straps are still available and the belt is stored on board in the pocket the bottom of the scabbard tucks into. Pulling the belt was a good thing as jamming it into the car now is not like trying to stuff a crab into a small pot with its legs sticking out everywhere.

What I really like about the pack is how it fits my spotter and stand. I will get good use out of the pack despite its shortcomings. If you are really unsatisfied with your pack try and return it. I sent an email to Eberlestock and Ill let you know what they say. The Eberlestock site mentions coming frame options maybe they will have an improvement, I will be a little pissed if it results in much cost to make the pack secure and have a useable scabbard.

Knowing what I know now if I was going for an alternative Id get something from Mystery Ranch. Perhaps a NICE frame, attach an Eberlestock scabbard for protecting the rifle, than an appropriate Mystery Ranch pack bag for my spotter and range gear. Cost for that would be considerably more than the GSII though.

Id hoped the GSII would be good for range and other recreation activities. With my changes Ive made it into useful handcarry range luggage which was about 90 percent of my intended use. As a hiking/hunting rifle hauler dont expect to easily access your gun if you have it set up for stabile carry. I'm also a little concerned about testing what will bend first - the frame bar or my rifle rail - the interference is that bad. Maybe skinny, sleek front bolt guns fit better than railed AR's.

What I did do to get that extended day pack utility is I bought one of the London Bridge Trading Company 3 day packs they have on sale for $49 bucks. Ordered Saturday arriving today. Check them out

http://lbtinc.com/bags-backpacks-pa...ackpacks/standard-three-day-assault-pack.html

$60 to my door for something advertized as a $150 plus bag, I should be good to go for a small pack to use on day hikes, skiing or carrying the kids water bottles on trips into town.

Im shooting the next few weekends give a shout if your around. We can bring our matching GSII's and look like total sausage smugglers.

 

[pmclaine]

Update from Eberlestock. Their reply to my emails.

"Phil,

We have had this issue from a few customers and although we have not experienced this issue ourselves we are coming out with a Gossamer frame that is designed to be used in place of the Intex II frame. This will be a polycarbonate frame sheet that will slide in to the same slot as the Intex II frame in place of this. This new frame system should be available for purchase around Mid March."


My reply

"Thank you for this info. I can see the value of the Intex frame as far as giving the two storage areas -scabbard and pack - some stability. This is fine if not packing a rifle but a railed AR can not get past the horizontal frame section.

I will look forward to hearing more about the new frame sheet that is coming out and if there is any plan to address issues some customers have had with the inability to use the Intex and pack their rifle.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your service."

 

[diverdon]

Update from Eberlestock. Their reply to my emails.

"Phil,

We have had this issue from a few customers and although we have not experienced this issue ourselves we are coming out with a Gossamer frame that is designed to be used in place of the Intex II frame. This will be a polycarbonate frame sheet that will slide in to the same slot as the Intex II frame in place of this. This new frame system should be available for purchase around Mid March."

I wonder if we can get a free frame sheet that works?

Let me see if I got this straight.

They sold you a pack that does not work quite right. But, they will also sell you something that will make it work a little better if you wait till March. I am glad I did not drink their Koolaid, they should Just make it right.

 

[drum13]

Hey Phil - Thanks for posting the email. I'm calling BS that they haven't experienced the issue themselvs. With the design of the pack - how can you not??!

For what it's worth.... I'm having the issues with my Remington 700 fitting and I haven't even tried putting the AR10 in yet.

Anyway I'm 3-11 right now, this blows. I'll check in later.

 

[drum13]

Phil, those London Bridge 3-day packs are not on sale any more. You got a killer deal! I was using a similar style pack before the GSII, you might remember it, kind of a regular backpack design. It has a little more room in the main compartment than the Eberlestock GSII.

I was looking for a scabbard to attach to my pack as well. And being able to load up the vehicle for the range without the neighbors seeing the guns makes the GSII is very cool in that aspect. My 700 has a 20" barrel and only about 1/2 the butt stock appears when it's holstered. I've never had to use the "Butt cover" which is funny because I thought I'd really need it and was one of the reasons I picked the GSII. My buddy has a Lo-Drag model and the scabbard comes down the back of my knees, not so with the GSII.

Yes, I tried removing the compression straps. It did ease up a little but as you said, the rifle will still get caught up on the horizontal tubular cross section. If that piece wasn't curved inboard, I think it would be okay and could live with the compression strap tension on the scabbard.

Another major dislike with the pack is that you have to undo buckles and straps to access the main compartment. And that top pouch flopping around.... it should be permanently fixed down instead of needing to be secured with two straps and buckles.

I'll save you the additional bitching and just say I'm unfortunately a bit disappointed with the pack. The "cons" list is outweighing the "pros"..... but mostly because of the scabbard issue. As it sits now it's only a glorified range bag.... which is okay but I was hoping it could multi-task a bit for other uses.

I might just check out one of these for my old pack -- Weapon Sling -- and call it a day. Then put the GSII up on ebay.

I'm always up for shooting...please give a shout next time you plan to go. I'll leave my GSII in the car so we don't look like pickle-smoothers with matching backpacks. Then again, we'd look super cool with matching backpacks and using the walkies we stole from your kid!!

 

[mark5pt56]

I don't have the new GSII model, got the older one and after really humping it around, always felt as if the load was unstable since the scabbard pushed it out some what. I found the only use for the scabbard was to simply get the rifle from A to B and would always carry it in my hands. After asking some questions on here, I went with the Mystery Ranch Metcalf/NICE frame. technically, I can pack my rifle on the Metcalf and even with a scabbard if I had to(doubt it). I did the day pack option as well. I spent alot of time going over what I wanted in a pack and the MR fit the bill the best for me.
If I was to redesign the GSII, it would be a name change since there would be no scabbard on board. I did like the main compartment design, especially when you could open it up and have most things sitting there for use. The top lid would be removable as a day pack and I would have the sides with full length sleeve pockets or zippered compartments with sleeve pockets underneath for tripod, etc. Oh-and I would make sure the molle is actually sewed on through both layers of material, I ripped the bottom strips and had to run up to Vel-Tye for repair. I didn't see that the factory stitching is light and only through the outer layer.

The MR is my backpacking/hunting/camping pack now and I have a old London Bridge Trading (old, I mean 804 area code) and Actual US made Eagle 3 day for range time. I still have the GSII, son is using it right now.

 

[pmclaine]

I don't have the new GSII model, got the older one and after really humping it around, always felt as if the load was unstable since the scabbard pushed it out some what. I found the only use for the scabbard was to simply get the rifle from A to B and would always carry it in my hands. After asking some questions on here, I went with the Mystery Ranch Metcalf/NICE frame. technically, I can pack my rifle on the Metcalf and even with a scabbard if I had to(doubt it). I did the day pack option as well. I spent alot of time going over what I wanted in a pack and the MR fit the bill the best for me.
If I was to redesign the GSII, it would be a name change since there would be no scabbard on board. I did like the main compartment design, especially when you could open it up and have most things sitting there for use. The top lid would be removable as a day pack and I would have the sides with full length sleeve pockets or zippered compartments with sleeve pockets underneath for tripod, etc. Oh-and I would make sure the molle is actually sewed on through both layers of material, I ripped the bottom strips and had to run up to Vel-Tye for repair. I didn't see that the factory stitching is light and only through the outer layer.

The MR is my backpacking/hunting/camping pack now and I have a old London Bridge Trading (old, I mean 804 area code) and Actual US made Eagle 3 day for range time. I still have the GSII, son is using it right now.

If I were going to be packing the rifle in the scabbard it would not be my belief that I would need to access it quickly. It would be purely for getting from point A to B. Id be using the compression straps and creating a solid pack. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to use the Intex for added stability because I think it incompatible with my rifles (LMT MWS and CQB).

If I were in a place that had bears or while hunting critters I would want the rifle in my hands or slung readily available.

The mystery ranch stuff is really nice (no pun intended) and you get what you pay for. Im not doing any hunting or foot packing of my rifle or I would be going down that path. The GSII gives me good rifle protection/cloaking from scardy cat neighbors, excellent space to hold my spotter and gear needed at the range, and is of good enough construction for those uses.

Eberlestock has responded and gone so far as to admit they have an awareness of the issue. That was admirable to admit that. I have no problem with them and Im not crapping on their company. It will be interesting to see what they do going forward. I hope they improve their product and there will be consideration of those customers that are not fully satisfied. That's the sign of a customer oriented company.

If someone is considering this pack this is just information for them to consider going forward. You really need to look at one/try one and make your own conclusion.

Edit - After looking at Mystery Ranch now - Maybe a Crew Cab with an Eberlestock Tactical Rifle case on the side would have been sweet.

 

[fireEMT5]

I have the older style GS II without the intex frame, so this issue isn't an issue for me. I do however have a new G4 Operator with the intex II frame and will have to try putting in my AR and see if I experience the same issue......... if so, I'm gonna be pissed.

Ceylon did have a thread awhile back addressing the updated intex II frame here - http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...stock-gunslinger-ii-feature-mods-factory.html For some reason........ it was never followed up on by Ceylon, as I was following it and hoping for his final review. It makes one wonder how long ago this issue reared it's ugly head, and if it was a known issue, why did they sell them to us and not say something?

 

[pmclaine]

I have the older style GS II without the intex frame, so this issue isn't an issue for me. I do however have a new G4 Operator with the intex II frame and will have to try putting in my AR and see if I experience the same issue......... if so, I'm gonna be pissed.

Ceylon did have a thread awhile back addressing the updated intex II frame here - http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...stock-gunslinger-ii-feature-mods-factory.html For some reason........ it was never followed up on by Ceylon, as I was following it and hoping for his final review. It makes one wonder how long ago this issue reared it's ugly head, and if it was a known issue, why did they sell them to us and not say something?

After experiencing the problem and really looking at the pack to see what was going on, the issue was visible without even having to stick a rifle in the pack. From the side you can see where the cross frame of the Intex pushes the scabbard out of line and this is where my rifle is binding up. Take a good look at you G4 from the side and you should notice it if the problem exists on that design also.

With as many people that have the GSII and sing its praises Im wondering if there was a batch that came out "out of spec". It seems like Drum13 and I received our packs at near the same time (got mine early January, him in December). I don't know where he got his from but I got mine from a forum vendor during a group by offer made back in October or there abouts.

Really cant see how you make a pack out of spec though. the only issue I can figure to screw up would be too much bend in the horizontal section of the Intex which creates the impediment.

 

[fireEMT5]

pmclaine,
I took a closer look at my basically new G4 with the intex II frame and it is exactly as you describe. Fast forward to today, I called Eberlestock and immediately got through to a customer service gentleman. I explained the issue and he too related that they have "heard about this" mainly on AR type weapons with larger hand rails. I inquired if they would somehow warranty these or exchange the intex II for the new frame sheet that was coming out in March. He stated he didn't know the answer to that question, as Glen (the owner) was out of office this week. He did tell me that the replacement sheet would be under $30.00 when they come to market....... so I guess if that's the only remedy, it's not a deal breaker. Hopefully, Eberlestock will offer an exchange or replacement. Time will tell.

 

[drum13]

I had put a call into Eberlestock a few days ago and was told they were not aware of any issues or had any reports of the scabbard issues we are talking about here.

After describing what was going on, they suggested not running the compression straps though the loops on the scabbard. Told them I already tried, it helps a little bit but leaves the main compartment very unstable.

I explained that the major cause was the way the horizontal frame piece was curved facing into the scabbard and also the frame could not be removed without cutting the strap and Velcro tab off. They said that if you pull really hard the Velcro will eventually slide through the buckle. I attempted doing this after getting off the phone but had no luck and stopped trying before anything broke. Doesn't look like it's going to work and if it does - it will be near impossible to put back together in such a tight space.

I didn't mention it, but there's also the load adjusting cinch strap buckles located on top of each shoulder harness, there is no way to reroute them so they can tighten without compressing the scabbard.

A solution to fixing this would be two-part; The 2 load adjusting strap buckles need to be moved to the inside edge of the scabbard (body side) and the 4 compression strap loops need to be relocated to the outside edge of the scabbard (the compartment side).... and obviously the horizontal curved frame piece needs to be straightened.

There was no mention of replacement frames. They took my phone number and said my call will be returned next week after the owner gets back in town.

 

[pmclaine]

FireEmt - Just curious have you tried an AR in your G4 to see if it fits? I hope you dont have this issue. Thank you for the report of your conversation with Eberlestock. I think their communication has been good if there is a problem Im sure they are working on it.

Billy - good design changes. Put your thoughts and my thoughts into production and I will buy that pack.. But that would be hard...more I look at Mystery Ranch......

As an aside got the impulse buy LBT 3 day yesterday - Nice little pack for cheap money. Ill be shooting Sat and Sun assuming no OT. Give a shout if your looking to send your hard earned money down range.

 

[fireEMT5]

pmclaine,

I have not had time to try my 16" AR w/bipod attached on my G4. I hope to get to it this weekend when I have time off and am home. Will also try my Savage 10 PC w/ 20" tube and Atlas bipod attached and report back.

I also asked the gentleman when I had him on the phone about how to take apart the buckle to remove the intex II frame. He stated that I should try pulling the tab really hard and the velcro will come through, or just cut it............ I'm not real wild about destroying my pack to find out just yet. He did state that the new frame sheet will have a slot in it to attach with the same tab, so cutting it doesn't make much sense.

Hopefully Glen will be back to work next week and eventually we'll hear of some resolution or he'll post up here.

I also PM'd Ceylon from DeltaOutdoorsman directing him to this thread. My thought was since he's a hide vendor and sells alot of Eberlestock packs to "us", maybe he'd have some horsepower from a dealer's prespective to help us little guys.

 

[pmclaine]

I also asked the gentleman when I had him on the phone about how to take apart the buckle to remove the intex II frame. He stated that I should try pulling the tab really hard and the velcro will come through, or just cut it............

Hhhhmmmmmm.........One of the reasons Im not inclined to try and return the pack is because I cut the Velcro strap keeper in order to remove the Intex frame but if you are telling me that that is the designed means to remove the frame (and removing the frame is presented as an option designed into the pack) maybe I have grounds to do so.

Really don't want to create headaches for the vendor though, not really his issue.

 

[drum13]

Hey Phil - one of the advertised features of the GSII is the removable frame. I was hoping the pack could double as an airline carry-on (among other uses) with the steel tubing frame removed. And if I'm not mistaken, the removable frame is mentioned on the Eberlestock website as part of new features for the Intex in the GSII.
I'd also go so far to infer a rifle should be easily accessible in the largest sized scabbard they offer in their packs.

I'd love to hit the range this weekend but 11-7 the next few nights and got some family obligations in between that. Need to find some powdah!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pmclaine]

Hey Phil - one of the advertised features of the GSII is the removable frame. I was hoping the pack could double as an airline carry-on (among other uses) with the steel tubing frame removed. And if I'm not mistaken, the removable frame is mentioned on the Eberlestock website as part of new features for the Intex in the GSII.
I'd also go so far to infer a rifle should be easily accessible in the largest sized scabbard they offer in their packs.

I'd love to hit the range this weekend but 11-7 the next few nights and got some family obligations in between that. Need to find some powdah!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Airline carry on is one of the uses listed on the site. Thats where I got the idea to remove the waist belt and stuff it in the pocket where the scabbard bottom tucks in. The removable frame is a feature they specifically mention which is why its odd to have to resort to surgery on your pack to do it.

What are you looking for for powder? A local shop has had some 8208XBR, H335, TAC, IMR 4064 and a few others on the shelf. He is a bit high, approaching $40 per pound. The other sources I got lucky on over the summer that had reasonable prices have dried up. Let me know what you are looking for, excuse my laugh if your reply is Varget.

 

[fireEMT5]

I tried my 16" AR with a T-Pod grip/bipod attached. Also have a light attached to the side, above where the T-Pod is located. I was able to slide the rifle all the way down until the barrel tip reached the bottom of the pouch. I will mention that with the hand grip and a SS 1-6 mounted on top, I had to work to get the top or butt end of the rifle in. It fits with just a little room to spare. I haven't removed my Intex II frame yet. Yes, you can see where the curved bar does push the scabbard out of alignment, but I was able to get my AR and my Savage bolt gun with an Atlas bipod attached in. I'll also note that I have my compression straps run through to compress the scabbard, but for checking this they were unbuckled.

If anything I'd say it's annoying, but it's not a deal breaker for my uses, now that I've tried it. No doubt this issue should have been caught by Eberlestock before any of these shipped out the door.

It will be interesting to see if Eberlestock offers a fix/replacement, or if we'll be stuck and have to try the new frame sheet on our dime.

 

[drum13]

Was this with your Operator model?

With my GSII it's challenging (understatement) to get a 20" Remington 700 w/Harris BP in or out without a having to wrastle it a bit. Pretty fucking embarrassing trying to do it while said pack is geared up on your back.

Thanks for the update.

 

[1slow01z71]

Glad I read this. Depending on how ebersolstock handles their current customers will decide whether I buy from them. I used the old style gunslinger before and it worked well for day hunting and figured the frame version would help even more but its seems its more of a problem than a help. Interested to see what comes of this.

 

[Blowby]

Been using the older non frame GSII and I usually remove the pack and with the side handle lay it on it's side. From that point I pull out the 700. It does not slide in and out smoothly and you have to wiggle the pack as you put it in or pull it out. I have not tried to access the rifle while the pack is mounted and now that I think about it, it would not be pretty.

 

[drum13]

Glad I read this. Depending on how ebersolstock handles their current customers will decide whether I buy from them. I used the old style gunslinger before and it worked well for day hunting and figured the frame version would help even more but its seems its more of a problem than a help. Interested to see what comes of this.

Admittedly the new frame design indeed helps to stabilize a full main compartment - however the concession is that it goatfucks the slick-ass scabbard feature.

Consensus being most purchase these packs to wield rifle in scabbard..... otherwise a surplus ALICE pack could substitute for 270 bucks less.

 

[pmclaine]

I had some free time and looked at my pack again today. If they take a few degrees of bend out of the cross brace there is probably no issue. How that would feel across your back needs to be determined. I look forward to the "Gossamer" frame to see if that is a solution. I looked at what Eberlestock use to offer for a frame (the aluminum rectangle Endo Frame) and all that looks to have done would be to shape the pack. I cant figure how it was stabilized inside the pack as it appears there are no pockets or anything to seat it inside the pack compartment. One guy selling his pack on this forum cut holes and tie wrapped it into the pack (G3)which strikes me as strange. Compared to the Endo Id say the Intex is an improvement, just wish it didn't interfere with my rifle.

Ive been using my GSII as hand luggage without the Intex frame and it is working well getting my stuff to and from the range in one consolidated package. I attached the saddle bags today and now I have a can of spray paint for painting steel (isolated from my other gear incase of a leak), my stock bag and room for ammo on board. I bought a small bag for my bipod and now that rides on the exterior of the pack instead of on a rail which will help with storing the rifle. Not all that much of an ass ache because I have been sharing the bipod between two rifles while I do some load development.

Im most happy that the spotting scope I spent some good money on is now finally getting use on my short range trips rather than only on my all day sessions. Now I just load the rifle in the scabbard and throw the already loaded GSII into the back seat of my car and can do a full gear shoot on the ride home from work. Much easier viewing .22 caliber holes at 60X rather than through 8X binos.

To those sitting on the fence whether or not to buy because of this post you should really check out the pack for yourself. There are more positive reviews of this pack than negative. Maybe its just guys from Massachusetts that have issues with this pack, maybe its only politicians we are capable of putting into office and providing to the country for you all to endure.

Ill be shooting Saturday Billy. Get in touch if your interested in diminishing your powder supply. I sent you a photo of cans of powder from a shop just minutes from the Harvard range. They had on the shelf TAC, 8208XBR, BLC2, IMR 4064, H335 and probably some other powders suitable for either .223 or .308.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I've been following this for awhile now. I have one of these and having been using it for awhile now. I understand what everyone is talking about, there does seem to be a speed bump when inserting the rifle into the scabbard but I never considered it a hinderance. I'm using a rem 700 KRG W3 with a bartlein m24 contour 20" barrel with a harris bipod and a USO LR 17. I've found that lifting up on the ruck from the top while inserting the gun makes it easier to insert, especially when you have a good amount of gear inside the main compartment. Honestly, I never figured I'd have a need to pull the gun out of the ruck while it was still on my back so it's not a concern to me that it does stick a little. I actually carry my ruck with all my crap in it for a good amount of distance and I find the frame does help stabilize the pack and it's quiet comfortable once you get it adjusted to your torso, but then again I've carried an ALICE for 20 yrs so my comfort level is probably different than most. My biggest complaint is that you can't do a rucksack flop with a gun in the scabbard, which leaves taking a knee or removing the ruck in order to sit down on the ground.

I'll have to take a look at the frame on mine and see if bending it slightly might remove the speed bump, lord knows I've bent plenty of ALICE frames in my day in the name of comfort. While I am open to there being a replacement to the tube frame the fact remains that I am skeptical that it will stabilize the ruck the same as a metal frame does, especially with heavy loads. The only other thing I am not too crazy about was mentioned above and that is the way the lid and straps interface with getting into the main compartment. It does seem to be convoluted and not the best design. But with all that said, I still like this ruck better than the other options out there and the other rucks I have. If my Mystery ranch rucks had a built in scabbard I might be singing a different song but thats not the case unfortunately.

 

[usmcmk12]

I have no problem with GS II. I routinely throw an AR .308 with a PRS stock, Atlas Bi Pod, 20" barrel, and Mark 4 on top into my pack and have never had a problem.

 

[fireEMT5]

Was this with your Operator model?

With my GSII it's challenging (understatement) to get a 20" Remington 700 w/Harris BP in or out without a having to wrastle it a bit. Pretty fucking embarrassing trying to do it while said pack is geared up on your back.

Thanks for the update.

Yes, for comparison I used both my AR and my bolt gun. I used my older GS II without an Intex II frame, but with a Endo frame lashed in. I also had a new version G4 Operator with the Intex II frame. I was able to get both guns in both packs. Now don't misunderstand, neither pack takes a rifle like a greased pig. I tried both guns in both packs side by side to get a feel of any differences.

An AR with grip, scope, bipod, & light has protrusions sticking out in several places. Mine likes to hang up at the mouth of the pack where the clips are for the top cover. This has a lot to do with the wide opening of scabbard being only slightly larger than the gun setup I have - this certainly is not an Eberlestock flaw. I have a lot of shit that I put on my rifle to get it the way I want it, so that's on me. However, I can still get it into the scabbard.

My bolt gun with rubber footed Atlas bipod slips in and out much easier. However the rubber feet and size of the folded Atlas no doubt do add some resistance as far as insertion and extraction go.

I must say that I've never expected my rifles to be super easy to remove from the scabbard with the pack loaded, compressed to various levels. To me it's more of having the option to carry the weapon in the scabbard. If we think about it, we have a soft sided scabbard which compresses depending on how the compression straps are routed. Now add in the various things we mount to our weapons in all sorts of shapes in all sorts of places. Add to this whatever items we load into the load bay of the pack. These items can be hard, bulky with their own protrusions. Strap all this in a compressed manner and it should be fairly easy to see that there is plenty of potential for the gun to get bound up. On some level, I expect and accept this to a certain degree.

As for the bend in to cross bar of the Intex II frame, this I believe is a legitimate flaw that hopefully will be addressed. Just by looking as pmclaine pointed out, the curved cross bar does interfere with intended shape and lay of the scabbard. Both of my guns still do insert and withdraw. I haven't had the problems to the extent that he has described, but this is no doubt due to different weapons and the different accessories on them and their shapes.

I will be awaiting the release of the new "back sheet" and standby for reviews on them. The way things are now are going to work just fine for my uses, which is some hunting and going out shooting targets or steel.

As mentioned, I too fiddle with lifting up the load bay or have the pack on it's side and just work my rifle into place and work it out when I need it. I'm not using it on a two way range, or in competition where more speed is absolutely necessary. I still like Eberlestock very much and the packs haul my gear very well. No pack is gonna be perfect.

 

[pmclaine]

My intent was not to crap on Eberlestock and this has not gone that way.

Anyone considering this pack needs to check it out for themselves to see if it will work. The price point is reasonable for what you get and in my case Eberlestock was the only game that offered onboard secure/protected rifle carry. This was the primary feature for what I want to do. I am keeping it as it meets 90% of my goals (hand carry and toss into a vehicle) and will handle the other 10% well enough.

The Intex frame is new and a few users, myself included, are noting a teething problem as it comes into use. Other users are not having an issue. When I say getting the rifle into the pack is a chore Im not talking about I have to wiggle it some (Id be fine with that) Im saying the rail meets the cross brace and comes to a dead stop that would require serious force to seat it properly. LMTs are pigs so maybe the rifle needs a diet.

Perhaps my technique sucks. I did support the Intex on a chair to leave the foot of the scabbard free and accessible. Perhaps I should do as P03 mentions and while the Intex is supporting the weight of the load compartment, insert the rifle, than pull up on the pack strap assembly to try and pull the scabbard open along its entire length. Im still left with the concern though of the rifle rail being "leveraged" against the cross brace.

The fix looks pretty simple as I think taking a little bit of radius out of the cross brace will eliminate the obstruction on the scabbard as well as pressure applied to the rifle fore end. If P03 is able to bend the frame and make it work better I will try same. Looking at it yesterday though I don't think you can bend the cross brace without kinking the tube or forcing the vertical frame members to bow out.

I sent an email to Eberlestock that included a link to this post. I did this when I first posted and their reply was that others have had a similar concern. Who knows they may be following it. This may lead to a change going forward that can accommodate more buyers and the company will profit from the discussion.

I don't want to kick a suppliers bag in (no pun intended) I just want them to provide me/us with better stuff based on information gained from people actually using it.

I thank Eberlestock for considering our needs when it would be more socially acceptable (in some circles) for them to be making bike courier bags with Ipod ear bud ports and carry pockets for a Starbucks Grande'

 

[fireEMT5]

pmc,
I wasn't inferring that you were coming down on Eberlestock, at least I hope you don't think that from my typing. You certainly have an issue with the cross piece and am happy you brought it out in the open for discussion. Hopefully the company takes note and can make some changes or upgrades to their product and we can keep on rolling along with these great packs.

Hopefully the company or a customer will keep us up to date on how this all plays out.

 

[drum13]

Agreed - and emphasized; No intent here to shit on Eberlestock. They're proven producers of quality gear. Attempt is to give members the 411 on shared issues w/the newly designed GSII's.
Apologies for including unconducive opinions, it wasn't fair as the company hasn't had a chance to take action this soon after being made aware.

Undoubtedly most instances when inserting/extracting rifle, the pack is not being worn.... but nifty it would be to have that option to exercise whenever so inclined. Two buds use the Lo-Drag model w.same size scabbard and there's no difficulty doing same - pack on or off.

Considered performing corrective surgery as well. But after further inspection (Phil's correct) it appears that straightening the curve of the cross member will excessively push out the sides of the frame, leaving it too wide to fit back into the channels of the pack.

Now pondering the outcome if that cross member were totally removed from the frame.......?

 

[pmclaine]

pmc,
I wasn't inferring that you were coming down on Eberlestock, at least I hope you don't think that from my typing.

Nope, didn't think so in any way, just hoping it doesn't go that way.

Had Eberlestock told me to go F myself or suggested I was the problem, fine fire away, but they responded, actually offered that they have had complaints, and stated they are looking at options. They are being responsible and I want to see what they come up with.

 

[pmclaine]

Now pondering the outcome if that cross member were totally removed from the frame.......?

You would have to come up with another means to secure the pack in its pocket as the securing strap lashes to the cross brace.

Sure the bottom of the pack will come around and pull the frame in and the weight of the crap will likely hold it in the pocket, but the way my life goes Ill have pack in one hand, rifle in the other, pack top and bottom will be unsecured, Ill be in a hurry and the frame will slide out.

 

[drum13]

You would have to come up with another means to secure the pack in its pocket as the securing strap lashes to the cross brace.

Yep..... forgot about that.

 

[fireEMT5]

Here's to hoping that this new "frame sheet" they have mentioned will cure all ills, by staying out of the way and providing support.

 

[Ryo]

When did they start using the new Intex frame?

 

[fireEMT5]

I believe they they switched over completely some time - late Fall 2013. There were a few colors that were available in the ole style for a bit, but now the GS II and G4 Operator only come with the Intex II frame (according to the Eberlestock website).

 

[pmclaine]

UpDate Reply from Glen Eberle


Hello Phil,


Thank you for your feedback about the new Intex II frame as used in the Gunslinger II and Operator packs. Before fielding the packs, we did extensive testing with various weapons and loads, and although we did recognize that the weapon may "bump" against the frame's cross-bar as it is put into the pack, with a little side-shifting we haven't found any problems or constrictions, etc. However, as with all new things, users may encounter something that we didn't (i.e., the shape of your weapon and accessories may be different than what we've tested with), so as we learn more, we will always work to improve and update the products.

A reality with any new design is that some users will always prefer the old one, until the new type takes precedence and is gotten used to. My own feeling about the Intex II frame is that it's a good thing -- it increases stability and the load bearing properties of the pack without adding meaningful weight or compromising performance. But the key to the new system is that it's modular, and the new alternative/accessory "Gossamer" frames that we'll be fielding shortly will allow you to choose the style that you like best. So, if the tubular aluminum frame is not to your liking, you'll be able to replace it with a slick little polycarbonate frame that will make the pack behave a little more like the older style G2 or G4 (although the Gossamer polycarbonate frame will still be a little stiffer and more structured than the old style polyethylene frame sheets that were used in the earlier model G2s). So if you'll bear with us a little longer, you'll soon be able to customize your pack to make it the flavor that you most prefer. Also of course, we'll continue to refine the geometry of the tubular Intex II frame, now that we're starting to get some constructive feedback about it.

The Gossamer frames will be available in about a month. At that time, if you'd like to send in your Intex II in order to swap it out for a Gossamer, you'll be welcome to do so. Or, if you want to be able to re-rig your pack according to the needs of a different day, then you can simply buy a Gossamer (their retail price will be a nominal $29.95), and then you can switch frames back-and-forth at will.

Thank you for choosing Eberlestock, and I hope that you'll agree that when the full suite of options is available, that we're on a positive track with the new frame design.

Sincerely,










Glen Eberle

Eberlestock
Tel: 208-424-5081
Fax: 208-287-8138

 

[pmclaine]

My reply

Sir,

Thank you for the feed back. Your team has been very responsive. I hope you take my comments as constructive criticism. You offer some great designs at a price point that is reasonable. I did not intend to disparage your product, only make you aware of an issue more than one user is having in case it becomes a problem that starts to wear away the goodwill many express when recommending your gear.

I fully understand that you did not have the chance to test with every firearm out there so hopefully this will help going forward. Looking at the Intex I think taking some of the radius out of the cross member would be perfect. Of course it may look good but in use that may not feel to good against the back. Your testing would determine. If this is a mod you make I would be interested.

My post at SnipersHide chronicles my issue with the pack. I do like the structure the Intex gives to the pack so I am likely to use it when not packing a rifle. I hope the Gossamer is an item that will provide some support to the pack in place of the Intex and allow me to have my rifles accessible. Please consider concerns noted regarding the strap keeper to secure the Intex. If this pack is designed to be modular the destruction required to unstrap the Intex does not make sense.

If you have any sneak peeks of the Gossamer could you please forward them to me or add them to the post at SnipersHide? It would be of interest to those following this issue.

 

[pmclaine]

Phil, attached is a pic of the AG2 Gossamer frame, alongside the Intex II frame. Both will make the pack comfortable and support the load. As you can see, both have a similar profile to control the pack's shape against your back and lumbar. The pack will behave a little bit differently with a heavy load with one versus the other, so in the end, you can begin to see why we've developed a system to allow the user to customize the fit and feel of the pack in a very simple way.


Thanks for your kind words, and for your interest and support.

Glen E.

Glen Eberle

 

[pmclaine]

Sir,

Again thank you for your concern with my pack issues. You are creating a cheerleader with your responsiveness.

The Gossamer looks like it will replace some of the structure I lost when I pulled the Intex. The flat surface shouldnt interfere with my rifle rail when loading the scabbard nor will I be concerned about the cross brace of the Intex acting like a fulcrum putting pressure on my rifle rail.

I like how the Intex creates a tight pack burrito with the tie between the frame, the lower flap and the top pouch. For snowshoeing, day hikes, etc without the rifle Ill want that level of support. I probably wont get that with Gossamer but I only need enough frame so that when I horizontal hand carry the pack the scabbard with rifle is more structurally cojoined to the hauling pack.

I thank you for your efforts to so quickly have a solution tailored to my concerns on hand. Im touched. Ill let you know how it works after I get a chance to try it out.

Best of luck.

Phil M.



REPLY


Thanks Phil. Always good to remember there are real people on both sides of these conversations. For our part, we are truly committed to making the best, uncompromising products that we can make. That is always going to be an evolutionary process, but we're in it for the long haul.


We'll look forward to reconnecting with you in the future.

Very best,


Glen Eberle

 

[pmclaine]

Hey cant say they are not customer responsive. There are more positive reviews of this pack than negative. A few others and I have expressed room for improvement. There is at least one option coming available and it seems that the design of these packs evolves with input from users. Pretty good business in my opinion.

 

[fireEMT5]

By any chance did they address the issue of the clip that holds the intex frame in place being such a task to unthread? Cutting the strap, or breaking the clip seems like a less than ideal option for something that is designed and advertised as being removable and/or with another frame sheet option. A detailed video or step by step instructions on their web site would be extremely helpful. Hopefully Glen will post up on the topic so I don't have to bust or cut something down the road.

 

[pmclaine]

By any chance did they address the issue of the clip that holds the intex frame in place being such a task to unthread? Cutting the strap, or breaking the clip seems like a less than ideal option for something that is designed and advertised as being removable and/or with another frame sheet option. A detailed video or step by step instructions on their web site would be extremely helpful. Hopefully Glen will post up on the topic so I don't have to bust or cut something down the road.

I mentioned it in my emails as well its brought up in this thread which I sent to Eberlestock CS. That should be an easy fix for them but there are probably thousands of these things already shipped.

I cut my strap keeper right where it attaches. When I rolled up the strap I wrapped it around the cut off strap keeper and it still works. Mystery Ranch attaches their keepers through a sewn loop (the strap is folded back to form a loop than the keeper passes through the loop). There is enough strap that secures the Intex that the same could be done or you could just lose the strap keeper and it wouldn't be a big deal.

What would suck is breaking that nylon clip trying to pull the keeper through.

 

[JustPlinking]

Ive got the GS2. My only issue was the clips at the top of the scabbard. Hunting in cold weather I couldn't get them to fasten. I figured it was the 5 degree weather and havent given it much thought since. After reading this thread it reminded me about my issue so I went up and checked. I have no better luck at seventy. Considering cutting the nylon that's around the clips off to see if that helps. Love the pack though. I am happy to see how great the company is to deal with. Customer service goes a long way with me.

 

[Capt Academy]

Wow! I had not seen this post. I just picked up a GS2 pack in mid January, 2014, and have not used it yet. I now will be testing it with my 700 frame rifles and AR platforms. I also purchased my pack from Ceylon.

 

[pmclaine]

Ive got the GS2. My only issue was the clips at the top of the scabbard. Hunting in cold weather I couldn't get them to fasten. I figured it was the 5 degree weather and havent given it much thought since. After reading this thread it reminded me about my issue so I went up and checked. I have no better luck at seventy. Considering cutting the nylon that's around the clips off to see if that helps. Love the pack though. I am happy to see how great the company is to deal with. Customer service goes a long way with me.

Those little "socks" that cover the clips do get in the way when trying to secure. My rifles are carbine length and Ive compounded the problem by folding the buttstock/barrel cover in on itself another time to shorten it up. Now when I want to secure the top cover those "clip condoms" get fouled in the loop that secures the cover strap. I want to obscure the rifle from view so I deal with it. Being ungloved for securing really helps.

Initially I thought the little "socks" were a solution to a nonexistant problem but I think the idea is that for users not using the butt/barrel cover they can secure clip to clip across the scabbard opening, which secures the rifle in the scabbard, and the nylon clips will be protected from rubbing against your rifle finish.

They did put some thought into the details which really confuses me when I consider the Intex securing strap requiring surgery. Well cant think of everything, I guess they are human.

 

[veeshooter]

tagged

 

[jmcneil]

tagged