Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

[bterry]

Looking for courses of action to bring forward to up grade our current sniper rifles. Budget unknown, current rifles and optics are 15 years old (Rem 700 308 with Leupold VX-1 with Duplex), round count on barrels unknown, stocks in good shape but bedding unknown, our optics are just plain old.

1. COA for rebarreling what we have. Approx. costs.
2. COA for rebarreling, new adjustable stock, new optics. Approx. costs.
2. COA for buying a complete package. Cost, recommended company to use and why, turn around time, etc...

If you've been through this situation in your agency, I'd appreciate any helpful information that I can put it on paper. I'm not looking for top of the line stuff, I know I won't get that kind of money, we're a small Sheriff's Department. Thanks.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

What is your estimated budget?

I know you said "unknown" but you must have an idea. I can make all kind of recommendations, but that won't do you any good if it's well outside of your budget. It also won't do you well for me to make recommendations that won't fully utilize what you have available.

Lastly, how do your rifles shoot now?

 

[Katahdin]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

First I would get a no-go gauge and check and see if the barrels are still within spec since you don't know a round count. They're about $40 dollars and you get them from places like Brownell's, plus you get an LE discount from them.

You can't really fix something unless you know whats broke. Like lone wolf said we need more info, how many rifles, how many certified snipers do you have, conditions of rifles (are any inoperable right now), conditions of glass (do they hold zero, track properly, etc.)

Also do your 700's have the factory detachable magazine or BDL floorplate?

 

[gathumper]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Send me a private message.

 

[bterry]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Rifles are 15 years old, two of the four still hold 1 MOA, the other two rifles about 1 1/2 MOA. Barrels have never been taken off the stock as far as we know and have about three coats of paint on them.

I'm not going to waste money on a no-go gauge, it's time to either rework these rifles or buy new ones.

Not looking for exact details, just estimations if you have them.

 

[sinister]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Find a gunsmith with a borescope -- he can tell you the internal condition of the barrels, and coupled with your observations on accuracy or lack thereof can tell you whether or not you NEED re-barreling and overhaul.

Chronological age has nothing to do with functionality and serviceability.

It might make more sense to re-work the two that group bigger than 1.5-MOA now, and phase the others in later -- but then you seem to be in an all-or-nothing mood.

 

[Busby.]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

What part of NC are you in?

 

[Graham]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Because you are an LE sniper team leader you know that budget is the starting point for what you are suggesting. If you make a wide variety of suggestions to management, on paper and without a financial commitment, will the likely result be in the best interests of the team?

 

[fdkay]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Many variables here.

You have good actions to build on.

If you were to contact Hart barrels, they would true your action amd install one of their fine barrels for somewhere around 700 per rifle.

A B&C fully adjustable stock, or an HS precision adjustable stock will run 450 - 520.

Personally, I would opt for a fixed stock, fewer movimg parts to fail and your shooters won't be continually dicking with the stocks.

A better, though much more expensive option is the AICS. About 870 for a fixed stock.

If you were to replace the barrels, true the actions and go with a B&C M40 style fixed stock, you are talking about 900 per rifle.

If you were to but new 700P rifles, about 850 per.

The trued rifles with quality barrel will be far superior rifles.

If your rifles are 15+ years old, they have a very good trigger in them, if you were to buy a new 700P, LTR or 5R, they would come with the new x marl pro trigger.
It is serviceable, but not great.

So, in a nutshell, to upgrade your rifles, figure 900. To replace your rifles with an off the shelf Remington system, figure 850. I would go the upgrade route.

There are other options.
Kimber 8400 tactical, base model is about 1500.

TRG 42, top shelf rifle made from ground up as sniper rifle, about 2500.

AI AE, just about the industry standard for off the shelf systems, about 3100, the AW is even better, nut pricier.

Glass:
This is one of the hardes items to convince them to spend money on. One of the local departments here was using an 80 dollar bushnell.
The bushnell tactical FFP 3-12, about 800.

Look to NF if they are willing to pony up, I went IOR which is another good option.

figure at least 800 for glass.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Factory rifles that shoot 1-1.5 MOA for LE?

Whats wrong with them? I fail to see why the need to replace and/or rebuild them unless you have money to spend.

I think, if I was running your department, I'd spend the funds on training/practice.

I have a Rem Factory M-700 BDL Varment I set up in 1978 for LE. I based the set up on recommendations from the AMU Sniper Program. That rifle still shoots under 1.5. We're both retired now, but if I was back in the game I wouldn't have any quams of relying on it to do the job required by LE Sniper/Counter Snipers.

Look at it this way: A 1.5 moa rifle is capable of keep all shots in a 6 inch circle up to 400 yards. That means you should be able to get head shots at that range, much farther then the normal LE sniper shot calls for. I'd be more concerned that the officers can keep their shots on a head size target to, lets say 300 yards. That comes with training and practice, not spending money on fancy equipment.

Change for Change Sake is not very cost effective in today's economy.

I still do a bit of Sniper Training for LE. I'm suppose to put on a course for Home Land Security on the Coast later this fall. You same question was presented to me when we talked about the program. My recommendation was to hold off, to see if there was really anything wrong with what they have and are using now. And the feds have a much larger budget they your department I'm sure.

 

[SRT80]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Just went through the same situation with my department. I suggest that you converse with Lone Wolf some. He answered a lot of my questions. There are a few others here that helped also. I also come from a small SRT team and with a short budget put together a real good rifle.

 

[Northland]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Sent you a PM

 

[bterry]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

Thanks for the PM's, appreciate everyone that responded in getting me some great information. Putting something like this on paper, that can answer their questions without their jaw hitting the ground, is the biggest challenge I face.

 

[USAF SP]

Re: Question for LE Sniper Team Leaders

I have experience dealing with similar issues and it sounds like our members here are providing you with some great info. Without going out to far on a limb here I have to assume you also have bigger issues to handle. I'll bet your rifles are fine and will serve your needs after some TLC. You also need to focus on:

Quality Optics and night vision: not just on the rifle but binos and spotting scopes

Ammo: you will need to spend more $ on ammo over the next few years then new rifles will cost

Training funds: sending your teams to one or more schools to train them up is a large expense. Need to also budget in replacement as team members rotate out

Quality commo gear is a top priority

Lots of range time (may need to pay overtime/shift differential)

Tons of associated gear: foul weather gear, various cammo uniforms, tools, etc

In my experience the rifles were always the least of my worries. Hope this helps and best of luck working through this.

Rich