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Question on sales etiquette

bachelorjack

bachelorjack

Retired Pirate of Leisure
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Sep 10, 2007
    1,916
    771
    Columbia, SC
    www.snipershide.com
    This is a first.

    Member works a deal to buy some parts.

    Member sends over his address after being given PayPal info and instructions to do so.

    PayPal comes from another guys name.

    Member states when asked that payment was from a 3rd party our member just sold some stuff to.

    I refunded random 3rd party. Terminated deal and told member to fuck off.

    Is this against the rules? Do we need to add it?
     
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    I wouldn't think there would be way to make it against the rules for payment to come from someone other than the buyer. Would be kind of hard to police and would be a dumb rule anyway that would exclude a lot of buyers.

    I've had lots of deals where the buyer didn't use Paypal, their Paypal is shut down, or the guy's wife sent paypal from her account for the buyer. I've let my brother use my Paypal countless times because he doesn't do the Paypal thing either. And I've used friends and lots of family members Paypal over the years for various things. As long as the buyer is authorized, what does it matter? Are you verifying every transaction to make sure the person is the name they give? Are you asking for ID from every buyer to make sure the name they give with shipping info is really them, and then matching it up with their Paypal or Venmo? I doubt it. If I hack your paypal, and also give your name and my address, that proposed rule wouldn't stop any fraud. I would think anyone that automatically rejected payment based on that (proposed rule) was a jackass. You might have a valid reason in this specific case, but a blanket rule would be ridiculous.

    I guess as a seller I would just go case by case and make a judgement call. But I've never backed out of a deal or refunded $ because the payment didn't match the buyer's name.
     
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    @SniperBro
    You would be okay with it coming from your buyers buyer? If their deal has issues you are okay with his buyer coming after his money? The money that was sent to you instead?

    We aren't talking about your wife, girlfriend, tech superstar kid or buddy.

    Specifically some other guy from another deal who's only recourse is to collect from you.
     
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    bachelorjack said:
    @SniperBro
    You would be okay with it coming from your buyers buyer? If their deal has issues you are okay with his buyer coming after his money? The money that was sent to you instead?

    We aren't talking about your wife, girlfriend, tech superstar kid or buddy.

    Specifically some other guy from another deal who's only recourse is to collect from you.
    Click to expand...
    I would prefer not, but I would also consider them separate deals. So you would take any issue up with whoever you purchased from. I think that's standard. If I bought something from you, and paid someone else bc you owed them, I'm not going after them if there's an issue...? Not saying what he did is best practice, clearly not.

    But I also don't see a way of verifying, by nature of reading two different names, if it's his brother, his friend or his buyer. How would a rule help that? What would the rule say? Plus what you mentioned is so uncommon that it probably doesn't need a rule. Probably the seller making a determination on a case by case basis is proper.

    I did also mention that you might have a good reason in your case, in case you missed that. My issue would be with a rule, because it couldn't solve this very rare, specific issue, without putting a damper on the other scenarios I mentioned.
     
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    No, we don’t need more rules. We are already where we are in the PX because people couldn’t conduct their business as adults. Conduct your business as an adult and you’ll be fine. Sales are at sellers discretion. That’s the rule.
     
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    If I knew both players and was comfortable with both, no problem (have done it before). In this case the party in your deal should have at least informed you in advance (as mine had) so there was no surprise.

    Termination of deal was appropriate.
     
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    bachelorjack said:
    @SniperBro
    You would be okay with it coming from your buyers buyer? If their deal has issues you are okay with his buyer coming after his money? The money that was sent to you instead?

    We aren't talking about your wife, girlfriend, tech superstar kid or buddy.

    Specifically some other guy from another deal who's only recourse is to collect from you.
    Click to expand...
    Not only no, but fuck no.

    Too many unknowns for me to be comfortable with that. And knowing that PayPal will yank those funds from you with almost zero recourse, yeah no.
     
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    You’re still a douchebag

    You got the payment f and f PayPal then bitch where it comes from.

    Your shit was over priced as is. Then add in paypl
    Fee for non linked accounts it’s made more sense for @wade2big to send magazine purchase payment to you and cut me out.
     
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    BurtG said:
    You’re still a douchebag

    You got the payment f and f PayPal then bitch where it comes from.

    Your shit was over priced as is. Then add in paypl
    Fee for non linked accounts it’s made more sense for @wade2big to send magazine purchase payment to you and cut me out.
    Click to expand...

    That post is sure going to help you "win friends and influence people"...

    LOLOLOLOLOL

    Endless LOL's on the daily in the pit...
     
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    I won't mail stuff (at least dangerous stuff) to other addresses, very different names etc. Too much weird fraud stuff, but it rarely comes up to me. I will always (for forum sales etc, not talking eBay) only send to the address sent over PM. If the PP account has a different address: DNGAF. Not mailing it there. A change of address at this point... I haven't had but would be approaching cancel of sale. But that's about all that would trip me over.

    Payment? I mean, does the LGS deny the sale if the husband fills out the 4473 but the wife pulls out the credit card to pay? Lots of business PP accounts, wife's PP account, women who got married and changed their name but PP and banks have trouble with that so maiden name, etc. etc into infinity. Way too much to track so lacking other flags, payment doesn't overly bug me.
     
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    wade2big said:
    So does this mean I’m not getting my mags? 😞
    Click to expand...
    New Patreon Rewards Structure! – incompetech
     
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    ive had this happen a few times

    ill use one email address to contact the guy, then ill reply by text and then use my wife's paypal or something etc

    knowing its getting muddy, ill inform the seller of the "mess" via phone call and they are usually ok

    i can see it both ways...lots of stolen identities and stolen accounts out there etc
     
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    Paypal won't yank FF funds ever. I've tried before (not even for a scam), and they refused. If they reversed those transactions, FF scams wouldn't be a thing, but they are.

    It's all relative. If it seems sketchy, yeah shut it down if that makes you sleep better. If not, shutting it down is probably overly dramatic as that wouldn't hardly ever be a scam if you've talk to the person for more than five minutes and know what's going on. Seller's discretion like everything else on here.
     
    bachelorjack said:
    This is a first.

    Member works a deal to buy some parts.

    Member sends over his address after being given PayPal info and instructions to do so.

    PayPal comes from another guys name.

    Member states when asked that payment was from a 3rd party our member just sold some stuff to.

    I refunded random 3rd party. Terminated deal and told member to fuck off.

    Is this against the rules? Do we need to add it?
    Click to expand...

    The long standing site rules say either party to the deal can back out anytime they feel uncomfortable with the deal.

    On the charitable side, this guy could be just a standard ham fisted tax avoider.
    However the fact that he never told you in advance it was going to come from another person automatically raises a huge flag.

    Even if the guy was as above, it's probably a good thing to just refund the money and walk away.

    The reason being is that you are now essentially the co-signer and guarantor of entire deal the other two people did and if anyone ever has a problem, you are quite possible going to be completely screwed and be out your item, the money and possibly even more money or problems.
    Not worth it, not your circus, not your monkeys, move on.


    Now on a not so charitable side:
    That is a very common tactic to make folks be unsuspecting money mules.
    Fraudster scams someone but has them pay you, then buys something valuable and legit from you, which you ship them.
    Fraudster now actually has a legit item that they can sell for good money and is long gone by the time you find someone is trying to claw back the payment for fraud, or the police show up and start talking to you about how come you are part of this scam money laundering chain.


    Without knowing both of the other people really well and trusting them a lot, you were right to simply return money to sender and walk away.
     
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    “What is the scam”? That is fucking classic. I have been running an e-commerce for over 20 years. The scams I have seen would blow your mind. I have been using PP for almost 25 years. It is the devil’s love-nest when it comes to scams.

    They specialize in people who think “This couldn’t possibly be a scam“ ……. Red flags get orders canceled, PERIOD.

    The best mitigation is to explain the situation BEFOREHAND this makes you look a lot less like a scammer. I’ll assume @BurtG had the good sense and manners to do so.

    If not, the OP did the exact right thing.

    If it were me, I would have known that @BurtG was an established member and made an EXCEPTION.

    That said, people have a right to protect themselves from scammers. No one is taking up a collection if you get scammed. In e-commerce paranoia is like seasoning, a little goes a long ways…….
     
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    Max said:
    “What is the scam”? That is fucking classic. I have been running an e-commerce for over 20 years. The scams I have seen would blow your mind. I have been using PP for almost 25 years. It is the devil’s love-nest when it comes to scams.

    They specialize in people who think “This couldn’t possibly be a scam“ ……. Red flags get orders canceled, PERIOD.

    The best mitigation is to explain the situation BEFOREHAND this makes you look a lot less like a scammer. I’ll assume @BurtG had the good sense and manners to do so.

    If not, the OP did the exact right thing.

    If it were me, I would have known that @BurtG was an established member and made an EXCEPTION.

    That said, people have a right to protect themselves from scammers. No one is taking up a collection if you get scammed. In e-commerce paranoia is like seasoning, a little goes a long ways…….
    Click to expand...
    The right thing ended AFTER he used his discretion to end the sale.
    Making a thread about it and asking for more rules is where it ceased to be the right thing, and instead made him look like a gigantic nerd.

    If all of us made a thread each time we avoided a potential scam, we could have a subforum dedicated to it.

    I'm sure his next thread will be about how he got an email saying his paypal account was compromised, and he didn't click on the link to confirm his identity, and how we need a new rule because of it.
     
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    If I was made aware of the circumstances during the initial phases of the deal, no problem (especially considering it involved a couple guys who'd been here for a while and are well-known).

    If this is something that gets dropped on me at the end, it's gonna set off red flags and cause me to terminate the deal.

    A bit of communication goes a long ways.
     
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    First of all: why were you doing friends and family on PayPal?

    If it was your idea, you're a douche, If you agreed to it, you're a douche.

    Canceling deal without asking for explanation: See above.

    As far as being "gay": ........
     
    PayPal FF isn’t the issue here lol. Many of us use it on here all the time. I’d bet it’s actually the number one type of transaction in the PX. But if this is all it takes to get cold feet and run dealing with an established forum member, then yeah, maybe he should just steer clear of it altogether.
     
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    cooper barrett said:
    First of all: why were you doing friends and family on PayPal?
    Click to expand...

    Because a lot of folks are not interested in having to pay a 3% tax to a corporation that hates us when you don't really need to.
    That fake "security blanket" costs you good money and good luck with your account if you ever call them up and whine about the guns / scopes / gun parts you bought not being correct.

    Do you really actually want to be funding your enemies when you can simply get the job done nearly for free?
     
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    You fuckers make the simplest shit so complicated.

    Here is the deal STATE YOUR FUCKING TERMS IN YOUR FUCKING SALES POST!

    What the fuck is so hard about that?

    For the OP here’s how yours should have read!

    “For payment I will only accept PP FF and name must match up to shipping name”

    We don’t need any more fucking rules just because you won’t accept names not matching doesn’t mean other guys aren’t willing to accept the risk!
     
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    I know BurtG personally and he’s a total dick, but I love him to bits. We spoon off-forum almost daily. He’s my early warning system for knowing how close I am to being raided. Once he goes radio silent, I know it’s time for me to move to Antarctica.
     
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