This is my first post and I am a Rookie at this game, so please take it easy on me. I have access to a 1000 yard range with a sturdy shooting bench 45 minutes from my house, but can only get a 25 yard shot at a target at my house before I go to the big range. I know it is best to zero at 100 yards, but if i cant and I enter all the correct info into the Hornady 4DOF calculator using the 25 yard zero can I expect the moa figures to be close at 100 yard intervals out to 1000? I am shooting .300RSAUM model 700 with ELDM 155 bullets at 3175 according to my chrono. The chart says -3.37 moa at 100, -2.21 at 200, and -.38 at 300 before needing dial up of 1.79 moa at 400. This means i should be shooting 6 inches high at 100, 4 inches high at 200 before getting back real close to zero at 300? Thanks
- Thread starter LaGrange
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I do this a lot. I boresight at home at 25 then when I get to the range I can get on paper at 100 super fast and zero in less than 5 shots normally
First off why do you want a 300 yard zero? That does nothing for you at all.
What I think you are saying is that the bullet path is not a straight line. It's like a rainbow. Where the flight path of the bullet crosses back into your 'zero setting' is between 300 and 350 yards.
What I would do is get a 25 yard zero. Take the tools needed to adjust the elevation turret with you to the long range so you can set the turret at a 100 yard zero once it's confirmed.
When you get to the long range put a target out at 100 yards and click down 3.37 moa and confirm before resetting your turret to a 100 yard zero. You should be hitting about 3.5 inches high at 100 yards if you are using a 25 yard zero.
How about you set 25 yards at 3.5 inches low and set the turret to reflect that.
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You have two options:
- plug 25yd zero into your software and roll with it. This however would end up making some of your dope being dialed up and down, not just up like 100yds.
- plug 100yd zero into software. Zero rifle @ 25. Then have your software tell you what your dope is. Then loosen the turret screws and set it to that door.
For example, a quick software input of a Berger 109 @ 2850fps. With 100yd zero gives me dope as 1.2mil up.
So, I would zero the rifle at 25yds. Then loosen my turret and set it to 1.2mil. Then tighten the screws.
When I dial back down to zero, I’m now back at 100yds.
- plug 25yd zero into your software and roll with it. This however would end up making some of your dope being dialed up and down, not just up like 100yds.
- plug 100yd zero into software. Zero rifle @ 25. Then have your software tell you what your dope is. Then loosen the turret screws and set it to that door.
For example, a quick software input of a Berger 109 @ 2850fps. With 100yd zero gives me dope as 1.2mil up.
So, I would zero the rifle at 25yds. Then loosen my turret and set it to 1.2mil. Then tighten the screws.
When I dial back down to zero, I’m now back at 100yds.
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Either method may be hit or miss if you haven’t trued your software at distance.
But, once you have trued the software to your ammo lot and barrel (be it loaded or factory ammo), and you are restricted to non 100 zero, you can use both methods above and it will work. Again, as long as you trued things correctly.
I would personally recommend option 2 and work off 100yd zero.
But, once you have trued the software to your ammo lot and barrel (be it loaded or factory ammo), and you are restricted to non 100 zero, you can use both methods above and it will work. Again, as long as you trued things correctly.
I would personally recommend option 2 and work off 100yd zero.
There's some gross conceptual errors going on here.
Set your 4DOF to a 100 yd zero and let it tell you the 25 yd offset in MOA or mils, whichever your scope adjusts in.
Shoot at 25 yd and adjust your scope so that the bullet is impacting at the correct offset from point of aim. Use the scope reticle to measure in MOA or mils (whichever you have). Forget thinking in inches.
Got to 100 yards and adjust so POA = POI. That is your zero from now until forever.
Adjust the elevation turret to the required number of mils or MOA required to hit at whatever distance you want.
Stop thinking about bullet trajectory in inches.
Follow @308pirate ‘s advice, it’s good.
One thing you may or may not run into is your scopes ability to have good parallax at 25. Definitely treat that zero at 25 as a rough zero, and refine it at the big range.
One thing you may or may not run into is your scopes ability to have good parallax at 25. Definitely treat that zero at 25 as a rough zero, and refine it at the big range.
No, once i get to the big range i can set targets up at any distance out to 1000 max yardage. It is actually a big corn field
Ok good, if you zero at home @25, you should set up a 100y and confirm zero you will be on paper and relatively close couple of mils. Off your poa vertically.
Then you are locked for any distance using your solver.
Edit - just read above do what @308pirate said.
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Bravo!! You get a free single malt
PM inbound with mailing address......
A couple of thoughts for OP as a newbie...
- Another vote for following 308Pirate's advice in post #10. The biggest caveat with this is trying to "zero" at 25 yards would be rather like trying to draw a straight line 10 feet long using a 2-inch-long ruler - 25 yards is Really Close. So, as he advised, your final zero will be established using an actual target at an actual 100 yards.
- Eliminate the use of linear measurements when it comes to describing POA / POI differences - you want to use the subtensions in your scope reticle, as I described in an earlier SH post here. This issue arises a lot with new shooters... I had to learn why we want to use angular measurements (milrads or MOA; the latter will garner derision here just because... o never mind) instread of linear (inches, millimeters, etc).
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FWIW, the fact that 25yds is “close” is not a reason we use 100yds. 100yds is a distance where there is very small wind influence, as well as all the adjustments being up. As well as parallax restrictions on some optics.
You could zero the rifle at 25yds, plug that into your software, and roll on no problems at all.
You could zero the rifle at 25yds, plug that into your software, and roll on no problems at all.
I agree with what you say, up to a point. Obviously, a tiny zeroing error at 25 yards multiplies with distance. I would predict that, if OP sets a 25-yard zero in his calculator and his POI/POA are mismatched by less than half a bullet's diameter, he will see that his POI will be different from POA at 100 and diverge more with distance. I say this based on my having used a variation of 308Pirate's approach in mounting a new scope and firing first shots at 25 yards just to insure I'd be "close" at 100. My POI was over a full mil from POA at 100; of course, all I wanted was to be on the paper at 100, not to set a precise zero, so I wasn't trying to achieve a precise POI/POA match at 25.
you got 1k yard range at your house and you have not thought to send blank invites to all you fellow shooters . talk about not thinking of others lol .
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That’s why you don’t use groups to zero at close ranges. Just like with Rimfire.
You verify with single shots on single pasties or whatever you are aiming at.
Also, fwiw, most people don’t actually have a true zero @ 100yds. That’s why you see pics of .3moa groups, but today it’s at 1 o’clock and tomorrow it’s at 7 o’clock.
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Also, it’s angular. Many people with mil turrets are zero’d between clicks. And most don’t use the zero offset function to remedy this. Works out fine for practical/steel shooting.
You wouldn’t be missing because of a 1/2 bullet diameter offset @ 25yds.
1moa @ 25 yds = .262
1/2 moa = .131
1/2 of .243 = .122
.122 = .47 moa
Half a bullet is .47 moa which is less that .2 mil.
You wouldn’t be missing because of a 1/2 bullet diameter offset @ 25yds.
1moa @ 25 yds = .262
1/2 moa = .131
1/2 of .243 = .122
.122 = .47 moa
Half a bullet is .47 moa which is less that .2 mil.
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Yeah, well, that's just a technicality..... "But look at my groups!"
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For the record, I’m in agreement with 308’s post.
Just pointing out that in the case that you have trued data such as your BC or custom drag, and you’re forced to zero at say 25 or 50, you can just roll on. There will be no detriment to your ability to perform.
For example:
I am extremely confident the AB CDC for 109 Berger works with my actual MV from chrono.
If I only had 25 or 50yd to zero and had to go to a match the morning of that didn’t offer zero time (yes there are some matches that still don’t offer a zero range) or for some reason couldn’t zero @ 100yds
I would have zero doubts in my data.
Obviously you already have other issues if you haven’t been able to true data on your rifle/loads, or you don’t zero properly @ <insert any distance here>
Also, this doesn’t apply inversely to “zeros” greater than 100yds. As the environment will matter more the further you go and won’t be much of a zero as it is “dope for the day or situation” you shot in.
Don't even worry about shooting a 25yd zero before heading out.
Just set your target up at 100yd when you get to the cornfield, quickly bore sight it, shoot a group and adjust your turrets accordingly. The whole process only takes 5 mins and 3-5 rounds of ammo.
I see people randomly twisting dials and freaking out all the time at my range about having to zero their rifles and how much ammo they burn through in the process, but after helping them through it, they realise it really is very quick and simple to do.
Just set your target up at 100yd when you get to the cornfield, quickly bore sight it, shoot a group and adjust your turrets accordingly. The whole process only takes 5 mins and 3-5 rounds of ammo.
I see people randomly twisting dials and freaking out all the time at my range about having to zero their rifles and how much ammo they burn through in the process, but after helping them through it, they realise it really is very quick and simple to do.
A lot of the above is good advice. However, if you can set up targets at any distance out to 1000 what you’re talking about OP is a mute point. Just do it on the day you go out there. Set up targets at 25 or 50, and 100. Bore sight at 25/50 real quick, shoot 1 round, make the appropriate adjustment to center punch your POA, shoot another round to confirm. Plug into ballistics app and dial correction for 100. Shoot a round at your 100 yard target. Dial in your zero. Shoot a 3 round group to confirm. Measure your offset. Plug new data/zero into ballistics app. Shoot out as far as you can. Whole process will be 3-7 rounds, less than 5-10 minutes once you start shooting, and beats setting things up twice.
Why are you chasing out to your final zero distance by shooting 25/50yds first?
Why not just just bore sight and shoot a group at your final zero distance straight off the bat?
Cause he’s shooting into a flat cornfield and he’s a new shooter, and chances are he might not be on target after bore sighting at 100 and he might not be able to spot his miss. You could use either 25 or 50. I’m not saying use both, but either one are easier to be on target when boresighting than at 100…especially being new to shooting.
Download strelok on your phone get the pro version then input your rifle info, Ammo, And scope information. And lastly you need to measure the scope Pike from the bore to the middle of the Eyepiece. Then Zero the rifle of 25 yards and reset the terrets, Then all you do is plug 100 in to the computer and dale elevation down which in this case would be 4.4 moa or 1.3 mils Or to make it completely full proof they also show you the number of clicks so in this case you were dial down 18 clicks then all you do, is reset the terrace again to zero go back into the strelok and change 0 to 100 and you’re all set it’s really that simple then you also have to remember that the information is only good for that ammo if you’re going to run a different ammo you need to add an additional ammo selection into the computer otherwise it’ll be off then from there you need to shoot the 200 300 400 whatever distances the range has and doing this as you go out further the computer calculated elevation may be off a little so they say and told you dial of six Mils but it actually needs to be 6.2 mils You write this information down and then input the correct number into the history log and it’s now correct but you’re essentially doing is creating a Dope chart, so once you have all your figures you write them down on a little card and the next time you’re at that range easily pulled out dialing whatever your distances and should be right on the money. I don’t know where you live but I’m sure if you do a Sergio find courses are. You could take a simple 16 hour today long range course and walk away with your rifle all set up and be at a whole new level as when they do the set up will use an actual chronometer to give you exact ballistics figures as you find the factory stated velocity can be wildly different from reality depending on temperature and humidity is atmospheric conditions how do we taking into account if it’s 95° outside for instance you might want to use the factory ammo specs of The factory ammo that state maybe the figures were based at a temperature of 65° and so on
Oh and also did you level out your scope when you installed it as your reticle being just a hair off turns into a huge problem as distance increases.
So many people try to guess their way through this that it only complicates matters and said you back worse than when you started. Anyway hope the info helps let me know what happens
Not an issue if the reticle is level/plumb to gravity when shooting....
UPDATE---- It has been 1 year since I made this post and after researching decided to switch to 178 gr ELDM at 2805 fps. Took my gun to a friends farm that has a 100 yard range and zeroed a few days ago at 100 and ran me a dope chart on the Hornady 4DOF. Went to the big range I have access to (cut corn field ) at noon today since conditions were really good and set a target up at 300. Dialed in 4 moa the chart called for and was about 6 inches high. Moved target to 500 and dialed up what the chart said and hit 6 inches low. Moved target to 750 and hit a foot high. Moved target to 1000 and chart called for 32 moa elevation but I only dialed up 30. Hit 12 inches high on first shot at 1000 finally. Had a 5mph left to right wind and I dialed in windage of 2 moa at the beginning and had 4moa dialed up at the 750 and 1000 yard shots. Took 4 shots and had 4 hits. Although this is not quite 1 moa shooting, I thought this was pretty decent for an off the shelf hunting rifle with a Timney trigger upgrade.. Gun kicks like a borrowed government mule.
