Rifle Scopes Quick Comparison: ACOG TA-11J vs. Elcan SpecterDR *PIC HEAVY*

[Luke]

I just bought an ACOG 3.5x35 TA-11J and my buddy just bought an Elcan 1x:4x32 SpecterDR. So which one of us has buyers remorse? I'll let the pictures do the talking...

TA-11J: $1324 (Trijicon 3.5x35 Acog Rifle Scope)
SpecterDR: $2184 (Elcan 1x/4x SpecterDR Optical Sight)

Spot the coyote?

1x with Killflash

1x without Killflash

 

[Luke]

2nd from brightest red dot level

Max brightness (equal to an Aimpoint...very daylight visible)

No discernible distortion between 1x and naked eye

Elcan BUIS

 

[Cobracutter]

Both poor scopes IMO. Not a fan of either.

The eclan is a hunk of overpriced shit. Great glass, but heavy, unreliabile, shifting POI and a bunch of other issues. Proof that glass isint everything. Any quality 1-6/1-8 makes it obsolete.

The TA11 is a great optic, just poor choice in reticles. Cant take advantage of BAC. Run a Horsheoe/chevron TA11 and you will be amazed how fast they are up close. Glorified 3.5x crosshair scope. For the same money you could have had a 1-4NF, 1-6 Razor, 1-6 SWFA or a better reticle that's more versitile. Ta-33 is also a great alternitive for $500 less. Same ER, slightly less power and FOV, but MUCH lighter.

 

[Luke]

The Elcan is (surprisingly) only 5oz heavier than the TA-11. Considering the fact that it is a respectable 1x CQB optic & 4x intermediate optic in one compact package, that's pretty reasonable. As far as reliability, that's yet to be seen. Plenty of people on the interwebs complaining about them, and just as many guys in the military successfully killing dudes with them.

I never intend to use the ACOG as a CQB optic so I wasn't concerned about the BAC stuff. I prefer the crosshair for longer engagement ranges over the chevron/horseshoe. I like the TA-33, but opted for the TA-11 in favor of the greater FOV, power, and reticle. Different strokes for different folks...

 

[Clusterfrack]

Thanks for posting this comparison, Luke. From what I've experienced and read, the newer Elcans do not have the problems some of the earlier ones did. My Specter DR holds zero and does not have a significant shift between 1 and 4x. I have not treated my unit gently.

I don't agree with CC that the 1-4NF, 1-6 Razor, 1-6 SWFA are superior optically or mechanically. Not even close.

As you point out, the weight of the DR is less than many low power scopes with mount.

In his recent review of the Specter DR, Big Jim Fish wrote "There is little doubt in my mind that I would rather be deployed with one of these than an ACOG, red dot, or some combination of those. It is worth the extra 10 or so ounces. The Specter DR ranks very high on my list of 1-x scopes. It is both truly unique and excellent."

Here's a recent review of the Specter DR on a Tavor.

 

[CSTactical]

That is some Great INFO. I really like the Trijicons optics but I love the ELCAN Specter DR scopes.


Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[Bevan]

I love my SpecterDR but I wish that:

1: It was lighter
2: The centre dot was finer. 1.5moa on 4x and 6moa on 1x is very fat. I would prefer 1moa/4moa.
3: The rest of the reticle was a little finer
4: There were better mounting options
5: It was lighter

 

[Luke]

For target shooting I could see how a thinner reticle on the Elcan could be better, but for a battle optic I think it's just about right. In a dark & cluttered background the finer reticle on the TA11 gets lost pretty easily.

Let's play a little "what if" game - Picture yourself humping 80lbs of crap down a goat track in Afghanistan when rounds starts snapping past your head. You book it 100yds to the nearest cover, you're breathing hard, heart pounding in your ears, and sweat dripping in your eyes, the SAW gunner is kicking up dust in your eyes, and you look up just in time to see Terry Taliban start breaking contact through the scraggly brush and rocks across the valley. You need to be putting effective fire on his ass before he's gone and now you're trying to pick up the tiny little 500m BDC line in the midst of all the other crap going on. Now that fine reticle is kicking your ass.

Granted for 97% of us we'll never be in that situation and a finer reticle will tighten up our groups. Definitely no right or wrong answer...

 

[Bevan]

in that situation: good thing I've got a daylight visible illuminated reticle!


but for my uses, I'm never going to be in that situation so it's not relevant, I want a civilian version made - lighter and with a reticle that allows slightly more precise aim, for hunting and competition. The 1.5moa centre dot isn't that bad anyway, I am just upset with it because my AR currently has a shit barrel that won't group well. I'm sure I'll be happy again once I get the new barrel I have on order. The main problem is that the weight unbalances a light gun somewhat.

 

[dangerdan87]

Both poor scopes IMO. Not a fan of either.

The eclan is a hunk of overpriced shit. Great glass, but heavy, unreliabile, shifting POI and a bunch of other issues. Proof that glass isint everything. Any quality 1-6/1-8 makes it obsolete.

The TA11 is a great optic, just poor choice in reticles. Cant take advantage of BAC. Run a Horsheoe/chevron TA11 and you will be amazed how fast they are up close. Glorified 3.5x crosshair scope. For the same money you could have had a 1-4NF, 1-6 Razor, 1-6 SWFA or a better reticle that's more versitile. Ta-33 is also a great alternitive for $500 less. Same ER, slightly less power and FOV, but MUCH lighter.

They are combat optics, not precision medical optical instruments....





I've used ACOGs and Specter DR, and I really love the Specter DR. Both are built like a tank, it's just tht the DR offers more.
The DR May weigh more, but you honestly can't feel the difference.
I have the SOF version gen 3 Specter DR. I bought it brand new for $1750

 

[Luke]

If you see another one for that price let me know!

 

[Cobracutter]

They are combat optics, not precision medical optical instruments....





I've used ACOGs and Specter DR, and I really love the Specter DR. Both are built like a tank, it's just tht the DR offers more.
The DR May weigh more, but you honestly can't feel the difference.
I have the SOF version gen 3 Specter DR. I bought it brand new for $1750

Just about everyone that has posted in here is ignorant to the ELCAN.

If by combat optic, you mean it has a wondering POI shift, shitty mount, and a bunch of their issues that have been going on since inception, then yea its a combat optic.

The ONLY reason people even buy them, is they are issued on the SCAR's and a part of the later SOPMOD package. Guess what... So is the M3 light, and its a hunk of shit as well. Anyone who has run these , knows they are junk. Talk to any of the SOCOM guys who trained/carried/deployed with them, and they will tell you the same.

The Variable 1-X powered I mentioned are without a doubt superior optics all the way around.

The issue with the TA11 is reticle choice, its a shitty reticle for that optic, as I already explained.

I could give two shits what Bigfish or anyone who hasn't run these in volume thinks. They do not shoot them enough to see the issues, aren't testing the issues, and don't have enough of a sample.

9 times out of 10, the people buying these hardly ever shoot them. They wouldn't know the POI issue because they don't look for it. For $2K+ is a resounding hunk of overpriced shit. You have got to be fucking retarded to drop that kind of coin on this shitty optic when there are about 10 better options for the same price or cheaper. Someone sporting a DR, is proof they don't know shit and they hardly shoot. Their guns live in a safe and get pulled out to show off to the neighbors.

Don't take me word for it, ask the QP's and people who have done extensive testing with them. Or ask the top trainers why none of them use this piece of shit. Want to know why? Because they don't last.

 

[Bevan]

I shoot with mine, and a buddy has one, sample of 2 but no problems yet, few thousand rounds through the gun under mine. Clearly you don't like them and that's fine.

 

[dangerdan87]

Just about everyone that has posted in here is ignorant to the ELCAN.

If by combat optic, you mean it has a wondering POI shift, shitty mount, and a bunch of their issues that have been going on since inception, then yea its a combat optic.

The ONLY reason people even buy them, is they are issued on the SCAR's and a part of the later SOPMOD package. Guess what... So is the M3 light, and its a hunk of shit as well. Anyone who has run these , knows they are junk. Talk to any of the SOCOM guys who trained/carried/deployed with them, and they will tell you the same.

The Variable 1-X powered I mentioned are without a doubt superior optics all the way around.

The issue with the TA11 is reticle choice, its a shitty reticle for that optic, as I already explained.

I could give two shits what Bigfish or anyone who hasn't run these in volume thinks. They do not shoot them enough to see the issues, aren't testing the issues, and don't have enough of a sample.

9 times out of 10, the people buying these hardly ever shoot them. They wouldn't know the POI issue because they don't look for it. For $2K+ is a resounding hunk of overpriced shit. You have got to be fucking retarded to drop that kind of coin on this shitty optic when there are about 10 better options for the same price or cheaper. Someone sporting a DR, is proof they don't know shit and they hardly shoot. Their guns live in a safe and get pulled out to show off to the neighbors.

Don't take me word for it, ask the QP's and people who have done extensive testing with them. Or ask the top trainers why none of them use this piece of shit. Want to know why? Because they don't last.

I know several people who have been issued Specter DRs. None of them had anything bad to say about them. They loved it because it was better than the ACOGs TA31s we used because you could switch to 1X and use it similar to an Aimpoint.

Im sorry your butt-hurt because you had a bad experience with yours. Go Nay Say somewhere else.

 

[Cobracutter]

Plenty of people get issued shit gear and they don't know any better.

Bottom line, they fail under continued used, hence why they have already been through 3 revisions and I would not be surprised to see a 4th one come down the pipe.

Have your tested for POI shift? Have you ever even owned one? Do you even know what massive hunks of shit that ARMS mounts are? Since you have slim to none experience with them, how do you even rate a valid opinion?

 

[Bevan]

Have your tested for POI shift?

yep, negligible

Have you ever even owned one?

yep

Do you even know what massive hunks of shit that ARMS mounts are?

yeah but it doesn't seem to matter

 

[dangerdan87]

I have used the TA31F and the Specter DR extensively and I have never had an issue. The only POI I've noticed was going to Hawaii to Iraq. I liked the Specter Dr so much that I bought one for myself.
Ther are better mounts out there, but ARMS aren't shitty. I've never had one break or come loose. They may not be great for zero retention when removed, but I honestly never take my optics off and on....there really isn't a reason. My MK12 also had ARMS rings too...and I've never had problems with them either.

I'm not sure how you'd think that I don't have experience with any of these things.... You must be the only military guy on here....

 

[Luke]

You all should listen to Cobra....he has a CAB....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

[dangerdan87]

You all should listen to Cobra....he has a CAB....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Can't tell if sarcastic

 

[Clusterfrack]

Huh. I must have the only DR that holds up to high round count and has no POI shift ;-)

 

[Cobracutter]

I have used the TA31F and the Specter DR extensively and I have never had an issue. The only POI I've noticed was going to Hawaii to Iraq. I liked the Specter Dr so much that I bought one for myself.
Ther are better mounts out there, but ARMS aren't shitty. I've never had one break or come loose. They may not be great for zero retention when removed, but I honestly never take my optics off and on....there really isn't a reason. My MK12 also had ARMS rings too...and I've never had problems with them either.

I'm not sure how you'd think that I don't have experience with any of these things.... You must be the only military guy on here....

Ignorance and lack of experience are not doing you any favors.

Want to take a stroll down memory lane and learn how Larue became the company it is today? Take a look at ARMS and Dick Swan.

Don't worry, I don'y expect you to know anything, anyway.


Once again, you fail to read and cannot process such simple phrases. Tell me now, what reticle is in the TA31F?

 

[Cobracutter]

You all should listen to Cobra....he has a CAB....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

And you should keep listening to idiots who don't even understand they market they are talking about.

You deserve each other. I was trying to help you out, but you want to act like a dick head, you deserve the shitty advice your getting from other morons.

 

[Clusterfrack]

CC, you might have more fruitful discussions if you didn't insult anyone who disagrees with you. I'm sure you have experience that might be helpful, but it's a mistake to underestimate the experience and capabilities of others.

 

[Luke]

First of all this was never a "Give me your advice" thread. It was a "Hey, check out these two scopes side by side thread"

Secondly, since the Elcan sucks so bad we should probably create a public service announcement and tell these guys they are morons for choosing them and they are risking their lives and national security in the process:

 

[dangerdan87]

Ignorance and lack of experience are not doing you any favors.

Want to take a stroll down memory lane and learn how Larue became the company it is today? Take a look at ARMS and Dick Swan.

Don't worry, I don'y expect you to know anything, anyway.


Once again, you fail to read and cannot process such simple phrases. Tell me now, what reticle is in the TA31F?

You planning on going full retard? Cause your acting like it.

I don't have to give proof of myself to you. Shit, for all I know, your probably a General on Call of Duty.

 

[Cobracutter]

First of all this was never a "Give me your advice" thread. It was a "Hey, check out these two scopes side by side thread"

Secondly, since the Elcan sucks so bad we should probably create a public service announcement and tell these guys they are morons for choosing them and they are risking their lives and national security in the process:

SNIP

OHHH google pictures...... Google pictures on issued gear. See that MK16 the elcan is sitting on.........it was shitcanned to. Same with the exact insight m3/m6 that is a known failure.

Like I said in an earlier post, there are more than a couple shitty pieces of gear issued in the SOPMOD block 2 package. Just because they use it doesn't mean its the best. Not every SOF is a gun guy and some could care less.

Need me to post pictures of Team guys who decided to pay out of their own pocket $1500-$3900 for their own optic instead of using the issued ELCAN? What does that say?

Once again you fail at reading comprehension, I would tell you to try again, but I expect more failure.

If you need attention to say hay look at these scopes, try facebook. I'm sure they will be impressed by your COD shwag. You aren't sharing any new information or asking for it, then why are you posting?

 

[Cobracutter]

You planning on going full retard? Cause your acting like it.

I don't have to give proof of myself to you. Shit, for all I know, your probably a General on Call of Duty.

I did not ask you for proof, because as I said, you lack the experience on insight to the subject matter you are trying to speak on. You have zero desire to learn so you are just a waste of electrons thus far.

 

[Luke]

Ok, you've proven your point - you don't like the Elcan. Let's move on....

 

[Bevan]

why not both?

 

[Luke]

Bevan, let me know which trash can you put your Elcan in so I can go dumpster diving...

 

[dangerdan87]

Bevan, let me know which trash can you put your Elcan in so I can go dumpster diving...

I'd start looking at Cobracutters house, after he woos you with his Teir 1 stories and offerings of imitation crab meat.

 

[Mynamewontfi]

Used both and liked both. I'll say this of the Elcan though... if you use that shit anywhere near salt water the windage adjustments seize badly and are a pain to get unstuck.

I've seen it on countless elcans when used in the maritime role, not that everyone on this site uses it for that though...

 

[jasonfaz]

First off, I agree with Cobra - and genuinely appreciate the feedback shared from real experience in harsh conditions - something everyone should take into account and apply as necessary. I also disagree with him under one application-specific circumstance.

I've run the SpecterDR, ATOS3.0 DMR, TA31F, the TA11, even the god damn HAMR. In my opinion, the SpecterDR is FAR superior to all if the fixed mag CQB optics out there. It gets interesting when comparing a variable optic though. I own or have owned the MK6 & MK8, Bushy 1-8.5, the IOR Valdada Trident & LTS, and a S&B Short Dot. Are they heavier when you include mounts? Sure, but not by much (the MK6 1-6 + Spuhr rings weigh .4 oz more than an Elcan SpecterDR) and the trade offs you obtain in exchange for that extra weight are easily worth it under most circumstances I've been involved with. The only application I continue to use the Elcan on are short rifles - those generally being rigs under 10.5". As a result of the avg 3.0"+ of eye relief in a variable optic and the need for a cantilever mount you end up running a 7.5"-10.5" rig and your MF'ing optic is nearly twice the length of your barrel. No thanks.

Outside of that narrow application though, here was my thought process. The Elcan has a 6.0 MOA dot at 1x! That's not conducive to the best accuracy out if a non-magnified optic. The 1.5MOA dot at 4x is vastly better. The mount is beyond shitty, nothing more to say on that. Unless you have a Phillips screwdriver attached to you at all times elevation - but more so wind adjustments - are going to be tough. The little strand of yarn connecting the illumination knob to the optic literally made me laugh. Weight would be the last derogatory thing I could say about the best CQB optic out there. Now for the good. The benefits revolve around the reticle, it's design and the speed with which you can apply that value. It's by far the best IMO. The full reticle illum with NV especially the PVS24 - is simply awesome. I couldn't go from 1x to 4x half as fast as I can with any variable 1-6x or 8x optic. The 4 3/4 inches in length make is great on SBRs and does noticeably help with weapon balance. They're built like a tank. All that said, I wouldn't run one on anything over 10.5"... Hope that feedback helps.

 

[Bevan]

I wish it had a 1/4moa dot in the centre. The adjustments can easily be made with the rim of a 5.56 case

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Interested in seeing the comparison photos, but they are not working.

 

[Luke]

I just reached my bandwidth limit on Photobucket. Need to find an alternate picture host...

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Luke]

Pictures are fixed...

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Thank you. How far out was that coyote?

 

[Luke]

Roughly 650 yards by my best guess.

 

[J.Boyette]

Cobracutter,

You are a dick, but you know that already right? No matter what level of experience you do have, your attitude is poor and the delivery of information is so poor, it's just not worth interacting with you.

Luke,

I would test the ELCAN and see what POI shift you have from 1x to 4x and then 4x to 1x. I would use a NRA 25yd Pistol bullseye target on clean piece of cardboard at 100yds to record the shift. If its not bad, or no shift I would enjoy the ELCAN. There comes a point in life where everything does not have ot rotate around combat. If the ELCAN does as the owner needs, then its a great buy.

The ACOG is nice, I think the location you live in, the rifle you will put it on and the type of shooting you plan on doing is great. I am a huge ACOG fan and for normal rifleman uses the ACOG is one of the best buys.

John

 

[Bevan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z-oAtSLiNw



Yes my trigger control with a semi auto rifle was bad at the time.

 

[MrM2HB]

Great video Bevan, I like the optic, don't care what others say.

 

[snipe10]

Ok, now I'm really confused, wtf do I put on my M4 for CQB and ranges to 200-300 yards? Sorry OP, not trying to steal the thread it's just I opened this up as I was debating between the two, thanks for posting.

In closing, can't we all just fucking get along? Believe it or not, I've learned a few things from CC but it's clear he's not in customer service!