Quickest procedure to reduce time/trips to the range in load development?

[Freedomaintfree]

I am developing a load for my 7mm Rem Mag. I am new to all of this and haven't loaded a single round yet (so please go easy on me). I want to use 160 Accubonds, H1000 powder and Federal 215 primers. I have cleaned, prepped and sorted my brass by weight. I found the case base to ogive length and determined a seating dept .02 off the lands to be 2.8190. I still have to see if this will fit in the magazine... may have to shorten it up a bit.

The Hogdon website shows a 160 Partition H1000 load with 62-66 grains of powder, but looking online it appears most folks are using about 70 grains on their H1000 load with Accubonds (I guess they create less pressure than a Partition and are closer to a BTSP bullet). I know many people are using other powders for 7mm Rem Mag loads, but I would like to try to use powder that I think will work well for both my 7mm Rem Mag and 300 win mag (which I plan to load with either 215 Berger Hybrids or 210 LR Accubonds).

I believe I am ready to load some ammo!! What procedure would you recommend for reducing time and trips to the range to get my load dialed in?

Thanks for the help.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I am developing a load for my 7mm Rem Mag. I am new to all of this and haven't loaded a single round yet (so please go easy on me). I want to use 160 Accubonds, H1000 powder and Federal 215 primers. I have cleaned, prepped and sorted my brass by weight. I found the case base to ogive length and determined a seating dept .02 off the lands to be 2.8190. I still have to see if this will fit in the magazine... may have to shorten it up a bit.

The Hogdon website shows a 160 Partition H1000 load with 62-66 grains of powder, but looking online it appears most folks are using about 70 grains on their H1000 load with Accubonds (I guess they create less pressure than a Partition and are closer to a BTSP bullet). I know many people are using other powders for 7mm Rem Mag loads, but I would like to try to use powder that I think will work well for both my 7mm Rem Mag and 300 win mag (which I plan to load with either 215 Berger Hybrids or 210 LR Accubonds).

I believe I am ready to load some ammo!! What procedure would you recommend for reducing time and trips to the range to get my load dialed in?

Thanks for the help.

If you can take everything to the range, do that.

If not you could always load and increase the charge by 0.5gr and watch for pressure signs.

You may have to disassemble the rounds loaded above “pressure signs”

 

[Doom]

OP, What is the maximum distance on your range?

 

[Freedomaintfree]

300 for paper targets

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

This also interest me as I try to do the same.

What are you trying to accomplish in all your range trips?

Velocities, ES, SD?
Max pressure?
OCW test?
seating depth test?

I typically try to do the top 3 in one trip. I will start just below max or average out some popular loads and load 3 rounds each in .2gr incriments up to about a grain over max then drop down to 1rd each until the case is full. That way I only have to pull singles.

I shoot them round robin, each load at a different target.

Documenting velocity the whole time and watching for pressure signs.

All total I'll typically have about 60 shots.

Of course this is my unorthodox way of cramming as much into one trip as I can.

Sometimes ill test a new bullet and/or powder along side it, only loading 1ea in .2 incriments and shoot them all at the same target. That will give me a baseline for above.

 

[Doom]

First since it sounds like you are new to reloading and probably are doing this without someone to guide you, my recommendation is try and find someone at your range that would be willing to assist and advise you. You should invest in one of the major reloading manuals such as Nosler, Hornady, or Lyman since they all have good guidance on the hows and whys of what to do and not to do. These also will provide guidance as to powder choices and loads. Remember, you will be totally responsible for the detonation going on a few inches from your face.

Be very careful about relying on what others post on the internet. Thats not to say that the information is wrong, but the influence of many variables can significantly affect the loads. The most significant is probably differences in how the chamber is cut. I will also tell you that may loads that are developed that go to a pressure indication and then backed off slightly (.5 to 1 gr) are probably still overpressure.

In your case with the Nosler bullet you can refer to The Nosler website and find loading data for you caliber and bullet. In this case H1000 is not one of the recommended powders so you should default to Hodgdon data. You should also work with the load manuals overall length to begin with as well as the same components.

As for testing there are multiple options since you have 300 yds to work with. The first is the traditional Audette Ladder test. You can find info all over the net on it. Its shot at 300 yds and helps identify the likely node points. It doesn't require anything but the loads, the target and a good shooter. If you have a chronograph then the Scott Satterlee Ladder is a refinement of the Audette ladder. Again you can find info here on this forum and elsewhere on the internet. My preferred method is Dan Newberry's Optimum Charge Weight which is shot at 100 yds. It does typically require more initial rounds. Again you can search over the internet and find his websites. I recommend reviewing Dan's method even if you don't use it as he does an excellent job of describing what a good load is.

In every case though, you will be looking at two trips to the range minimum unless you have the option of loading at the range. Also, since you are looking at a 7MM Magnum, I would suggest you borrow or buy a lead sled. All of the methods above require that the shooter be as accurate as possible, over somewhere between 15 and 30 shots.

2aBaCa has mentioned a number of items that are important ultimately such as velocities, extreme spread, and standard deviation, which are ultimately important but at this point with a 300 yd range the target will tell you what you need to know unless you are looking at long range shooting (>600yds). Even then, the target will be the ultimate arbiter.

Good luck, and remember the most import thing about shouting AND reloading, BE SAFE.

EDIT: One final thought, you will need a good spotting scope for the ladder tests.

 

[ShtrRdy]

There's a lot to learn by experience when just starting out. I would suggest loading up a series of cartridges with different powder charge weights. Load 3 rounds at each powder charge weight. Then shoot groups of each powder charge. For the 7mm RM I would use a powder charge increment of 0.4 grains. It looks like the Nosler data suggests up to 70 grain of H1000 with the 168 gr ABLR. So I think you should be okay going up to 70 gr. Maybe do something like
68.0
68.4
68.8
69.2
69.6
70.0

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

 

[Steel head]

If your new a simple ladder as shown above is a good method.


With some experience you may try other methods but they often require you to interpret information with some previous experience.

 

[918v]

I would get back off the lands more than 20. Need room to play with coal later.

Do u have a chrono? Load a ladder in .3gr icrements from min to max, write down the velocity of each round, note the point of impact on paper. Pick a group of three consecutive rounds having the same point of impact and velocity. Pick the middle one and tune the coal from there.

 

[Rocketmandb]

There's a lot to learn by experience when just starting out. I would suggest loading up a series of cartridges with different powder charge weights. Load 3 rounds at each powder charge weight. Then shoot groups of each powder charge. For the 7mm RM I would use a powder charge increment of 0.4 grains. It looks like the Nosler data suggests up to 70 grain of H1000 with the 168 gr ABLR. So I think you should be okay going up to 70 gr. Maybe do something like
68.0
68.4
68.8
69.2
69.6
70.0

Nosler Load Data

Explore the world of Nosler, renowned for crafting the finest bullets, ammunition, rifles, and brass. Discover our extensive lineup, including Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Ballistic Tip, Custom Competition, and more. Experience superior quality and performance with Nosler products.

load-data.nosler.com

This would be a solid plan, though I'll say that my personal preference is to shoot 5-shot strings for added sample size.

Also, for targets I like to use orange dots on a big piece of blank news print or other light paper with the charge weights written above each in big writing using a Sharpie. This way you can make sure you're shooting at the correct target for each load. And I use the orange dots instead of something like a Shoot n' See because we will subconsciously try to correct if we see the previous impact. For load development, I prefer to have to walk down to the target to see the results. Shoot all your strings then go look - and at 300 yards, shoot with the scope magnification fairly zoomed out - just enough that you consistently put the crosshairs in the center of the dot each time.

Also make sure you write the charge weight on each case using same said Sharpie. Having your ammo box fall over will ruin your day in a hurry without. Ask me how I know...

EDIT: I found a pic of my first load dev target for my 6BRA at 300 yds.

What did I do wrong here?

Well, my best group was at my top charge weight. I stopped there because during a previous ladder test, I got a sticky bolt at 30.8 gr. But I didn't test 30.7. This necessitated me going out for a second where I could test 30.7 gr and 30.8 gr again to validate the sticky bolt (which I did) - at least I doubled up on the second trip by also validating my ideal seating depth, which is depicted in the improved groups.

I got this:
Note that the 31.1 weight below is for a different powder and bullet, which didn't work out.

 

[ditter]

Use a chronograph. You'll be glad you did. Gives you lots of information and takes the shooter out of the equation.

Load up the min to the max powder weights in .3 increments. Three shots at each weight. record the velocities and plug them into a spreadsheet (you can find them online easily). You should see a nice powder charge to use. Then you can play around with cartridge lengths. You can usually start with a factory length.

 

[HiDesertELR]

You won't find any advice on how to reduce your trips to the range here, we only advise more trips to the range ?


+1 for ladder/node testing, sharpie on the cases, 5 shot groups. But especially node testing.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Here’s about the fastest way you’ll find. One of the best F class shooters in the country.

Basically 3 range trips (2 if you don’t mind pulling a lot of bullets) and you’ll have your load/node.

You are being redirected...

 

[30cal user]

Get an arbor press and inline seater and bring it to the range with a lot loaded rounds at different charges and depths

both are inexpensive

 

[Doom]

Here’s about the fastest way you’ll find. One of the best F class shooters in the country.

Eric has a system that works for him. If the OP is shooting a commercial chamber he may not be able to jam the bullet. As he is a new reloader with either no or limited assistance I think jamming is bad advice.

 

[phlegethon]

Eric has a system that works for him. If the OP is shooting a commercial chamber he may not be able to jam the bullet. As he is a new reloader with either no or limited assistance I think jamming is bad advice.

You don’t have to jam to use Erik’s method. You can start touching the lands, or wherever. The key is to look at impact location and not group size when finding the charge weight. This is really the same as a ladder test, just more robust (more data points, more reliable to read because they are spread out horizontally).

 

[phlegethon]

Here’s about the fastest way you’ll find. One of the best F class shooters in the country.

Basically 3 range trips (2 if you don’t mind pulling a lot of bullets) and you’ll have your load/node.

You are being redirected...

If you can bring a press and a clamp to the range, you can get pretty close in one trip.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Eric has a system that works for him. If the OP is shooting a commercial chamber he may not be able to jam the bullet. As he is a new reloader with either no or limited assistance I think jamming is bad advice.

Read it again. He doesn’t jam for testing. He jams to find the lands.

He then starts at jam -.020 which is jumped .020

 

[Dthomas3523]

Eric has a system that works for him. If the OP is shooting a commercial chamber he may not be able to jam the bullet. As he is a new reloader with either no or limited assistance I think jamming is bad advice.

The closest he is to jamming is .005” off lands

 

[47guy]

If you can bring a press and a clamp to the range, you can get pretty close in one trip.

the lee hand press is perfect for seating tests at the range.

 

[Doom]

Read it again. He doesn’t jam for testing. He jams to find the lands.

He then starts at jam -.020 which is jumped .020

I stand corrected! Should have read the whole post. Not relied on an old man’s memory.

 

[Freedomaintfree]

Thanks. I measured with Hornady OAL guage. I was going to seat .02 off the lands but had to seat much shorter to fit in the magazine.

 

[LawnMM]

I'd start about a grain below max and do 3rds every .2gr till you see the velocity you want, without signs of pressure, and seemingly good numbers on the chronograph.

You can then check at whichever weight you like the looks off, fire strings of five at the charge as well as .1 above and below, and see which groups well and has good Chrono numbers.

Magnetospeed or Labradar, but Chrono the loads. Don't waste time tuning something only to find out the es/sd numbers suck.

You should have a minimum of 150-200rds on the barrel before starting.

 

[Curahee19]

Whichever method you do know that your velocity isn’t going to stay the same if it’s a new barrel. After a 100 rounds it tends to go higher and higher so I wouldnt even do loads right now. Make some rounds maybe play with seating depth load them all the same charge weight and go plinking. Once you really open that barrel then start messing with your charge weight. I do the Scott Saterle method and find a velocity node I wanna do load development with. Last week I took my 6 creedmoor to a match Wich only had 30 rounds through a brand new barrel. Made 100 rounds took it to a match. Checked my velocity right before the match it was at 2930. Checked again after the match after 80 rounds 2960.
30 FPS faster just after 80 rounds so doing load development is a waste of time in the beginning. Btw got 2nd place

 

[Freedomaintfree]

Interesting. T

Whichever method you do know that your velocity isn’t going to stay the same if it’s a new barrel. After a 100 rounds it tends to go higher and higher so I wouldnt even do loads right now. Make some rounds maybe play with seating depth load them all the same charge weight and go plinking. Once you really open that barrel then start messing with your charge weight. I do the Scott Saterle method and find a velocity node I wanna do load development with. Last week I took my 6 creedmoor to a match Wich only had 30 rounds through a brand new barrel. Made 100 rounds took it to a match. Checked my velocity right before the match it was at 2930. Checked again after the match after 80 rounds 2960.
30 FPS faster just after 80 rounds so doing load development is a waste of time in the beginning. Btw got 2nd place

interesting. The 7mag has ~300 rounds through it so that should be good but my next rifle to handload for only has 10 rounds through it.

 

[Freedomaintfree]

Also I will be using magnetospeed that I just picked up

 

[Dthomas3523]

Also I will be using magnetospeed that I just picked up

If you really want to do it fast, seat then all at .020 off lands. Different charge weights. .3 or .5 apart. 3 or 5 shot groups.

Pick the 2 loads that have the lowest ES closest to each other. And split the middle. If it’s say 32.0 and 32.5 then do 32.2. If it’s say 3 of them close, split the middle of that. Don’t even worry about shooting groups.

Then seat them .005-.038 off lands in .003 increments.

Pick the middle of the jump that groups best.

There’s your load.

 

[hogfarmcaptain]

Look up the Scott Satterlee load development test. It is very similar to the one used by Erik Cortina, and there are lots of in-depth articles about it. Also, that method uses a chronograph rather than just groups which I think can be a big help if you aren’t a perfect shot yet.

 

[Curahee19]

Interesting. T

interesting. The 7mag has ~300 rounds through it so that should be good but my next rifle to handload for only has 10 rounds through it.

oh ya 300 rounds is more than enough I thought it was a new barrel

 

[beetroot]

If you really want to do it fast, seat then all at .020 off lands. Different charge weights. .3 or .5 apart. 3 or 5 shot groups.

Pick the 2 loads that have the lowest ES closest to each other. And split the middle. If it’s say 32.0 and 32.5 then do 32.2. If it’s say 3 of them close, split the middle of that. Don’t even worry about shooting groups.

Then seat them .005-.038 off lands in .003 increments.

Pick the middle of the jump that groups best.

There’s your load.

Slightly old thread I know.
Wanting to see if I understand this correctly.

The method you mention here is more or less what Erik says to do just speed up a little.
The general idea being that powder charge is tested to find the smallest ES/SD and the group accuracy is tuned with seating depth?

Is there any basis to doing seating depth chnages in .003 increments, why not do .005?
I'm guessing that .001 increments is ridiculous and .005 is quite a lot so .003 is just a natural/happy middle ground?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Slightly old thread I know.
Wanting to see if I understand this correctly.

The method you mention here is more or less what Erik says to do just speed up a little.
The general idea being that powder charge is tested to find the smallest ES/SD and the group accuracy is tuned with seating depth?

Is there any basis to doing seating depth chnages in .003 increments, why not do .005?
I'm guessing that .001 increments is ridiculous and .005 is quite a lot so .003 is just a natural/happy middle ground?

My method is almost a carbon copy of Erik’s. I’ve been to his class and bug him often with ideas. I have modified it for prs use.

For PRS, I use his tuner and now rarely do any seating depth tests. Just run it .020 off lands and use tuner. Every so often I’ll re-tune it. I still do the velocity ES powder charge development. *However* if you have a scale like an fx120 or any other accurate to the kernel, for PRS use, you can basically just load to the velocity you want. As long as you have a good BC/curve, just chrono wherever you are shooting and input the velocity.

Erik and company have a very different requirement of their rifles for F class use. So, the .003 increment seating depth is likely overkill for us.

I always recommend for anyone to do the process complete as Erik prescribes, as they will get a good load. If I recommend the shortcuts or changes, and they don’t get the results they thought, they will dismiss the original method.

In short, damn near anything works for PRS.