R700 sudden loss in accuracy

[Canis Latrans]

Hey everyone. A few months ago I bought an R700 sps in 308. It's got a standard barrel on it, not a heavy barrel. I mounted a Bushnell 3200 10x tactical in cheap Quad lock rings on a Remington weaver base. I have been shooting it when I have time, and have probably put around 70 rounds through it. I'm using Winchester Powerpoints as they seem to be the most accurate. I was, until recently getting about 1-1.5" groups at 100 yards off the bench on average.

Then one day the groups opened up to around 4- 5". I went home frustrated and thoroughly cleaned the bore, remounted the scope and the next day I tried, same result. I remounted the scope again and cleaned it again, same thing. I was thinking either copper fouling or scope slipping in the rings ( I could see lines indicating the scope was sliding forward in the rings, but it hadn't hurt accuracy before.) So I ordered the Burris Signature Z rings in medium. I also bought Hoppes number 9 benchrest copper solvent and cleaned the bore until there was hardly a trace of copper left, it took about 3 days).

I decreased the scope and all of the rings with alcohol and mounted my scope tightening the rings about 1/4 turn past what I could do with the short end of the "L" torx wrench. Went to the range and sighted in at 50 yards.

First shot high and right. Second shot 5" below that. 3rd shot 1/2" away from shot 2. 3rd shot about the same. I figured it was doing alright now with the fouling shot out of the way. I adjusted my scope 18 clicks left expecting the group to move about 2" left. The shots continued to land in about the same 1" area. I turned 12 more clicks left and the group moved most of the way to the bullseye.

I then fired at the 100 yard target and it missed the 8.5x11 paper. I got it on paper and still was getting about a 4" group. I let the rifle cool several minutes between every 3-6 shots. After firing 3 shots it is hot, I let it cool down until it was at least warm if not outside temperature.

Can anyone help me out here? I hope I didn't harm the bore while cleaning it. I used a brass cleaning rod and used a copper brush after the first inaccurate outing. I don't have a bore guide but didn't think I could damage the bore this fast.

Also, a few trips back I looked down the bore before firing, then loaded a round into the chamber, but it wouldn't close as if the bullet were to long ( I was using factory ammo). I pushed a little harder than usual to try to get it in, but didn't try to force it real hard. I found that there was a cleaning patch somehow stuck round the opening to the throat of the rifle. Could this have damaged something?

I would really appreciate any help or suggestions as this is very discouraging. Sorry for the long post, but I tried to include everything I could think of that might have led to a problem.

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

If the chamber and barrel are clear, I would say that your scope is toast. Happened to me 3 scopes in a row on my lightweight 300saum. If you have another scope to try, do it. Good luck

 

[dareposte]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Sounds like the scope to me. Swap it out for something else and see what happens. Also check the crown for nicks or dings, thats been known to destroy accuracy rapidly.

I think its unlikely that you damaged the bore by just cleaning it as you described. On my factory remington barrel it always shoots like poop until I get about 20-25 rounds through it, then it smooths out and shoots okay. So I just don't clean it very often and it stays pretty accurate.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Yeah get a new scope and rings... you will be gtg.

 

[crockett007]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Could you possibly post some pics of your set up? Sort of hard to offer suggestions without seeing the equipment. I would offer that you bring your target up to 25 yds. until you under stand what the heck is going on.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Thanks guys, I was thinking it might be the scope, unfortunately I don't have another one that can take center-fire recoil. I'll have to borrow someone's.

How would posting a picture help you? what do you want in the picture? I got the scope less than a year ago from Bushnell so their warranty should help me out. How would moving it to 25 yards help? All shots were on paper at 50 yards. How would a scope like this break? Over-tightening? There are no marks on the scope that can;t be wiped off with my fingers. I don't remember dropping it either.

I checked the crown as I heard that messes up accuracy as well. I'm not an expert but there are no dings or marks I can see. All paint is still there as well. Thanks guys for all of the help, I'd like to hear as many opinions as possible.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

dude .....you really would benefit by educating yourself....take a class, grow a brain stem, and you won't endanger yourself or others with your haphazard approach to running with the big dogs.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Hey man, you don't have to be a jerk by telling me to grow a brain stem. What about what I'm doing is dangerous? There are always slight risks when using firearms, but what am I doing that's so dangerous? Shooting with a possibly busted scope? If you can't answer this question without being an ass, work on raising your post count in another thread please.

 

[Nortex]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

make sure your action screws are tight.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Canis Latrans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey man, you don't have to be a jerk by telling me to grow a brain stem. What about what I'm doing is dangerous? There are always slight risks when using firearms, but what am I doing that's so dangerous? Shooting with a possibly busted scope? If you can't answer this question without being an ass, work on raising your post count in another thread please. </div></div>


ok now i know you feel much better.....so go back to Barf15dotcom.....and play nice and don't trip on your percieved big dick.....sport.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

I'm not sure what this loser's problem is, can anybody tell me? I'm just looking for opinions here.

Nortex, I will check the screws but I don't have anything to measure torque. I've been looking at the FAT by wheeler but it's getting mixed reviews. Is trying to feel it by hand a lost cause?

 

[jagged77]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Check your action screws (as mentioned above). Check function of scope (unmounted), check alignment of mounts and rings - it could be that the mounts and/or rings are out of alignment and 'bending' the scope when tightened. If excessive enough can cause the scope turrets to stop working and loss of accuracy.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Good glass is paramount.

Boltripper score= 1
OP= .5

 

[Joel989]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

First, insure that the rifle is unloaded.

Second: I don’t know how familiar you are with firearms, so, I’ll do this as your not. Don’t take offense.

Take everything apart. Remove the barreled action from the stock.
Check that there is nothing (small stones, large rocks, etc., Dirt) between the bedding surfaces of the stock and the receiver (including the barrel channel!).
Check that the recoil lug is not moving (should feel firm, no movement).
Replace the receiver back into the cleaned stock. Insert the action screws, but don’t fully tighten them. Hold the rifle with the muzzle towards the sky and just nock the rifle to the floor on its butt. (Don’t need much force.) To insure that the recoil lug is again tight against the lug bedding.
Now finish tightening the action screws. Don’t need superman tight, just what you can twist with a small hex key.

Now, check the receiver mounting bases. Remove them and check for any dirt or whatever could be between the mating surfaces. (maybe the mounts are loose, then that’s you problem).
Remount the bases. Use an Allen key but don’t break the screws. You could put a dab of Locktite on each screw (Blue, not red!).
Remount the scope. (seems that you got that down. If not, do it again).

Take the wind-age knob of the scope and turn it fully in one direction. Turn it back all the way noting the number of clicks. Turn it back half the number of clicks and leave it there. Do the same with the elevation.

Go to the range, Set a Paper target up at 50 or even 100 yds. Remove your bolt. Sight through the bore and center the barrel onto the target. Looking back and forth between the bore and scope, adjust the crosshairs until they are centered on the same location as the bore. (You’ll get close.)

Now, insuring that you don’t have any garbage in the action (had to throw that in. Embarrassing, but at least you admitted it and most of us have done something we don’t talk about!).

Load a round. Shoot it. Adjust to get you on the paper. Shoot a three shot group. If your not hitting within an inch or two. Get the scope looked at. At that point you should see a gunsmith.

Remember: Don’t ever try to force a round into the chamber with the bolt. Seen guys do this only to discover another round was in place (chambered) but didn’t get picked up by the extractor.
Could end up as a bad day at the range.
Good luck and if your unsure, don’t do it! Let us know how you make out!

 

[pupdawg]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gutowsky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, insure that the rifle is unloaded.

Second: I don’t know how familiar you are with firearms, so, I’ll do this as your not. Don’t take offense.

Take everything apart. Remove the barreled action from the stock.
Check that there is nothing (small stones, large rocks, etc., Dirt) between the bedding surfaces of the stock and the receiver (including the barrel channel!).
Check that the recoil lug is not moving (should feel firm, no movement).
Replace the receiver back into the cleaned stock. Insert the action screws, but don’t fully tighten them. Hold the rifle with the muzzle towards the sky and just nock the rifle to the floor on its butt. (Don’t need much force.) To insure that the recoil lug is again tight against the lug bedding.
Now finish tightening the action screws. Don’t need superman tight, just what you can twist with a small hex key.

Now, check the receiver mounting bases. Remove them and check for any dirt or whatever could be between the mating surfaces. (maybe the mounts are loose, then that’s you problem).
Remount the bases. Use an Allen key but don’t break the screws. You could put a dab of Locktite on each screw (Blue, not red!).
Remount the scope. (seems that you got that down. If not, do it again).

Take the wind-age knob of the scope and turn it fully in one direction. Turn it back all the way noting the number of clicks. Turn it back half the number of clicks and leave it there. Do the same with the elevation.

Go to the range, Set a Paper target up at 50 or even 100 yds. Remove your bolt. Sight through the bore and center the barrel onto the target. Looking back and forth between the bore and scope, adjust the crosshairs until they are centered on the same location as the bore. (You’ll get close.)

Now, insuring that you don’t have any garbage in the action (had to throw that in. Embarrassing, but at least you admitted it and most of us have done something we don’t talk about!).

Load a round. Shoot it. Adjust to get you on the paper. Shoot a three shot group. If your not hitting within an inch or two. Get the scope looked at. At that point you should see a gunsmith.

Remember: Don’t ever try to force a round into the chamber with the bolt. Seen guys do this only to discover another round was in place (chambered) but didn’t get picked up by the extractor.
Could end up as a bad day at the range.
Good luck and if your unsure, don’t do it! Let us know how you make out!
</div></div>

If he just replaces the scope with a known good one and the accuracy comes back he doesn't need to do all this stuff.

REPLACE the SCOPE FIRST. Why you gonna tear down the whole rifle when its easier to replace the scope with a KNOWN functional one. You DONT HAVE TO BUY a new one just borrow one or send in your existing scope for warranty... you gotta be able to figure that part out.

You tear down the rifle AFTER you isolate that the problem is indeed the rifle.

Understanding HOW to trouble shoot a firearm is understanding how any weapon system works. If you don't or can't understand how it works then you shouldn't be shooting. Anyone can say "But I don't know." Only a few are gonna TRY to find out on their own instead of playing "damsel in distress"...

Now do you guys see what BOLTRIPPER was gettin at?

Replace the scope with a known good one and buy good rings then come back here and post if that DOES NOT WORK... THEN we can move you onto the next part.

 

[lovain1932]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

I believe a different scope will most likely do the trick

 

[RHutch]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Gotta love the "Bolt"....laffin' here.

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Ouch, you guys are harsh! He is learning this stuff with a little help. We all gotta start somewhere. Anyhow, good advise so far. Don't let these guys put you off canis, you'll get it figured out.

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

It is this kind of asshattery which separates out this community from others. Sure, some of the folks here have oodles of experience which is difficult to find elsewhere, but they know it and act like they know it.

There are a few folks that I know, former military, police officers, etc, who read but either dont post or post very little because of the environment. There is always going to be drama. Some of it is going to be bullshit. And expect to be smacked down (verbally at least) if you give anyone reason to believe you are not as super ninja expert as they are.

Throw in the sociopathic effects of the internet and voila, you get a few of the responses we have seen here.

 

[Alderleet]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Canis Latrans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey man, you don't have to be a jerk by telling me to grow a brain stem. What about what I'm doing is dangerous? There are always slight risks when using firearms, but what am I doing that's so dangerous? Shooting with a possibly busted scope? If you can't answer this question without being an ass, work on raising your post count in another thread please. </div></div>


ok now i know you feel much better.....so go back to Barf15dotcom.....and play nice and don't trip on your percieved big dick.....sport.</div></div>

Thats uncalled for...

 

[GorbashUK]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Canis. Please do not be put off by some of the assholes who reply on this forum. There is a huge amount of knowledge and valid opinion here. There are also a few range ninjas who enjoy dumping on what they percieve to be 'newbie' questions, ignore them, remember the closest these assholes have got to the 'sandbox' is a trip to the beach with their mommys. For what its worth I too think your scope is screwed, for such a variation in accuracy its the only thing it can be. Was told at the start of rifle shooting to spend on the scope what i spent on the rifle. Good Luck.

 

[spaniel]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Since the POI is not shifting with scope adjustment it really sounds like the scope. However, there are two varieties of factory remington barrels: those that need to be shot dirty as hell, and those that need to be cleaned like hell every 15-20 shots to shoot well. Not sure what you mean by "cleaned it", but simply wiping solvent patches through the barrel will not do it. Those barrels are porous. Get Wipe-Out or a similar bore foam, and follow the instructions. Then take your jag with a couple patches over it and carefully plug the muzzle, Using a straw, fill the barrel up to the chamber with a good copper solvent and let it soak for about 20min. Run a few more solvent patches through it and that barrel should be immaculate. If cleaning is the issue, that will tell you. FWIW I need to do this with mine every 20-30 shots or I can't hold the accuracy I want.

Ignore the blow-hards. This place has really gone downhill in the past few years with them but there is still good information here if you learn to just scroll past the idiots.

 

[nzgrip]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Probably is the scope but cost nothing to remove the action and check the stock and recoil lug etc. Be pissed if you bought an expensive scope just to find it still shots crap, and all it needed was to tighten the action screws. Do the free shit first i say.

 

[Joel989]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Could be a malfunctioning scope. Or, the scope mounting base screws have loosened. Seen guys adjusting wind-age and elevation unable to hold zero, only to find that the screws have worked loose and even fell out.

Still, it’s not a big effort to strip it down and become familiar with the whole weapon. Just my 2 cents.

 

[hill billy]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuscalino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Canis. Please do not be put off by some of the assholes who reply on this forum. There is a huge amount of knowledge and valid opinion here. There are also a few range ninjas who enjoy dumping on what they percieve to be 'newbie' questions, ignore them, remember the closest these assholes have got to the 'sandbox' is a trip to the beach with their mommys. For what its worth I too think your scope is screwed, for such a variation in accuracy its the only thing it can be. Was told at the start of rifle shooting to spend on the scope what i spent on the rifle. Good Luck. </div></div>You and I have been here about the same amount of time. One of us has figured out that Boltripper probably doesn't fit in your little scenario. It isn't you.

I came here because I had heard this place was filled with knowledgeable, experienced guys. I found that to be mostly true.If I have a dumb question, I read more or ask it somewhere else. This is the advanced class, smart people listen a lot and talk a little. Dig?

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

If you have checked the mounting hardware and everything is tight, then my bet is a trashed scope.

As other have said, track down a buddy with a "known good" scope and have at it.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Thanks a lot guys, I read every comment and really appreciate the help. I'm going to make sure the bore and action are clean and then mount a scope I know to be good on there and see what happens. If that doesn't work I'll follow the advice of breaking down the entire gun and cleaning it before putting it back together (sounds like that should be done every once in a while anyway). I know there are a lot of assholes on here, there are in a lot of places on the internet but I was just surprised someone felt it worth their time to post that for no reason. I wanted to post here just because I was already signed up and I know a LOT of people here have Remington 700s. Next time I'll probably take the advice given and signup and post somewhere else. Thanks guys!

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Canis Latrans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey man, you don't have to be a jerk by telling me to grow a brain stem. What about what I'm doing is dangerous? There are always slight risks when using firearms, but what am I doing that's so dangerous? Shooting with a possibly busted scope? If you can't answer this question without being an ass, work on raising your post count in another thread please. </div></div>

Canis, that's bolt's way of saying 'welcome to the hide'. He's an old salty dog, don't take it to heart.

 

[GorbashUK]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuscalino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Canis. Please do not be put off by some of the assholes who reply on this forum. There is a huge amount of knowledge and valid opinion here. There are also a few range ninjas who enjoy dumping on what they percieve to be 'newbie' questions, ignore them, remember the closest these assholes have got to the 'sandbox' is a trip to the beach with their mommys. For what its worth I too think your scope is screwed, for such a variation in accuracy its the only thing it can be. Was told at the start of rifle shooting to spend on the scope what i spent on the rifle. Good Luck. </div></div>You and I have been here about the same amount of time. One of us has figured out that Boltripper probably doesn't fit in your little scenario. It isn't you.

I came here because I had heard this place was filled with knowledgeable, experienced guys. I found that to be mostly true.If I have a dumb question, I read more or ask it somewhere else. This is the advanced class, smart people listen a lot and talk a little. Dig?</div></div>

Disagree. Question from a new guy but a valid 1. Many guys on this forum would know the answer, a good place to ask it IMHO. No need to put him down just for the sake of it, if you want to learn go ask a pro thats what he did. Spot on in my opinion. Dig

 

[gugubica]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Best advice I can give...

Don't poke the boltripper.

I know I am going to sond like an ass with the folowing...sorry, but it needs to be said:

You are doing so many things wrong, I don't even know where to begin. You would do well to spend a lot of time reading on here. Do searches for everything- base mounting, rings, cleaning, tourque, etc.

It does sound like your problem is scope related, but you would be adviced to start at the source. Make sure your base is level...make sure your rings are true, make sure everything is tight to spec. Remmington recievers are notorious for being untrue. Make sure you have a good platform to start from.

If you likee your rifles, it is money well spent to get the right tools to protect them. Get a tourque wrench, get a bore guide.

Best of luck in your quest.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

You don't sound like an ass at all gugubica, I understand where you're coming from. I know that a lot of people on this forum buy all of the best of the best stuff, and all of the accessories for that. Well I unfortunately can't afford that. I only allowed myself to buy the gun because I got it for $400 new in the box with taxes and got the scope for about $125. Now you might read this and say "Well then you have no business shooting" That's fine but what about other millions of people who have been hunting and shooting for decades with a simple set up like I have. A lot of people don't even know what a bore guide is for bolt guns. A lot of people don't think cheap rings are a problem. They are still able to shoot alright groups at 100 yards and take deer every year with their rifle.

Now I have no doubt that buying torque wrenches, bore guides, ANOTHER set of rings even though the Z's are highly recommended would be absolutely necessary to shoot the tightest groups possible if I were looking to shoot in matches. Over time I may buy these things, but right now all I really want is my 1.5" accuracy back out of the rifle.

I came on here to see what all of you guys with experience collectively thought the most likely problem was. That seems to be the scope, and it's the first thing I'll look at. Maybe it's a loose base, if it is I'll rule out the scope and move on to that. I know a lot of you guys think I'm dumb or I "can't hang with the big dogs" because I'm not buying all of this stuff right now, but it just doesn't add up to me that Remington can't make two holes line up on their receiver and that all the people who bought Remington 700's have bought all of these things and foxed all of it's flaws just to get mediocre 1.5 MOA accuracy.

I'd like to again say thank you and I will take all of your suggestions and look at the scope, look at the bases and then break everything down if I have to. I don;t mean to sound stubborn but it just seems like a lot more work than it should be to have an average gun you know? Thanks guys.

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

I agree, there's no need to blow $3000++ on a custom rifle and scope for a relatively new shooter. Many many deer have fallen to a $25 surplus mauser with iron sights. Your setup should be just fine for 1.5moa deer hunting and paper punching for fun. The Bushnell 3200 series scopes are a great value for the $$$ spent, you just got a bad one. For you to go from 1 1/2" groups to 5 or 6", the scope went south on you. You'll get it right. Your burris rings will be just fine for your scope, I've shot some silly good groups with burris rings. I have since invested in higher quality gear, but it took me years of marksmanship training to get my groups small enough to notice the difference.

 

[gugubica]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

To be fair, a 4 inch group is just fine for most deer hunters.

Nobody thinks any less of you for using value setups.

If you came here for knowledge, use it.

You have the right mindset if you want you setup to be as accurate as possible.

There is no substitute for knowledge and practice. Start out with the best of each and it will pay off.

Certain tools are recommended or required to accomplish certain goals. These include a torque wrench and a bore guide. They are cheap.

 

[Joel989]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Canis: The rifle shot well on your first outing. Second time it went south. Something changed. Scope, maybe. But check it out and be sure to let us know what you find. You’ll find that most of the guys here will try and help. Good luck.

Yes: I’m getting my post count up! Haha

 

[MBass300]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Canis, depending on where in NY you are, I might not be too far from you. If you don't know anyone locally that can help (like myself when I joined this forum) I'd be happy to meet up with you to see if we can get to the bottom of your problem.
I have several scopes that I know track perfectly, so we could throw one on and work from there.

The thing I found when I first joined the Hide, is that most of the people I know locally that shoot were not really that knowledgeable when it came to firearms, optics, ammo, etc...
Most of the folks on the Hide are either a) exteremely knowledgeable, or b) are very serious about becoming so. I consider myself somewhere in the middle, more on the latter end. Before I joined the forum, I bought a $14 set of scope rings at Wally World because I didn't know the difference.
As I learn more and more, I become aware of what works and what doesn't. I am finding my own "balance" between quality and economy. If you can deal with the occasional "quick" answer, you can really learn more in a short time on the Hide, than some "average" folks do in a lifetime.

Send me a PM if I can be of help.
Welcome to the Hide,
Matt

 

[pupdawg]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

canis-

You buy the best you can afford. In this case where the scope cost you $125, but may have failed, it is now useless unless you can get it warrantied.

Even at that, whats to say its not going to fail again? Then you need to send it back and it ends up being nothing more than a $125 hassle.

Now I'm not saying you need to get a $3000 scope, but do a little research here and see what's out there as far as scopes in your price range. SWFA SS for example.

All it takes is a little discipline in saving your money and you can afford what you couldn't afford 6 months ago. It's the justification of spending that some can't accept... not really what they can't afford. Of course everyone has their own limits but that's where it stops.

So back to "you buy the best you can afford" really means... you buy the best you can save for. The "best" will vary from opinion but at least it'll be good opinion.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Well pupdawg, if you want to be exact it's really that I don't know if I can afford to have a scope instead of $400 in the future. With the way the economy is going and all I save more money than I otherwise would. If I had bought a Tasco scope I wouldn't disagree at all that I need to spend more. But the scope I bought has 38 ratings on MidwayUSA at over 4.5/5 stars, and is rated the same (although with only 2 reviews) on SWFA. On all websites this scope was mentioned again and again. Almost everyone who tried one loved it, with the only complaints being that its glass wasn't as good as ones a few hundred dollars more, and that it wasn't 30mm and therefore not really rugged enough for "tactical fieldwork". Well guess how often I need to do that?

What the scope DOES have is the style and magnification I wanted, with rainguard which is pretty cool and a lifetime warranty (good thing). It's also at a decent price. While I have looked into the SS, since the new HD came out I kind of felt like if I get an SS I should get the HD because it's so much better. But that's $800. So I could get the $400 model but from what I've heard the glass quality isn't much better then the 3200. I'm sure it's more rugged, but I don;t really need it to be. Unless every 3200 breaks from normal treatment, which I'm sure it doesn't because of the ratings. If the scope is the problem I'll get a new one with the warranty or have it fixed. if there is another problem I'll get the SS if my gun will shoot right with it on lol.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Semor gunz, thank you so much for the offer. That was very kind of you. I live in the Albany area of NY, but yesterday I was lucky enough to have a co-worker offer to use a spare Nikon or Leupold scope (he doesn't remember which is off his guns) to test out the gun. Hopefully this will solve my problem. Thanks again for the offer.

 

[MBass300]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

No problem, Canis.
Hopefully it turns out the scope is the problem, and bushnell will just replace it for you and everything will be back to normal. Let us know how you make out.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...some of the folks here have oodles of experience which is difficult to find elsewhere, but they know it and act like they know it.</div></div>

"A 'please' would be nice"

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[sobrbiker883]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

As said before, try a known good scope. It sounds like the scope went south, but it takes alot to do that to the Bushie 10X3200MD's. If that's not possible, have someone else shoot the rifle (after you've checked everything), perhaps you've had a seixure and can't shoot 1.5moa anymore.

Assuming a factory budget build is going to shoot best when you've scrubbeed all the copper out of the bore is a mistake, and could be half you problem.

Check everything's tightness, then shoot a box of crap through it. Once fouled shoot five or so FGMM or comparable match 168's through it. Then shoot the FGMM for accuracy.


-just posting to bump my count.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Alright, a co-worker friend of mine lent me a Leupold Mark AR 3-9x40 scope. I just removed the Elite 3200 from the rifle, tightened down the bases a slight amount, degreased the Signature Z rings again (somehow there was a small amount of lube in the threads although the ring screws were tight when I started to unscrew them.) Degreased all the inserts and scope mounting surfaces in case oil got on it from my skin. I used alcohol prep pads for all degreasing. I then mounted the Leupold in the rings and tightened each screw little by little and finished with 1/4 turn past what I could do with the short end of the allen key.

I think before I posted that I had Remington bases, but I believe they are the cheap Leupold rifleman bases. Although these bases are cheap, I was curious as to how they could cause accuracy problems? The screws on the bottom of the Zee rings fit to the top of these weaver bases, and if everything is tightened what can go wrong? Apparently something or you guys wouldn't spend $200 on Badger stuff.

As a side not the Leupold scope looks to be about the same clarity as the 3200. Looking down the street I could read some things a little easier with the 3200, probably because of the slight magnification difference. I know the scope is made for .223s, but I assume it will hold up to .308 alright as I found a post saying Leupold tests them on 300 win mags. I'll take it to the range tomorrow and post again.

 

[jagged77]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Mate, I've had a similar problem to you. Rifle was 300WM mounted with Leopold two piece base and Warne rings. Scope was same as yours - Elite 3200 10 x 40.
I must have put 100 rounds or so down range before I noticed loss of zero and the elevation and windage turrets failing to move POI. Looking though the scope I turned the turrets all the way up and down with no change.
When the scope was taken off it regained its full function.
I isolated the problem to mismatched bases that caused so much stress in the 1" tube to stop proper function. The mismatch on the bases were easily identified by holding a straight edge (metal ruler) to check for horizontal alignment. Fortunately they were only a stop-gap before my MOA rail arrived and problem solved.

 

[Joel989]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

That could be the problem! Worth checking.

 

[Chiller]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Gota love ya Bolt......

ok:

Action bolts tight to spec?
Any possible bedding issues?

Scope rings:
Pushed forward?
Cross Bolts to torque spec?
Reng bolts to spec?

The scope rail is it to torque spec?
have you bedded the rail?

dont shoot groups, run a box test.

When you clean it any damage to the crown?
How often do you clean it? (many people do it too much)

Try a new scope..??

ooooo ya....and thank you for allowing me to bump my post count....

 

[Chiller]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

come on.....everyone likes to needle Bolt.....

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[jdgray]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Man.....I read all this to see the outcome, and shit, I gotta wait another day

Good luck!! If that scope is less than a year old, Bushnell will give your money back if you want it. Hard to beat that!

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jagged77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mate, I've had a similar problem to you. Rifle was 300WM mounted with Leopold two piece base and Warne rings. Scope was same as yours - Elite 3200 10 x 40.
I must have put 100 rounds or so down range before I noticed loss of zero and the elevation and windage turrets failing to move POI. Looking though the scope I turned the turrets all the way up and down with no change.
When the scope was taken off it regained its full function.
I isolated the problem to mismatched bases that caused so much stress in the 1" tube to stop proper function. The mismatch on the bases were easily identified by holding a straight edge (metal ruler) to check for horizontal alignment. Fortunately they were only a stop-gap before my MOA rail arrived and problem solved.

</div></div>

When you checked for this alignment how did you hold the ruler? Did you rest it flat on the side of one of the base pieces and look straight down at the top of the base to see if it was straight? Thanks.

 

[Badshot308]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

One way to check for misalignment is to set the scope in the rings and tighten one ring at a time while leaving the other loose. Watch to see if the scope tries to lift out of the other ring. If it does, you have an issue. Your Burris Signature Z rings should have inserts that can be rotated to compensate for this problem so some degree. A lot of people like a good quality one piece base to eliminate this type of problem. If your base and receiver don't mate up properly with a one piece base, you just bed the base.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Re: R700 sudden loss in accuracy

Great idea badshot. After or maybe during my trip to the range tomorrow I will try both of the alignment assessment suggestions. It would be fine with me if it were just the base. I was looking at the picatinny EGW base anyway.