Radio recommendations

[Apothus]

My buddy and I are looking to get a couple radios to keep in the trucks for communication when out in the woods and exploring the various canyons and some small caverns in the area. I started looking on Amazon but this is one area I have zero knowledge in. We have access to radios we use on the church security team but we tried them less then 2 miles apart the other day and couldn't even receive static.

So what we are looking for is good quality sound, reliable, and acceptable distance. I don't even know what to expect as acceptable? 2 miles, 5? We don't need a billion channels, doesn't have to be water proof to 600 feet or anything. Oh ya, we want it to be possible to use something like a lapelle mic and pigtail earpiece so we can talk quietly and have the sound go no further than our ear.

Of course it has to do all this for $10. Just kidding, quality comes at a price, but we are simple tradesmen with families and homes to pay for so nothing that's stupid expensive please

 

[Luke]

FRS radios from Walmart/Target/Cabelas/Bass Pro, etc. will be the easiest and least expensive option, but range will be seriously lacking. If you want/need better performance amateur (ham) radio will get the job done, but it requires taking a test and getting licensed (easy to do).

 

[mystryak]

I agree with the ham radio route its easy. And you can get them relatively affordable.

 

[MarinePMI]

HAM radios (HF) will give better distance due to the wave propagation inherent in the HF waveform. That being said, it has it's own draw backs as well (atmospherics, dead spots, distortion, etc.). GRMS integrated with GPS radios seem to have worked well for me (Garmin Rino), but again, range is a limiting factor. FCC regs aside, there is only so much wattage that can be pumped out of a handheld device running off four AA batteries. Still, having a radio with GPS built in, let's a couple guys stay in contact as well as know where the other person(s) are located.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The unlicensed bands / radios are very limited the moment you are out of line of sight.
Study, learn the rules, take the cheap test & then get some licensed band radios that will actually work well.

 

[plong]

Inexpensive Standard Horizon VHF programmed for unlicensed MURS frequencies is my usual recommendation when this question comes up. Programming will take a modest amount of research, and be an even more modest bit of work, but you'll have a very reliable coms option.

MURS (VHF) is gonna do a much better job in the terrain you described than GMRS (UHF). A VHF signal will "bend" over the terrain much more so than UHF, which will do a better job in a urban setting, in and around buildings. (I have and use both...)

HAM HF is a wonderful hobby, but IMHO is way beyond the scope of OP's original question...

Edit to add: in short order you're gonna get a thousand or so recommendations to get yourself a couple of $40.00 ChiCom HTs (Pofung, et al.) If you're new to two way radio, that's absolutely, positively, not where I'd recommend you start. The ChiCom HTs have their place, but for sooooo many reasons, that's not where I'd advise someone new to coms start.

 

[The King]

1. Handhelds don't work well in cars -but an external antenna helps.
2. There isn't a handheld made I would trust at 5 miles. Unless you have a massive base station, like a police dispatch office.
3. Get a ham license so you can get better stuff.
4, Look up MURS.

 

[plong]

1. Handhelds don't work well in cars -but an external antenna helps.
2. There isn't a handheld made I would trust at 5 miles. Unless you have a massive base station, like a police dispatch office.
3. Get a ham license so you can get better stuff.
4, Look up MURS.

Sorry.... But I just can't agree with many of your broad generalizations....

1. Yes, you'll do better with an external antenna when using a HT in a vehicle, but that's really easy to execute, even for a novice user.
2. Strongly disagree... to moderately agree, very terrain dependent. We often get acceptable performance with our MURS and GMRS HTs (different conditions) at 5 miles, plus or minus, other times... Not so much.
3. Better stuff...? I'd say have more options, higher power, etc. But VHF is VHF, UHF is UHF... HAM or not. I'm all for suggesting getting a HAM license for those so inclined. But I hate it when folks suggest the only way to have reliable coms over modest distances is to get a HAM ticket.
4. If you're suggesting MURS as a viable option for OP, then, yes... I'd agree ?

 

[SLG]

Inexpensive Standard Horizon VHS programmed for unlicensed MURS frequencies is my usual recommendation when this question comes up. Programming will take a modest amount of research, and be an even more modest bit of work, but you'll have a very reliable coms option.

MURS (VHF) is gonna do a much better job in the terrain you described than GMRS (UHF). A VHF signal will "bend" over the terrain much more so than UHF, which will do a better job in a urban setting, in and around buildings. (I have and use both...)

HAM HF is a wonderful hobby, but IMHO is way beyond the scope of OP's original question...

Edit to add: in short order you're gonna get a thousand or so recommendations to get yourself a couple of $40.00 ChiCom HTs (Pofung, et al.) If you're new to two way radio, that's absolutely, positively, not where I'd recommend you start. The ChiCom HTs have their place, but for sooooo many reasons, that's not where I'd advise someone new to coms to start.

So is there a model radio you recommend for these criteria?

 

[Sogan]

Sorry.... But I just can't agree with many of your broad generalizations....

1. Yes, you'll do better with an external antenna when using a HT in a vehicle, but that's really eddy to execute, even for a novice user.
2. Strongly disagree... to moderately agree, very terrain dependent. We often get acceptable performance with our MURS and GMRS HTs (different conditions) at 5 miles, plus or minus, other times... Not so much.
3. Better stuff...? I'd say have more options, higher power, etc. But VHF is VHF, UHF is UHF... HAM or not. I'm all for suggesting getting a HAM license for those so inclined. But I hate it when folks suggest the only way to have reliable coms over modest distances is to get a HAM ticket.
4. If you're suggesting MURS as a viable option for OP, then, yes... I'd agree ?

Very interested in what radio you recommend that is legal without needing the Ham license for the few times a year they will be needed for me

 

[Strykervet]

I agree with the ham radio route its easy. And you can get them relatively affordable.

Yep, ham. Only way to go.

My father was into it BIG TIME (he was also a star wars engineer and designed and built a LOT of his own gear, some very high speed shit) I was supposed to test morse but it never happened, family fell apart first. The range on 'em is global and this can be realized by Joe operating a radio out of a closet with a tall antenna and maybe an amplifier.

If you know what you are doing (and I don't know, maybe they have this now) you can call telephones on the ham radio too. Caveat is you have to talk like you're on a radio, over and shit, but it's free otherwise! My father did this, setup his home radio to call out on land lines, then used his portable ham radio, the walkie talkie, to access it all. He was an electronics engineer and this was his hobby.

Note that ham radio is a hobby every bit as complex, expensive and as intense as firearms are, so it would help if you have someone who knows how to navigate a "hamfest" and attend one and buy your gear there. Hamfest is like a gunshow but with radios, unlike gunshows, not everything is overpriced junk (LOTS of parts!). Make sure to find someone to go with that knows the scene so you get what you need for the best deal. Ideally, this guy should be able to test you or at least train you for the test, and you can even take the tests at the hamfest, so it's really a one stop shop. The tests, as I recall years ago, were in different levels and started with morse code and ended with voice. Not sure how fast they want you to code morse before reaching voice. I understand it's changed since the 30+ years ago I messed with it.

Note everyone using these will need to take that test and get a license and a callsign (KIS4Y was my father's for instance). You have to follow FCC guidelines too and wanna avoid pissing neighbors off with your radio (which may be alleviated in the digital age though).

Good luck!

Once you have it, you can setup a base radio, setup repeaters, organize with others to create a network, and you'll have a solid comms network. Throw in one time pads and you'll have encrypted comms that cannot be broken.

 

[The King]

For exact models i recommend the VHF Yaesu or Icom radios setup to run on MURS.

if you go HAM it opens the door to 50w vehicle mounted setups with good antennnas to work with. i think it’s part of the reason most of us recommend a HAM setup - you can do HF for actual good LR comms and the whole 2m and 440 spectrum opens up to your usage.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

PRC-25 or 77

 

[MarinePMI]

PRC-25 or 77

Fuck. That.

I humped more miles than I can count with one of those turds on my back (77 + Ky-57 crypto), sometimes with an additional radio strapped to the outside of the pack (LST-4 SATCOM) and antenna (PSC-3 IIRC). 20+ lbs of extra shit is not what I would want these days. Even the current PRC-117G is 10lbs without batteries, and that is a soft waveform radio (multi-frequency; VHF, HF with PSK (frequency hopping) and CPM (data link)).

For a civilian, as Plong mentioned, there are better options. It's been a while since I keyed, but it used to be 15 words a minute transmit, and 14 words a minute receive to pass the test (but this was like 30yrs ago, when the Corps still had a morse/telegraph school). And every one learns it at a different rate (even the school was "self-paced", being from 6-10 weeks). I can still remember waking in the middle of the night hearing dit's and dah's in my sleep. LOL! I remember being shocked when watching the movie "The Battle of Midway" and realizing the "morse code noise" in the background, was actually morse code of the message/"yellow canary" being displayed...

Whenever someone says "break" on the phone (POTS line) or radio, I still hear (in my head) "dah-di-di-dit, dah-dee-dah" (BK). Anyone else still remember their "Q's and Z's"? (sorry for the slight highjack).

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

My buddy and I are looking to get a couple radios to keep in the trucks for communication when out in the woods and exploring the various canyons and some small caverns in the area. I started looking on Amazon but this is one area I have zero knowledge in. We have access to radios we use on the church security team but we tried them less then 2 miles apart the other day and couldn't even receive static.

So what we are looking for is good quality sound, reliable, and acceptable distance. I don't even know what to expect as acceptable? 2 miles, 5? We don't need a billion channels, doesn't have to be water proof to 600 feet or anything. Oh ya, we want it to be possible to use something like a lapelle mic and pigtail earpiece so we can talk quietly and have the sound go no further than our ear.

Of course it has to do all this for $10. Just kidding, quality comes at a price, but we are simple tradesmen with families and homes to pay for so nothing that's stupid expensive please

Nothing off the shelf is going to fit your need w/o a license, w/o some help. You could build small repeater's an have them hidden, powered via solar but that cost will be up there. Off the shelf stuff that operates on 20 meters to micro wave freqs are useless for what your after w/ canyons involved. Flat dirt is a none issue with cheap stuff an a quality antenna opposed to what they come with.
NVIS gear will be required to fill all your canyon requirements an that is a radio that operates in the 30 to 160 meter band which is neither small, cheap, an requires a license. A 30 meter CW only radio is easily built an a key can be made into it as well. Some of the guys have made them so small they will fit into a Altiod's can an powdered via a 9 Vdc battery, but even these require a license. The best radio mentioned so for that fits all your requirements is the PRC 77.

 

[plong]

So is there a model radio you recommend for these criteria?

Used to recommend the Standard Horizon HX370S for this role. Download a copy of the programming software (CE68) from the same-named Yahoo forum, program the MURS frequencies and go... Since it appears the HX370S has been discontinued I'd probably look to the HX380 or 400. Looks like you can pick-up a HX380 for < $125.00 right now on Amazon, the programming software is going to set you back about $50.00. These radios are going to be really nice build quality, darn-near mil-spec, much nicer than any of the ChiCom HTs.

 

[plong]

For exact models i recommend the VHF Yaesu or Icom radios setup to run on MURS.

if you go HAM it opens the door to 50w vehicle mounted setups with good antennnas to work with. i think it’s part of the reason most of us recommend a HAM setup - you can do HF for actual good LR comms and the whole 2m and 440 spectrum opens up to your usage.

A Yaesu HT won't operate on MURS frequencies without a hardware hack (the so-called MARS/CAP mod), they're going to be HAM frequencies only for transmit. Standard Horizon used to be Yaesu's sister company, along with Vertex Standard (they've since been broken-up/sold...) It was Yaesu for HAM, Standard Horizon for Marine, and Vertex Standard for LMR-Business bands. All excellent build quality. You are correct that Icom is another quality brand.

Re. higher watt mobile options: you can go up to 50 watt mobile with GMRS (UHF), although most UHF mobiles will actually be 40 watt. I have an Icom business-band mobile programmed for GMRS in my Jeep that we pair-up with a couple of Vertex Standard hand-helds. GMRS does require a license, but there's no test, just sign-up online (FCC), pay the fee, and have your license in a day or two. Last time I checked it was $70 to cover your entire family for 10 years. Great option if, like me, your wife is never, ever, ever... going to pursue a HAM ticket.

 

[plong]

One disclaimer re. all of the above: none of the radios listed are going to be letter-of-the-law legal for use on their respective MURS/GMRS bands. Both MURS and GMRS are FCC 47 C.F.R, Part 95. The radios listed, while they most-definitely satisfy the technical requirements of Part 95 (spurious emissions, harmonics, bandwidth etc.), have not been Part 95-certified by their respective manufacturers (they are all Part 90 certified). There are, unfortunately, no real quality radio options certified for either Part 95 service at this time. (There is one ChiCom HT that has, allegedly, been Part 95 certified, but said certification has been called into question more than once over the past 18 months +-).

 

[Nik H]

My buddy and I are looking to get a couple radios to keep in the trucks for communication when out in the woods and exploring the various canyons and some small caverns in the area. I started looking on Amazon but this is one area I have zero knowledge in. We have access to radios we use on the church security team but we tried them less then 2 miles apart the other day and couldn't even receive static.

So what we are looking for is good quality sound, reliable, and acceptable distance. I don't even know what to expect as acceptable? 2 miles, 5? We don't need a billion channels, doesn't have to be water proof to 600 feet or anything. Oh ya, we want it to be possible to use something like a lapelle mic and pigtail earpiece so we can talk quietly and have the sound go no further than our ear.

Of course it has to do all this for $10. Just kidding, quality comes at a price, but we are simple tradesmen with families and homes to pay for so nothing that's stupid expensive please

Get a ham license

If you want to learn about field radio equipment, go over here. They know more about the subject than I have seen elsewhere and you will learn a lot about doing it cheap

Brushbeater

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you are looking at radios on Amazon / eBay, check out Ham Radio Outlet as well, they often have sale prices that beat the sellers online.

Getting a license for the basic HAM entry level stuff is much easier today & there is now CW (Morse) test required. Just study the books or listen to them on audio & then go find a local place to take the test and it's very cheap (just a testing fee, no government fee).

Some guys I know were doing hunting in mixed hilly / valley / wooded terrain and all the handhelds they tried just didn't go anywhere, then when they tried some handhelds (cheap CH ones) using the better bands, the range was amazingly better.

 

[BravoSierra]

Couple of years ago I bought 4 Icom 4011's. Rugged, with excellent range despite trees and terrain. GMRS. Really great unit of high quality that I can't recommend enough.

 

[plong]

Couple of years ago I bought 4 Icom 4011's. Rugged, with excellent range despite trees and terrain. GMRS. Really great unit of high quality that I can't recommend enough.

Hard to argue against anything Icom . The IC3011 would be the VHF twin (for MURS), if one was so inclined.

 

[BravoSierra]

I was tired of replacing bubble pack radios every year. That should tell you something about them. The Icom's have actually saved me money despite the upcharge on the initial buy. Buy once cry once applies here. And really, they aren't too bad if you look around.