Railroad Strike Imminent

Bigfatcock

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I have experience running trains. I feel like putting in a joke application just to see if they call back wanting to know about my experience, lol.
 

Redmanss

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Redmanss

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Here’s the biggest issue at hand, at least as far as I’m concerned. A while back Obama issued an executive order stating all federal contractors must annually offer at least 56 hours paid sick leave to all employees. The Class 1 railroads decided at that time they aren’t federal contractors, only that the federal government is a customer, and they were exempt from the order.

Last year when Biden issued the executive order mandating Covid shots for all federal contractors, now all the sudden the railroads decide they are federal contractors and push the mandate onto us, get the shot (and we’ll give you $300 for caving your morals) or get fired style.

That only stopped when the judges placed the injunction onto the mandate, which was then lifted this past August, yet now the railroads are hush hush on enforcement while bargaining is going down.

Now I’m no lawyer, yet I don’t agree we’re a federal contractor, only moving material for the feds, primarily military equipment. They’re a customer, nothing more. Yet the railroads want to pick and choose what we are based solely on their own $$$ interests while completely disregarding ours. They don’t get it both ways.

I fully expect the clot shot push will come back once Congress shoves a contract down our throats with zero sick pay. I’ll continue to refuse the shot and force them to fire me, at which time I’ll find a labor attorney and take them to court to really decide the matter. I will not be alone in this endeavor, guaranteed.
 

LeftyJason

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    Here’s the biggest issue at hand, at least as far as I’m concerned. A while back Obama issued an executive order stating all federal contractors must annually offer at least 56 hours paid sick leave to all employees. The Class 1 railroads decided at that time they aren’t federal contractors, only that the federal government is a customer, and they were exempt from the order.

    Last year when Biden issued the executive order mandating Covid shots for all federal contractors, now all the sudden the railroads decide they are federal contractors and push the mandate onto us, get the shot (and we’ll give you $300 for caving your morals) or get fired style.

    That only stopped when the judges placed the injunction onto the mandate, which was then lifted this past August, yet now the railroads are hush hush on enforcement while bargaining is going down.

    Now I’m no lawyer, yet I don’t agree we’re a federal contractor, only moving material for the feds, primarily military equipment. They’re a customer, nothing more. Yet the railroads want to pick and choose what we are based solely on their own $$$ interests while completely disregarding ours. They don’t get it both ways.

    I fully expect the clot shot push will come back once Congress shoves a contract down our throats with zero sick pay. I’ll continue to refuse the shot and force them to fire me, at which time I’ll find a labor attorney and take them to court to really decide the matter. I will not be alone in this endeavor, guaranteed.
    Thanks for the explanation. I'm not railroad but I used to ship consumable parts at an old job, and my BIL is a conductor/ engineer. Don't remember which he is doing now but he is trained for both.
     
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    Redmanss

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    Thanks for the explanation. I'm not railroad but I used to ship consumable parts at an old job, and my BIL is a conductor/ engineer. Don't remember which he is doing now but he is trained for both.
    Theirs has a whole additional argument of attendance policies that has yet to be fleshed out. The carriers dropped much of the worst parts, but we all believe they will bring them right back after all is said and done, just like the clot shots.

    We have zero trust and all skepticism for corporate management right now. They’re on same the level of a two timing wife who says they won’t suck anyone else’s dick after blowing the Dallas Cowboys on film.
     

    salks

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    Meanwhile they will post pics of brand new offices with gyms, daycare ect. I know a couple guys who meet in a rat infested trailer every morning...
     

    Redmanss

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    Meanwhile they will post pics of brand new offices with gyms, daycare ect. I know a couple guys who meet in a rat infested trailer every morning...
    They have to plead and grovel to get the soft hands out of work from home mode, but when my water pump takes a shit on the 12 year old piece of shit work truck I had stranding me in the middle of a blizzard on the way to a service interruption, I’m the bad guy.
     

    salks

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    They have to plead and grovel to get the soft hands out of work from home mode, but when my water pump takes a shit on the 12 year old piece of shit work truck I had stranding me in the middle of a blizzard on the way to a service interruption, I’m the bad guy.
    Yep lucky you dont lose your job over something like that. Thats the stuff people dont understand.
     

    BullGear

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    My son is heading over to do a multinational stop over in Europe right after Thanksgiving. He's now hearing that there may be a rail strike there too. Something about Brussels and other countries being involved.
     
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    Redmanss

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    sirhrmechanic

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    Just in time for Christmas!

    So if the Railroads are not fed contractors…. And we are not at war… what power does fed have to force an end to strike?

    Curious. And once things come to a stop… do they start back up “easily?” Seems to me the RR’s are a very tightly-run system… almost organized chaos. And once “stopped” do not start right up again.

    How does a strike play out? I can’t remember a time when a major “system” like this stopped in the US for any extended period. Maybe regional things (anyone remember the garbage strikes in NYC?). But that was regional.

    I remember stupid entertainment strikes… Hollywood writers and NFL. But no one cares. We all watched re-runs and who cares about baseball?

    But this one is potentially interesting for the ripple effect. Crystal balls folks… what does it look like?

    Sirhr
     
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    Redmanss

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    No strike would be long, most enduring one since WWII was four days, and others hours to a day or two.

    Railways are governed not by NLRB rules on striking, but by the Railway Labor Act, and at anytime Congress can step in to order labor back to laboring or carriers to end a lockout. It’s all part of the processes of railroad contract negotiations, and is far from an exception to being the end of negotiations.

    Impact of shutdown to startup all depends on moves the carriers make in the days leading up to a potential work stoppage, such as cutting off routes and pickups in the name of security. Hazmat, sure, but they cut off far more just to force hands of the government.

    The whole process is as amicable as a divorce, and we go through it every five years. All I want is the carriers, at least mine anyhow, to flat out state “Were not a fed contractor, are terminating all fed contracts we have (which are very minimal), and there will be no Covid vax order or paid sick days as a result.”

    We’ll keep coming to work sick, just as we always have, but we won’t be forced to receive a medical treatment against our will or be fired for it when we refuse.
     

    Redmanss

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    HA! Nailed it!………
    Congress stopping any strike was always a guarantee, it happens every, single, time. Still has zero comparison to the ATC strike.

    Congress will order railroad workers back to the tracks once again, the only power they hold. Reagan ordered the air traffic controllers to break the picket line or head to the unemployment line and banned every single one from ever working in the trade again, the power he held.

    Think freight traffic is congested and slow now because of western railroads' understaffing? Just wait until all the trainmen get ordered to get in line for their clot shots right after getting their back pay. California terminals hasn't seen carrier embargoes like what will be coming next year.

    A railroad stock would not be in my transportation sector portfolio right now.
     

    lariat

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    @Redmanss i have an honest question: if the situation is so untenable (and I believe your assessment of the situation), why doesn’t everyone just quit? If it is that bad, why are the employees waiting on the union instead of just finding another job? I suspect I know the answer but I could be wrong so I’m willing to sit and listen.
     
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    Redmanss

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    @Redmanss i have an honest question: if the situation is so untenable (and I believe your assessment of the situation), why doesn’t everyone just quit? If it is that bad, why are the employees waiting on the union instead of just finding another job? I suspect I know the answer but I could be wrong so I’m willing to sit and listen.
    The usual, it pays well, is stable, good retirement, good benefits otherwise. Railroaders are proud, hard working men and even quite a few women. It’s like military with a hard hat though, you earn what you get through a lot of sacrifice of family and personal life. You live where you likely don’t want to, can’t move without sacrificing all seniority and putting yourself first in line to get furloughed. Many know down to the day how long they have to retirement.

    A lot are in remote areas where job alternatives are limited, especially for the pay level. So they suffer.

    I’m used to the suck, just won’t be forced to do anything against my will.
     

    Redmanss

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    Wabtec and Herzog seem to get a lot of Railroaders to leave RRs. I’m sure there are others too.
    Absolutely they do, but they're both limited in size and location, comparatively, and their treatment of employees can be/is shit as well, especially for their traveling crews. Short lines are far better for the most part, but again limited in size and often pay quite a bit less, especially freight lines.

    Yeah, I found out after talking to a buddy who works security for the railroads. I had no idea, doesnt seem "constitutional"
    It's been through SCOTUS and upheld a few times over the last century, the basis being Congress does have authority over interstate commerce in the Constitution and with rail being a sole means of trade for some industries, I do see the premise of ensuring no single entity (unions or carriers) being able to shut out other businesses from access.

    Excerpt of Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution: "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;"

    Recently, the carriers have been dancing the edges of that, severely, and trade groups have brought their complaints to the Surface Transportation Board who have been hammering the carriers over their inefficiencies, embargoes and restrictive servicing in the name of Precision Scheduled Railroading.

    Quiet quitting is the new thing
    My job responsibilities are ensuring trains don't run into each other, don't drop on the ground, and that RR crossings function properly to alert our families so they don't get smoked by trains. I don't care how bad shit gets, I'm not "quiet quitting" in any way, shape or form.
     
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    rjacobs

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    Yeah, I found out after talking to a buddy who works security for the railroads. I had no idea, doesnt seem "constitutional"

    Neither are taxes, NFA, etc... but here we are none the less.

    I work under the RLA also somehow...even though I fly airplanes... I mean, ive never seen a rail line run through an airport... but who knows... national strategic asset or some such...
     
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    Redmanss

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    Neither are taxes, NFA, etc... but here we are none the less.

    I work under the RLA also somehow...even though I fly airplanes... I mean, ive never seen a rail line run through an airport... but who knows... national strategic asset or some such...
    That one I really don't get, how airlines got roped into that bullshit somehow.

    Of course, I do know how. Control.
     

    cnwrobb

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    The resolution passed by the House is simply a suggestion and by no means a law or is it enforceable in a court of law. Democrats are acting like they care about the rail workers plight. Even if Senate passes the same resolution and Biden signs it, the railroads would still have to negotiate with the unions and rank and file members would have to vote to ratify contract…if not collective bargaining will cease to exist. I predict a strike will occur albeit a relatively short one until both sides will be forced to negotiate again.
     

    BoilerUP

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    Congress can absolutely impose a contract under the RLA, a contract that would cause any work stoppage to be characterized as a "wildcat strike". Whether Congress should or not is another matter entirely.
    Democrats are really showing their ass with organized labor, and in this case, Biden has removed every ounce of leverage the unions have for negotiation by outright asking Congress to impose the "tentative agreement" as though TAs somehow can't get voted down. Should have let them strike for at least a day before making this happen, to get both sides closer to an agreement. I saw an article that said unions asked for 15 paid sick days and the mediated agreement had one; 3-5 to avoid a stoppage doesn't exactly seem like a massive-ass compromise.

    Regardless of what anybody thinks about Uncle Joe, his statement on this issue was one of the most paternalistic, gaslighting things I've ever seen from a politician..."I'm the most pro-labor President in history, but I'm going to ensure this contract gets forced down the throats of the unions who democratically voted against it so they can enjoy its benefits".
     
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    wade2big

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    Congress can absolutely impose a contract under the RLA, a contract that would cause any work stoppage to be characterized as a "wildcat strike". Whether Congress should or not is another matter entirely.
    Democrats are really showing their ass with organized labor, and in this case, Biden has removed every ounce of leverage the unions have for negotiation by outright asking Congress to impose the "tentative agreement" as though TAs somehow can't get voted down. Should have let them strike for at least a day before making this happen, to get both sides closer to an agreement. I saw an article that said unions asked for 15 paid sick days and the mediated agreement had one; 3-5 to avoid a stoppage doesn't exactly seem like a massive-ass compromise.

    Regardless of what anybody thinks about Uncle Joe, his statement on this issue was one of the most paternalistic, gaslighting things I've ever seen from a politician..."I'm the most pro-labor President in history, but I'm going to ensure this contract gets forced down the throats of the unions who democratically voted against it so they can enjoy its benefits".
    15 sick days. 😂
     

    rjacobs

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    That one I really don't get, how airlines got roped into that bullshit somehow.

    Of course, I do know how. Control.

    Interstate commerce. It was done under the guise of mail delivery something or other in 1936 I believe it was. I read a book on it once.

    It seems almost all of the big fuckings we have taken as a country in the last 100+ years have all been under the guise of "well we can regulate it because its interstate commerce"...
     

    rjacobs

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    15 sick days. 😂

    You laughing because you think thats to much or not enough?

    I accrue about 120-140 hours of sick pay per year up to a max of 1600 hours. Thats about 18-21 days a year that I accrue. We accrue at a rate of 10% of hours worked so if you work harder you can accrue a bit more or if you work less you accrue less. If I have an accident outside of work and I break an arm(leg, whatever) and am out say 2 months, for ME thats about 24-30 actual work days(12-15 work days in a given month), so it would take me close to 2 years, once I came back to work, to re-accrue that sick leave. I think our 10% a month system is fair, but it wouldnt necessarily work everywhere.

    As far as the railroads asking for 15 days, what is one of their work schedules like? Do they go out for 7-14 days at a time? I mean 15 sounds like "a lot" for an office worker that might need to take 2-3 days here or there, but is close to home and can evaluate daily and tomorrow they feel good so they head back to work 15-20 minutes drive from their house. For somebody that works a 7-14+ day rotation, how do you get back to work? Or can you? Or does the company say "oh here's your 5 days of sick pay and fuck you on the other 10 days you missed because you couldnt get back to work"... I really dont know how their whole system works, but I assume its the later of "fuck you"...
     

    Redmanss

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    15 sick days. 😂
    The fifteen days were a bargaining position just like at a used car dealer, fully expected to get whittled down. Same as the carriers’ “generous” initial pay raise increase of 11% over five years, fully expected to be increased in bargaining.

    I guarantee we will end up with zero sick days, this round as well as the next. And we will still continue to come in to work sick as a dog. Think about that the next time you cross the tracks, especially at a flasher only xing with no gates. Did that signal maintainer with brain fogging Covid remember to turn on the battery charger the last time he tested batteries, or are they drained below 8VDC and won’t activate with that three mile long coal train doing 60 mph in a no whistle zone coming at you?

    I mention that because it happens, far more than any of us care to want or think about. Fucking scary shit that has given me actual nightmares where I have gotten up, dressed and driven back out to a crossing just to make sure I didn’t make a simple mistake that could get someone killed.
     

    EddieNFL

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    The fifteen days were a bargaining position just like at a used car dealer, fully expected to get whittled down. Same as the carriers’ “generous” initial pay raise increase of 11% over five years, fully expected to be increased in bargaining.

    I guarantee we will end up with zero sick days, this round as well as the next. And we will still continue to come in to work sick as a dog. Think about that the next time you cross the tracks, especially at a flasher only xing with no gates. Did that signal maintainer with brain fogging Covid remember to turn on the battery charger the last time he tested batteries, or are they drained below 8VDC and won’t activate with that three mile long coal train doing 60 mph in a no whistle zone coming at you?

    I mention that because it happens, far more than any of us care to want or think about. Fucking scary shit that has given me actual nightmares where I have gotten up, dressed and driven back out to a crossing just to make sure I didn’t make a simple mistake that could get someone killed.

    That's called a conscience. Much like common sense, it's a rare trait these days.
     

    DarnYankeeUSMC

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    I haven't taken 15 sick days in my entire life.

    But since y'all have sick days and don't want to do that quiet quit. Everyone with a SSN that ends in a one gets sick on Monday, a two on Tuesday, a three on Wednesday.....
     

    Redmanss

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    I haven't taken 15 sick days in my entire life.

    But since y'all have sick days and don't want to do that quiet quit. Everyone with a SSN that ends in a one gets sick on Monday, a two on Tuesday, a three on Wednesday.....
    Me either. I can count the number of times I went to BAS on one hand over 14 years active duty, only time I missed a single thing was after getting scorpion struck in Egypt, mandatory overnight observation. Chipped elbow in Afghanistan, at my desk the next morning and off all the pain meds the following day because I wanted my guns back. Broken toes or thrown out back, on the tracks with lots of Aleve and Tylenol in me.

    Wife let it slip out early on to public health when she got Covid she was in contact with me (and gave it to me too), they quarantine ordered my ass and I was pissed. She learned her mistake though and I’ve worked the other two times she was positive and I’m certain I was as well, went to work and courtesy informed my buddies to keep clear of me. Can’t be positive for Covid if you never test though, I play games too.
     

    Warhog

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    Absolutely they do, but they're both limited in size and location, comparatively, and their treatment of employees can be/is shit as well, especially for their traveling crews. Short lines are far better for the most part, but again limited in size and often pay quite a bit less, especially freight lines.


    It's been through SCOTUS and upheld a few times over the last century, the basis being Congress does have authority over interstate commerce in the Constitution and with rail being a sole means of trade for some industries, I do see the premise of ensuring no single entity (unions or carriers) being able to shut out other businesses from access.

    Excerpt of Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution: "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;"

    Recently, the carriers have been dancing the edges of that, severely, and trade groups have brought their complaints to the Surface Transportation Board who have been hammering the carriers over their inefficiencies, embargoes and restrictive servicing in the name of Precision Scheduled Railroading.


    My job responsibilities are ensuring trains don't run into each other, don't drop on the ground, and that RR crossings function properly to alert our families so they don't get smoked by trains. I don't care how bad shit gets, I'm not "quiet quitting" in any way, shape or
    Absolutely they do, but they're both limited in size and location, comparatively, and their treatment of employees can be/is shit as well, especially for their traveling crews. Short lines are far better for the most part, but again limited in size and often pay quite a bit less, especially freight lines.


    It's been through SCOTUS and upheld a few times over the last century, the basis being Congress does have authority over interstate commerce in the Constitution and with rail being a sole means of trade for some industries, I do see the premise of ensuring no single entity (unions or carriers) being able to shut out other businesses from access.

    Excerpt of Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution: "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;"

    Recently, the carriers have been dancing the edges of that, severely, and trade groups have brought their complaints to the Surface Transportation Board who have been hammering the carriers over their inefficiencies, embargoes and restrictive servicing in the name of Precision Scheduled Railroading.


    My job responsibilities are ensuring trains don't run into each other, don't drop on the ground, and that RR crossings function properly to alert our families so they don't get smoked by trains. I don't care how bad shit gets, I'm not "quiet quitting" in any way, shape or form.
    Thank you for doing what you do I am te&y and I was aircraft maint in my previous life I have talked to our signal guy in my AO and learned a bit the more you know helps keep you out of a jackpot.

    Maint is mostly unappreciated til it goes sideways I seen traffic about 7 paid sick days yesterday I know the carrier will say that’s 7 vacation days and will only be allowed to be sick Tuesday thru Thursday either way time is short something has to give.
     
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    Redmanss

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    Use vacation time for sick days. That’s what non union linemen do. Then again, we aren’t pussies who threaten to strike to get cushy benefits. If we were, we’d work on the RailRoad. 🤣

    Be a man, drag up and quit.
    We do the same, just tricky scheduling 30 days in advance and between capital work projects so the supervisor will approve it when to get sick.

    In other words we just show up sick, pass it to our family who passes it to yours who passes it to you. You're welcome.
     

    wade2big

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    We do the same, just tricky scheduling 30 days in advance and between capital work projects so the supervisor will approve it when to get sick.

    In other words we just show up sick, pass it to our family who passes it to yours who passes it to you. You're welcome.
    You don’t operate as differently from other industries as you think. Many do it for far less pay, less benefits, and no retirement. I would wager everyone reading this has gone to work sick. You aren’t going to get support from this crowd playing the covid super spreader card either. Cry to the liberals.
     
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    UKDslayer

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    salks

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    Now in like 2 years they can start the process again. This has been the RR strategy from the start. They refused to negotiate anything. Let the PEB and congress make the decision. Kind of pathetic for fortune 500 companies. What I believe was the driving force behind the sick time wasn't so much paid sick time but for not to be penalized for it. Covid brought that to light. If you or a family member got sick and you missed to much work you could be fired or penalized (by people working from home to avoid covid). Rules are rules and with the RR there is a very hard line. The only way to change these rules is through union negotiations. Whatever though it is still a good job. It is a bit disappointing that when push comes to shove congress even a democratic congress completely caves to big business... Moving on though, what to get with my back pay, GUN? or the wife's dumb idea of new appliances.
     

    Jsp556

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    We do the same, just tricky scheduling 30 days in advance and between capital work projects so the supervisor will approve it when to get sick.

    In other words we just show up sick, pass it to our family who passes it to yours who passes it to you. You're welcome.
    Deleted my post as I was being a dick.
    I’d quit out of spite if the government was telling me I had to go to work. Lol, make me.
     
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    MrBlond

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    That describes quite a few jobs. We had a 10% pay cut for a year, then a pay freeze and finally just got an increase. Our health premiums kept going up as well. A -2% loss isn't that bad as we are near -10% of lost income with inflation (probably more) over the last few years added up.
    They aren’t complaining about the pay, they are complaining about having to live at work 365 days of the year. That does not describe many jobs in the US.
     

    MrBlond

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    You don’t operate as differently from other industries as you think. Many do it for far less pay, less benefits, and no retirement. I would wager everyone reading this has gone to work sick. You aren’t going to get support from this crowd playing the covid super spreader card either. Cry to the liberals.

    The impairment from being sick can be greater than being drunk. Just need a conductor to be forced to work sick and then run over a few hundred people, then they will get sick days.