While shooting this evening, we had a moderate rain shower move through. There was very little wind, so I do not count this as an effect. I was pressing for the most accuracy this evening. We were shooting at 300 yards. At first there was very little change to point of impact, and shots were consistent. However as the rain picked up slightly, I started noticing nearly a half a mil in changes on point of impact. I started correcting with holdover, but I was wondering how many compensate for shooting in the rain, and how they go about it.
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Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
It can get water in the chamber and cause pressure issues effecting your MV
It can get water in the chamber and cause pressure issues effecting your MV
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Have seen massive pressure spikes when bullet tips have got wet and then inserted into the chamber - especially if seated close to the lands. As the old saying goes, keep your powder dry! (or bullet heads in this case)
Have seen massive pressure spikes when bullet tips have got wet and then inserted into the chamber - especially if seated close to the lands. As the old saying goes, keep your powder dry! (or bullet heads in this case)
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Someone please clear me up on this... Interior ballistics aside, how would rain have "no" effect on a bullets flight path?? In my mind, rain would be considered an external force thus adversely affecting the bullets trajectory. Wouldn't ANY thing that comes into contact with the bullet have adverse affects its exterior ballistics?? If not, how and why. Thanks.
Someone please clear me up on this... Interior ballistics aside, how would rain have "no" effect on a bullets flight path?? In my mind, rain would be considered an external force thus adversely affecting the bullets trajectory. Wouldn't ANY thing that comes into contact with the bullet have adverse affects its exterior ballistics?? If not, how and why. Thanks.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Have to agree with ShOoTiN2KiKl.
If a raindrop falling down strikes the bullet in flight, it WILL have some effect upon the vector and/or velocity of the bullet.
That is, unless the laws of physics, as I know them, have been abrogated recently.
Have to agree with ShOoTiN2KiKl.
If a raindrop falling down strikes the bullet in flight, it WILL have some effect upon the vector and/or velocity of the bullet.
That is, unless the laws of physics, as I know them, have been abrogated recently.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...unless the laws of physics, as I know them, have been abrogated recently. </div></div>You're advocating in favor of the laws of physics and you fly helicopters?
No one's ever seen this happen in flight, but I'm not sure rain ever touches the bullet - supersonic shockwave and all...And as for the water vapor, the humidity is 100% so you're in a theoretical gain-range situation.
My qualm is not with the theories, it's with what matters to the shooter and what doesn't: That whatever happens to the bullet in the rain, the shooter can't hold the difference on a target.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Spade 13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...unless the laws of physics, as I know them, have been abrogated recently. </div></div>You're advocating in favor of the laws of physics and you fly helicopters?
No one's ever seen this happen in flight, but I'm not sure rain ever touches the bullet - supersonic shockwave and all...And as for the water vapor, the humidity is 100% so you're in a theoretical gain-range situation.
My qualm is not with the theories, it's with what matters to the shooter and what doesn't: That whatever happens to the bullet in the rain, the shooter can't hold the difference on a target.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
It's like riding a motorcycle in the rain. Your wearing a face shield on your helment heading into the wind at 60 mph or about 88 fps.
Very little rain gets on the face shield. Try that at 2500 FPS or 1700 MPH, bet you arn't going to get any rain on the face shield.
Yeah, setting the bullet flight aside, you can get some interference in the rain. Take the M14 for example, the reason the flash hider was openned up with a #7 reamer on a match rifle was to eliminate the posability of a rain drop hanging in the lass hider which could deflect the bullet. You could get water inside the rear sight which you have to blow out. And if you stick a water covered round in the chamber it could give you the same effect as having oil in the chamber from improper cleaning, BUT that's all the shooter doing.
If the shooter takes care, keeping his sights clean, ammo out of the weather, keeps water off his shooting glasses, rain will not affect the bullets flight.
What would have more of affect on the bullets path is heat from sun light. Try this, take half your ammo and lay it in the sun, take the other have and lay it in the shade of the shooting stool and see what effect that difference makes.
Bet you its gonna be a heck of a lot more then a bullet flying through the rain, but like rain, the effects of heat from the sun isn't the fault of the sun, its the fault of the shooter.
It's like riding a motorcycle in the rain. Your wearing a face shield on your helment heading into the wind at 60 mph or about 88 fps.
Very little rain gets on the face shield. Try that at 2500 FPS or 1700 MPH, bet you arn't going to get any rain on the face shield.
Yeah, setting the bullet flight aside, you can get some interference in the rain. Take the M14 for example, the reason the flash hider was openned up with a #7 reamer on a match rifle was to eliminate the posability of a rain drop hanging in the lass hider which could deflect the bullet. You could get water inside the rear sight which you have to blow out. And if you stick a water covered round in the chamber it could give you the same effect as having oil in the chamber from improper cleaning, BUT that's all the shooter doing.
If the shooter takes care, keeping his sights clean, ammo out of the weather, keeps water off his shooting glasses, rain will not affect the bullets flight.
What would have more of affect on the bullets path is heat from sun light. Try this, take half your ammo and lay it in the sun, take the other have and lay it in the shade of the shooting stool and see what effect that difference makes.
Bet you its gonna be a heck of a lot more then a bullet flying through the rain, but like rain, the effects of heat from the sun isn't the fault of the sun, its the fault of the shooter.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
The shock wave around the bullet vaporizes the rain drop so you have no effect, as the bullet is not actually being touched. It can't hit the bullet from the top. Look at the wave in the image.
That is why it has no effect, it is usually an interior ballistic issue, not an exterior.
The shock wave around the bullet vaporizes the rain drop so you have no effect, as the bullet is not actually being touched. It can't hit the bullet from the top. Look at the wave in the image.
That is why it has no effect, it is usually an interior ballistic issue, not an exterior.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
As I live in Wa. State I get to shoot in the rain a lot. I have been behind the spotting scope watching trace when there was a puff of vapor about 3/4 the way to the target. The bullet hit a single rain drop, & vaporised it with no change in the poi. In all the years I've been shooting, I have only seen this twice. So the bullet hitting a rain drop is very rare.
As I live in Wa. State I get to shoot in the rain a lot. I have been behind the spotting scope watching trace when there was a puff of vapor about 3/4 the way to the target. The bullet hit a single rain drop, & vaporised it with no change in the poi. In all the years I've been shooting, I have only seen this twice. So the bullet hitting a rain drop is very rare.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
I like shooting in the rain, or the snow even more. It's easier...
You get a free wind indicator right on the bullet path at every distance between you and the target.
Do keep the gun and ammo dry though. I have experienced blown primers mentioned once the gun gets soaking wet. It's time to knock it off mos' rikki tik if you reach that point.
--Fargo007
I like shooting in the rain, or the snow even more. It's easier...
You get a free wind indicator right on the bullet path at every distance between you and the target.
Do keep the gun and ammo dry though. I have experienced blown primers mentioned once the gun gets soaking wet. It's time to knock it off mos' rikki tik if you reach that point.
--Fargo007
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Kewll!!! Live and learn.
Kewll!!! Live and learn.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Just like bigwheels was saying this rarely happens, the probability of that small bullet (even with the shock wave) contacting a single rain drop is very low based on how fast the bullet is traveling, and even if it did the bullet itself is not going to come in contact with the rain, the shock wave is. I would say more people say the rain has an effect on the bullets POI when its likely the little bit of wind.
Just like bigwheels was saying this rarely happens, the probability of that small bullet (even with the shock wave) contacting a single rain drop is very low based on how fast the bullet is traveling, and even if it did the bullet itself is not going to come in contact with the rain, the shock wave is. I would say more people say the rain has an effect on the bullets POI when its likely the little bit of wind.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
<smacks self in head>
I was not even thinking about the shockwave. I have been pretty consistent lately, and was looking for the odd man out to explain the sudden shift. I am going to start videotaping the sessions so I can watch for changes.
I checked the rounds before each reload of the magazine to insure no water was on the round. Maybe some ended up in the barrel. I will have to pay closer attention. When we got home and I cleaned the rifle, I did not notice any moisture anywhere.
Again thanks for taking the time. Outside consideration always help in looking for the solution, when one has played it over int their head. I appreciate the input.
<smacks self in head>
I was not even thinking about the shockwave. I have been pretty consistent lately, and was looking for the odd man out to explain the sudden shift. I am going to start videotaping the sessions so I can watch for changes.
I checked the rounds before each reload of the magazine to insure no water was on the round. Maybe some ended up in the barrel. I will have to pay closer attention. When we got home and I cleaned the rifle, I did not notice any moisture anywhere.
Again thanks for taking the time. Outside consideration always help in looking for the solution, when one has played it over int their head. I appreciate the input.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
A) regardless of whether the rain affects the bullet, it affects the air mass through which it passes. Up/downdrafts can be thereby generated
B) While I am marginally unwilling to accept that a supersonic bullet's shockwave allows direct contact between bullet and raindrop; there's no question to me that the interaction between shockwave and raindrop will have some form of feedback effect on the bullet. It is this feedback interaction between bullet and shockwave during transonic transition that can upset bullet stability in a random manner.
C) A puff of mist may or may not indicate contact between s supersonic bullet and a raindrop. More likely it's the shockwave at work. Inline, it's probably disruptive; offset, it's probably a deflection.
D) Bullets do go trans/subsonic in flight, and the effects of shockwaves, if any still remain, should be greatly reduced. Even if there's no (supersonic) shock wave, there's still a subsonic pressure wave (bow wave) preceding the bullet.
E) Believe me; if you had water in the chamber, the effects would be dramatic. In my rifles, that usually results in blown primers.
Greg
A) regardless of whether the rain affects the bullet, it affects the air mass through which it passes. Up/downdrafts can be thereby generated
B) While I am marginally unwilling to accept that a supersonic bullet's shockwave allows direct contact between bullet and raindrop; there's no question to me that the interaction between shockwave and raindrop will have some form of feedback effect on the bullet. It is this feedback interaction between bullet and shockwave during transonic transition that can upset bullet stability in a random manner.
C) A puff of mist may or may not indicate contact between s supersonic bullet and a raindrop. More likely it's the shockwave at work. Inline, it's probably disruptive; offset, it's probably a deflection.
D) Bullets do go trans/subsonic in flight, and the effects of shockwaves, if any still remain, should be greatly reduced. Even if there's no (supersonic) shock wave, there's still a subsonic pressure wave (bow wave) preceding the bullet.
E) Believe me; if you had water in the chamber, the effects would be dramatic. In my rifles, that usually results in blown primers.
Greg
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Shooting in my first National Trophy Service Rifle Match at Camp Perry, I recall it pouring down. My 600 yard prone position was under about 4 inches of water. Water droplets were a perpetual part of my distorted sight picture. I came off the line with a 178 and something. An AMU shooter to the left of my target point, I think his name is Chuck Olson, who shot the match wearing a t-shirt and with a cotton web sling, came off the line having shot a 196 and something. He complained about losing most of his points on his last shot which apparently was almost too late. At any rate, comparing his performance to mine there was no question who was the most skilled, as well as the most disciplined shooter on the firing line. While I contemplated my misery, SGT. Olson stayed focused on the task, oblivious that he was almost submerged in the mud hole he was shooting from. He inspired me to step up my performance.
Shooting in my first National Trophy Service Rifle Match at Camp Perry, I recall it pouring down. My 600 yard prone position was under about 4 inches of water. Water droplets were a perpetual part of my distorted sight picture. I came off the line with a 178 and something. An AMU shooter to the left of my target point, I think his name is Chuck Olson, who shot the match wearing a t-shirt and with a cotton web sling, came off the line having shot a 196 and something. He complained about losing most of his points on his last shot which apparently was almost too late. At any rate, comparing his performance to mine there was no question who was the most skilled, as well as the most disciplined shooter on the firing line. While I contemplated my misery, SGT. Olson stayed focused on the task, oblivious that he was almost submerged in the mud hole he was shooting from. He inspired me to step up my performance.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
As SS relates, rain affects the shooter.
I confess to that also. If I decide to do some rifle practice and look out to see it pouring rain, I go back to the house.
Where as if I decated, I'd look forward to rain storms to practice.
We can all shoot on nice mild days, a bit clouding but no moisture, very little wind.
But that does nothing to prepare us for shooting in blowing snow or rain storms.
I only seen one high power match called for rain, that was the Short and Long Range Team Matches at the Wilson Matches in '78.
It wasn't because the shooters were getting wet, it was because there was a flash flood rushing through the pits. Can't shoot if you drown your target pullers.
As SS relates, rain affects the shooter.
I confess to that also. If I decide to do some rifle practice and look out to see it pouring rain, I go back to the house.
Where as if I decated, I'd look forward to rain storms to practice.
We can all shoot on nice mild days, a bit clouding but no moisture, very little wind.
But that does nothing to prepare us for shooting in blowing snow or rain storms.
I only seen one high power match called for rain, that was the Short and Long Range Team Matches at the Wilson Matches in '78.
It wasn't because the shooters were getting wet, it was because there was a flash flood rushing through the pits. Can't shoot if you drown your target pullers.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
The thing with rain, as eluded to above, you never see a straight, steady stream of the bullet impacting with the drops. You may catch one or two puffs of mist across a 600 yard + shot, but not that often and certainly not many more even out to 1000 yards.
There is no visible line of the bullet parting the droplets in the down pour, just a few random points of mist if that.
Now, Greg is correct on the shock wave effecting the trajectory, an example can be seen with the magnetospeed chronograph. There the chronograph is mounted to the rifle and has a sensor that is reminiscent of of a bayonet. The bullet travels a 1/2" or less over the bayonet sensor in order to give a reading. The impact has been noted to raise up about 1" at 100 yards. So while the bullet is not touching the sensor, the muzzle blast / shockwave pushes against the sensor causing the impact to rise.
The main issue and the one that needs to be put in context of this post is, the OP reported a 1/2 mil of adjustment necessary at 300 yards. This is huge in terms of distance affected. This is roughly 5 1/2" at 300 yards... almost 2 full MOA. It is very rare to see deviations this big from just weather. Other thing, he noted a "1/2 mil in changes" which suggests more than one change... clearly something not consistent. To see a full 2 MOA of variation at 300 would put to a combination of issues, not just the rain.
The thing with rain, as eluded to above, you never see a straight, steady stream of the bullet impacting with the drops. You may catch one or two puffs of mist across a 600 yard + shot, but not that often and certainly not many more even out to 1000 yards.
There is no visible line of the bullet parting the droplets in the down pour, just a few random points of mist if that.
Now, Greg is correct on the shock wave effecting the trajectory, an example can be seen with the magnetospeed chronograph. There the chronograph is mounted to the rifle and has a sensor that is reminiscent of of a bayonet. The bullet travels a 1/2" or less over the bayonet sensor in order to give a reading. The impact has been noted to raise up about 1" at 100 yards. So while the bullet is not touching the sensor, the muzzle blast / shockwave pushes against the sensor causing the impact to rise.
The main issue and the one that needs to be put in context of this post is, the OP reported a 1/2 mil of adjustment necessary at 300 yards. This is huge in terms of distance affected. This is roughly 5 1/2" at 300 yards... almost 2 full MOA. It is very rare to see deviations this big from just weather. Other thing, he noted a "1/2 mil in changes" which suggests more than one change... clearly something not consistent. To see a full 2 MOA of variation at 300 would put to a combination of issues, not just the rain.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
I think I may have found my deviation problem. Shooting with brother yesterday, we started out fairly fine, then rain and some wind set in at his farm. Although most don't hope for inclement weather, that was our key point to shooting yesterday. I was wanting to identify the issue. Pretty sad to be hoping for some rain.
I started seeing changes again. So made absolutely sure he was watching what I might be doing.
I would settle in, as normal, then just prior to taking shot, would hunch my neck and shoulders in due to the weather. Him and I shoot together alot, and try to coach each other through to maintain consistency. the simple fact of hunch my neck down a bit was drastically changing my impact.
I did not believe I was doing it that much, but after watching on his phone, realized I had a bad habit to break. Now to correct the issue when in inclement weather.
Maybe old age has set in now. Or the years away from precise shooting has allowed me to pick up bad habits. But this will drive me nuts till I correct the problem now.
Thanks for the input. Without input would still be thinking I need to change habits to shoot in inclement weather. Would still be thinking it was the rain.
I think I may have found my deviation problem. Shooting with brother yesterday, we started out fairly fine, then rain and some wind set in at his farm. Although most don't hope for inclement weather, that was our key point to shooting yesterday. I was wanting to identify the issue. Pretty sad to be hoping for some rain.
I started seeing changes again. So made absolutely sure he was watching what I might be doing.
I would settle in, as normal, then just prior to taking shot, would hunch my neck and shoulders in due to the weather. Him and I shoot together alot, and try to coach each other through to maintain consistency. the simple fact of hunch my neck down a bit was drastically changing my impact.
I did not believe I was doing it that much, but after watching on his phone, realized I had a bad habit to break. Now to correct the issue when in inclement weather.
Maybe old age has set in now. Or the years away from precise shooting has allowed me to pick up bad habits. But this will drive me nuts till I correct the problem now.
Thanks for the input. Without input would still be thinking I need to change habits to shoot in inclement weather. Would still be thinking it was the rain.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
A high right shoulder will produce horizontal grouping, rain or shine. Perhaps hunching your neck as you described it brought about such a condition. One thing is clear the butt to shoulder, stock-weld and elbow placement must be consistent shot to shot to avoid both vertical as well as horizontal groupings.
A high right shoulder will produce horizontal grouping, rain or shine. Perhaps hunching your neck as you described it brought about such a condition. One thing is clear the butt to shoulder, stock-weld and elbow placement must be consistent shot to shot to avoid both vertical as well as horizontal groupings.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
good to know, excellent thread.
good to know, excellent thread.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
I was thinking the change in point of impact could have been due to a decrease in temperature that usually accompanies rain. This would have only been true if the POI was lower but it seems the OP identified the problem.
I was thinking the change in point of impact could have been due to a decrease in temperature that usually accompanies rain. This would have only been true if the POI was lower but it seems the OP identified the problem.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Actually, rain does have a very definate effect of trajectory; it flattens it, sometimes by a fairly considerable margin. Greg and Lowlight both touched on the fact that the boundry layer on a bullet in flight keep the bullet from truly "contacting" the rain drops, and another poster mentioned that there may have been a change due to a decrease in temperature. All dancing pretty close to the answer here; barometric pressure. Periods of clear skies and bright sunshine are nearly always high pressure zones. When the barometer falls, you get rain. That means, when the atmospheric pressure drops, the bullet is now travelling through "thinner" air, and encountering less resistance. Simple as that. I've seen times when a rain storm moved in and caused over a full minute's difference at 600 from what the same rifle and ammo needed from shooting in decent weather that same morning. This is, incidentally, similar to the effect you get from shooting in extremely high humidity, something that seems to really boggle a lot of shooters. It's all about pressure and air density.
Actually, rain does have a very definate effect of trajectory; it flattens it, sometimes by a fairly considerable margin. Greg and Lowlight both touched on the fact that the boundry layer on a bullet in flight keep the bullet from truly "contacting" the rain drops, and another poster mentioned that there may have been a change due to a decrease in temperature. All dancing pretty close to the answer here; barometric pressure. Periods of clear skies and bright sunshine are nearly always high pressure zones. When the barometer falls, you get rain. That means, when the atmospheric pressure drops, the bullet is now travelling through "thinner" air, and encountering less resistance. Simple as that. I've seen times when a rain storm moved in and caused over a full minute's difference at 600 from what the same rifle and ammo needed from shooting in decent weather that same morning. This is, incidentally, similar to the effect you get from shooting in extremely high humidity, something that seems to really boggle a lot of shooters. It's all about pressure and air density.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
When I went to Central Virginia Tactical, Vern said rain has no effect on trajectory due to a bow wave produced by the bullet pushing the drops out of the way.
When I went to Central Virginia Tactical, Vern said rain has no effect on trajectory due to a bow wave produced by the bullet pushing the drops out of the way.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
Low pressure doesn't automatically mean rain. Granted it doesn't rain with high pressure, but there can be low pressure without it raining. Pressure will be low when a rain band moves through, but I don't recalling seeing the pressure drop farther when the rain band comes in.
Low pressure doesn't automatically mean rain. Granted it doesn't rain with high pressure, but there can be low pressure without it raining. Pressure will be low when a rain band moves through, but I don't recalling seeing the pressure drop farther when the rain band comes in.
Re: Rain and effects on ballistics today
No, it doesn't always give you rain, but when you have rain, low pressure is part of the picture. Raining in Raton right now, and I'm just hoping it clears up for tomorrow. Makes for a soggy day on the range which just takes a bunch of fun out of being here!
No, it doesn't always give you rain, but when you have rain, low pressure is part of the picture. Raining in Raton right now, and I'm just hoping it clears up for tomorrow. Makes for a soggy day on the range which just takes a bunch of fun out of being here!
I think rain does change the POI. I think the only way to know for sure is to have a skilled shooter that everyone trusts, to shoot say a 308 at 500 yards in the pouring rain, while a skilled videographer captures video to see if any rain drops are actually struck... whether it be by the bullet or it's bow shockwave.
But for now, I would like to present some of my own evidence.
I shoot in every condition Ohio will throw at me, every day. I take one shot as it forces me to understand the conditions around me. I do find a great difference in pouring rain.
An example of me shooting in rainy, windy conditions, that is one shot in pouring rain. My camera doesn't pick-up rain all that well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlX3I8PoRP4
I do this every day and I usually wait for the worst conditions. A bit of rain does not effect me in the slightest.
This topic came up on another forum and I made a video today of me shooting in this morning's freezing rain. The load I am using I used all winter, so the 32ºF was not affecting the powder burn. I've used this load from 10ºF to 60ºF. The bore is fouled, and I expect the rifle to shoot sub-moa precise.
First, I aimed with my usual POA and the round hit a raindrop at close to the 50 yard mark, then hit about 12 inches low of the 350 yard target.
The second shot I aimed 12 inches higher, hit 2 raindrops, one at about the 175 yard mark and the other at the 300 yard mark; then hit the target.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyQLS2KXBc
I took the rifle back out after the rain subsided to take another shot with my usual 350 yard POA and hit less than MOA from the hit taken earlier in the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up-Mq4tbpnM
I used to tell people that rain had no effect, until I stared experiencing the effect. Now I am convinced rain does have a profound effect on POI, and I would really like someone to set out to either confirm a POI shift due to raindrop strikes, or dispel it.
If any site on the net is able to take on this experiment, it is this site.
But for now, I would like to present some of my own evidence.
I shoot in every condition Ohio will throw at me, every day. I take one shot as it forces me to understand the conditions around me. I do find a great difference in pouring rain.
An example of me shooting in rainy, windy conditions, that is one shot in pouring rain. My camera doesn't pick-up rain all that well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlX3I8PoRP4
I do this every day and I usually wait for the worst conditions. A bit of rain does not effect me in the slightest.
This topic came up on another forum and I made a video today of me shooting in this morning's freezing rain. The load I am using I used all winter, so the 32ºF was not affecting the powder burn. I've used this load from 10ºF to 60ºF. The bore is fouled, and I expect the rifle to shoot sub-moa precise.
First, I aimed with my usual POA and the round hit a raindrop at close to the 50 yard mark, then hit about 12 inches low of the 350 yard target.
The second shot I aimed 12 inches higher, hit 2 raindrops, one at about the 175 yard mark and the other at the 300 yard mark; then hit the target.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyQLS2KXBc
I took the rifle back out after the rain subsided to take another shot with my usual 350 yard POA and hit less than MOA from the hit taken earlier in the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up-Mq4tbpnM
I used to tell people that rain had no effect, until I stared experiencing the effect. Now I am convinced rain does have a profound effect on POI, and I would really like someone to set out to either confirm a POI shift due to raindrop strikes, or dispel it.
If any site on the net is able to take on this experiment, it is this site.
Maybe I'm missing something here, how do you know your bullet hit two rain drops?
I think his post was meant as a joke: Sub MOA at 350 yards with a lever gun, then hitting two raindrops, then asking for an answer that was already given in the Thread last year.... Well, that and reviving last year's Thread six months later.
Check out his blog entries and you'll understand.
Check out his blog entries and you'll understand.
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Read his Blog posts, he is serious
Holy shit: I stand corrected.... Napkin shredding, raindrop bustin' and 'almost hits' on water jugs with a 30-06.
Have 'serious tactical marksmen' just been 'schooled', or is this the same guy who tried to invent and patent a self-licking stamp machine?
There must be a rational explanation: Wait... Frank, check his IP... I bet Larry is back!
MOA actually stands for, in Hillbilly, Minute of Ass.
Sometimes it is a gnat's but sometimes it is an elephant's.
Sometimes it is a gnat's but sometimes it is an elephant's.
Lol, 3ft miss low and 1 ft right at 350 yards and the culprit was the rain drops.
It turns out that the answer was right there in front of us the whole time: Whatever it is that we've all been doing, we've all been doing it wrong.
NEWS FLASH
Graham admits he is wrong!!!!!!
Just kidding ya'
I shot a 200 yard BR match a few years ago in a pouring rain. All weekend the groups were amazingly small. I got an education on shooting in the rain there. It doesn't affect POI unless the wind is blowing while it is raining.
Graham admits he is wrong!!!!!!
Just kidding ya'
I shot a 200 yard BR match a few years ago in a pouring rain. All weekend the groups were amazingly small. I got an education on shooting in the rain there. It doesn't affect POI unless the wind is blowing while it is raining.
I was wrong once: It was when I mistakenly thought I was wrong; but, as it turned out, I was right. LOL!
I think it happened in the rain, though..... Which explains this bizarre phenomenon.
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And then again, that's the wind moving your bullet. I have had good luck doping my shots with nothing more than density altitude being the changing factor. Rain or not, it usually get me a hit out at distance if I call the wind right. Me elevation is usually no more than a 1/2 MOA or a few tenths of a mil off. But this is with a good ballistic round to a .308. Rain might affect othertype projectiles. Again, the rain gets ignored, other than the aide it gives me in reading the wind.
Shot more than a few matches in pouring rain at 800+ yards. The last was with a fast moving .243. No deviation was observed.
I could recount the number of times I shot a Marine Corps KD Course with an M16A2 or the number of times I have been on a M40A1 in the rain, but the results are the same. If you are missing in the rain.....it is more likely the effect of rain on the shooter than rain on the bullet.
You would think that with decades of shooting in all conditions, someone would have come up with a "rain" button on a ballistic computer if it actually mattered.
I could recount the number of times I shot a Marine Corps KD Course with an M16A2 or the number of times I have been on a M40A1 in the rain, but the results are the same. If you are missing in the rain.....it is more likely the effect of rain on the shooter than rain on the bullet.
You would think that with decades of shooting in all conditions, someone would have come up with a "rain" button on a ballistic computer if it actually mattered.
Kind of what the humidity function is no? If its raining, it's likely 100% RH.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
I think most shooters in the know spray their bullets with Boesheild T-9, the stuff airlines use to coat the wings of planes to keep them from icing up.
This shit will guide your bullets home.
LL, how do you put smiley's in anymore?
This shit will guide your bullets home.
LL, how do you put smiley's in anymore?
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When I first polish my bullets with glass cleaner I find that they will better cut the raindrops.
First came: SpinD
Then came: SlapOff (about which I claim no small part in developing with Frank at R.O., BTW)
And now there's: RainHex
Because:
First came: SpinD
Then came: SlapOff (about which I claim no small part in developing with Frank at R.O., BTW)
And now there's: RainHex
Because:
I can make one of a bullet cutting the cheese.
It barely rains in CO so, no, no splashing against raindrops
It barely rains in CO so, no, no splashing against raindrops
I might be way off here, and please excuse me if im wrong.
The OP stated nothing about changing his setup as the rain moved in. If when he started shooting, it was say 75% humidity, and then the rain came in it was 100% humidity, even at 300yds wouldnt that play a role in why his POI changed? If so, I dont know enough to decide if it would be enough change in the environment to produce 1/2 mil change.
He may have compensated for this, and I just didnt see it in the thread.
The OP stated nothing about changing his setup as the rain moved in. If when he started shooting, it was say 75% humidity, and then the rain came in it was 100% humidity, even at 300yds wouldnt that play a role in why his POI changed? If so, I dont know enough to decide if it would be enough change in the environment to produce 1/2 mil change.
He may have compensated for this, and I just didnt see it in the thread.
I have strelok on my phone and humidity is one of the things its missing so I couldn't tell ya...
Well aren't we just a happy little coconut today...
