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Photos Raufoss round

1

144:1

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Minuteman
May 21, 2011
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Northern Virginia
Below is a .50 cal MK211 Raufoss round I cut open. The PETN/RDX compound (not sure which one it is in this case as they use both) is a little messy.

The tungsten penetrator is pretty evil, nothing I have will even scratch it. Even the diamond blade on my dremel, it just polishes it up.
 
Re: Raufoss round

Thats pretty cool. Don't know if I would have the balls to cut one of those open though. I thought they were pretty valuable.

I get what the top 2 pieces are (copper jacket) and the next piece down looks like it could be the tungsten penetrator, but what is underneath the compound and also whats the piece on the far left?

Also, if you ever want someone to take any other extra raufoss rounds off your hands...
 
Re: Raufoss round

I am not familiar with such rounds, how do the penetrator and high-explosive components fit into a .50 round? I got three cartridges on my shelf and compared to the penetrator, I don't see how the rdx/petn can even fit into the projectile...

If anyone could enlighten me, I'd appreciate it.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SurgeonPredator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not familiar with such rounds, how do the penetrator and high-explosive components fit into a .50 round? I got three cartridges on my shelf and compared to the penetrator, I don't see how the rdx/petn can even fit into the projectile...

If anyone could enlighten me, I'd appreciate it. </div></div>

Well if you look at the metal casing the white powder is in (RDX/PETN) the penetrator sits in that casing and the explosive powder mainly resides in front of the penetrator. The metal peice above the white powder then goes over top of the penetrator and the explosive powder creating a shell. This shell then resides in the copper casing. The silver powder incediary mix then resides just in front of the shell containing the explosive compound and penetrator.

When the MK211 strikes a target the incendiary powder ignites softening the target. At this moment an initial charge set off by kinetic energy sets off the explosive compound. This compound explodes in a 30 degree pattern showering the targets behind say a brick wall or armed personnel carrier, the penetrator then follows through the hole cleaning up the intended target behind said object.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats pretty cool. Don't know if I would have the balls to cut one of those open though. I thought they were pretty valuable.

I get what the top 2 pieces are (copper jacket) and the next piece down looks like it could be the tungsten penetrator, but what is underneath the compound and also whats the piece on the far left?

Also, if you ever want someone to take any other extra raufoss rounds off your hands... </div></div>

Yes they are quite expensive. I wont say what I used because I dont think its a good idea. However I was very safe and took my time. AND NO I DIDNT USE A DREMEL. You could set the charge off and get severly injuried.

The object to the left is actually the tungsten penetrator. The object you see under the copper casing is actually the top part of the casing that holds the penetrator and explosive in a capsule (if you will). This capsule then sits behind the incendiary mix inside of the copper jacket.
 
Re: Raufoss round

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Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does the zirconium powder do?

And, this is a very interesting project. </div></div>

Zirconium powder is added for a long burning effect and maximum fire starting effect. It can ignite JP4 and JP8 military jet fuel. Zirconium will set anything on fire its pretty bad ass.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Felderthewelder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many grains is that round when it is all together? </div></div>

They range from 665-672 depending on the manufacture.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what's going rate for one round? $25? </div></div>

Shit I wish, my cost was just under $50 and I have seen them as high as $75

Now before anyone says wow you cut up a $50 bill. I needed to cut one open before I bought more because people will paint regular API .50 cal rounds and try and pass them off with the paint of an MK211 and sell them for like $40.
 
Re: Raufoss round

In response to your last, 144:1, that's pretty low of them. And it's difficult to establish a round's nature when someone's tampered with the IDing paint.

But I must say that's exceptionally interesting seeing the innards of a Raufoss.
 
Re: Raufoss round

Thanks for taking one in the pocketbook for the team! Very interesting...
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does the zirconium powder do?

And, this is a very interesting project. </div></div>

Zirconium powder adds report flash for the shooter to see exactly where the round impacted, as the explosive is detonated by the pressure of the penetrator and the incendiary mixture impacting a HARD object (steel plate) and pushes the explosive charge and detonation through the other side, and the zirconium powder (also used in fireworks for a 'brilliant' sparkling effect) ignites on both sides with big bright brilliant report ensuring the shooter sees exactly where he hit. Remember, these rounds are meant to be used at ranges exceeding 1500m. They have no real effect however on soft targets (troops in the open) or earthen bunkers, as it does not allow reliable operation of the method of detonation, which requires impact upon a hard target.

Also, use at ranges under 300-400m will result in unreliable detonation, due to fragmentation of the rounds jacket before reliable operation of detonation system, though the big carbide penetrator will still do some damage.
 
Re: Raufoss round

Oh and the 'incendiary' mix is essentially thermite....

Be careful trying to cut into tungsten carbide, as it is a very well known carcinogen if it embeds into the human body. This is why it is not used in making body armor, even though it actually out performs most other carbides in ballistic performance, and the fact it is also a bit heavier, though it takes a thinner layer to match performance of the other carbides. One fragment the size of a half the M855 penetrator button is enough to cause major health issues though. Don't try to cut it. It also can shatter and throw shards unexpectedly, and in random directions. The only way to cut it would be with a diamond coated carbide cutter/blade.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mayhem1stClass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does the zirconium powder do?

And, this is a very interesting project. </div></div>

though the big carbide penetrator will still do some damage. </div></div>

understatement of the year?
 
Re: Raufoss round

Really cool ! Many people don't know what happens after it hits a wall and "soft" targets behind it get peppered with death ! I love these particular rounds
grin.gif
 
Re: Raufoss round

Why aren't Raufoss rounds subject to classification as a Destructive Device? Not enough explosive?
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why aren't Raufoss rounds subject to classification as a Destructive Device? Not enough explosive? </div></div>

Yep thats right.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven Dzupin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting into live ordnance is NOT a good idea !

X-Ray would have been the way to go.

Be safe, PLEASE !!

Regards,

Steve </div></div>

Well Im sure an X-Ray machine is much much to expensive for the average Joe and since Im not running, nor do I own a hospital I dont need one.

Thank you much for your concern. I do know what Im doing and I took the proper pre-cautions when I opened the round up.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 144:1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steven Dzupin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cutting into live ordnance is NOT a good idea !

X-Ray would have been the way to go.

Be safe, PLEASE !!

Regards,

Steve </div></div>

Well Im sure an X-Ray machine is much much to expensive for the average Joe and since Im not running, nor do I own a hospital I dont need one.

Thank you much for your concern. I do know what Im doing and I took the proper pre-cautions when I opened the round up. </div></div>

Oil bath? lol the incendiary mixture is waterproof... and ignites under friction....
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gruntbull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mayhem1stClass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does the zirconium powder do?

And, this is a very interesting project. </div></div>

though the big carbide penetrator will still do some damage. </div></div>

understatement of the year? </div></div>

LMAO... tungsten carbide penetrators are nowhere near as effective as pure tungsten pentrators... which are only exceeded by depleted uranium... Tungsten Carbide penetrators were first used by the Nazis in WW2, in 1939, then the Allies started using them in 1941-1942. It's weakness is that it is so hard that it shatters rather easily, and will not fully penetrate hard objects before it does so... Though it has found new life in penetrating ceramic (carbide/composite) armor.

FYI... I used to work in a ballistics lab lol
 
Re: Raufoss round

I think the Nazis also were the first to start using depleted uranium... when tungsten (wolfram) became hard to find.

In the old days, about 25 years ago for me...

They used to make these .50 cal "missles" as we called them. They were fin stabilized / saboted rounds with an explosive in the base that would propel the round to about 6000 feet/s.

I remember them being supposedly "insanely" expensive, and used for blasting though a foot or so of steel reinforced concrete.

I considered the whole concept totally unreal until I actually saw it. It was obvious that a lot of machining went into making these things, and it was amazing that it fit into a 50 cal package.

I have never seen them since.

I have seen some interesting other projectiles...
 
Re: Raufoss round

In the 80's Winchester created a round called SLAP or Saboted Lightly Armored Penetrator in .50 and .308. It doesn't have any explosives but it does fly close to the feet per second you stated and is capable of punching through the thickness of armor you stated as well.

There is a story on the Internet about one of my buddies shooting an APC during the Iraq war. He sent two rounds into the armored carrier it disabled the vehicle and the Iraqis in the one traveling near by stopped and surrendered. SLAP is pretty bad ass. I will post the .308 version in a day or so.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Now before anyone says wow you cut up a $50 bill. I needed to cut one open before I bought more because people will paint regular API .50 cal rounds and try and pass them off with the paint of an MK211 and sell them for like $40. </div></div>

You know they LOOK quite a bit different when they impact a target.

I would have just loaded one up and sent it downrange into a plate of steel. It should be plainly apparent if it's real or not.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mayhem1stClass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have no real effect however on soft targets (troops in the open) or earthen bunkers, as it does not allow reliable operation of the method of detonation, which requires impact upon a hard targets. </div></div>

From what I've seen there is a 50/50 chance of a Raufoss round performing on a soft target. It is very apparent when the round performs and when it doesn't.
I've never seen a Raufoss round not perform while hitting a (soft) vehicle.

It is my understanding that the Marine Corps uses Raufoss because of its superior accuracy over API rounds.

Cool picture.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
144:1Now before anyone says wow you cut up a $50 bill. I needed to cut one open before I bought more because people will paint regular API .50 cal rounds and try and pass them off with the paint of an MK211 and sell them for like $40. </div></div> You know they LOOK quite a bit different when they impact a target. I would have just loaded one up and sent it downrange into a plate of steel. It should be plainly apparent if it's real or not. [/quote said:
Yep I'm very aware of what they look like. Used them all the time in the army. I thought it would also be great to share with the hide members.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GBMaryland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the Nazis also were the first to start using depleted uranium... when tungsten (wolfram) became hard to find.

In the old days, about 25 years ago for me...

They used to make these .50 cal "missles" as we called them. They were fin stabilized / saboted rounds with an explosive in the base that would propel the round to about 6000 feet/s.

I remember them being supposedly "insanely" expensive, and used for blasting though a foot or so of steel reinforced concrete.

I considered the whole concept totally unreal until I actually saw it. It was obvious that a lot of machining went into making these things, and it was amazing that it fit into a 50 cal package.

I have never seen them since.

I have seen some interesting other projectiles... </div></div>

Didn't those prove to be too inaccurate at extended ranges from a rifles barrel for any deployable use? I remember reading about those, they were something like .35 subcaliber projectiles, with a penetrator and a secondary booster. I also remember being told by an OLD old CSM about some experimental DU .50 BMG rounds they tested before Desert Shield/Storm starting in the mid 80's when they were also developing the DU rounds they used in the Desert Storm, and they had issues with contamination due to the ranges they were using them at.

It is amazing the amount of tech. we got from the Nazis, and the amount that was concurrently developed (like Jet engines). I know the Tungsten Carbide 20mm and 30mm rounds they used, and also the tank rounds were only issued to the most experienced units/pilots/tanks as they were in very limited quantities as they were expensive and hard to manufacture.
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 144:1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the 80's Winchester created a round called SLAP or Saboted Lightly Armored Penetrator in .50 and .308. It doesn't have any explosives but it does fly close to the feet per second you stated and is capable of punching through the thickness of armor you stated as well.

There is a story on the Internet about one of my buddies shooting an APC during the Iraq war. He sent two rounds into the armored carrier it disabled the vehicle and the Iraqis in the one traveling near by stopped and surrendered. SLAP is pretty bad ass. I will post the .308 version in a day or so. </div></div>

My first 1SG was a sniper during the first gulf war with 3/75, and he took out 3 BMPs with a SASR (M82A1) with API rounds from 1500+m with one being completely destroyed. He even had the photos of the charred corpses trying to escape, and the entrance hole to prove it. He also had some other somewhat disturbing/awesome photos from that go about. There was also Delta Dan, my first squad leader (Weapons squad FTW!!!) who during the first gulf war had a video of him spotting his sniper shooting 5 Replubican Guard guys in the face from 500-800m away, followed by closeups. Pretty gruesome results. One guy took a round in the chin.

As far as the SLAP rounds go, they weren't delivering the performance the military wanted, so they were dropped. They were inconsistent in accuracy from the reports.
 
Re: Raufoss round

Several yrs ago a friend had a deal on some of those rounds at $25 ea. He got 100 rounds and found out someone had taken and diped the tips of ball ammo. Got to watch out on some deals. MM
 
Re: Raufoss round

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Several yrs ago a friend had a deal on some of those rounds at $25 ea. He got 100 rounds and found out someone had taken and diped the tips of ball ammo. Got to watch out on some deals. MM </div></div>

Damn man that sucks. He should have taken him to court or at a minimum called the police. I'm pretty sure $2500 is up there in the felony category.
 
Re: Raufoss round

If your impressed by the ballistics of this round, you should see the damage they leave on soft targets ... both direct impact and colloratal damage.
 
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