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Sidearms & Scatterguns RDS static fundamentals

black5.3

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Jun 1, 2017
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Hey everyone, got out and shot today with the intention of doing some dot drills, 1rnd from the holster, 2-3 rnds from the holster and tracking the dot. So I only shot about 130ish rounds and did not use the shot timer at all. Just wanting to really concentrate on getting a clean draw, presentation and the dot being where I want it by the time my elbows are up. It got me wondering and I wanted to reach out and see what you guys are doing for working on trigger control, tracking the dot during multiple rounds fired and picking up the dot quick from the draw.

I just got into RDS’s right after covid hit and I haven’t been shooting as much because of how hard it is sourcing primers. So I know a lot of it has to do with me not shooting as much as I was a few years ago but hopefully that will change fairly soon.

So what are you guys doing on your typical range day and how much ammo are y’all shooting each time you go out?
 
My humble view is that training isn't vastly different between pistols with irons, and pistols with PMOs- one exception being front sight focus for the former and target focus with both eyes open for the latter. Another exception- PMOs expose a weak draw and presentation, so smart shooters work on those like you're doing.

Trigger control exercises are the same for all sight systems- place a penny or dime over the front sight, or PMO, while pressing trigger. Laser target training systems are good tools also and can keep it fun.

Tracking the dot might be better labeled as flashing the dot (on the target)- because you never want to take your eyes off the target. When doing this on multiple shots, the dot will appear for a split second between the muzzle returning onto target and it recoiling again from the next shot firing- giving the appearance of it "flashing".

Working on the draw and presentation like you're doing is the key to quicker overlay of the dot onto your target.

Don't be afraid to tape over your irons to force yourself to target focus with both eyes open.

It sounds like you're motivated, and that's a big part of the battle.

@308pirate usually has some great advice on this topic.
 
Thanks for the insight! Didn’t want to come across like I was comparing training with irons vs RDS’s. I was interested in seeing what drills you guys are doing to work on the fundamentals like specific targets and whatnot. I have always either dry fired at small targets around the house or done dot drills when im working on trigger control and height over bore(mainly rifle and not so much pistol).
 
Use a timer, it'll show you how good or bad your presentation is.

If you give yourself unlimited time to draw and fire you'll never realize you're fixing a bad one
 
Hey everyone, got out and shot today with the intention of doing some dot drills, 1rnd from the holster, 2-3 rnds from the holster and tracking the dot. So I only shot about 130ish rounds and did not use the shot timer at all. Just wanting to really concentrate on getting a clean draw, presentation and the dot being where I want it by the time my elbows are up. It got me wondering and I wanted to reach out and see what you guys are doing for working on trigger control, tracking the dot during multiple rounds fired and picking up the dot quick from the draw.

I just got into RDS’s right after covid hit and I haven’t been shooting as much because of how hard it is sourcing primers. So I know a lot of it has to do with me not shooting as much as I was a few years ago but hopefully that will change fairly soon.

So what are you guys doing on your typical range day and how much ammo are y’all shooting each time you go out?

How much of this are you working on during dry fire? You don't need to fire a single round to learn how to get a draw/presentation where the dot ends up exactly where you're looking nor do you need to fire a round to see if your trigger press was clean (the dot will give you tons more feedback than irons can).

In fact, "tracking the dot" during recoil is kind of a bullshit drill anyway. It implies (incorrectly) that you want to watch the dot move up and down during recoil. You need to be aware of where the dot was on target when the shot broke, in other words where was it when it started moving up in recoil. You need to be ready to shoot when the dot shows back up inside the acceptable target area. You don't need to see it move around during the recoil cycle if it comes right back to where it started. And the way you make it come back to where it started is by fixing your grip, not by watching the dot.

Lack of ammo is absolutely not a reason to not be training.

@Milf Dots had great advice too.

+1 to @LawnMM for using a shot timer. Use the par time function for dry fire and the timer function for live fire. You need to know the time.

The targets you use are almost irrelevant. In fact, Ben Stoeger recommends using a blank, white wall to do a lot of your trigger control dry fire drills so that the dot's micro movements are easier to see when the striker or hammer falls. During live fire training I'm almost exclusively using USPSA targets.
 
Use a timer, it'll show you how good or bad your presentation is.

If you give yourself unlimited time to draw and fire you'll never realize you're fixing a bad one
Only reason I didn’t break out the timer was because sometimes i get caught up in the mindset of just getting the gun out of the holster, on target and getting the rounds out and in target as fast as possible while potentially letting some of the said fundamentals slip. So yesterday i was specifically working on trying to nail down fundamentals.
 
How much of this are you working on during dry fire? You don't need to fire a single round to learn how to get a draw/presentation where the dot ends up exactly where you're looking nor do you need to fire a round to see if your trigger press was clean (the dot will give you tons more feedback than irons can).

In fact, "tracking the dot" during recoil is kind of a bullshit drill anyway. It implies (incorrectly) that you want to watch the dot move up and down during recoil. You need to be aware of where the dot was on target when the shot broke, in other words where was it when it started moving up in recoil. You need to be ready to shoot when the dot shows back up inside the acceptable target area. You don't need to see it move around during the recoil cycle if it comes right back to where it started. And the way you make it come back to where it started is by fixing your grip, not by watching the dot.

Lack of ammo is absolutely not a reason to not be training.

@Milf Dots had great advice too.

+1 to @LawnMM for using a shot timer. Use the par time function for dry fire and the timer function for live fire. You need to know the time.

The targets you use are almost irrelevant. In fact, Ben Stoeger recommends using a blank, white wall to do a lot of your trigger control dry fire drills so that the dot's micro movements are easier to see when the striker or hammer falls. During live fire training I'm almost exclusively using USPSA targets.
Thanks for the info, this is why I’m reaching out to see what you guys are doing and what you recommend. See previous post as to why I didn’t break out the shot timer.

I totally realize ammo availability is not a excuse because of being able to dry fire. I do dry fire but nowhere near as much as I should. I am a believer in that live fire is needed to train recoil control though and thats some of what I was doing yesterday.
 
I am a believer in that live fire is needed to train recoil control though and thats some of what I was doing yesterday.

Well yeah, that's kinda obvious.

  1. You do something in dry fire
  2. You test it in live fire
  3. If it doesn't work in live fire, you adjust until it works during live fire
  4. You start training that change in dry fire
  5. Go back to validate with live fire
  6. Wash, rinse, repeat

Here you go: https://benstoegerproshop.com/practical-shooting-training-by-ben-stoeger-joel-park/
 
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Well yeah, that's kinda obvious.

  1. You do something in dry fire
  2. You test it in live fire
  3. If it doesn't work in live fire, you adjust until it works during live fire
  4. You start training that change in dry fire
  5. Go back to validate with live fire
  6. Wash, rinse, repeat

Here you go: https://benstoegerproshop.com/practical-shooting-training-by-ben-stoeger-joel-park/
I totally get everything you’re saying and I appreciate the response. I get the principal behind dry fire as well. I was looking to spark some conversation about certain drills used to train specific fundamentals and what were some that have helped more than others whether it’s dry fire or live fire. I wasn’t really reaching out to be coached. Sorry if thats how my first post came across.
 
I was looking to spark some conversation about certain drills used to train specific fundamentals

There are no magic sauce drills to this. Be self analytical and self critical.

What is your pistol shooting background?
 
being a poor, i have been using a laserlyte cartridge and a quicktyme target timer for dry fire for many years.
i think there are many fancier options now...but for basic repetition drills for muscle memory it has been fantastic and cheap.
 
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There are no magic sauce drills to this. Be self analytical and self critical.

What is your pistol shooting background?
I have CC’d for about 10 years and have carried while on duty as sworn LE for 4 years, im on our agency’s SWAT team as well so we train fairly hard and I have taken a fair amount of professional training and we train as a team often. I also shot several different types of competition over the years, IDPA, 2 gun and 3 gun stuff I train accordingly for what I might encounter while in the job…. With all that being said, im not the best but im not the worst either. All my years if experience are with irons, our duty handguns are still irons. The whole red dot conversion has been on my personal stuff and for my CC.
 
being a poor, i have been using a laserlyte cartridge and a quicktyme target timer for dry fire for many years.
i think there are many fancier options now...but for basic repetition drills for muscle memory it has been fantastic and cheap.
Yeah there are a lot of options out there now and I have considered them. It’s nice to actually see feedback on your target and not just watch your dot or irons.