Hi guys, just a couple quick questions. I'm switching from 168gn SMK's in my SPS Tactical to 175 SMK's. I've always used IMR-4064 on my 168's, but when the big powder/primer shortage was going on I couldn't get ahold of any so I bought two pounds of RE-15 when I came across it because I knew it was similar. I never used it because I was able to get ahold of more IMR-4064 before I needed it. Now that I am starting over with a new load, I'd like to settle on one of those two powders. So I see alot of guys use both powders for their 175gn loads, and I think I read once that the gov't switched to RE-15 for M118LR. So my first question is WHY did they switch to RE-15? How is it better? I see per Sierra's data that listed max load for RE-15 only pushes a 175 at 2500FPS, where as you can use IMR-4064 to push it to 2600FPS. Since I will be building this load for 1000Y+ I believe the more speed the better with my 20" barrel, but feel free to correct me if I am mistaken in that. Thanks for your guys' input.
- Thread starter Shocktroop0351
- Start date
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Well, 4064 is my back up powder, reloader is too temprature sensative, a load I worked up with re15 in february, showed pressure signs when I was shooting in June.
Honestly in the 4 years I have been loading 308 for LR shooting, the most consistant powder I have seen reported, and in my own experience is Varget.
hope that helps a little bit
Well, 4064 is my back up powder, reloader is too temprature sensative, a load I worked up with re15 in february, showed pressure signs when I was shooting in June.
Honestly in the 4 years I have been loading 308 for LR shooting, the most consistant powder I have seen reported, and in my own experience is Varget.
hope that helps a little bit
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Same here I switched to Rl15 for my M118 replica, only because it burns cleaner, and its made in the US.
I use less powder to get the same velocities as varget. Biggest thing for me is the ease when it comes to metering. Yes the Gov did go to Rl-15 only because of its cleaning burning properties and temp sensitivitie (it's just as good as Varget)
Hope this helps
Same here I switched to Rl15 for my M118 replica, only because it burns cleaner, and its made in the US.
I use less powder to get the same velocities as varget. Biggest thing for me is the ease when it comes to metering. Yes the Gov did go to Rl-15 only because of its cleaning burning properties and temp sensitivitie (it's just as good as Varget)
Hope this helps
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
I have also been using the same powder and the same bullet and the same gun. That being said I am also planning on switching to the 175 SMK lol. The only difference is that I want to try Varget after testing out the IMR-4064 on the 175's. I have no experiance with the powder your asking about so I cant say witch I like better. But with 42.0gn of IMR-4064, 168gn BTHP SMK, CCI BR2 Primer, Lapua brass, and a COAL of 2.803 out of my SPS Tac on most days Im sub .5 MOA. What type of load are you shooting now with what results?
I have also been using the same powder and the same bullet and the same gun. That being said I am also planning on switching to the 175 SMK lol. The only difference is that I want to try Varget after testing out the IMR-4064 on the 175's. I have no experiance with the powder your asking about so I cant say witch I like better. But with 42.0gn of IMR-4064, 168gn BTHP SMK, CCI BR2 Primer, Lapua brass, and a COAL of 2.803 out of my SPS Tac on most days Im sub .5 MOA. What type of load are you shooting now with what results?
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Do nothing simply because Uncle Sugar does it.
Do nothing simply because Uncle Sugar does it.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
I guess it has nothing to do with the fact that the Lake City plant is run by ATK, who owns Alliant.
I guess it has nothing to do with the fact that the Lake City plant is run by ATK, who owns Alliant.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
My current load is:
168gn SMK seated 2.350" to ogive
42.5gn IMR-4064
Win. Brass
CCI#200 Primer
This is the same load I started with and the only thing I've every changed is my seating depth. I went from roughly 1.5 MOA bone stock off a bipod to .5 MOA now. I would say my two biggest gains came from trading the Hogue stock for a Bell and Carlson medalist and adjusting my seating depth.
Two notes about this load that I would change further if I wasn't starting over with 175's is I would increase the powder charge as it seem pretty slow because of the shorter barrel and switch to BR primers.
My current load is:
168gn SMK seated 2.350" to ogive
42.5gn IMR-4064
Win. Brass
CCI#200 Primer
This is the same load I started with and the only thing I've every changed is my seating depth. I went from roughly 1.5 MOA bone stock off a bipod to .5 MOA now. I would say my two biggest gains came from trading the Hogue stock for a Bell and Carlson medalist and adjusting my seating depth.
Two notes about this load that I would change further if I wasn't starting over with 175's is I would increase the powder charge as it seem pretty slow because of the shorter barrel and switch to BR primers.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G.Ruff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it has nothing to do with the fact that the Lake City plant is run by ATK, who owns Alliant. </div></div>
This explains alot actually.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G.Ruff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it has nothing to do with the fact that the Lake City plant is run by ATK, who owns Alliant. </div></div>
This explains alot actually.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Do nothing simply because Uncle Sugar does it. </div></div>
Are you implying that our government might not always know what it's doing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Do nothing simply because Uncle Sugar does it. </div></div>
Are you implying that our government might not always know what it's doing?
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Its been a few years since I used Re-15. It didn't seem as temp sensitive as the IMRs I had experimented with prior to going with the 308.
Varget was being used by the guys I shot with and the ability to exchange ammo was very handy so I went with Varget. As hazy as my memory is about Re-15 it seemed to have a bit more felt recoil and flattened primers a bit more for any given velocity.
However it sure has a loyal following.
Good Luck
Its been a few years since I used Re-15. It didn't seem as temp sensitive as the IMRs I had experimented with prior to going with the 308.
Varget was being used by the guys I shot with and the ability to exchange ammo was very handy so I went with Varget. As hazy as my memory is about Re-15 it seemed to have a bit more felt recoil and flattened primers a bit more for any given velocity.
However it sure has a loyal following.
Good Luck
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Thanks notquiteright, I must be missing something though. I see Varget's max load listed at 41.7gn and it too is only in the 2500FPS column. Where do you find data on temperature sensitivity at?
Thanks notquiteright, I must be missing something though. I see Varget's max load listed at 41.7gn and it too is only in the 2500FPS column. Where do you find data on temperature sensitivity at?
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shocktroop0351</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks notquiteright, I must be missing something though. I see Varget's max load listed at 41.7gn and it too is only in the 2500FPS column. Where do you find data on temperature sensitivity at? </div></div>
Pay no attention to max listed load in your reloading book, especially if it's the sierra manual. Work up until you see pressure signs.
The hogdon reloading manual, if I remember correctly, starts above the sierra manual max charge.
Most guys here have loads of varget below a 175SMK in the 43.0 to 45.+ range. My personal load is 45.7 of varget seated .02 from the lands. 43.5 was a very accurate load also when I was testing.
Shooting a GAP Rock.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shocktroop0351</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks notquiteright, I must be missing something though. I see Varget's max load listed at 41.7gn and it too is only in the 2500FPS column. Where do you find data on temperature sensitivity at? </div></div>
Pay no attention to max listed load in your reloading book, especially if it's the sierra manual. Work up until you see pressure signs.
The hogdon reloading manual, if I remember correctly, starts above the sierra manual max charge.
Most guys here have loads of varget below a 175SMK in the 43.0 to 45.+ range. My personal load is 45.7 of varget seated .02 from the lands. 43.5 was a very accurate load also when I was testing.
Shooting a GAP Rock.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Shock-
there are quite a few threads on loads we shoot here on the Hide. The can of varget says 46 grains for 168, a bit of fudge depending on the case cap of the brand of brass you use.
Temp sensitivity is a bit more subjective in my case. I have shot varget from 0* to 100 and WHAT? Re-15 from 50 to 100 and what.
No pressure testing, just stable loads with a small change in POI with temp swings.
There are probably 3 dozen guys in here who have started on a different powder but now use 'dirty' varget because it is so stable. I am not knocking the Re series, just the guys I shoot with all use the same load and OAL so we can swap ammo and varget has been truely tested by our combined experiences.
But I cant PSI it for you.
need to add- I DONT shoot 46 grains, I use 44. However some of the NTPR guys run very hot loads in the texas heat, might ask them their experiences. PM one of them
Shock-
there are quite a few threads on loads we shoot here on the Hide. The can of varget says 46 grains for 168, a bit of fudge depending on the case cap of the brand of brass you use.
Temp sensitivity is a bit more subjective in my case. I have shot varget from 0* to 100 and WHAT? Re-15 from 50 to 100 and what.
No pressure testing, just stable loads with a small change in POI with temp swings.
There are probably 3 dozen guys in here who have started on a different powder but now use 'dirty' varget because it is so stable. I am not knocking the Re series, just the guys I shoot with all use the same load and OAL so we can swap ammo and varget has been truely tested by our combined experiences.
But I cant PSI it for you.
need to add- I DONT shoot 46 grains, I use 44. However some of the NTPR guys run very hot loads in the texas heat, might ask them their experiences. PM one of them
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shocktroop0351</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks notquiteright, I must be missing something though. I see Varget's max load listed at 41.7gn and it too is only in the 2500FPS column. Where do you find data on temperature sensitivity at? </div></div>
Pay no attention to max listed load in your reloading book, especially if it's the sierra manual. Work up until you see pressure signs.
The hogdon reloading manual, if I remember correctly, starts above the sierra manual max charge.
Most guys here have loads of varget below a 175SMK in the 43.0 to 45.+ range. My personal load is 45.7 of varget seated .02 from the lands. 43.5 was a very accurate load also when I was testing.
Shooting a GAP Rock.</div></div> Hey, just wanted to say thanks for the pointer about using Hodgdon data, you are correct that starting load with Varget is more than Sierra's max. I got my information off of their website. I also like how it lists the pressure, although some of the measurements are in CUP and some are PSI, which doesn't help much,haha. An interesting side note is I checked Alliant's website to see how their 175gn load compares to Sierra's, and they don't have a 175gn load listed for RE-15. But they do list 180gn Speer SP's at 45gn max. Thanks again for pointing out that all the data isn't the same depending on where you get it from.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shocktroop0351</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks notquiteright, I must be missing something though. I see Varget's max load listed at 41.7gn and it too is only in the 2500FPS column. Where do you find data on temperature sensitivity at? </div></div>
Pay no attention to max listed load in your reloading book, especially if it's the sierra manual. Work up until you see pressure signs.
The hogdon reloading manual, if I remember correctly, starts above the sierra manual max charge.
Most guys here have loads of varget below a 175SMK in the 43.0 to 45.+ range. My personal load is 45.7 of varget seated .02 from the lands. 43.5 was a very accurate load also when I was testing.
Shooting a GAP Rock.</div></div> Hey, just wanted to say thanks for the pointer about using Hodgdon data, you are correct that starting load with Varget is more than Sierra's max. I got my information off of their website. I also like how it lists the pressure, although some of the measurements are in CUP and some are PSI, which doesn't help much,haha. An interesting side note is I checked Alliant's website to see how their 175gn load compares to Sierra's, and they don't have a 175gn load listed for RE-15. But they do list 180gn Speer SP's at 45gn max. Thanks again for pointing out that all the data isn't the same depending on where you get it from.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Hey notquiteright, thanks for the info. I think I will just pick up some Varget too. I'll end up ladder testing all three powders and I'll probably pick the one that seems to group the most. Thanks again.
Hey notquiteright, thanks for the info. I think I will just pick up some Varget too. I'll end up ladder testing all three powders and I'll probably pick the one that seems to group the most. Thanks again.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
175gr SMK, 44.2gr Varget, Hornady match brass, necks turned, CCI 200 primers (I tested, between CCI's 200's and match and the change in SD was not statistically significant.... winchester is a different story) Works great!!!!
175gr SMK, 44.2gr Varget, Hornady match brass, necks turned, CCI 200 primers (I tested, between CCI's 200's and match and the change in SD was not statistically significant.... winchester is a different story) Works great!!!!
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
Been using IMR 4064 for my 175 SMK in both bolt gun and gas gun. I use 43 grains for gas gun and 44.2 grains for by bolt gun. Please work up your load accordingly. I've tried RL15 for my bolt, but didn't like the velocity so I stay with IMR. Good luck.
Been using IMR 4064 for my 175 SMK in both bolt gun and gas gun. I use 43 grains for gas gun and 44.2 grains for by bolt gun. Please work up your load accordingly. I've tried RL15 for my bolt, but didn't like the velocity so I stay with IMR. Good luck.
Re: RE-15 or IMR-4064?
I use IMR4064 form my 168gr FGMM duplicate. (FGMM is my current duty load)
However for competition I use RE15 pushing 175SMK, 178AMAX or 178 BTHP depending on use and availability.
I use IMR4064 form my 168gr FGMM duplicate. (FGMM is my current duty load)
However for competition I use RE15 pushing 175SMK, 178AMAX or 178 BTHP depending on use and availability.
