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recoil diff 308 win and 7mm rem mag

NamHunter

Private
Minuteman
Apr 9, 2014
16
0
I'm looking at the difference in recoil between the 7mm Rem Mag and the 308 Win.

Assuming that one loads both cartridges with 150gr bullets to a velocity of 2950ft/s and assuming no difference in rifle weight etc. both rifles should have the same recoil (according to newton).
Yet the 308 uses c.20% -25% less powder to achieve these velocities.

How does the lower powder charge required to achieve 2950 ft/s in the 308 influence the recoil? Does the 308 kick less?

Would it be right to say that a difference in recoil between the two (if there is a difference) is contributed by the difference in gases accelerated. I.e. Less powder = less gasses produced/accelerated =less recoil for the 308?

Can someone please explain?
 
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

It is all explained here but to the condensed version is as follows.

the 7mm will have more recoil because momentum is mass times velocity. People forget to factor in powder charge into their mass calculation. 7mm will have more mass due to the higher powder charge.
 
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Magnum long action caliber vs standard short action caliber both shooting approximately 180gr bullets (150gr in your case).

Just a wild guess, but I'd say the bigger one will recoil more, by a fair margin.
 
if both guns are the same weight and the ammo is pushing the same bullet weight at the same speed, the recoil will be the same.
cheers.
 
if both guns are the same weight and the ammo is pushing the same bullet weight at the same speed, the recoil will be the same.
cheers.
I'm tinking like you about that but i don't know if different twist rifling or different groove number can affect recoil always same rifle weight,bullet weight and speed..?
 
I'm tinking like you about that but i don't know if different twist rifling or different groove number can affect recoil always same rifle weight,bullet weight and speed..?

That would affect speed, if the end result is the same speed, with the same projectile weight, and the same rifle weight, your shoulder will not notice a difference.
 
Just a wild ass guess but I'm gonna go with the one that uses more pressure will have more recoil. And the people who are saying won't make a difference are wrong... Come at me bro..:confused:
 
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Approximately 18 grains of powder more in the 7 rem mag and a couple hundred feet faster. I say the 7 kicks more. That was the difference in mine. Model 700 7 rem mag and a Savage 308 both similar scopes and stocks. 7 had a couple inches in barrel length more so weight was very similar.
 
I'm looking at the difference in recoil between the 7mm Rem Mag and the 308 Win.

Assuming that one loads both cartridges with 150gr bullets to a velocity of 2950ft/s and assuming no difference in rifle weight etc. both rifles should have the same recoil (according to newton).
Yet the 308 uses c.20% -25% less powder to achieve these velocities.

How does the lower powder charge required to achieve 2950 ft/s in the 308 influence the recoil? Does the 308 kick less?

Would it be right to say that a difference in recoil between the two (if there is a difference) is contributed by the difference in gases accelerated. I.e. Less powder = less gasses produced/accelerated =less recoil for the 308?

Can someone please explain?

I'm pretty much gonna go with Sir Issac. I will say that for the recoil to be the same, the bullets would have to undergo the same acceleration so barrel length and powder burn rate would have to be the same as well, not just muzzle velocity. When it comes to felt (perceived) recoil, the shape of the recoil pulse becomes important. Duration of the thrust is probably more important than actual lb/ft of force.
 
I'm looking at the difference in recoil between the 7mm Rem Mag and the 308 Win.

Assuming that one loads both cartridges with 150gr bullets to a velocity of 2950ft/s and assuming no difference in rifle weight etc. both rifles should have the same recoil (according to newton).
Yet the 308 uses c.20% -25% less powder to achieve these velocities.

How does the lower powder charge required to achieve 2950 ft/s in the 308 influence the recoil? Does the 308 kick less?

Would it be right to say that a difference in recoil between the two (if there is a difference) is contributed by the difference in gases accelerated. I.e. Less powder = less gasses produced/accelerated =less recoil for the 308?

Can someone please explain?

Yes, you have to account for the powder weight.

The powder weight contributes more to recoil than an equal amount of bullet weight because it's moving faster than the bullet is.
 
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better yet, why not speculate 150 g .284 boolet in 7mm-08 vs 150 g .284 boolet in 7mm rem mag.

also, i think a lot of your questions would be instantly answered if you sat down at the bench and fired the rounds in question back to back out of similar rifles.
 
If anyone is still confused about this here is a quick explanation. Free recoil energy is the term used to describe the kinetic (or "moving") energy that is imparted by the rifle. The calculation does not take into account the shooter; it's as if the rife was somehow floating in midair when it was fired and free recoil energy is the result of that event. Your shoulder has to deal with this energy; the feeling of recoil is also affected by the impulse shape, but that is beyond the scope of our discussion. Calculating the free recoil energy gives us a way to compare various cartridges. Let's take three popular cartridges to get a handle on this. From the initial post we'll take the 7mm Rem Mag and the 308 then we'll add in the 7-08 just to solidify the example. The 7mm Rem Mag and the 7-08 are the key comparison, but the 308 will give us some more insight as well.
Let's assume all the rifles are the same weight, and for fun the same barrel length and number of groves and whatever else... Next we'll assume the bullets are going the same speed, and to that end we'll assume that the quickloads software calculations are accurate for the purposes of this example. (Disclaimer: these loads may not be safe in YOUR rifle. Don’t act like an idiot when reloading by taking info from some crazy guy on the interweb thingy)
Rifle weight: 8 pound rifle system
Barrel length: 24 inches
Bullet weight: 168 grain (note: the bullets used for this are all Berger hybrid 168gr in appropriate caliber)
Using the same powder in all of the cartridges eliminates that as a variable. It’s not the best or even appropriate for the different cartridges, but it works for this example. First let’s look at the 308. Before the ignition of the round the 308 consists of a case, primer, lump of powder and some air inside the case and a bullet. When initiated by the primer the powder and the air go through a process of deflagration which is a fancy way to say they burn slower than the sound speed of the material. It’s not a high explosive after all when the case is mostly filled by the powder. The powder burns and produces high pressure gas and that pushes on the bullet and moves it down the barrel. When the bullet exits the bore the gas is still about 5000 – 10000 psi. That gas ends up shooting out and around the bullet and even in front of it. All that gas started as a mass of powder and a mass of air, and that mass doesn’t go away when it burns; it’s just converted to a different material state; from solid to gas. And that gas is moving just like the bullet, so that’s why we have to take it into account when we calculate the recoil energy of the rifle. The gas has kinetic energy too! I used the quickloads software to calculate a load for the cartridges with my preferred powder Reloader 17.

For the 308:
(308, 47.75gr re17, 168gr hybrid, 2700fps, 24” barrel, 8lbs rifle)
The free recoil energy is 16.46 ft/lbs.

For the 7mm Rem Mag:
(7mmRemMag, 55.12gr, re17, 168gr hybrid, 2700fps, 24” barrel, 8lbs rifle)
The free recoil energy is 18.00 ft/lbs

And finally the 7-08:
(7-08, 44.21gr, re17, 168gr hybrid, 2700fps, 24” barrel, 8lbs rifle)
The free recoil energy is 15.74 ft/lbs.

So even though the 7mm bullets are both going the same velocity and are the same weight, the difference in powder charge makes the 7mmRemMag recoil about 14% more than the 7-08. The 308 recoils a little more than the 7-08, because the 308 requires more powder to get the job done. With a different powder this may not be the case, but whatever, this is just a theoretical exercise.

Also, a quick note on muzzle brakes… The reason they work is that they divert the gas sideways by putting a wall in front of it. The forward and backward forces fight against each other which reduces the recoil and the resulting lateral or radial forces cancel out. The above example does not include muzzle brakes. Fyi

Here is a nice recoil calculator:
Recoil Calculator