Sidearms & Scatterguns Recoil spring weight. Picking the right one.

[SanPatHogger]

Shooting a Taurus PT92.
115gr plated bullets running 1,150 fps

Got the wolf spring kit a while ago and just got around to trying them last night.
Wolf says put the heaviest in and then work lighter. I put the 20# spring in and besides having to pull the slide harder I didn't notice a difference.
The gun cycles he same. I read and watched some videos, too light a spring can beat the frame and slide up, too heavy should make the muzzle drop from a lot of forward slide force. I watched my sights and I seem to end up higher on the target after the shot.
Just wondering what others are doing. This is the first thing I've done to the gun besides it getting a new locking block under warranty.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

What is your experience level with pistols?

It can take a while to get a feel for what the gun is doing and how things like spring changes affect it. Generally though, assuming the gun still cycles fully, a heavier spring will make it nosedive more when it returns to battery.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I have run this gun at a small local match 3 times. I think I bought it in 2013, shot at the range mosty.
Only in the past few years have I really shot with anybody who was a competitive shooter, and I feel I'm way better now than I was a year ago.
The reason I ordered the spring kit was the barrel was putting marks on the frame, thought maybe the slide was beating it up. Sent it to Tausrus and they put in a new locking block and I never changed the spring. Ran my handloads over the chronograph and found they are a little faster than I thought, so a heavier spring shouldn't hurt. Videos showed a heavier spring nose diving, But I dont seem to have that problem.
I shot withe the heavier spring, then the factory again, then heavy again. Racking the slide takes more effort.

Maybe next weekend I'll hve my buddy video a few shots with each and see if I shoot different.

 

[AFGWS]

The USPSA power factor with the data you've given puts it at 132.5. For my 6in 2011, I run an 8 pound spring and my loads are around 120ish for power factor. I'd try a 10 or 12 pound spring and see what you think. You may be able to search some of the more USPSA centered forums to see what others are using.

 

[308pirate]

Shooting a Taurus PT92.
115gr plated bullets running 1,150 fps

Got the wolf spring kit a while ago and just got around to trying them last night.
Wolf says put the heaviest in and then work lighter. I put the 20# spring in and besides having to pull the slide harder I didn't notice a difference.
The gun cycles he same. I read and watched some videos, too light a spring can beat the frame and slide up, too heavy should make the muzzle drop from a lot of forward slide force. I watched my sights and I seem to end up higher on the target after the shot.
Just wondering what others are doing. This is the first thing I've done to the gun besides it getting a new locking block under warranty.

Post a video of you shooting doubles, from the side.

I bet the gun isn't the problem, but only video will tell the tale.

 

[iceng]

What buttpirate said. Video, let it tell its story.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Ok, I will get someone to video me.

Is this a trick to make me wear my ghillie suit online?

 

[iceng]

Trick ? No.. corse not. We would never trick you.

However bonus points for a funny hat. Like, serious internet points.

 

[308pirate]

Is this a trick to make me wear my ghillie suit online?

We really want a closeup of the pistol and your hands

 

[SanPatHogger]

So I got a buddy to video me last night. I can post a picture but not a video. Have to do a little investigating.
Any tips? I don't have a youtube account or anything like that.

 

[Bluedog82]

So I got a buddy to video me last night. I can post a picture but not a video. Have to do a little investigating.
Any tips? I don't have a youtube account or anything like that.

If you have a Google account you basically have a YouTube account. Just upload there and post the link…you can always take it down later.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I did it.
Took the video in slow motion.

 

[Kadams1563]

Well first your grip needs work. You could also benefit from a. Little lighter spring.

The dip when the slide cycles forward could be reduced some by a lighter spring.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Well first your grip needs work. You could also benefit from a. Little lighter spring.

The dip when the slide cycles forward could be reduced some by a lighter spring.

Thank you "Giver of bad advice"
I kind of thought the same thing about the spring. It does nose dive a little.

Now go into more detail about my grip.

 

[Kadams1563]

Your support hand needs to by sucked in more to the frame and your left hand thumb needs to be under your other thumb. From the video it looks like your right thumb is being pushed against the pistol by your left thumb. They both should be in the pistol. Give me a bit and I’ll show you an example.

 

[Kadams1563]

 

[308pirate]

Now go into more detail about my grip.

That is why I asked. Whenever someone complains about the pistol not recoiling like it should and want to fix it with hardware, I immediately assume their grip is fubar.

I'm almost always right about that.

You got good advice from @Kadams1563 also notice the subtle difference in how his left wrist is rotated and yours is not. That makes a yuuuge difference in recoil control.

Your arms are also hyper-extended and your elbows are almost locked out (or so it seems from the pic). Both are no bueno for recoil management. Flex (bend at) your elbows just a tiny bit.

Don't take this personally but outside of practical pistol competitors and those who have had really good handgun training, the other 90% of people who own and shoot pistols are not very good at all. At least not by current standards.

 

[Kadams1563]

I’m not a know it all be all but I have about 25k rounds through a CZ shadow in USPSA and training classes. Sometimes I can’t shoot worth a damn but grip is always something to work on.

The best thing to do is go shoot rapid fire into the burn and really just focus on your grip. Don’t even worry about where your hitting on the target and just focus on tracking your sights. It might seem like your “wasting” ammo but when your not focused on what your hitting you can see your sights much better.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Thank you guys.
I'll work on these things.

 

[308pirate]

I did it.
Took the video in slow motion.

I'll be honest muzzle dip doesn't look bad at all in that slow mo video. Fixing your grip will do wonders, as well as learning how to shoot reactively to sight picture, how to shoot predictively, and when to use either technique.

High performance handgun shooting is a deep rabbit hole..................possibly deeper than any involving rifles.

 

[Gustav7]

Thank you guys.
I'll work on these things.

Highly suggest taking a legitimate training course as well. If you truly want to get better, there are so many things to fine tune with your stance/grip/posture/trigger finger/etc that you may not even realize you're doing/not doing.

In the video it looks like you may be leaning back slightly or "arching" your back a small amount. This happens a lot when your stance is the old school weaver stance crap. When you look at your arms and shoulders during recoil, the impulse is driving straight back through your whole body. It should be consumed by your elbows/arms like shock absorbers.

Grip, and the nuance involved in it, like @308pirate said is a deep hole. I think a common thing that happens, especially for guys with big hands (I did this for years), is not actually gripping hard enough. My big hands allowed me to have a relaxed grip and still be able to hit targets, but once I refined my grip and the force input by my grip, I was able to increase recoil control, and improve consistency and split time.

Here's a video from a recent USPSA match. I'm no grandmaster, so I'm positive I can improve a lot, but notice my stance is more athletic with slightly more weight on my left/front leg. Notice how the recoil is absorbed into the elbow area, allowing my upper body to stay upright without moving rearwards. What you can't see, is how hard I'm gripping the pistol, with more focus on gripping the hardest with my pinkies. The pinkies give the most leverage on the gun and can single handedly reduce a lot of your recoil impulse by themselves. Try it next time you shoot.

Good luck heading down the rabbit hole.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Highly suggest taking a legitimate training course as well. If you truly want to get better, there are so many things to fine tune with your stance/grip/posture/trigger finger/etc that you may not even realize you're doing/not doing.

In the video it looks like you may be leaning back slightly or "arching" your back a small amount. This happens a lot when your stance is the old school weaver stance crap. When you look at your arms and shoulders during recoil, the impulse is driving straight back through your whole body. It should be consumed by your elbows/arms like shock absorbers.

Grip, and the nuance involved in it, like @308pirate said is a deep hole. I think a common thing that happens, especially for guys with big hands (I did this for years), is not actually gripping hard enough. My big hands allowed me to have a relaxed grip and still be able to hit targets, but once I refined my grip and the force input by my grip, I was able to increase recoil control, and improve consistency and split time.

Here's a video from a recent USPSA match. I'm no grandmaster, so I'm positive I can improve a lot, but notice my stance is more athletic with slightly more weight on my left/front leg. Notice how the recoil is absorbed into the elbow area, allowing my upper body to stay upright without moving rearwards. What you can't see, is how hard I'm gripping the pistol, with more focus on gripping the hardest with my pinkies. The pinkies give the most leverage on the gun and can single handedly reduce a lot of your recoil impulse by themselves. Try it next time you shoot.

Good luck heading down the rabbit hole.

I am sure I don't grip the gun hard enough.
I don't have a stance.
This whole shooting pistol matches kind of happened by accident. I asked a customer about the Wilson Combat sticker on his truck. Now I shoot pistol matches. I'm not looking to go to grand master or nationals or anything like that, just making myself better.
I think I'm going to stick to limited class and add PCC.

 

[Kadams1563]

Don’t ask anyone about anything WC unless you want to go broke for real. That’s how I needed up with a Dan Wesson lol. Couldn’t swing a $3500 WC but I could swing a $1600 DW haha.