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Recommendations for cold weather gear...

N

noahmercy

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 7, 2010
390
0
54
Sheridan, Wyoming
for a guy who sweats profusely even when the temp is <span style="font-style: italic">very</span> low.

I recently bought a place with a little dab of property. It needs some landscaping work and I've been shoveling and hauling and doing other heavy physical labor. I sweat like a Baptist at a Hooters and I have been drenching my clothes with sweat. I have tried stripping layers off, but of course, when I slow down or the wind picks up and the feels-like temps drop into the -50s, I get deeply chilled, bordering on hypothermic very quickly.

What are some recommendations for base layers, materials (I know how effective wool is even when wet, but I don't want to have to pay for dry cleaning a couple times a week so machine washable stuff is preferred), and outer shells for active working conditions where I'll sweat up a storm? I figured with many folks on here who climb and have experience with cold weather ops there should be a bunch of good knowledge available.

Thanks for helping a fat old fart stay dry and cool while working in the Wyoming winter!
wink.gif
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Start with a smart wool base, and multiple light layers. I work outside in the winter a lot, and this works for me. I wear a base, fleece lined pants, carharrt overalls on bottom. On top it's, base,sweatshirt, thin wind proof coat. Remove layers before you start sweating. Good luck, it takes some trial error.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

if you sweat a lot I would go for straight wicking base layer and insulated layers that are not a shell to allow evaporation. The radical solution is vapor barrier base layer (usually sil-nylon) that just holds in the sweat so it does not wet the other layers
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

First thing is not to wear anything with cotton in it. At the least not next to your skin. There is a reason why climbers call cotton the "death cloth" once it get wet it dries very slowly. As George63 and OHtard pointed out, a wicking base layer or Smart Wool. Dress in layers so that you can remove or add as needed. The key is to remove layers before you start sweating. Once you start sweating and your clothes get damp your screwed. If its cotton it will take forever to dry. Synthetics dry faster, wool dries faster than cotton and keeps it insulating properties when damp.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Smartwool is a very good product and doesn't need to be dry cleaned.

Patagonia make a very good product but is pricey.

Marmot and Mountain Hardware make good products.

But you can also find good products at Cabelas or Bass Pro.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

I've been really happy with outerwear from Wiggy's. It handles sweating, stay's really warm and is machine washable. It's probably more expensive than what you can find at a sporting goods store, but I have been outside,drenched with sweat, in -20F and below wind chills without any problems except keeping my glasses clear.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

I do a lot of stand, and stalk hunting in very cold weather...
I use Sitka Gear and their layering system, when it's cold, wet,
and I might be moving or stalking a lot... when I'm not moving
much or sitting in a stand, or on a bluff, King of the Mountian
makes some of the best wool gear out there... both come in camo
and some non camo patterns
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Patagonia, Mountain Hardware and Arcteryx are my favorites at the moment. Like someone said it can be pricey. There are several websites that have these items on closeout or on sale.

Just have to look and do some digging.

Cut
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

+1 for Arcteryx.

Can't believe I forgot them. Their stuff is also pricey but bomb proof. I have a softshell jacket of theirs I've been wearing for 5 years. It's still one of my favorite jackets when the temps drop.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Thanks for the reccys, gents!

There are several shops in the area which handle SmartWool, so I'll start there I think. I also decided to try my Frogg Toggs over the top as a windstop that won't add any bulk or heat.

I did figure out that my Klim balaclava (with coolMax crown) with a watch cap over it keeps my head and neck comfy while wicking away the sweat and keeping it from dripping into my glasses. I'll just have to get another couple 'clavas so they have time to dry before the next use.
sick.gif
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

I have Smartwool and Thermax. If you can find Thermax, get it. It wicks better and dries out a LOT faster than Smartwool.

I almost froze to death hunting in the North Fork wearing Smartwool. Hiked a 3000' ridge in 20 deg at 4am and the wind came up when we got to the top of the ridge. It was the virgin trip for the Smartwool and I haven't used it since. I could not warm up, becasue it held the sweat too close to my skin. Yes, I had a windproof shell...

My Thermax was made by Duofold and it is nothing short of miraculous at keeping me warm AND dry. Coolmax is a next best.

Polar fleece Powerstretch also works well. I was wearing tights made of that for that trip in the North Fork and my legs and lower torso were fine. Probably kept me from hypothermia.

John
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Patagonia Capilene as a base layer is what I wear. Someone else commented on the cost - but what's your comfort, and maybe your life, worth? How many sets of base layers do you need?

I even used to wear it under leather on a motorcycle in the summer. Stuff works.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

If you sweat, wool is not your answer. Only synthetics will wick enough sweat and dry fast enough to keep your core warm.

If you have a local shop who carries Capilene, go there and have them show you...a drop of water on the inside of the fabric will spread out, disappear / wick to the outer layer of Capilene, the inside is dry while the outside is damp. Completely submerge it in a bucket of water, wring it out and then feel, the inner starts to get dry while the outer stays damp to dry or wick to the next layer where it can dry.

There are better synth at different things but Capilene does everything well and is the standard that every new gets compared too.

Weight to weight Capilene is not quite as warm as wool until you ad sweat then no comparison, wool does OK but cannot compete with synths controlling body climate.

Synth do absorb body order, not quite as bad as they did but still do. Wool a natural fiber is more comfortable over wider temp range, warm in cool and cool in warm wearing same layer.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Everyone seems to be recommending good stuff, but this can get expensive. How about some cheaper options?


Walmart, Target, thrift stores, and even the grocery store have clothing that will do the trick for outdoor work, and do it cheaply. The main ingredient I recommend here is polyester. Cheap and effective.

An old army field jacket is what I use as an outer layer. It has nylon in it and stops wind.

Do many thin layers, not one huge thick outer layer.

Wool is great, in my opinion, but expensive. I have had several sets of merino wool socks and had great luck with them. They don't require dry cleaning.

I agree, the main first step is to avoid cotton. Standard cotton underwear at the groin (whitey tighties or standard boxers in 50/50 cotton polyester) are probably O.K. and won't kill you if you do the rest correctly.

First layer of pants and shirt could be loose-fitting and thin polyester.

Examples:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Starter-Men-s-Long-Sleeve-Compression-Tee/11037553

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Starter-Men-s-Bubble-Wick-Training-Pants/15104614

Champion C9 pants and shirts

http://www.target.com/C9-Champion-T...m_brand-bin&searchRank=salesrank&frombrowse=1


http://www.target.com/Champion-Robo...m_brand-bin&searchRank=salesrank&frombrowse=1

Polyester fleece as an outer layer will be nice to put on while standing around:

http://tacticalgearplus.net/images/outdoor-apparel/large/FleeceJacket.jpg

The fleece will be drafty in the wind, but that draft dries the sweat while still trapping some warm air.

Try working while wearing only the thinner layers. Start your hard efforts when cold, not when you have enough on to be comfortable. What I mean is that if you are comfortable in the beginning, then start working, you will quickly overheat. Start work with a slight chill, then while working you'll be comfortable. You are probably working with too much clothing on.


Nate
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

If your outdoor experience is going to be close to home or a vehicle, then the clothing you have is less critical - you can always get out of the cold if it gets too bad.

However, I have, and will continue to, spend some time in remote high-altitude backcountry on foot, a place where inadequate or failed gear can put one seriously at risk. For that use, I buy the most suitable gear for those conditions, and I don't care what it costs.

Not everyone does that, of course. People with less rigorous requirements will have more choices.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Nates right. Polyester, polyester, polyester. Some weaves are more efficient at moving sweat off your skin (the best are waffled or fuzzy on the inside and smoother on the outside) but a good old fashioned polyester knit shirt will keep you way warmer and dryer than just about anything else.

Cotton is hydroscopic, which means the fibers actuall absorb water. Polyester is hydrophobic, which means that the fibers themselves repel water. Moisture will sit in between fibers and this is where you will begin to pay money... for the research and manufacturing costs of shaping polyester to channel moisture quickly away from your skin.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are probably working with too much clothing on.</div></div>

This is a good point. Comfort and survival in the cold is about insulation and moisture management. Get wet and you're going to get cold and possibly die.

When I cycle, hike, hunt, or run in cold weather, I usually strip a pretty light layer for the strenuous stuff. That hike I mentioned in my last post, I had on my fleece tights, polyester shell pants and my long underwear shirt. Everything else was in the pack.

You have to balance calories burned with temperature and moisture management. If you stop working, begin to bundle up. I agree with Nate, my second layer is a mid-weight fleece. Yes it is alittle drafty, but that is a good thing as it allows the sweat to evaporate. If that is happening too quickly and I'm still cold, then a heavy fleece and if needed, a windproof shell.

If you put on something windproof to quickly, it will hold the moisture in and you will stay colder longer. It's really a dance when you do it right. Putting on clothes, taking off clothes, opening pit zips, closing them...

And don't forget your head! The majority of heat loss is from your head. You have to manage moisture movement there as well. When I hunt, I usually have on a very light beanie made of wicking material by OR or nothing. Once I get to the top of the ridge, a heavy beanie goes on.

John
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The majority of heat loss is from your head.</div></div>

Actually, that's a myth. There's a <span style="font-style: italic">little</span> truth to it simply because it's usually the last thing on our body which we cover. But you don't lose any more heat from your head than you do from any other uncovered body part of similar surface area.

When your core body temperature starts to drop, your body reduces blood flow to your extremities. I have found that if I keep my feet warm, the rest of me does well.

Here's a link on that myth:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Old school Army mnemonic for COLD:

Keep it CLEAN;

Don't OVERHEAT;

Wear it LOOSE (and in LAYERS);

Keep it DRY.

True, there are varieties of clothing and base layers worn by cold clime people all over the world that do not require dry-cleaning. Reindeer and other hides may not be fashionable in Sheridan.

True you can buy all kinds of stuff at Wal-Mart or the local thrift or surplus store. You may end looking like you bought your wardrobe in an Afghan souk.
smile.gif


There are lots of polypropylene options at darn near any good outdoors house or on clearance at Sierra Trading Post.

Start with either real silk or silk-weight polypro liners. These will wick sweat away from your skin into your other layers.

Mid or heavyweight synthetic long john tops or bottoms next, followed by your street clothes. Progressively heavier layers of synthetic fleece (100, 200, or 300-weight) or lightweight poly batting liners (field jacket/field pants liners) over that.

Windproof shells (parka, coat, or pants) over those to prevent evaporative cooling from sweeping away warmth built in the air layers between you and the environment.

A hat will help regulate temperature. Put it on to stay warm. Take it off (and other layers) if you're moving or working.

A good parka, jacket, or coat with "Pit zips" to allow body core ventilation without stripping off your outer wind/waterproof layer.

Cheap options -- go to www.unclesamsretailoutlet and you can buy new old stock GI silkweight layers and GI wool shirts. You can get surplus field jacket and pants liners on the web, as well as GI fleece jackets and farmer john bibs and pants.

Winter life in the Rocky Mountain states is no joke.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The majority of heat loss is from your head.</div></div>

Actually, that's a myth. There's a <span style="font-style: italic">little</span> truth to it simply because it's usually the last thing on our body which we cover. But you don't lose any more heat from your head than you do from any other uncovered body part of similar surface area.

When your core body temperature starts to drop, your body reduces blood flow to your extremities. I have found that if I keep my feet warm, the rest of me does well.

Here's a link on that myth:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour
</div></div>

Lindy,

You continue to be a ceaseless source of useful information. I stand corrected.

And +1 on the feet thing... cold feet, bad day. Hands too.

There just is no substitute for good gear in the cold. Well, perhaps a roaring fire, a good porter and the love of my life. But we digress...
wink.gif


John
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

On topic:

I think thin and cheap polyester on the bottom layer is best. I actually prefer it to be loose-fitting, also. No need for tight "sausage wrap" to stay warm.

Thermax is great, too, just a fancy type of polyester.

Thicker polyester "fluffy" layer on top of that for slow times and windy/standing.

Windbreaking loose layer on top for standing in wind, IF you are cool and dry. Windbreaking layer on top, such as Gore-tex, is like wearing a plastic sack if you are working hard. You have to allow air flow to stay comfortable during exertion.

Neck gaiters and hoods help me stay warm when inactive.

Thin hat over my bald spot on my head with thin layer on ears helps stay comfy, too, no matter conditions.

Get in vehicle when really cold and go warm by the fire!

Nate
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Warm core = warm hands and feet.

Cold core = cold hands and feet.

Keep the core warm, and your feet and hands will stay warmer. Try adding layers to the core,even a vest , and watch your hands toast.

 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Another idea along the core temperature idea:

Vests. Vests keep core warm but allow arms freedom of motion for work.

Try a thick puffy vest when you stop working.

Nate
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

For a mid/top layer, you might look at the Patagonia Nano Puff Jacket or Pullover. It's a thin synthetic puffy (insulated) jacket. They are well made, very lightweight, and pretty warm. They are very popular amongst cold weather backpackers and campers (backpackers especially because of the weight). They are warm enough you can wear them as a top layer when it is cold and thin enough you wear them under an outer layer when it is really cold. They're also pretty reasonably priced as these things go.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

I sometimes wear a pair of thin worsted wool dress pants while hunting. They are brown plaid/textured. I bought them from a thrift store, probably from an old man born in the 20's. They are quite comfortable, even when damp.


Nate
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Layer with a wicking base. Here in the North Country we have a sayin, "Kotton Kills".
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

Like a few mentioned, if you're near vehicles or buildings, its just not that critical. Simply bring extra clothing and switch out when it gets sweaty. If you are way out in the boonies, then moisture management combined with proper layering is key. Moisture management means not sweating: you should not be toasty warm and take the layers off well in advance when exercising. If you are sweating a lot, then you are screwing up.

Polypro
polyester clothing
fleece
down
gortex shell

dems my layers. The down is for when it gets real cold.
 
Re: Recommendations for cold weather gear...

If the temp is below 20 or so, no need for waterproof clothing as it will prevent sweat from evaporating. Even goretex is not really that breathable.
 
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