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Rifle Scopes Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

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Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 19, 2007
1,509
4
Cora, Wyoming
I have an DPMS AR10 16" TAC 308. I have a Trijicon 1.2-4 on it, which works fine but I'd also like to get a faster acquisition red dot type sight.
I see everything from $29.95 to $600 bucks. I want something durable, doesn't need 25 different features, but rugged and as inexpensive as possible. Planned use is point blank to 200 yards max. (Yes it's one of my "doomsday" guns)
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I have zero experence with these red dot scopes, but I do recall a lot of talk about Aimpoints. (Rugged, long battery life) Maybe someone with a little experence will chime in soon.

Good Q btw, I'm curious myself.

-Pat
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

Do yu really want to cheap out if your life depends on it. Save a bit more and get an ACOG.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I have less than 3" of rail space to play with and no iron sights whatsover, so I've been interested in one of these smaller Micro T-1 type optics for some time.

If they're really that robust, may give it a try. In this category, not having seen the units in hand, am guessing I'd still prefer the Eotech XPS3 series reticule options over what Aimpoint offers.

Wish the mega price tag was also micro
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

Should be able to locate a used Aimpoint Comp M2 for that kind of dough.
I'm an Eotech fan, but I run an Aimpoint 2moa dot CompM2 (M68) on the SHTF gun because it can be left on all the time (HUGE battery life-talking years here) and they are dependable as all get out.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I recommend an Aimpoint Comp or Comp ML series (2,3 or 4), 2 MOA dot size, on a LaRue mount. I have a Comp M3 on my 6920 and the smaller 2MOA dot is night for work beyond 100 yards or so. For closer-in work you can simply turn up the intensity of the dot, which blooms it enough to actually make it a bit larger - it jumps right out at you.

I know the EOTechs have their adherents, but if you read a lot of class AARs at places such as 10-8Forums or M4carbine.net, you'll quickly conclude the Aimpoint is vastly superior in the reliability department.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Should be able to locate a used Aimpoint Comp M2 for that kind of dough.
I'm an Eotech fan, but I run an Aimpoint 2moa dot CompM2 (M68) on the SHTF gun because it can be left on all the time (HUGE battery life-talking years here) and they are dependable as all get out. </div></div>

big +1 here! The smaller T1 or H1 would work well also. With these you could have a future option of a lower powered variable with the T1 mounted in a 1 o'clock off set ring mounted to your variable without looking obnoxious.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I suspect you already have a great scope in place that will serve your needs. Have you ever tried using your Trijicon with a lens cap covering the objective?

Depending on how you have mounted your scope, (if your scope's occular/rear lens is behind the charging handle, move it as far forward as allows you to get clear focus on the reticle), you can likely use the Bindon Aiming Concept mode of quick reaction shooting. BAC is both eyes open, lit reticle on, or objective covered so reticle is plainly visible.

http://www.trijicon.com/Trijicon.cfm?CFID=5756290&CFTOKEN=60213411

Search for Bindon Aiming Concept on Trijicon's site link above.

You may note a change of impact, but as you have a 1.5-4x Trijicon already, and they are great sights, you might investigate your options before buying another device. After all, you have magnification already and most Aimpoint guys wind up going with some kind of multiplier to get what you already have.

I like the Trijicon Reflex sight with triangle reticle myself, but have thought of trying one of their variable scopes on a field rifle.

As far as cost of electronic sights goes, knock offs are usually just that. Your Accupoint will probably do all you could want or need if you experiment with it for a while. If you have a Butler-Creek flip-up objective lens cover, try your Accupoint out using the BAC technique.

As a guy who owns an AR-10 or two; if you are figuring your 10 to be a run/gun sort of rig, I think the 12lb weight of a 10 with 20rd mag puts it at a disadvantage to a 9lb AR-15 w/30rds. If anything, you could probably use a more powerful scope unless your doomsday scenario involves urban house clearing. Even with a 16" barrel you have a 500yd weapon. Get your sight system setup to enable all your weapon's potential and then exploit all your AR-10's strengths.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

Agreed, the Aimpoints longer lasting battery is a plus, but I weigh that with my limited experience that the EoTech's can take more abuse given the protective hood.

I'm not familiar with the latest Aimpoint's and if they incorporate any armoring. I'm trying to decide between the Micro T-1 vs XPS3 myself, if they'll work for me given the very limited available mounting space.

The T-1 looked to have an exposed shell compared to XPS3 series' protective hood.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

Not to be a wise guy, but really, unless you plan to use your optic for opening bottles of beer or breaking windshields, the "armoring" on the EOTech isn't buying you anything.

Armoring or not, they don't continue to work the way the Aimpoints do. Read the AARs from Pat Rogers and others who conduct demanding carbine classes week in and week out around the country. Aimpoints take the guff and keep working - not so with EOs as a rule.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

If the weapons are sitting around in the stockroom for years waiting for the op's doomsday event, that's maybe years or a generation ahead, who knows? My concern with the Trijicon Reflex sight triangle reticule is, what happens when the element loses its glow? Is it still usable? Partly.

At least if I'm stocked with batteries now, I can make Aimpoints and EoTechs still perform their duties easier than sending to the factory for reconditioning, every 5 years or so, while the factory is still standing pre doomsday/event.

Reverse side of the argument, when the red dots go blank dead without batteries and remain useless. I'll give preference to something which will leave me with some semblance of a usable reticule, maybe it can multitask on other weapons too.

It'll be interesting to see what the RKI's here will recommend for the op's stated doomsday purpose. Maybe RKI's will say forget about the Aimpoint-EoTech and their Micro versions for this application.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I have an eotech 552 D1 NIB for sale in the "sale" section ocmes with GG&G covers ($37 worth of value) along with a Neoprene scope coat shipping included in price. Was bought from a shop in the US in the but would not work on the bolt gun I bought it for. It has never been used only mounted and then put back in the box.

Cheers paul.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

Check out this reddot sight made by Elcan, if I ever buy another reddot this will be it.
http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/elcan-spectrerd-red-dot-optical-sight-p-1381.html
One thing that set's this apart from the other's is, you can get it with BDC knob's on it, both elev. & windage. This means if you are sighted in at 100 yards, but you get a target thats 500 yards away, you can simply dial the elevation knob to 500 yards, and get ready to hear that wonderful word..... HIT!
It's the only reddot sight I know of with BDC knob's. I have the optical version of this sight and love it, one of the best retical's I'v ever seen.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I run an Aimshot holo on my AR, runs about $130 and is plenty sturdy...figure my co-worker who is an Iraq veteren sniper and owns 6 of them on his AR's and Mini 14's probably knows what's up. Downside is they use LR44's which is no big deal as they are cheap on the internet. The upside is they use LR44's so it is not bulky like an EOtech so it won't take up precious rail space or require a custom mount to slide forward if you are using iron backups. Another thought is the Jpoint by JP Enterprises, I haven't used one myself, but they look like they could get the job done esp. if mounted offset for close work while keeping that trijicon up top.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out this reddot sight made by Elcan, if I ever buy another reddot this will be it.
http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/elcan-spectrerd-red-dot-optical-sight-p-1381.html
</div></div>

I'm impressed by the "Battery Life: Typically 5 - 6 years"

Does it have an Integrated MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny throw lever mount, or is it an extra accessory that's going to cost me another $200?

Also, are those MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny accessory attachment points on the top and sides, very little space if it is.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointman_FL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to be a wise guy, but really, unless you plan to use your optic for opening bottles of beer or breaking windshields, the "armoring" on the EOTech isn't buying you anything.</div></div>

Given how many optics I've broken just sitting in my padded cases, "armoring" or some semblance thereof, matters to me to some degree. That's why I've chosen ATILLAs over ATPIALs etc.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gorge Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Given how many optics I've broken just sitting in my padded cases, "armoring" or some semblance thereof, matters to me to some degree. That's why I've chosen ATILLAs over ATPIALs etc.</div></div>
Lost me how an ATILLA/PEQ15 relate to the topic?
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gorge Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Given how many optics I've broken just sitting in my padded cases, "armoring" or some semblance thereof, matters to me to some degree. That's why I've chosen ATILLAs over ATPIALs etc.</div></div>
Lost me how an ATILLA/PEQ15 relate to the topic? </div></div>

relates to: semblance of armoring, durability, robustness, etc. aspect being primary basis for selection <span style="text-decoration: underline">which is being discussed</span> HTH
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

New Accupoints allow user to turn up the reticle illumination level for daytime use. If you already own a 1-4x or 1.25-4x what will a dot sight do for you aside from make you wish you had the accupoint when you have a target at any real distance.

An AR-10 is not some short-range puppy like the M4 carbines are. That is a 500yd weapon or better.

If you want to screw around with dot sights, just buy a Bushnell, Sightron, or Vortex. A .308 AR, even with shorty barrel is way more rifle than any M4.

Recall seeing a post on Natl Match US from an Army or USAF Captain stationed in Iraq. The guy was a Service Rifle competitor and bemoaned not being able to get an AR with a 20" barrel so he could deliver rounds on the enemy past 350 yds.

An AR-10 with 16 or 18" barrel will go the distance for sure, but not with no dot sight holding it back.

An AR-10 with 20 rd mag weighs about 13 lbs compared to maybe 9.5 for an M4 w/30rd mag. If you are some 6'8" 275lb kid who played tight-end in college, maybe you don't notice another 4lbs?

If Mr. Humble really wants a new sight system, buy one; but get something that enhances your ability to deliver accurate fire from your AR-10. I am sure you could get some LaRue gizmo/mount that tosses your dot sight aside when it is not in use. Add another $200 for that piece of kit. And add another 1/2lb to your 13.5lb rifle to set it up with one.

The 2.5-10 NightForce is a primo optic for a AR-10 carbine. The FC2 reticle is very versatile.

Dot sight makes sense on an M4 if you are doing urban searches and expect close in situations. Put a dot sight on your AR-10 and you lose more capability than you could ever gain. If you were shooting 55 or 62 gr .223 ammo then it is another matter.

Accupoint is a pretty damn good sight, if you learn how to use it.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gorge Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out this reddot sight made by Elcan, if I ever buy another reddot this will be it.
http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/elcan-spectrerd-red-dot-optical-sight-p-1381.html
</div></div>

I'm impressed by the "Battery Life: Typically 5 - 6 years"

Does it have an Integrated MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny throw lever mount, or is it an extra accessory that's going to cost me another $200?

Also, are those MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny accessory attachment points on the top and sides, very little space if it is. </div></div>

Yes, it has a built on mount, good one to. And those are Picatinny rail's on the top and one side. They can be taken off and moved to the other side also. They are just for a light or IR light if your running a NV scope with it. (They are made of rubber believe it or not.) Great sight though.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I don't like the EOTech's at all. I had 2 of them and 1 Aimpoint, the Aimpoint can be seen no matter what your doing and is easy to set. The EOTech is a pain in the ass to set and shut off, and mine washed out in sun light everytime I used them! They also have a funny fuzzy glow to them, not a sharp look. Just my opinion, I'd still go with the Elcan but Aimpoint is a great sight as well.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

dmachine, thanks for your reply. I wouldn't have believed rails are rubber.

The expert users here may just convince me to ditch the Eotech platform if I find one better.

I like the looks of the Elcan also, to tell the truth, another aspect why I selected the Eotech, in addition to robust construction, was the price. Aimpoint NV model with scope mounts, etc. went over budget for me.

Not as an expert, but I also thought if in a back up role, if my ir laser aimers go down and I mount it with NV, I can see the Eotech reticule better. That Aimpoint dot under NV is hard to find for me.

I'm interested to see what Mr. Humble selects, that's the important thing in this thread. I have a whole lot to learn here.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gorge Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dmachine, thanks for your reply. I wouldn't have believed rails are rubber.

The expert users here may just convince me to ditch the Eotech platform if I find one better.

I like the looks of the Elcan also, to tell the truth, another aspect why I selected the Eotech, in addition to robust construction, was the price. Aimpoint NV model with scope mounts, etc. went over budget for me.

Not as an expert, but I also thought if in a back up role, if my ir laser aimers go down and I mount it with NV, I can see the Eotech reticule better. That Aimpoint dot under NV is hard to find for me.

I'm interested to see what Mr. Humble selects, that's the important thing in this thread. I have a whole lot to learn here. </div></div>

That rubber is not a soft rubber, it's pretty hard.
If you like the EOTech, use it. Don't let anyone talk you out of something you like, already have and are using. The EOTech sight is not junk, I just don't like the way they work or the way the retical looks. I also have a hard time seeing the retical in bright light. The Aimpoint has a "super bright" setting when all the way up so you can see it in bright sunlight. (I think the Elcan does as well.) But thats just my opinion, which is worthless really. If you like the EOTech, use it. If not, well then it's time to look into something else.
Being an AR-10 / .308, I would go with the IOR 2-12x scope. However you said you want faster acquisition, in that case I would look at the IOR 1.5-8x with the CQB retical. This would be a great all around scope you could leave on all the time and be ready for anything. However it may be out of your price range, take a look.
http://www.valdada.com/catalog/db21c65d-2429-4509-b1d5-f4dbea62f0b9.aspx
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

I thing the Elcan Spectre DR is a novel idea, however weighing in at just shy of a pound and a half (1.3lbs I think), it's a bit heavy IMO for a room-broom carbine.

Aimpoints will rule the roost per battery life hands down, but I've always had preference towards the 1/65 moa EOtech reticle.

I'm waiting to get my hands on the new EOtech XPS...
eotech_XPS.jpg


I don't know what your budget is, but have you entertained a S&B Shortdot or a NF 1-4x24, 2.5-10x24?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gorge Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gorge Drifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Given how many optics I've broken just sitting in my padded cases, "armoring" or some semblance thereof, matters to me to some degree. That's why I've chosen ATILLAs over ATPIALs etc.</div></div>
Lost me how an ATILLA/PEQ15 relate to the topic? </div></div>

relates to: semblance of armoring, durability, robustness, etc. aspect being primary basis for selection <span style="text-decoration: underline">which is being discussed</span> HTH</div></div>
Okay...I don't use my gear in real world, just airsoft matches after school.
grin.gif
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

doorkicker said:
I thing the Elcan Spectre DR is a novel idea, however weighing in at just shy of a pound and a half (1.3lbs I think), it's a bit heavy IMO for a room-broom carbine.

Aimpoints will rule the roost per battery life hands down, but I've always had preference towards the 1/65 moa EOtech reticle.

I'm waiting to get my hands on the new EOtech XPS...
eotech_XPS.jpg


That item F'n rocks.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

elcan specter does not have enough eye relief for the ar10 in my opinion, I own one.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Gorge Drifter said:
dmachine, thanks for your reply. (snipped )
Being an AR-10 / .308, I would go with the IOR 2-12x scope. However you said you want faster acquisition, in that case I would look at the IOR 1.5-8x with the CQB retical. This would be a great all around scope you could leave on all the time and be ready for anything. However it may be out of your price range, take a look.
http://www.valdada.com/catalog/db21c65d-2429-4509-b1d5-f4dbea62f0b9.aspx </div></div>

I bought a brand new IOR 2-12 two years ago. Aside from the fact that the scope and mounts weighed nearly 3 pounds, the scope was junk. Sent it back to IOR and was told it was in perfect condition by letter. Well, if you call optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x "perfect"; and oil on the glass reticle, plus being unable to get crosshair and target in focus "perfect", I guess it was...

An AR-10 with even a 10rd magazine will weigh 11.5-12 pounds. Add a 3lb scope and you are really taking a step in the wrong direction.

If you want something fast & accurate, with some illumination aspect to it like Tritium, if you can shoot Iron Sights, maybe consider a carryhandle and front sight set with Tritium blade? Irons will deliver the rounds with precision at good distance, like 500/600 yds. How well does a dot sight perform at that range?

I have an AR-10 upper with an A2 upper receiver. Drilled another mounting hole in the carryhandle so a Reflex in carryhandle mount will work. It is a nice setup, compact and lightweight.

As far as dot sights go, on an M4 or tactical shotgun; sure! On a rifle? Why handicap yourself in a contest where if you don't win you die?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">elcan specter does not have enough eye relief for the ar10 in my opinion, I own one. </div></div>

What Specter are you talking about? The one we are talking about, The Specter RD (Reddot) has "unlimited eye relief", the DR 1-4x has 2.75" which is still alot better than the Trijicon's 1.5", and the Specter OS 3x I have also has just under 3", any of which I would have no trouble with on a .308 / AR-10. (Except the Trijicon)
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Gorge Drifter said:
dmachine, thanks for your reply. (snipped )
Being an AR-10 / .308, I would go with the IOR 2-12x scope. However you said you want faster acquisition, in that case I would look at the IOR 1.5-8x with the CQB retical. This would be a great all around scope you could leave on all the time and be ready for anything. However it may be out of your price range, take a look.
http://www.valdada.com/catalog/db21c65d-2429-4509-b1d5-f4dbea62f0b9.aspx </div></div>

I bought a brand new IOR 2-12 two years ago. Aside from the fact that the scope and mounts weighed nearly 3 pounds, the scope was junk. Sent it back to IOR and was told it was in perfect condition by letter. Well, if you call optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x "perfect"; and oil on the glass reticle, plus being unable to get crosshair and target in focus "perfect", I guess it was...

An AR-10 with even a 10rd magazine will weigh 11.5-12 pounds. Add a 3lb scope and you are really taking a step in the wrong direction.

If you want something fast & accurate, with some illumination aspect to it like Tritium, if you can shoot Iron Sights, maybe consider a carryhandle and front sight set with Tritium blade? Irons will deliver the rounds with precision at good distance, like 500/600 yds. How well does a dot sight perform at that range?

I have an AR-10 upper with an A2 upper receiver. Drilled another mounting hole in the carryhandle so a Reflex in carryhandle mount will work. It is a nice setup, compact and lightweight.

As far as dot sights go, on an M4 or tactical shotgun; sure! On a rifle? Why handicap yourself in a contest where if you don't win you die? </div></div>

Like any scope there is aways someone that has had a bad one. I have a 2-12x I just bought a couple month's ago, with the ring's it's about 2 lbs., the scope itself is 28 oz. I'm not sure why your's weighed 3 lbs? The one I have has incredible glass and couldn't be sharper. Everytime I show it to someone they are amazed with the glass in it. (And these guy's all own S&B, USO, NF etc., etc.) I also own a 3x IOR scope for AR's & stuff like that, (set up for 5.56mm / 62 gr.) it too is pretty sweet, super sharp glass, great retical, and always in focus. Maybe I just got lucky, but alot of what I'v read also stated the glass was top notch, I bought mine from Lib. Optics & I feel pretty confident that if I had a problem they would try to help me out. We all have some scope company we don't like, as for me it's Leupold. Alot of people love them and have very good luck with them, me.... never again!
Click to expand...
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

Thank you to all who assisted me. I appreciate the information. I can only hope Mr. Humble also benefits.

Maybe I'll post a different thread later with the details, so as to not interfere and detract from Mr. Humble's needs, as I'm restricted to a 5.56 M855 only platform. Thought I could also benefit from this thread.

Pic of Eotech XPS looks great, too bad they couldn't have done it with AA Batteries mounted the same way (width would be no problem for me) and in Coyote Brown, Sage or something, Black is not in. Hate to be tempted to spray it and ruin that pretty thing.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's amazing the lack of knowledge on this subject here on the hide. Go to m4carbine and read up people. </div></div>

Amen. There's nothing the matter with not knowing, at least as long as one is willing to learn.

You have to love the Internet, where emotion and opinion (often uninformed, but nonetheless fiercely held) trump empirical evidence every time. A trainer such as Pat Rogers, who frequently documents his classes with AARs, sees more Aimpoints, EOTechs and scopes in a month than most of us will see in a lifetime.

The OP wanted a red dot from close in to 200 yards max. Yep, an AR-10 will shoot effectively way past that, but that's not what he intends. For the role he specified, an Aimpoint is hard to beat (including the criteria of reliability, usability and durability). The best scope on the planet will work hard to keep up with it for CQB work, and the Aimpoint won't embarrass itself at 200m, especially with the 2MOA dot.
 
Re: Red Dot for AR10 308 TAC, need advice

Trijicon reflex!!
never need a battery!
always on,no need for shut off
very light
vario reticles from 4moa dot to chevron
 
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