So the teachers in Az decided they needed a 20% raise or their going to walk out? Pretty extreme but ok, we need good teachers and I supported it. The governor, god bless him, champions a way to get it done by working with our local legislature......and they walked anyway? This has become nothing more than a political ploy to produce a platform for the democrats to try and get a dem elected for our state governor and if I were in charge......they get nothing. This is a right to work state and they all signed a contractual agreement that does not facilitate a strike. The governor didn’t have to go to bat for them. They walked anyway and demanded more? They get nothing?
- Thread starter RNWRKNP
- Start date
fuck em.....fire em all and hire new teachers.
they can hire new teachers easier than they can all find new jobs......
fire them all, and hire them all back at a lower pay rate.
they can hire new teachers easier than they can all find new jobs......
fire them all, and hire them all back at a lower pay rate.
Yep. Been watching this. Kid is home from school right now due to the walk out. When they demanded 20% I thought they were nuts for that demand as AZ cannot afford that tax burden currently. I was even more shocked with the Governor agreed and jumped from his offered 1% pay raise to a 10% pay raise this year and an addition 10% raise the following year. The grand plan is that the money will come from taxation of all the people and businesses relocating to AZ in the next 2 years.
Then the teachers union walked away. They got exactly what they asked for, decided they would make this political, and walked out. Reminds me of Schumer and the dems and how they walked away from the DACA offer. I will say, watching the local news with that swarm of red shirted folks clustered around the capitol was impressive. They estimate 50,000. some news were saying 75,000. I wish to hell that kind of turn out would show up to protest infringements on the 2A when stupid laws are proposed.
Then the teachers union walked away. They got exactly what they asked for, decided they would make this political, and walked out. Reminds me of Schumer and the dems and how they walked away from the DACA offer. I will say, watching the local news with that swarm of red shirted folks clustered around the capitol was impressive. They estimate 50,000. some news were saying 75,000. I wish to hell that kind of turn out would show up to protest infringements on the 2A when stupid laws are proposed.
You can bet your ass there is some national money behind this with professional protestors? We are a HVT for the dem’s?
Can them. Hire new teachers a the 20% raise rate. Make the new teachers sign a non union agreement if they want to work. Teachers are the biggest bunch of crybabies. The get a years wage for 9 months work. They belong to a labor union like they are plumbers or electricians. Yet most teachers make less. Sounds like a shitty union anyhow.
I don't know enough on how the teachers unions are organized or how it is to be a teacher in AZ to comment intelligently. I do know the teachers are on the lower end of the pay scale nationally and the classrooms are stupidly overfilled. The growth here in the Phoenix valley is amazing. My kid's classes are 45-50 kids per classroom. Some less than adequate teachers here also. Not sure if they are burnt out and overwhelmed by the influx of so many new kids or if we are getting the bottom of the barrel on teachers because the pay is so low. I do know that I get to spend an hour or so each night playing math tutor to bring my kid up to speed on the subject because the individual assigned to teach them math is piss poor and makes no effort to teach the kids.
And yes, I concur that AZ is a HVT for the democrats. We have transitioned from a predominately red state to a purple state in the last 8 years. Hell, AZ was considered a swing state in the last election and I don't believe it has ever been considered a swing state previously.
And yes, I concur that AZ is a HVT for the democrats. We have transitioned from a predominately red state to a purple state in the last 8 years. Hell, AZ was considered a swing state in the last election and I don't believe it has ever been considered a swing state previously.
Hey folks, I had an idea and figured this collection of miscreants would be just the group to tear it (or me) apart.
When Obama Care (ACA) went into effect they created standards for Medical Loss Ratios (MLRs) that dictated that all health insurance plans had to have certain ranges of medical losses compared to revenues. In effect, they were capping your profit by requiring that you spend in the range of 85% to 87% on medical claims against the policy. Just keep that concept in mind for a minute.
In Arizona, we've approved additional taxes for education, 1/2 of the lottery was supposed to go to education, and everytime we turn around we hear how under funded our schools are and how we are at the bottom of what ever statistic is thrown out in the news. It's always 'the teachers are underpaid' and that's why we are turning out so many dumb shits into the workforce.
Every time we give the state more money, it always gets sidetracked and the teachers end up getting screwed.
If you look at any of our school districts, community colleges, and universities, way in excess of 50% of salaries go to non-teaching employees. WAY in excess.
I think they need to pass some sort of MLR for education. That way if you want to hire a university president for $600K/Year, or some school district Superintendent for $250K, it can only come from they non-MLR funds. If the teachers are the reason why we have so many morons in our midst, then this would seem to go a long way to eliminating the excuses.
Any feedback, good or bad?
Pete
When Obama Care (ACA) went into effect they created standards for Medical Loss Ratios (MLRs) that dictated that all health insurance plans had to have certain ranges of medical losses compared to revenues. In effect, they were capping your profit by requiring that you spend in the range of 85% to 87% on medical claims against the policy. Just keep that concept in mind for a minute.
In Arizona, we've approved additional taxes for education, 1/2 of the lottery was supposed to go to education, and everytime we turn around we hear how under funded our schools are and how we are at the bottom of what ever statistic is thrown out in the news. It's always 'the teachers are underpaid' and that's why we are turning out so many dumb shits into the workforce.
Every time we give the state more money, it always gets sidetracked and the teachers end up getting screwed.
If you look at any of our school districts, community colleges, and universities, way in excess of 50% of salaries go to non-teaching employees. WAY in excess.
I think they need to pass some sort of MLR for education. That way if you want to hire a university president for $600K/Year, or some school district Superintendent for $250K, it can only come from they non-MLR funds. If the teachers are the reason why we have so many morons in our midst, then this would seem to go a long way to eliminating the excuses.
Any feedback, good or bad?
Pete
Agreed! Some form of metric for accountability instead of everything ($) disappearing down the rabbit hole. The bottle neck at the top needs to be eliminated so that funds get where it’s supposed to go! Instead we get a shell game. This whole thing was a sham out of the gate!?
Lots and lots of ignorance in this thread. I will use this post as an example. If you think that teachers only work 9 months a year you are nuts. Just plain old fucking nuts. They are on a salary for sure but it is based on an hourly wage for 8 hours a day. Wife's contract is 7:45 to 3:45 everyday. We live 4 miles from her school and she leaves at 6:45 everyday and is never home before 5pm. The salary is based on 190 days. Not sure of my wifes hourly equivalent but lets say $25 an hour. 25x8x190= $38,000. That is then spread out over 12 payments. They do not get paid for 12 months of work. That might sound all great except she is required to take training during "the summer" to maintain her teaching license. Some of the training she must pay for out of pocket. In the end. She gets 3-4 weeks off in the summer. She has been teaching 15 years. Many jobs get 4 weeks vacation (normally after 10 years).
I notice a lot of motherfuckers (not just here) think teaching is some gravy job, yet I have never found one motherfucker willing to try it for even 1 day. The shit my wife deals with would boggle your mind. Hell i should start a thread.
Just like gun bans that sound good on paper this is a flawed idea. I was all for this at one time until I saw what my wife goes through.
So you would base my wifes pay, on how well a child that has crack heads for parents does. The problem is that those in charge believe EVERY CHILD can achieve genius status. This is the same as thinking everyone can run as fast as usain bolt. My wife has hax a child rise 6 levels in reading but still be 2 levels below normal and has been told she did nit do enough. Fuck that, the kid was 8 levels below to start the year. Everyone has different abilities. To think that everyone has the ability to be a neurosurgeon is just plain stupid.
They walk out they need to get fired. I was a prison guard for twenty years and now I work with sexually violent people at the mental hospital. I always made less than a teacher and never bitched about with I made. I took my ass to work and did my job.
This is all communist bullshit from Gorge Soros and his group.
Fire every last one and close the schools for until September. Lets see which ones want to work and shut their damn mouths and stop indoctrinating our kids.
This is all communist bullshit from Gorge Soros and his group.
Fire every last one and close the schools for until September. Lets see which ones want to work and shut their damn mouths and stop indoctrinating our kids.
If you base teacher pay on student performance..... every teacher is going to dumb down their classes so every student gets an A
Will be great for students until they get to college and realize they haven’t learned shit....... but then again.... they don’t learn shit anyways, hmmm......
Will be great for students until they get to college and realize they haven’t learned shit....... but then again.... they don’t learn shit anyways, hmmm......
Again I state. If teachers have it so fucking good why dont you try it.
Next as for the indoctrination. You know where that starts. That starts at home. My wife teaches elementary. There is no indoctrination going on there. In Jr high and High school yes there in an attempt. But parents allow it. When my daughter started Jr high i sat her down and had a talk with her. Told her shit she might hear/learn I told her to let me know if and when. Told her why and what we believe. She had a couple incidents but those were taken care of. Personally college has been a lot worse in that regard but now that she is an adult she goes to bat for herself. This is because my WIFE AND I rasied her and did NOT rely on outside forces to do so. If your child is "indoctrinated" that is on YOU.
You know that includes All benefits. Including health care, 401k/retirement, life insurance etc.. Do you count all of your benefits in your income? take home pay is what pays the bills.
Again total ignorance. much like people who want to ban "assault rifles". if you really think they make that much for only working 9 months a year then why have you not filled out a application yet?
https://www.utah.gov/transparency/app.html?govLevel=CITY&entityId=601&fiscalYear=2017&transType=3&title1=Cities+and+Towns:+2017:+Employee+Compensation&title2=Syracuse&title3=Cities+and+Towns:+Syracuse:+2017:+Employee+Compensation
After this comes up, click on police, then name, then look at Call, Lance (police Sargent). (he is a friend of mine) do you really think he makes $132,000 a year. click on his name it will break it down a little.
fire them
Not in my state. in fact here in my school district they only work 4 days a week Monday - Thursday. Good teachers are worth their weight in gold and should be paid well in my opinion. Just like every other gov entity, everyone is treated the same, then add in the unions. I come from 3 generations of teachers. Sorry no sympathy from me. You went to college and have a degree. You want to cow tow to a labor union? Go pull green chain.
Your wife sounds like she is worth 100K a year. School admin here gets paid 270k a year. They mismanage $$ and are not worth it. Add the Unions and its nothing but animosity. Our teachers here all have summer jobs, with the USFS and BLM or work on ranches.
I think you missed the part where I supported a raise for your wife and my further comments were aimed at upper management? I believe that your wife would agree that it’s bloated. If you asked your boss for a 20% raise and he gave it to you would you then continue on to insist on more? What would your reaction be? I think that you would have to admit that this thing got high jacked by the wrong side and turned it into something it was never supposed to be. I do not support this bullshit it has turned into and I think if your honest with yourself neither do you. The metric I mention would have been directed at upper management and have little to do with the teachers or kids and getting more money down to where the rubber hits the road. Good on you for defending your wife as I would mine.?
Some of our smaller community schools here in Southern Arizona are staying put, doing the job, and providing what is needed of them; i.e. serving the community.
Our school is staying open for one very practical reason. There is so much poverty down here on the Border that if the schools close, whole communities worth of children starve. Not would starve, not could starve; just starve, period. Without the breakfasts and lunches our school provides, many, some say most, of the families around here could not afford/manage to feed their kids.
Between the food pantries and schools, things would be worse, and they are already unacceptably bleak for far too many of our neighbors.
Our Community Center and our VFW (which includes VFW, VVA, American Legion, Elks, Combat Veterans Association, Legion Riders, and many private citizens working under the guise of 'invited guests') work constantly to provide some extent of a safety net for our neighbors. We feed the community with free meals three times a year. Cars end up parked all the way to as far as a block away on those days (Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving).
Every morsel cooked and served is donated, cooked, and served directly by Post members. Somebody has to do it, and we can; period. Uncle Sam pays a lot of us with Disability Pensions; and it's our pleasure to plow at least some of that back into our local community.
Funny how some folks think us VFW'ers are all just a bunch of suspicious looking/sounding smelly and unshaven old conservative curmudgeons who don't give a damn for the poor. ...And a lot of those poor are our other fellow Veterans.
Red for Ed? Those teachers DO need the raise, and they are also standing up for adequate funding for the infrastructure and operating costs. Education in Arizona has been sitting at the curb, waiting and watching while funding incrementation has essentially stayed stagnant for years. The smoke and mirrors here are A) the original cause of the problem, and B) the cover story that neglects to say where all the extra spending is going to come from. The line is that it will come from creative adjustments to the state budget, due out imminently, and no, not ever, will there be any more taxes.
Tell me another one. Two things will actually happen.
Peter will be robbed to pay Paul, and other essential state services will be strangled. Then, once the deficit has become astronomical; taxes will be increased. The pols will smile benevolently for the cameras and demand we thank them for saving us, and then would we please reelect them so they can do more of the same.
Bull Puckey! Don't be shooting the teachers for being the bearers of the genuinely bad news.
Greg
Our school is staying open for one very practical reason. There is so much poverty down here on the Border that if the schools close, whole communities worth of children starve. Not would starve, not could starve; just starve, period. Without the breakfasts and lunches our school provides, many, some say most, of the families around here could not afford/manage to feed their kids.
Between the food pantries and schools, things would be worse, and they are already unacceptably bleak for far too many of our neighbors.
Our Community Center and our VFW (which includes VFW, VVA, American Legion, Elks, Combat Veterans Association, Legion Riders, and many private citizens working under the guise of 'invited guests') work constantly to provide some extent of a safety net for our neighbors. We feed the community with free meals three times a year. Cars end up parked all the way to as far as a block away on those days (Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving).
Every morsel cooked and served is donated, cooked, and served directly by Post members. Somebody has to do it, and we can; period. Uncle Sam pays a lot of us with Disability Pensions; and it's our pleasure to plow at least some of that back into our local community.
Funny how some folks think us VFW'ers are all just a bunch of suspicious looking/sounding smelly and unshaven old conservative curmudgeons who don't give a damn for the poor. ...And a lot of those poor are our other fellow Veterans.
Red for Ed? Those teachers DO need the raise, and they are also standing up for adequate funding for the infrastructure and operating costs. Education in Arizona has been sitting at the curb, waiting and watching while funding incrementation has essentially stayed stagnant for years. The smoke and mirrors here are A) the original cause of the problem, and B) the cover story that neglects to say where all the extra spending is going to come from. The line is that it will come from creative adjustments to the state budget, due out imminently, and no, not ever, will there be any more taxes.
Tell me another one. Two things will actually happen.
Peter will be robbed to pay Paul, and other essential state services will be strangled. Then, once the deficit has become astronomical; taxes will be increased. The pols will smile benevolently for the cameras and demand we thank them for saving us, and then would we please reelect them so they can do more of the same.
Bull Puckey! Don't be shooting the teachers for being the bearers of the genuinely bad news.
Greg
Last edited:
Bottom line amigo........they got what they asked for and pulled the trigger anyway. They lost my support for the movement from then on. Good to hear that the ones in your area didn’t and I’m sure some didn’t get a choice. Good on you guys for helping in your community?Doesn’t change my mind for a second?
I dont live nor does my wife teach in some liberal shit hole. My wife starts EVERY DAY with the pledge of allegiance (as does the entire school). Again, parents have the largest influence on their children. If they do not they are doing it wrong.
Last edited:
I would agree as does my wife the administration above principle of a school is a huge amount of waste. I am defending the thankless job as well as my wife (mother was 5th grade teacher for 35 years also).
I feel that when an anti-gun person spouts anti-gun rhetoric it is from a place of ignorance.
Same goes with most discussions. Most do not educate themselves on a subject.
And oh hell yea first time i saw 20% i about choked. But i am sure it is a "aim high" kind of thing and 5-7% would shut them up.
When the economy took a shit 10 years ago the teachers union gave up all raises for 2 years. No cost of living or anything. That is was a "give". My wife will have to work 32 years to get her full retirement because of that. Now that the economy is smoking and property values are climbing like a rocket there ia no talk what so ever of making those 2 years up. The onky way that will happen is a strike I am sure.
We bitch about MSM giving false info. Remember they are not telling you how many times the union "gave" in negotiations. A strike is the only way to put pressure on the administration. Again educate yourself, especially if MSM is involved.
Step mom was a special needs teacher so I get it. I wouldn’t piss on MSM if they were puppies and on fire? Phoenix PD took a hair cut that I don’t think they have gotten back yet either and yet we are spending a shit ton of money on retard shit down town. My larger point is money going down the rabbit hole and not getting to folks like your wife where it matters. I supported the raise but not the way this shook out. Same same Phoenix PD who are way behind the curve on their attrition ratio let alone their pensions. A fish rots from the head and I think that’s where this thing gets fixed. Make the system more efficient from the top down. Seems to be a common problem nationally? props to your wife for the pledge of allegiance as I think that is cool as shit old school?
Just went through this bullshit in Oklahoma. Somehow, the teachers feel that giving them a raise wil make them teach more efficiently. Give them the raise, but if the numbers don't come up, can their ass. Continuing to throw money at an education problem won't fix it. I'm sorry they don't get paid what they think they are worth, but the majority knew that going into college. Their board are failing them, not the people.
Right. Teachers are the only professionals required to take yearly training and pay for it out of their own pocket! That she needs 2 months a year is total BS. If you abecome a teacher because you want to get rich or be upper class you’ve made a terrible mistake. Unfortunately the Union has destroyed any credibility they had. “A teacher is a teacher”, is utter horse shit. Some suck horribly, and we can’t get rid of them.
I’m sure your wife is a great teacher who works hard, but if she hates it as much as you seem to think she does she should do something else. Sorry.
No need for defensiveness. Of course, not all teachers are flaming liberals and not all schools are hell-bent on turning out little antifa zombies. But anyone that thinks there is NOT a varying degree of indoctrination from K thru 12 (even more in college), they have their head in the sand.
About half the country would say "forcing" little recite the POA is indoctrination.
Parents are indeed the answer.
This is fucking rich.
Sound much like a law enforcement officer telling folks "you haven't done the job, you don't understand"?
My daughter just started teaching. On day one, she is making nearly as much as I do as a 10 year LE at Sgt's pay.
First part is SOOOOOOO true. In Utah teachers have a 3 year probation period. Before 3 years are up they can be let go for really almost anything, but after that it takes an act of God almost. I do not support that, never said I did.
I never said my wife hated her job, I am the one who hates it. I see how hard she works for those kids and she gets very little appreciation for it. Quite the opposite in fact. 15 years and a masters degree she does okay. There is more to life than money.
Again I urge anyone to try it.
You need to step back for a minute and not take it so personal. I know quite a few really good teachers and it sounds like your wife is in that group. Your wife's group really, down deep, care for the kids they teach. They get their pleasures from seeing that little mind grow and flourish. I whole heartedly support her getting more than $38K a year.
But what I don't support is a system where there are no meaningful metrics to measure performance. I think your comment regarding 'what about kids with two crack head parents' is BS. That's not a personal attack, I just don't buy into the premise that this might be a situation therefore we can't use the child's progress as a measurement. I know too many kids that had bone headed parents that are brilliant.
You've done a good job of telling quite a few of us here why our ideas won't work. Now let's hear from you as to how you would solve the problem of teacher pay, and how do we weed out the poor performers. When I say poor performer, I'm using the 'reasonable man' perception where we all know this person shouldn't be a teacher but the system just won't let us get rid of him (or her)
I'm going to end this with stating again, your wife sounds like what we are looking for in a teacher.
Pete
public education is dead, time to privatize and take government out of it.
Army Jerry,
I agree. We created a monster when the Dept of Education was spawned. Every local school district in which I pay property taxes (that's how Arizona does it) is corrupt. Tucson Unified School District (TUSD) is border line criminal. Take it all private and have performance guarantees. Then we also need parents who own the upbringing of their children. No more dropping them off to 'day care' called school. Quit coming up with 'New Math' and 'Common Core' BS so parents can help their kids. If the parents need help because they are products of the past 60 years of progressive public education, then we need to address that.
Get rid of the teacher's unions and tenure. We've screwed ourselves by adjudicating education to the bureaucrats. It's time we take it back.
A little sarcasm here now, maybe. Going back to 2A's comments about his wife having to continue to take classes to keep her teacher's certification, how about we require the same for any degree. Can you imagine the crying rooms necessary for all the snowflakes when they realize that 'Basket Studies' degree expires... way before the student loans due?
Imagine of we took the billions spent on "undocumented immigrants" and put it towards education.(and a wall)
R
R
the whole "taking classes on their own dime" is part of a lot of jobs. I pay for continuing education out of my own pocket (it's required to keep my license) and write it off my taxes. Doctors and nurses do this as well, so no sympathy here. If the bottom line is money, then get out of the field. find a job that pays what you want. There are plenty of dirt work jobs that require very little skill and pay well. getting a pay raise won't have any effect on classes with too many kids who don't want to be there in the first place. We went through this shit here and even though the teachers got thier raise, funding for books and support staff wasn't met. How are they going to make the kids any smarter by getting a larger paycheck? Keep telling yourself that favorite mantra, but it's not really "for the kids."
Detain two to three dozen teenagers for forty minutes, uncuffed, get them to focus on you and listen so that they can repeat tomorrow something, anything that you said today, and then get back to me, Sarge. Oh, I forgot to mention that at least a third of them have juvenile records, one out of ten have been adjudicated into outside programs previously, and many of them are carrying blades or worse. And you do that five or six times a day, for at least 180 days per year.
You signed up for it. Quit bitching and do your job.Detain two to three dozen teenagers for forty minutes, uncuffed, get them to focus on you and listen so that they can repeat tomorrow something, anything that you said today, and then get back to me, Sarge. Oh, I forgot to mention that at least a third of them have juvenile records, one out of ten have been adjudicated into outside programs previously, and many of them are carrying blades or worse. And you do that five or six times a day, for at least 180 days per year.
One, nobody's bitching, other than about starting salaries in an occupation seen as less economically deserving than law enforcement, and two, I did my job, probably just about as thanklessly as you do yours.
3 month vacation every year, no matter ow bad of a job you do.
The low salary is largely a myth.
Are there poorly paid teachers?
Yes.
Are there teachers paid far more than their worth? again, yes.
Just as there are in ANY profession.
Very few professions offer so many paid holidays, Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, Spring break and summer vacation.
As I just pointed out, in my previous post, my daughter, in her first year of employment, makes far more than many municipal officers do that have been on the job for 5 years.
Try working 270 days a year for the same salary that you received for less than 200. Last I checked, teachers get the weekends off as well.
159 is required in CO. Our district has 165 day contracts of teachers. I think some of this is rooted in teachers being told how much less they make than other BA degrees. Its also in part because we hold these jobs ransom for a 50k education.
And none of you seem to understand just how much of that "free" time ideally gets taken up grading papers, planning lessons, and attending meetings, September through June. The summer holiday gets spent catching up on stuff that there wasn't time for between 7 AM and 10 PM back in the school year, unless you have to spend the summer working to make up for the less-than-charitable salary some districts offer. And then there's the rush to complete a BS Master's degree in two years in order to secure permanent certification in some states. Throw in non-expert "experts" questioning everything that you do and jealously viewing your salary as a waste of their tax dollars, and parents who either do nothing to monitor their children, or helicopter nervously outside your classroom door, ready to pounce and demand explanations whenever Jr. comes home with a B or worse.
Unions killed it. I had a public education in a great district, and we had terrible teachers they couldn’t get rid of. Even the kids knew who you did not want to get, and it wasn’t because they were strict, it was because they didn’t care and were terrible teachers. I have no problem paying high property taxes for excellence. I have a big problem paying to make education like the DMV. If teachers want respect and high pay then they need to rid themselves of all the dead weight they’re carrying. No one will or can police their own union, and it has become corrupt to the core, as these thing often become. There is a lot going on for the adults, and very little attention is paid to educating the kids, and sometimes when there is its agenda driven. What do you think Bill Ayers does?
Veer,
Just being a devils advocate.
Reread what you just posted.
Sound familiar to what happens on any of the dozens of pages, questioning LE actions?
No teacher should EVER have to pay for school supplies for students.
That is what parents are supposed to do.
If they don't have the money, and let's face it, some don't, then there should be a program that the parents sign up for to provide those supplies (and yes, they should have to provide some service as recompense)
I am acutely aware, but I am also aware the 7am to 10pm in not the norm.
165x14=2310
250x10=2500
I am also aware of great benefits, and guaranteed retirements. If the job did not pay enough, we would have a shortage of teachers. My mom has been s special education teacher for nearly 20 years now. That means she will draw about 80% of her salary when she retires. Some of my friends high school have about 10 years left before they can retire with their twenty in.
Similar threads
