I am shooting a 300 Win mag and was wondering what people thought of the Redding Body Die to bump the shoulder back. Does anyone use this? Do they like the shoulder bump feature? am I better off just getting the full length die and adjustting down? Thanks
- Thread starter WayneHS
- Start date
Re: Redding Body die
Depends on what you want to do. If you use the body die, the necks are un-touched. So you will have to size the neck in another step (need a neck die).
If you get a Redding Type S FL neck die, it will FL size the case, and neck size (to whatever bushing you want).
For my personal 300WM loads, I neck size only (fired brass) for my comp gun. It reduces wear above the belt from FL sizing. If the ammo will be fired in 1 rifle only, then neck size after you shoot it. You will need a body or FL die after 2-4 firings when it gets hard to chamber from neck sizing.
Depends on what you want to do. If you use the body die, the necks are un-touched. So you will have to size the neck in another step (need a neck die).
If you get a Redding Type S FL neck die, it will FL size the case, and neck size (to whatever bushing you want).
For my personal 300WM loads, I neck size only (fired brass) for my comp gun. It reduces wear above the belt from FL sizing. If the ammo will be fired in 1 rifle only, then neck size after you shoot it. You will need a body or FL die after 2-4 firings when it gets hard to chamber from neck sizing.
Re: Redding Body die
From reading your other post and questions, get a Redding Type S FL bushing die with a .333 or .334 bushing, and you'll be good. Even a standard FL die set will do you fine. This is the simplest and best problem-free solution.
If you want to neck size only after you fire them, get a set of Redding Type S neck only die with the body die. This way you can size the body of the case when needed, and still neck size. But the neck sizing is more complicated if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing.
From reading your other post and questions, get a Redding Type S FL bushing die with a .333 or .334 bushing, and you'll be good. Even a standard FL die set will do you fine. This is the simplest and best problem-free solution.
If you want to neck size only after you fire them, get a set of Redding Type S neck only die with the body die. This way you can size the body of the case when needed, and still neck size. But the neck sizing is more complicated if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing.
Re: Redding Body die
+1...
What Chad said. I haven't used any of my neck only dies in many years. I now full length size everything. But if I want to neck size I can do that with the same die.
+1...
What Chad said. I haven't used any of my neck only dies in many years. I now full length size everything. But if I want to neck size I can do that with the same die.
Re: Redding Body die
Better off?
This depends on what the goal is(are).
Longest case life: better off with body die and neck only die
best accuracy: better off with FL only die, but by less than most would imagine.
Better off?
This depends on what the goal is(are).
Longest case life: better off with body die and neck only die
best accuracy: better off with FL only die, but by less than most would imagine.
Re: Redding Body die
The reason I asked the question is because another article I read in here mentioned the possibility of the case continuing to expand as you neck size increasing case volume and therefore increasing case volume which will affect velocity. Do you guys think this is applicable to the 300 Win? Thanks for your input
The reason I asked the question is because another article I read in here mentioned the possibility of the case continuing to expand as you neck size increasing case volume and therefore increasing case volume which will affect velocity. Do you guys think this is applicable to the 300 Win? Thanks for your input
Re: Redding Body die
It can make a difference from FL sized to neck sized brass. But once you neck size the case and work up a good load, it will stay the same. The internal capacity won't change enough to make any difference in the load after each neck sizing.
It can make a difference from FL sized to neck sized brass. But once you neck size the case and work up a good load, it will stay the same. The internal capacity won't change enough to make any difference in the load after each neck sizing.
Re: Redding Body die
Help me out here. I was always under the impression that unless you had a custom made FL die made to one of your fire formed cases that neck sizing was the "better" way to go because it didn't resize the case like a FL die does and unless you had a custom made FL die you were resizing your case to something slightly different than your specific chamber.
Does that make any sense???
Help me out here. I was always under the impression that unless you had a custom made FL die made to one of your fire formed cases that neck sizing was the "better" way to go because it didn't resize the case like a FL die does and unless you had a custom made FL die you were resizing your case to something slightly different than your specific chamber.
Does that make any sense???
Re: Redding Body die
Get a FL S die and pull the bushing and use it for a body die.
Get a FL S die and pull the bushing and use it for a body die.
Re: Redding Body die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me out here. I was always under the impression that unless you had a custom made FL die made to one of your fire formed cases that neck sizing was the "better" way to go because it didn't resize the case like a FL die does and unless you had a custom made FL die you were resizing your case to something slightly different than your specific chamber.
Does that make any sense??? </div></div>
I guess we need to define "better". When you FL size, you get the reliability of each round chambering each time. It does work the brass more, especially above the belt. It also brings the case back to spec.
When you neck size, it already fits your chamber and just needs enough tension to hold a bullet. But after a few firings, you will notice the rounds start to chamber very tight, and some not even chamber. It does work the brass less, but you lose the 100% reliability in chambering for each round. When I neck size, I run the loaded rounds through my gun to make sure they chamber. Any that chamber too tight or not at all do not get used and the bullet is pulled, and brass is set aside to be FL sized.
So in a match or situation where you need 100% reliability, FL sizing will normally be "better". But if you take the time to do the neck sizing properly and know what problems to look for and/or avoid, then neck sizing is "better".
Also, in most belted cases, (for 1 given rifle) I will neck size. For non-belted cases (308, 260, etc), I will FL size.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me out here. I was always under the impression that unless you had a custom made FL die made to one of your fire formed cases that neck sizing was the "better" way to go because it didn't resize the case like a FL die does and unless you had a custom made FL die you were resizing your case to something slightly different than your specific chamber.
Does that make any sense??? </div></div>
I guess we need to define "better". When you FL size, you get the reliability of each round chambering each time. It does work the brass more, especially above the belt. It also brings the case back to spec.
When you neck size, it already fits your chamber and just needs enough tension to hold a bullet. But after a few firings, you will notice the rounds start to chamber very tight, and some not even chamber. It does work the brass less, but you lose the 100% reliability in chambering for each round. When I neck size, I run the loaded rounds through my gun to make sure they chamber. Any that chamber too tight or not at all do not get used and the bullet is pulled, and brass is set aside to be FL sized.
So in a match or situation where you need 100% reliability, FL sizing will normally be "better". But if you take the time to do the neck sizing properly and know what problems to look for and/or avoid, then neck sizing is "better".
Also, in most belted cases, (for 1 given rifle) I will neck size. For non-belted cases (308, 260, etc), I will FL size.
Re: Redding Body die
Thank you for that explaination.
Do you neck size your belted cases because after they have been fired in that particular chamber they now head space off of the shoulder not the belt and if you were to FL size they wouldn't??? True, not true or should I just shut the hell up? I'm good with any of the above. lol
Thank you for that explaination.
Do you neck size your belted cases because after they have been fired in that particular chamber they now head space off of the shoulder not the belt and if you were to FL size they wouldn't??? True, not true or should I just shut the hell up? I'm good with any of the above. lol
Re: Redding Body die
I've come to the conclusion that my ammo is better (more concentric, cases last longer) when I use a Lee Collet Neck die most of the time and add a body die when I need to "FL" size.
I don't think it's true that neck sizing is much, if any, more "accurate" in factory rifles but my cases do tend to last a tad longer. And I also neck anneal from time to time, that lets my worker over cases last a LOT longer!
Any reloader who strives to headspace off a belt or rim is missing a lot of the potential advantage of handloading. Make the shoulders fit as snugly as possible and stick with that.
I've come to the conclusion that my ammo is better (more concentric, cases last longer) when I use a Lee Collet Neck die most of the time and add a body die when I need to "FL" size.
I don't think it's true that neck sizing is much, if any, more "accurate" in factory rifles but my cases do tend to last a tad longer. And I also neck anneal from time to time, that lets my worker over cases last a LOT longer!
Any reloader who strives to headspace off a belt or rim is missing a lot of the potential advantage of handloading. Make the shoulders fit as snugly as possible and stick with that.
Re: Redding Body die
I use the body aka "bump" die on my 338 Lapua and love it.
I use the body aka "bump" die on my 338 Lapua and love it.
Re: Redding Body die
I full length size EVERYTHING just enough. I neck sized for several years. I got tired of keeping up with how many cycles this batch had been fired and having several jams on the firing line during a match. So now I set the dies to a particular rifle and full length size everything.
I full length size EVERYTHING just enough. I neck sized for several years. I got tired of keeping up with how many cycles this batch had been fired and having several jams on the firing line during a match. So now I set the dies to a particular rifle and full length size everything.
Re: Redding Body die
I neck size my 300WM cases so they will last longer. I stopped counting how many reloads I am on now, but it's over 5 or 6. I can't keep track of all the batches of Nosler 300WM brass I run. When I trim and anneal, I do them all together, so they all get the same treatment.
Victor said it best- FL sizing makes things much less complicated.
I neck size my 300WM cases so they will last longer. I stopped counting how many reloads I am on now, but it's over 5 or 6. I can't keep track of all the batches of Nosler 300WM brass I run. When I trim and anneal, I do them all together, so they all get the same treatment.
Victor said it best- FL sizing makes things much less complicated.
Re: Redding Body die
But is it true that when you FL size a belted case it will no longer headspace off the shoulder like it did before being FL resized? Or does it all depend on how you have your FL die setup?
This is an area I have always been unsure. I would much appreciate any and all further details.
But is it true that when you FL size a belted case it will no longer headspace off the shoulder like it did before being FL resized? Or does it all depend on how you have your FL die setup?
This is an area I have always been unsure. I would much appreciate any and all further details.
Re: Redding Body die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me out here. I was always under the impression that unless you had a custom made FL die made to one of your fire formed cases that neck sizing was the "better" way to go because it didn't resize the case like a FL die does and unless you had a custom made FL die you were resizing your case to something slightly different than your specific chamber.
Does that make any sense??? </div></div>
There are a raft of arguments on both sides, and the conclusion is dependent of the intended use and other typically non-stated goals and asperations.
For very excellent shooters in competition, FL sizing wins more often
For pretty tollerable shooters outside of competition, it maters little
For shooters not down the learning curve, it maters not one iota
For real tactical applications, it maters not
For benchrest shooting, it can be the difference between winning and loosing
For REAL benchrest shooting, fitted cases are often used--these aren't even ever sized
For bragging rights, FL sizing can usually win
For "hey that's a really good group", its back to "it really doesn't mater"
For longest brass life, NO sizing wins big (about 3X, 25 reloads w/o annealing, 50+ with)
For fun of working with the tools and reloading gear, NO wins
For the most part, the bullet choice is more important than how the case is sized.
For the most part, the precision to which the load development was carried is more important than how the case was sized.
For the most part, the precision to which the charge is metered and trickled is more important than how the case was sized.
For the most part, the repeatability of the cartrige assembly is more important than how the case was sized.
For the most part, the accuracy of the shooter is more important than how the case was sized.
But once you get all these other ducks in a row, how the case gets sized does show up.
{Flame away}
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me out here. I was always under the impression that unless you had a custom made FL die made to one of your fire formed cases that neck sizing was the "better" way to go because it didn't resize the case like a FL die does and unless you had a custom made FL die you were resizing your case to something slightly different than your specific chamber.
Does that make any sense??? </div></div>
There are a raft of arguments on both sides, and the conclusion is dependent of the intended use and other typically non-stated goals and asperations.
For very excellent shooters in competition, FL sizing wins more often
For pretty tollerable shooters outside of competition, it maters little
For shooters not down the learning curve, it maters not one iota
For real tactical applications, it maters not
For benchrest shooting, it can be the difference between winning and loosing
For REAL benchrest shooting, fitted cases are often used--these aren't even ever sized
For bragging rights, FL sizing can usually win
For "hey that's a really good group", its back to "it really doesn't mater"
For longest brass life, NO sizing wins big (about 3X, 25 reloads w/o annealing, 50+ with)
For fun of working with the tools and reloading gear, NO wins
For the most part, the bullet choice is more important than how the case is sized.
For the most part, the precision to which the load development was carried is more important than how the case was sized.
For the most part, the precision to which the charge is metered and trickled is more important than how the case was sized.
For the most part, the repeatability of the cartrige assembly is more important than how the case was sized.
For the most part, the accuracy of the shooter is more important than how the case was sized.
But once you get all these other ducks in a row, how the case gets sized does show up.
{Flame away}
Re: Redding Body die
For the most concentric bullets I can get, I use a Redding body die if the shoulder needs bumped back.. and a Lee Collet Die to neck size it..
sure it takes multiple steps, but when looking for the most accurate ammo... what is an extra step of two..
For the most concentric bullets I can get, I use a Redding body die if the shoulder needs bumped back.. and a Lee Collet Die to neck size it..
sure it takes multiple steps, but when looking for the most accurate ammo... what is an extra step of two..
Re: Redding Body die
Great response Mitch. It kinda of put things in REAL perspective. When you guys fireform factory new brass do you even bother FL sizing it, or just neck it to hold a bullet (assuming it chambers of course)? Thanks
Great response Mitch. It kinda of put things in REAL perspective. When you guys fireform factory new brass do you even bother FL sizing it, or just neck it to hold a bullet (assuming it chambers of course)? Thanks
Re: Redding Body die
"But is it true that when you FL size a belted case it will no longer headspace off the shoulder like it did before being FL resized?"
It really doesn't matter how we define it; "headspace" is where the cartridge fits in a chamber. If a case won't fit, size it a bit more. If it's a rattle fit, size it a bit less.
"But is it true that when you FL size a belted case it will no longer headspace off the shoulder like it did before being FL resized?"
It really doesn't matter how we define it; "headspace" is where the cartridge fits in a chamber. If a case won't fit, size it a bit more. If it's a rattle fit, size it a bit less.
Re: Redding Body die
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But is it true that when you FL size a belted case it will no longer headspace off the shoulder like it did before being FL resized?</div></div>
Belted cases are, by definition, headspaced on the belt. But the clearance from the sholder on the case to the sholder in the chamber remains almost as critical to accuracy as it does in non-belted cases.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But is it true that when you FL size a belted case it will no longer headspace off the shoulder like it did before being FL resized?</div></div>
Belted cases are, by definition, headspaced on the belt. But the clearance from the sholder on the case to the sholder in the chamber remains almost as critical to accuracy as it does in non-belted cases.
Re: Redding Body die
And this is exactly why I ask the question/s about FL sizing.
As I understand it, a fired belted case is now, using my words, custom fit to that chamber where as if you take that same fired case and FL size it it will no longer be custom fit to the chamber but it is now custom fit to the FL die and when you chamber that loaded round it will go back to headspacing off the belt not the shoulder. Yes????
I'm a little thick in the head so bare with me and my slow learning curve but I really want to make sure I understand this correctly.
And this is exactly why I ask the question/s about FL sizing.
As I understand it, a fired belted case is now, using my words, custom fit to that chamber where as if you take that same fired case and FL size it it will no longer be custom fit to the chamber but it is now custom fit to the FL die and when you chamber that loaded round it will go back to headspacing off the belt not the shoulder. Yes????
I'm a little thick in the head so bare with me and my slow learning curve but I really want to make sure I understand this correctly.
Re: Redding Body die
As long as you don't FL size it down very much (only .002-.003) shoulder bump it will still match chamber very closely. The main reason to FL size is to make the round easier to cycle/chamber which is important if you're competing. If you want to keep the the custom fit fired case as you put it, neck sizing is a good way to go. There will be a point in time where you might have to FL size anyway just to get it to chamber after multiple firings. Keep in mind when you bump the shoulder back .002 or so that's REALLY not much at all.
As long as you don't FL size it down very much (only .002-.003) shoulder bump it will still match chamber very closely. The main reason to FL size is to make the round easier to cycle/chamber which is important if you're competing. If you want to keep the the custom fit fired case as you put it, neck sizing is a good way to go. There will be a point in time where you might have to FL size anyway just to get it to chamber after multiple firings. Keep in mind when you bump the shoulder back .002 or so that's REALLY not much at all.
