Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

[cgv69]

Getting ready to order a 223 die set to go with a new press in order to begin my journey into reloading. My first loads will be an attempt at loading precision 223 rounds for my Remmy 5R. I am brand new to reloading and I’m new to precision rifles in general too and don’t ever expect to be a competition level shooter. So with that said, should I order the standard Redding 2 piece die set for .223 or their “Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set”?

The upgrade to the match set will set me back about another $80 and is described as …
“The Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set maintains exact control of the case neck while full length sizing and uses the same interchangeable bushings (.001" increments) as those used in other Redding Bushing Style Neck Sizing Dies. Includes the Type S Bushing Full Sizing Die and the Competition Seating Die.” And the “Competition Seating Die” is described as…

“The patented design has solved the concentricity problems inherent in other seating dies of this type. Tighter manufacturing tolerances have been made possible due to the details of the patented seating stem system. The bullet guide to seating stem fit is so precise that the seating stem can actually be demonstrated to "float" on a column of air. The seating stem is precision ground to exactly match bullet diameter. Alignment and accuracy are enhanced by the cartridge case and bullet being completely supported and aligned in a close fitting, precision ground sleeve before bullet seating begins. The micrometer is calibrated in 0.001" increments for precise seating depth and is infinitely adjustable (without clicks). Also has a "zero set" feature that allows you to zero the micrometer to your rifle or favorite seating depth.”

So being new, I don’t know how much of all that is real and how much of it is marketing BS? Assuming the improvements are real, are they significant enough to justify the added expense ($80) especially for a rookie reloader\plinker like me? How hard are they to setup (as opposed to a standard die set)? I don’t mind spending the extra money up front if they are actually worth the premium and is something I will probably end up wanting later anyway. I believe in buying once, crying once but I don’t like wasting money either. I don’t want to spend 250% more for a die set that is only going to be marginally better then the standard dies?

 

[johngfoster]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

I would recommend at least the competition seater die. It will keep the bullet straighter when seating, and reduce runout. It is also easier to adjust seating depth.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

I also agree on the Match series. I ordered dies at the same time for my .308 bolt gun and my .223 precision AR. I ended up just getting the neck only die with a seperate body die for the .308 since it was only going to be used in a bolt gun. But I got the comp FL resizer die for the .223 since it will be used in an autoloader. That way it gets me the FL body sizing as well as being able to control the neck tension more closely all in one step for the .223.

If you're only shooting .223 in the 5R, look at getting the seperate neck bushing die and body die as the bolt gun doesn't necessarly need to be FL resized every time. Although there seem to be two distinctive schools of thought on that subject and I'm not sure which one has more validity.

I'm really happy with my Redding S-type match dies so far and glad I spent the extra coin. If you go with the basic set, you'll always be wondering "what if"....

 

[Sig685]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

I'll go along with Johngfoster on this one. The seating dies is really the one that you can use right away and it does make things easier for a beginner.

I totally disagree with your statement: "I am brand new to reloading and I’m new to precision rifles in general too and don’t ever expect to be a competition level shooter."

Why the heck not? What kind of funky new-age goal setting is this? Of course you should expect to become a competition level shooter!

But seriously get the regular F/L sizing die for now, it will handle whatever brass you use and as you get more knowledge and experience, you can seperate your brass and then get into bushing dies. Don't bother with neck-sizing and body dies.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

Shooting from a magazine, you may not need the micrometer seating die. Forster uses the same design in their seating dies as the Redding Match seater (actually, Redding may have borrowed the design from Forster). Forster's standard sizing die is a better design than others. You may want to consider a Forster set. Many bucks saved over Redding Match and comparable quality.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

I have the Type-S in 223 and the competition set in 308.

I recommend spending the money for the competition set if you expect to run experiments in the load development process. The micrometers take the pain and guess work out of partial neck sizing experiments, and bullet depth seating experiments. The sliding sleve makes getting concentricty easier (not easy, just easier).

 

[tfsron]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

I like Redding dies, I believe they are the best made and I want a complete set of Redding's best for everything I reload, however with finances being what they are:

1. I look for one of the Forster seaters because they use the same floating sleeve found in Redding's Competition seater, but are a lot cheaper. Forester has two seaters, one with and one without the micrometer dial. Both produce the same quality cartridge and are priced accordingly.

2. I really like bushing dies as they save on working the brass and dragging a expander ball through the neck. However you must have control over your neck thickness to get much benefit from them. Standard dies are designed to work in the wide limits of standard brass.

3. You can use a full length die to neck size your brass. Run the brass in just far enough to leave a small ring in the neck unsized at the neck-shoulder junction. This will center the bullet going into the lands which can be a big help in accuracy. Just make sure the brass will chamber ok; if you have to force it-full length resize.

If you don't already have a Digital calliper, I would consider that a priority purchase as you will use it repeatedly every time you reload.
I have posted a link so you can see what I am talking about. You will notice that the link is from Sinclair's; they are not the cheapest, but their customer service is so good they can save you enough money by telling you what not to buy that they become the cheapest place to trade. There is a lot of expensive equipment out there that looks really good, but won't do what you need to do and will not work well for you. I bought a lot from Sinclair's when I was starting out reloading and I can't say enough good about them.

If you know exactly what you need, look around on the net until you find a bargain. I do that a lot and when I get a "bargain" I am often reminded: Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.

Link:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/8962/s

Also as a companion to load manuals, not a substitute, the best book I have found on precision reloading:

Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Shooting-Reloading-Guide-Brennan/dp/1931220123

Good shooting!
Ron

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron Morrison</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will notice that the link is from Sinclair's; they are not the cheapest, but their customer service is so good they can save you enough money by telling you what not to buy that they become the cheapest place to trade. There is a lot of expensive equipment out there that looks really good, but won't do what you need to do and will not work well for you. I bought a lot from Sinclair's when I was starting out reloading, and I can't say enough good about them.</div></div>

A smart man!

 

[cgv69]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

Thanks for the all the input guys. I think I'm going to get the standard die set (which is only $27 w/shellholder if I order it with the press) and then order the Comp Seat die. I checked and the the total of all that comes to $223! Considering I'm buying all of this to reload 223 then I take that as a sign!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I totally disagree with your statement: "I am brand new to reloading and I’m new to precision rifles in general too and don’t ever expect to be a competition level shooter."

Why the heck not? What kind of funky new-age goal setting is this? Of course you should expect to become a competition level shooter!</div></div>
LOL - Nope, not a funky new age goal, more like old fashion reality! There are no precision rifle matches in this area and even if there were, I don't have the time or interest in doing them.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cgv69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don’t want to spend 250% more for a die set that is only going to be marginally better then the standard dies? </div></div>

It is easy to lose our perspective on all this because we do have so many choices. I loaded sub-moa ammo for years with standard RCBS dies on their cheapest single-stage press.

I've since moved on to other dies, but only because they work the necks less, not necessarily because they're more accurate. I still use my RCBS seater and routinely get between .0005" and .0015" runout (yes, I spin them 180 deg., old habit, but it seems to work)

Are there more convenient tools out there? Yes. Repeatable? Probably. Necessary? Personal decision. It's only money.

John

 

[sv_1]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

I have the Forster set with the mic seating die and really like them. I have the fl sizer set to not size the whole neck as an earlier poster mentioned and it seems to work really well.

Another invaluable tool to go along with them is something to measure where your bullet is in relation to the lands. Like the stony point(?) or rcbs precision mic.

What bullets are you planning on using ?

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've since moved on to other dies, but only because they work the necks less, not necessarily because they're more accurate. I still use my RCBS seater and routinely get between .0005" and .0015" runout (yes, I spin them 180 deg., old habit, but it seems to work)

</div></div>
I have a dumb Q: What is runout?

 

[jrob300]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a dumb Q: What is runout? </div></div>

Now opened a can of worms didn't I?

Runout is the deviation, in this case in inches, of any part of a cylinder with relation to it's center. It may still be perfectly round but not on the same center.

Runout is of concern to us in a couple of different places. Runout of the neck with relation to the body, caused by neck or fl seating dies, and runout of the bullet with relation to the body, caused by seater dies. The thinking being that excessive runout (typically >.002" for precision ammo) can cause the bullet to enter the throat at an angle which is not conducive to maximum accuracy.

John

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Redding standard die set vs. match die set?

cgv69,

For what it's worth, this is what I use: FORSTER 223 REM FL SIZER & ULTRA SEATER SET. I combine it with a standard Redding Neck sizer die. That combo will do all you need to do, with a bolt action 223.

Bob