Reloading 6.5CM For Gasser, Need Help

[MNtadpole]

Hey All,

So I'm still continue the process of load development for my Daniel Defense DD5v5 in 6.5CM. So today I went to the range trying to shoot up a.2 gain incrementing ladder trying to find a velocity node while using a chrono. Due to running low on time before the range closed, I decided the shoot the top half of my ladder first. This isn't my first ladder with this powder, so I knew ahead of time what my limits were from the previous firings. With that being said, I experienced many loose primers. Most of my rounds were dropping primers during the chambering process. This Hornady brass was on its 3rd firing only. I feel like I should be getting more firings out of this brass prior to the expansion of the primer pockets. I'm fairly new to reloading and I guess the loose pockets were overly obvious to me while seating the primers. I was hoping that maybe someone to shed some light on what's going on with these primer pockets getting too loose on the 3rd firing.

Load:
Brass: Hornady
Bullet: SMK 140gr
Bullet Seated: 0.030" from lands jam
Powder: H4350
Load Ladder: 39.8gr-41.6gr. increases .2 grains for 10 step ladder.
Primer Winchester Large Rifle
COAL: 2.8"
Crimp: soft crimp applied due to not enough neck tension for semi-auto action.

All brass is annealed after each

Here's What I know:

1. After the cartridge chambers, some of the bullets have been measure to be moving 0.006" This is even with the light crimp.

2. Prior firings of this brass had velocities between 2672-2714fps.

Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sleeplz]

Choose different primers or brass. Make sure its seated evenly into pocket.

 

[Kadams1563]

It’s a combination of things IMO. I had the exact same issue with the same components.

WLP must run small and Hornady brass is junk. I was having primers fall out in the magazine and when running the bolt OT would cause a shit show. I thing like trying to clean a live primer and powder out of your action while in the range.

 

[MNtadpole]

It’s a combination of things IMO. I had the exact same issue with the same components.

WLP must run small and Hornady brass is junk. I was having primers fall out in the magazine and when running the bolt OT would cause a shit show. I thing like trying to clean a live primer and powder out of your action while in the range.

So what was the solution that you found? What new combination did you use? I currently have some Federal LR, CCI-BR, and CCI-200 primers that I could experiment with. What are your thoughts on switching from large primer pocket brass to small primer pocket brass? I do have some CCI small rifle magnums too. Like I said, I'm fairly new to the reloading game, but since my velocities never really went beyond 2720 fps, I'm lead to believe that there should be remaining cartridge pressure clearances. I think some people are pushing 2900 fps with some bolt guns.

 

[MNtadpole]

Choose different primers or brass. Make sure its seated evenly into pocket.

Well I know during the most recent reloading of this brass the primer pockets didn't give much resistance while seating the primers. At the time, I thought I might have been mistaken, but the results of the firings support that. It's unfortunate that the Hornady brass isn't seeming to be as forgiving as I might have hoped, especially since I just bought like 250 pieces in bulk. SMH. Part of me is wanting to experiment with some brass with small rifle primer pockets.

 

[Kadams1563]

My solution? Sold every piece of Hornady brass I had and bought Lapua. Then got CCI 450’s and never looked back.

I ram my 6.5 creed at 2820-2830 with a 140. I felt like I was pushing it pretty hard. If I still loaded for the creed I would slow it down to 2750 and see what node was closest to there.

I am a fan of small rifle primers. I never have to change any of my presses over to large and back to small.

 

[MNtadpole]

My solution? Sold every piece of Hornady brass I had and bought Lapua. Then got CCI 450’s and never looked back.

I ram my 6.5 creed at 2820-2830 with a 140. I felt like I was pushing it pretty hard. If I still loaded for the creed I would slow it down to 2750 and see what node was closest to there.

I am a fan of small rifle primers. I never have to change any of my presses over to large and back to small.

Roger that! I guess I will be ordering a couple hundred Lapua. Like I said before, I luckily have 1k of those CCI-450s so I have materials to experiment with. So when you did load for the CM about how many reloads were you able to get with the Lapua and CCI-450 combo? Were these loads for a gasser or a bolt action?

 

[FCS]

Hornady brass when loaded “properly” will give you multiple firings in a gas gun before losing pocket.
Buffer weight, buffer spring K used?

I’d be jumping 140 SMK@ least 40 thousands and 60 wouldn’t hurt you any.
OAL (bullet tip to case head) when 0.030” off lands?

I’ll add more later, posting via phone when lots of typing required is no bueno.

 

[Kadams1563]

Roger that! I guess I will be ordering a couple hundred Lapua. Like I said before, I luckily have 1k of those CCI-450s so I have materials to experiment with. So when you did load for the CM about how many reloads were you able to get with the Lapua and CCI-450 combo? Were these loads for a gasser or a bolt action?

I only did bolt action so maybe listen to tiger people before you go out and spend money lol. I loaded the same pieces of brass and had about 1500 rounds between about 300 pieces. I stopped shooting 6.5.

so it was my first reloading for precision rifle and I wasn’t every coordinated. So I had 100 pieces with 7 firings then opened a new box. I had a few reloads on that brass before I started mixing them up lol. Eventually I just opened up enough boxes where I had 300 pieces and mixed them all up. I never could tell a difference and they were still tight primer pockets. I still have 150 pieces or so and they are ready to load but I went to 6GT.

Lapua brass is much higher quality (much more expensive too) and it’s much heavier. My Hornady brass experience was not good at all in the 6.5 creed but others seem to like it.

again I was bolt action only so I don’t know about Lapua in a semi auto. Semi autos are rough in brass and I’d be stressing out about my Lapua all the time hahah.

 

[FCS]

So what was the solution that you found? What new combination did you use? I currently have some Federal LR, CCI-BR, and CCI-200 primers that I could experiment with. What are your thoughts on switching from large primer pocket brass to small primer pocket brass? I do have some CCI small rifle magnums too. Like I said, I'm fairly new to the reloading game, but since my velocities never really went beyond 2720 fps, I'm lead to believe that there should be remaining cartridge pressure clearances. I think some people are pushing 2900 fps with some bolt guns.

140SMKs from a gas gun (20” bbl?), 2650 is more realistic unless you’ve made some adjustments to factory rifle.

140 hybrids (less bearing surface than 140 SMK), different ogive profile so longer OAL, bullet not as deep in case and from a 26” bbl you can get 2800/2800+ fps.

Gas guns are not bolt guns, trying to get bolt gun performance from your shorter barreled gas gun is why pockets are opening up quickly.

 

[MNtadpole]

Hornady brass when loaded “properly” will give you multiple firings in a gas gun before losing pocket.
Buffer weight, buffer spring K used?

I’d be jumping 140 SMK@ least 40 thousands and 60 wouldn’t hurt you any.
OAL (bullet tip to case head) when 0.030” off lands?

I’ll add more later, posting via phone when lots of typing required is no bueno.

I'm shooting these rounds through the Daniel Defense DD5v5 in 6.5CM. I'm trying to research what the buffer and springs are, that are factory installed. All I can find is that the buffer is "weighted". I can weigh it if that helps to determine what it is. The spring is being described as a "7.62 spring", I believe. https://danieldefense.com/dd5-critical-components-kit.html The COAL with the bullet being seated 0.030" of the lands is 2.80"

I appreciate your feedback!

 

[MNtadpole]

140SMKs from a gas gun (20” bbl?), 2650 is more realistic unless you’ve made some adjustments to factory rifle.

140 hybrids (less bearing surface than 140 SMK), different ogive profile so longer OAL, bullet not as deep in case and from a 26” bbl you can get 2800/2800+ fps.

Gas guns are not bolt guns, trying to get bolt gun performance from your shorter barreled gas gun is why pockets are opening up quickly.

Yes, the gasser has a 20" barrel. I haven't messed with anything on this factory rifle. During yesterday's range day, I was curious enough to chrono both Hornady's Match 6.5CM and Hornady 6.5CM American Gunner. Hornady Match came in at an average of 2574fps while the American Gunner came in at an average of 2622fps. I figured that Hornady produces these rounds to have decent performance for the masses...and might serve as a "baseline" for a more realistic velocity to stick to.

 

[Kadams1563]

Dang that is slow compared to a 26” bolt gun barrel.

he’s right pushing them that fast is what’s ruining primer pockets so fast.

You might be able to load a little fast but 150fps faster is a lot.

 

[FCS]

2650 w/140 SMK from 20” gas gun is all you can expect, IMHO.
Find load that shoots best @ 2650 or BELOW. I’m going to guesstimate you’ll be 2600 +25 /- 50 fps when you find happy spot.
Test @ 200

2.800” OAL is 0.030” of lands?

Usually I see 2.780” for touching lands in SAAMI 6.5 Creed chamber w/140 SMK (1740). Ogive profile of 140 isn’t as long as 142 SMK, Berger 140 VLD, etc.

Little surprised that 2.800” OAL is 0.030” OFF lands.

 

[MNtadpole]

2650 w/140 SMK from 20” gas gun is all you can expect, IMHO.
Find load that shoots best @ 2650 or BELOW. I’m going to guesstimate you’ll be 2600 +25 /- 50 fps when you find happy spot.
Test @ 200

2.800” OAL is 0.030” of lands?

Usually I see 2.780” for touching lands in SAAMI 6.5 Creed chamber w/140 SMK (1740). Ogive profile of 140 isn’t as long as 142 SMK, Berger 140 VLD, etc.

Little surprised that 2.800” OAL is 0.030” OFF lands.

Well I will recheck my bullet jam measurements later tonight. At this moment, my records measured CBTO of 2.307" as the jam point. As I was seating my bullets 0.030" from jam, they measured 2.277".

CBTO:

COAL:

Again, I will go ahead and re-take some measurements to establish average jam on the lands for the 140gr SMK.

 

[MNtadpole]

2650 w/140 SMK from 20” gas gun is all you can expect, IMHO.
Find load that shoots best @ 2650 or BELOW. I’m going to guesstimate you’ll be 2600 +25 /- 50 fps when you find happy spot.
Test @ 200

2.800” OAL is 0.030” of lands?

Usually I see 2.780” for touching lands in SAAMI 6.5 Creed chamber w/140 SMK (1740). Ogive profile of 140 isn’t as long as 142 SMK, Berger 140 VLD, etc.

Little surprised that 2.800” OAL is 0.030” OFF lands.

So I went ahead and quickly verified the jam and it was right around 2.30" CBTO. I took a peek using a bore scope as well, since its kinda new, and I was able to see the bullet remain lodged while extracting the OAL case attached to the case gauge.