Reloading - cost of entry

[Woolsocks]

Can’t seem to find a factory hunting load that my 300 prc likes. How much would it cost me to get into reloading (from scratch) instead? I have once-fired brass. Need everything else, including some variations of loads to see what works.

For those who want more info, I’ve tried hornady’s 3 variations of 300 prc. It shoots 1/2MOA with match ammo. Throws the other two varieties all over the place. I need something I can hunt with, so just shooting eld-m does me no good. Berger ammo might work, but I’m starting to wonder if I could just buy reloading supplies cheaper than backordered $80/box Bergers..

I don’t shoot competition, so I don’t need to mass-produce ammo. I do shoot enough to to be confident taking down an elk at 1000 yards. Might go through 100-200 rounds a year.

 

[pmclaine]

Taking down an Elk at 1000 yards.

Interesting.

This should be all you need….

 

[secondofangle2]

It’s not the cost of entry - it’s the cost upon exit.

Because you accumulate so so much gear along the way.

If your gun doesn’t shoot but one factory load, it may be cheaper in the long run to replace the gun than to start reloading

 

[Woolsocks]

Taking down an Elk at 1000 yards.

Interesting.

This should be all you need….

View attachment 8276159

looks like this is an image - got a link?

 

[Ebar48]

looks like this is an image - got a link?

It’s a joke…

Are you trying to min run the reloading setup for as cheep as possible? If you only shoot 100-200 a year you are better off just buying the Bergers. What are your goals? I know you want your gun to shoot better, but you are about to open up Pandora’s box pretty quickly

Also what are the rifles details

 

[Woolsocks]

It’s a joke…

Are you trying to min run the reloading setup for as cheep as possible? If you only shoot 100-200 a year you are better off just buying the Bergers. What are your goals? I know you want your gun to shoot better, but you are about to open up Pandora’s box pretty quickly

Also what are the rifles details

Ah, ya got me. This is why I’m asking you guys, instead of some dude at a big box sporting goods store - they’d actually sell me the $100 “starter kit” that’ll get ya a bucket of useless loads

Okee dok. It’s a browning x-bolt long range. 1:8 twist. Has a Burris XTRiii 3.3x18 up top.

The goal here is to have a rifle I can hunt long-range in high desert. Generally I’ll lay prone in a sleeping bag on the rim off a canyon and take shots at stuff filtering through 200-1000 yards away. The x-bolt LR seems to cater to this. It’s too light for competition, but works great for 2-3 long-range shots at a go. One option is to just switch out to a 300 win mag, but I do rather like this gun. I really like how it “fits”, and how it shoots with eld-m, but ya can’t hunt with that stuff.

Side note - who knows if bergers would shoot any better. I might spend $80 on a box for nothing. Or it might shoot great, but they’d quit making it after a year..

The guys at the range tell me the 212 grain eld-x might be throwing me off, since the 225-grain eld-m shoots great. Guessing I’d start by trying to work out a load that mimics the eld-x, but with a legitimate hunting bullet.

 

[Ebar48]

How have you determined the eldx won’t shoot? Have you shot 4x 5 shot groups with it at 100 yards in controlled conditions? If you just shoot a single 3-5 shot group that won’t tell you anything. Before you jump into spending a solid chunk of money reloading, have you determined what the accuracy is with the eldx ammo?

 

[Gustav7]

Barnes makes their LR ammo for 300prc

I’d just shoot the ELDm if it were me. Plenty of elk killed with it and you’re slinging a 212gr bullet lol

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I'd try some different High Quality ammo unless you are looking to drop a lot of money into reloading and do a lot of it. You can buy enough ammo to hunt with for a very long time for what it takes to reload not to mention the time

 

[JoshPutman]

Do you have other calibers that you would reload for, or is this the only one? If the answer to the first part is yes, then jumping into the reloading game may be for you. If it's no, then you may just be better off finding a factory load that shoots well and accomplishes the goal you set.

Another option may be finding someone local to you that could mentor you and allow you to use their equipment to work up a good load.

 

[Simonsza1]

My suggestion if you’re married to this rifle is save your time and especially your money by not getting into reloading for one rifle/caliber. Send your rifle to Clayton at wto and let him develop it all for you and you’re done. Time to go hunt. The guys amazing. Probably be way cheaper in the long run and way more accurate then you’ll get it as an inexperienced reloader.

Load Development – West Texas Ordnance, Inc. | Custom Rifles & Accessories

 

[secondofangle2]

You can spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars in load development even if you already have the reloading equipment.

You can’t just try 20 rounds of this and that bullet and powder. You have to buy boxes of 50 and 100 and powder is $50/lb. You will need some Retumbo some H1000 and some others. Unless you get lucky out of the gates.

Factory barrels are hit or miss. If it were me, I’d consider getting it rebarreled with a Proof carbon fiber barrel or similar from a competent gunsmith

 

[FWoo45]

I didn't start reloading to save money, but to shoot more. Getting into reloading just to get a xbolt to shoot for elk hunting, doesn't make sense to me.

Neither does taking a shot at an elk at 1ky and my 300 PRC was a sub 1/2 MOA gun with the load the 'smiff that built it worked up (not in my hands, haven't even shot it myself, raffle gun). That's a different conversion though.

 

[Woolsocks]

How have you determined the eldx won’t shoot? Have you shot 4x 5 shot groups with it at 100 yards in controlled conditions? If you just shoot a single 3-5 shot group that won’t tell you anything. Before you jump into spending a solid chunk of money reloading, have you determined what the accuracy is with the eldx ammo?

Went to the range today with a couple of guys who have been shooting long-range for 20 plus years. We tried 10-shot groups. We tried sleds, sandbags, bipods, different holds, chamber fans, cleaning…4 hours of anything we could think of to eliminate any variable other than ammo. We all shot it, none of us got better than 3-4 MOA groups.

At least I have lots of brass now..

Compared to eld-m, where I zero’d in with 3 shots, proceeded to put 8 rounds through the same hole at 200 yards, and went home.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Went to the range today with a couple of guys who have been shooting long-range for 20 plus years. We tried 10-shot groups. We tried sleds, sandbags, bipods, different holds, chamber fans, cleaning…4 hours of anything we could think of to eliminate any variable other than ammo. We all shot it, none of us got better than 3-4 MOA groups.

At least I have lots of brass now..

Compared to eld-m, where I zero’d in with 3 shots, proceeded to put 8 rounds through the same hole at 200 yards, and went home.

So you did find that ELDm will shoot or what?

 

[UpSideDown]

You don’t know it, but you probably punched the golden ticket. ELD-M is an awesome hunting bullet and if your gun shoots it well, you’re gold. I specifically built my 7PRC to hunt with 180gr ELDM.

Here’s my elk from two weeks ago. Double lung, 50yds, zero meat loss, massive internal hemorrhage, just had enough energy in him to run down a short hill and die at the edge of brush. Pic is of the entrance wound, the bullet stopped under the far side hide.

Here’s my buddys elk using my loaner 6.5 creedmoor. 130yds, 147gr ELDM, double lung, zero meat loss. Massive hemorrhage from the lungs. Died where he stood.

ELDM works. ELDX is normally a little less accurate, like sub-MOA, but if you’re getting that different of precision in a PRC between those rounds I would look at the gun as having maybe a chambering issue.

 

[Woolsocks]

Barnes makes their LR ammo for 300prc

I’d just shoot the ELDm if it were me. Plenty of elk killed with it and you’re slinging a 212gr bullet lol

eld-m is 225gr. People kill elk with it? I’ve heard it’s super-soft and prone to grenade’ing at normal velocity. I’d have to pass up anything closer than 800 yards so I can get down to 2000 fps…

 

[Woolsocks]

You don’t know it, but you probably punched the golden ticket. ELD-M is an awesome hunting bullet and if your gun shoots it well, you’re gold. I specifically built my 7PRC to hunt with 180gr ELDM.

Here’s my elk from two weeks ago. Double lung, 50yds, zero meat loss, massive internal hemorrhage, just had enough energy in him to run down a short hill and die at the edge of brush. Pic is of the entrance wound, the bullet stopped under the far side hide.
View attachment 8276420View attachment 8276421View attachment 8276422

Here’s my buddys elk using my loaner 6.5 creedmoor. 130yds, 147gr ELDM, double lung, zero meat loss. Massive hemorrhage from the lungs. Died where he stood.
View attachment 8276424View attachment 8276423


ELDM works. ELDX is normally a little less accurate, like sub-MOA, but if you’re getting that different of precision in a PRC between those rounds I would look at the gun as having maybe a chambering issue.

Well, damn….

 

[secondofangle2]

Our experience hunting deer with a Hornady Amax differs. The bullets perform and expand down to about 1800 ft./s

They need the energy to expand else they just poke through

 

[UpSideDown]

Well, damn….

ELD-M does fragment, and by legacy experience that could be a problem. But modern experience and sharing shows that a bullet that will consistently make it inside vitals and fragment is a good thing. Bonded bullets might pass through an animal and give a good blood trail for tracking but they also tend to make a smaller permanent cavity and blow out meat on the far side.

Tipped match bullets tend to work really well. They expand reliably, shed their jacket and fragment. This gives a great spread of damage in the vitals and the bullet tends to stop at the far side ribs/hide.

Both of these elk in the above pics got shot broadside through both lungs. The 7PRC went in, shredded a 2" diameter cylinder through both lungs, and the fragments were under the off-side with no lead/copper in any meat, even the heart was untouched. The 6.5 creedmoor did the same thing with about a 1.5" diameter cylinder of shredded lung.

Bergers usually also do well if you keep them fast enough and only hit vitals and no bone, but I've heard so many bad stories of Bergers and of monolithic coppers just penciling through that I have a hard time ever touching them.

Sierra Tipped Matchking and Hornady ELD-M are the current top contenders for effective hunting bullets, with ELD-M loads tending to shoot well and being easy to find.

 

[Woolsocks]

ELD-M does fragment, and by legacy experience that could be a problem. But modern experience and sharing shows that a bullet that will consistently make it inside vitals and fragment is a good thing. Bonded bullets might pass through an animal and give a good blood trail for tracking but they also tend to make a smaller permanent cavity and blow out meat on the far side.

Tipped match bullets tend to work really well. They expand reliably, shed their jacket and fragment. This gives a great spread of damage in the vitals and the bullet tends to stop at the far side ribs/hide.

Both of these elk in the above pics got shot broadside through both lungs. The 7PRC went in, shredded a 2" diameter cylinder through both lungs, and the fragments were under the off-side with no lead/copper in any meat, even the heart was untouched. The 6.5 creedmoor did the same thing with about a 1.5" diameter cylinder of shredded lung.

Bergers usually also do well if you keep them fast enough and only hit vitals and no bone, but I've heard so many bad stories of Bergers and of monolithic coppers just penciling through that I have a hard time ever touching them.

Sierra Tipped Matchking and Hornady ELD-M are the current top contenders for effective hunting bullets, with ELD-M loads tending to shoot well and being easy to find.

Interesting

Definitely loosing my interest in bergers, then. At 1000 yards, we’re down to 1500fps. My assumption is that a thinner jacketed bullet like eld-m expands easier, therefore performing better at lower velocities?

Your note about having a chambering issue - can you expound? Seems like that would make it inaccurate no matter what ammo is used.

 

[UpSideDown]

Interesting

Definitely loosing my interest in bergers, then. At 1000 yards, we’re down to 1500fps. My assumption is that a thinner jacketed bullet like eld-m expands easier, therefore performing better at lower velocities?

Your note about having a chambering issue - can you expound? Seems like that would make it inaccurate no matter what ammo is used.

Tipped, thin-jacketed match bullets tend to expand reliably, and 1,800fps is about the threshold of consistency for the ELDM, though they may expand at lower velocities.

By chambering 'issue' I'm pointing to the cutting of the throat. I'm not suspecting that the chamber itself is cut wrong, but that the depth before the rifling starts might favor the ELDM but not be playing well with the ELDX. 300PRC is an inherently accurate cartridge and I'm surprised that your ELDX's are doing so poorly.

 

[Woolsocks]

My suggestion if you’re married to this rifle is save your time and especially your money by not getting into reloading for one rifle/caliber. Send your rifle to Clayton at wto and let him develop it all for you and you’re done. Time to go hunt. The guys amazing. Probably be way cheaper in the long run and way more accurate then you’ll get it as an inexperienced reloader.

Load Development – West Texas Ordnance, Inc. | Custom Rifles & Accessories

This is worth thinking about. My issue with this (like many other precision items) is that they just guarantee 1-moa. Maybe I’m lucky, but even the bottom-end cheapo wal-mart rifles I’ve bought on a lark shoot sub-moa after you try a few common factory loads. It doesn’t seem like much of a guarantee. The point of putting a couple thousand into your setup is to do a bit better than the wal-mart specials. I know it’ll shoot 1/2moa with the right load. How do I know they’ll keep working on it till they get there?

 

[secondofangle2]

That’s the difference between factory barrels and match grade custom barrels.

Every now and again, you get a factory barrel that shoots good all around or shoots a particular load very well.

With match grade custom barrels, your likelihood of it shooting any round is much higher, and it of shooting certain combinations extremely well (bugholes) is higher too

 

[UpSideDown]

This is worth thinking about. My issue with this (like many other precision items) is that they just guarantee 1-moa. Maybe I’m lucky, but even the bottom-end cheapo wal-mart rifles I’ve bought on a lark shoot sub-moa after you try a few common factory loads. It doesn’t seem like much of a guarantee. The point of putting a couple thousand into your setup is to do a bit better than the wal-mart specials. I know it’ll shoot 1/2moa with the right load. How do I know they’ll keep working on it till they get there?

A 300PRC should shoot 212ELDX well. I think I can make that blanket assumption, knowing how that cartridge is designed and that anything chambered in it is relatively new. I've heard of some Brownings being inaccurate and based on you testing multiple shooters and having a known good round, I'd suspect that your barrel is the culprit. For the positives I've given to the ELDM rounds, I would also very much consider the ELDX round still due to its interlocked core and larger meplat, and I would want them to shoot well enough in my rifle.

 

[Ebar48]

That’s the difference between factory barrels and match grade custom barrels.

Every now and again, you get a factory barrel that shoots good all around or shoots a particular load very well.

With match grade custom barrels, your likelihood of it shooting any round is much higher, and it of shooting certain combinations extremely well (bugholes) is higher too

I second this and if you do anything I would rebarrel first. A quality barrel will shoot pretty much any factory match load well, not as good as a well developed hand load, but still really well. And to answer your first question about price to get setup to reload…. If you want the tools required to outperform quality factory ammo you are looking at 1500-2000 easy. Plus the time, tons of that required, to come up with a load. Add in components, and heaven forbid the first type of powder you try works. Next thing you know you have 900 more rounds down the barrel and you finally get your dream load and the barrel is shot out. Easy button in your situation with your desired goals is to get a quality barrel spun up for less than a grand out the door. If you still really want to reload let me know and I can break that estimate down for you more.

 

[Simonsza1]

This is worth thinking about. My issue with this (like many other precision items) is that they just guarantee 1-moa. Maybe I’m lucky, but even the bottom-end cheapo wal-mart rifles I’ve bought on a lark shoot sub-moa after you try a few common factory loads. It doesn’t seem like much of a guarantee. The point of putting a couple thousand into your setup is to do a bit better than the wal-mart specials. I know it’ll shoot 1/2moa with the right load. How do I know they’ll keep working on it till they get there?

Cause their reputation exceeds itself. And if it won’t he’ll tell you your rifle needs to go back to browning cause it sucks. The fact that it will shoot the eldm perfectly means there’s a recipe with a hunting bullet that will also imo.

 

[Woolsocks]

Interesting to note- a buddy of mine has a bergara premier in 300PRC with this same problem (eldm works, eldx doesn’t). In his case it’s even more extreme, like the the eld-x is off the paper half the time. Bergara customer support says their sub-moa garuntee only applies to their “reccomended load”, which is eld-m.

Makes me wonder if both these guns are designed for eld-m, and you’re just SOL with anything else, unless you hand load.,

 

[secondofangle2]

these are factory rifles;

you rarely see these complaints with custom barrels

It's a hard truth

 

[Woolsocks]

these are factory rifles;

you rarely see these complaints with custom barrels

It's a hard truth

Just out of curiosity- what are some recomended folks to get custom barrels from?

 

[secondofangle2]

you could find a local smith and ask them if they rebarrel that kind of rifle.

Or if you're willing to ship, there are countless candidates.

What state are you located in? There's probably a gunsmith thread somewhere.

SAC in Wellington Ohio and Eric Smith E-S Tactical in Logan Utah are two I have used

 

[Simonsza1]

Black canyon gunsmith in Denver is amazing. His name is Fritz. Clayton at wto is also a great smith.

 

[Woolsocks]

you could find a local smith and ask them if they rebarrel that kind of rifle.

Or if you're willing to ship, there are countless candidates.

What state are you located in? There's probably a gunsmith thread somewhere.

SAC in Wellington Ohio and Eric Smith E-S Tactical in Logan Utah are two I have used

In the Seattle area.

It’s extremely likely that shipping somewhere would be better... I’m in the land of tech kids who drive their Lamborghinis to the gun store and automatically buy the most expensive thing they can find. It shows in the custom build prices here…

 

[jolofree]

"put 8 rounds through the same hole at 200 yards, and went home."

That's pretty fair shootin, I'd go home after that too

 

[FredHammer]

Can’t seem to find a factory hunting load that my 300 prc likes. How much would it cost me to get into reloading (from scratch) instead? I have once-fired brass. Need everything else, including some variations of loads to see what works.

For those who want more info, I’ve tried hornady’s 3 variations of 300 prc. It shoots 1/2MOA with match ammo. Throws the other two varieties all over the place. I need something I can hunt with, so just shooting eld-m does me no good. Berger ammo might work, but I’m starting to wonder if I could just buy reloading supplies cheaper than backordered $80/box Bergers..

I don’t shoot competition, so I don’t need to mass-produce ammo. I do shoot enough to to be confident taking down an elk at 1000 yards. Might go through 100-200 rounds a year.

I hope you understand shooting targets at 1000-1500-1 mile is nothing compared to shooting an animal at those distances.
Ever considered "time of flight"? Animals move, and can alter their orientation in half a second. Go charging after another animal in the same time. In addition, positions, and atmospherics for these stupid ass supposed hunting distances are woefully not in your favor. No bullets at those distances are a good bullets. You could get a hunting bullet and actually hunt the game, like: locate, close with, and harvest by fire & maneuver, or repel it's assault with fire and close combat?

 

[secondofangle2]

In the Seattle area.

It’s extremely likely that shipping somewhere would be better... I’m in the land of tech kids who drive their Lamborghinis to the gun store and automatically buy the most expensive thing they can find. It shows in the custom build prices here…

If you want to stick with that rifle call the 2 dudes I meantioned and ask them about a rebarrel with a hunting profile barrel or a Proof Carbon Fiber barrel.

Or keep your rifle, hunt with the ELD (I do), and start building a purpose-build rifle from scratch, or buy an off-the-shelf one something like this: https://cooperfirearms.com/pages/open-country-long-range-lightweight

Depends on how soon you need it. Lead times are a bitch.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Can’t seem to find a factory hunting load that my 300 prc likes. How much would it cost me to get into reloading (from scratch) instead? I have once-fired brass. Need everything else, including some variations of loads to see what works.

For those who want more info, I’ve tried hornady’s 3 variations of 300 prc. It shoots 1/2MOA with match ammo. Throws the other two varieties all over the place. I need something I can hunt with, so just shooting eld-m does me no good. Berger ammo might work, but I’m starting to wonder if I could just buy reloading supplies cheaper than backordered $80/box Bergers..

I don’t shoot competition, so I don’t need to mass-produce ammo. I do shoot enough to to be confident taking down an elk at 1000 yards. Might go through 100-200 rounds a year.

Not sure what everyone else has said, but the first expense should be at least two, preferably three or more reloading manuals. This will set you back a hundred bucks or a bit more, but cheap, cheap, insurance. Cross referencing loads, assures accurate loading and a real measure of safety. (No puns intended)

 

[wcberry]

Can’t seem to find a factory hunting load that my 300 prc likes. How much would it cost me to get into reloading (from scratch) instead? I have once-fired brass. Need everything else, including some variations of loads to see what works.

For those who want more info, I’ve tried hornady’s 3 variations of 300 prc. It shoots 1/2MOA with match ammo. Throws the other two varieties all over the place. I need something I can hunt with, so just shooting eld-m does me no good. Berger ammo might work, but I’m starting to wonder if I could just buy reloading supplies cheaper than backordered $80/box Bergers..

I don’t shoot competition, so I don’t need to mass-produce ammo. I do shoot enough to to be confident taking down an elk at 1000 yards. Might go through 100-200 rounds a year.

If your not going to reloading that much but want to have some rounds made for you chamber, check out Cooper Creek. They will sell you some various loads based on your gun till you find the one that works and you like. https://coppercreekcartridgeco.com/product-category/ammunition/300prc/

 

[Woolsocks]

If you want to stick with that rifle call the 2 dudes I meantioned and ask them about a rebarrel with a hunting profile barrel or a Proof Carbon Fiber barrel.

Or keep your rifle, hunt with the ELD (I do), and start building a purpose-build rifle from scratch, or buy an off-the-shelf one something like this: https://cooperfirearms.com/pages/open-country-long-range-lightweight

Depends on how soon you need it. Lead times are a bitch.

Thanks. Any recommended resources to learn about the options and variables? I’d like to learn a little, just so I know what to ask for.

Lead times are not a problem. I’d like to hunt with this in about a year, so I’ve got a little time.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Thanks. Any recommended resources to learn about the options and variables? I’d like to learn a little, just so I know what to ask for.

Lead times are not a problem. I’d like to hunt with this in about a year, so I’ve got a little time.

Read my post, it can get you a long way to understanding what, where, why and what for.

 

[Wonderingmoose69]

In the Seattle area.

It’s extremely likely that shipping somewhere would be better... I’m in the land of tech kids who drive their Lamborghinis to the gun store and automatically buy the most expensive thing they can find. It shows in the custom build prices here…

I am local to you as well, and I have a Xbolt Long Range in 300PRC. I haven't been able to group it under about .8-.9 with ELDX and that is with a CAN on the end. without it its borderline an inch with a few groups here or there that group nice. COLD bore has been a joke lol.

I am gonna try ELDM's as well. Seems like everywhere I ask or look, the browning owners are saying ELDM's .

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Haven't read every post. Is it the ELD-X bullet that isn't performing well (as in loaded ammo) or is it Hornady Precision Hunter ammo?

Precision Hunter has been fairly inconsistent in saami chambers for us. No issue when loading eld-x. And eld-m ammo performs very well in most every chamber.

It's always .75moa or so usually at most. But it hasn't be nearly as consistent as eld-m.

 

[madman23]

I started wi a Lee classic cast, and it did well but always had a hard stroke. Not what she said. Went to a Foster's Co-ax and what a difference. Have a Dillion 550C got last year. If you don't shoot over a case of ammo a year your wasting your time reloading. Find better factory ammo or better yet a friend that reloads. I enjoy reloading and the winters are great for that. You never save money. You just shoot more.

 

[Wonderingmoose69]

Haven't read every post. Is it the ELD-X bullet that isn't performing well (as in loaded ammo) or is it Hornady Precision Hunter ammo?

Precision Hunter has been fairly inconsistent in saami chambers for us. No issue when loading eld-x. And eld-m ammo performs very well in most every chamber.

It's always .75moa or so usually at most. But it hasn't be nearly as consistent as eld-m.

Hornady precision specifically