Reloading questions from Reloading cherry...

[18Echo]

Just dropped a bunch of cash on reloading equipment from Midsouth. The only thing I have left to get is dies, headspace guage, and bullet comparator(sp?).

I've read through the Hornady and Sierra reloading manuals and watched the RCBS reloading DVD, did a search here and still have a couple questions.

1. You guys that are shooting these amazingly tight groups, are you using competition dies with the micrometers or are you just that good with regular dies?

2. I have some new Winnie brass and most have necks that are not perfectly round, how do you fix this? Is this what the little ball on the punch for the primers does? Also if the Manuals call for a .308 case to be 2.005, some of the new brass is shorter in the vicinity of 2.004 or .003, do I use a full length resizer to resize it and then trim it, or load it as is, shoot it and then size it from there?

3. The hornady book recommends neck sizing if shooting in one gun because the case now "fits" the chamber after the reload and there should be minimal headspace. What can I do to ensure my unfired brass is against the shoulder and eliminate excessive headspace.

4. Belted magnums headspace off the belt and not the shoulder right? (did I say that right?)

5. Have an RCBS rockchucker enroute. actually RCBS everything, almost. What dies do you suggest for .308 and 7mmRM?

excuse my ignorance if what I'm trying to get at sounds convoluted. I need a reloading mentor in the vicinity of Gilbert AZ (.....Sobrbiker....

)

 

[our gang]

Re: Reloading questions from Reloading cherry...

You can shoot tight groups with Lee presses and dies, I do it all the time. Any good dies will allow good groups. Really expensive dies like RCBS or Redding bushing dies, neck turning, weighing cases, primer pocker uniforming and all that stuff will produce marginal accuracy improvements. BUT IMO you are far better off putting ammo down range than getting anal about reloading.

Belted cartridges were designed by Holland and Holland to headspace on the belt for places like Africa and India back in the days of nasty cordite powder, corrosive primers, dirty ammo and chambers. The case body could be made undersized and tapered, look at a 375 H&H (The first big H&H) so it would ALWAYS chamber and always extract. Nobody reloaded so a case stretching a bit was far less important than chambering and extracting with a Lion coming down your throat.
In today's world, the belt is more of a "cool" thing than what it was intended for. Problem is the factories still make the cases to headspace on the belt, so when you fire that 300 winmag, the case stretches to fill the chamber which shortens case life. The right way to handle new belted cases (that have a shoulder) is to neck them up (like a 300 winmag to 33 caliber neck.) Step two is to neck it back down to 30 a bit at a time until the cartridge will just chamber with gentle bolt resistance. You have in effect created a "false shoulder" for the case to headspace on rather than the belt. When you load and fire it, the case will not stretch and your brass will last longer. In future reloads the cartridge will headspace on the shoulder just like a beltless case, as long as you don't full length resize it. Back the sizing die out so it does not touch the shell holder.

Subscribe to Rifle and Handloader Magazines (Wolfe Publishing), they are great resources.

This Marlin 270 WCF rifle, that in total cost <$800, shoots like this, with plain old Remington brass, regular CCI LR primers and 135 Sierra Match Kings loaded on a Lee turret press with Lee dies.
Only "extra step" was weighing the powder charges as 4350 does not meter well from a measure.

Good shooting and don't hesitate to ask questions and read.

 

[lordt313]

Re: Reloading questions from Reloading cherry...

I use RCBS standard dies, they are great, I hold real tight groups (avg. .62 inches at 100) out of my .308, I actually full length re size every time although I am going to begin neck sizing only. I did a side by side comparison of my 168gr loads next to FGGM 168's and mine were .25 inches smaller as far as group size. I have not yet seen a need for comp. dies so for now I use the standard dies.

I have shot some loads where the case length was as little as 2.000, and didnt notice much different, but I am no expert on this subject, to date I have only loaded 1500 rds in 100rd lots.

hope that helps some

-Taylor

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Reloading questions from Reloading cherry...

I use Lee Dies and a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die (because I don't like to trim more than necessary).

You can make great ammo with the regular dies. I will be stepping up to a Redding Competition seating die, but only because it will save me a couple swings of the press handle (I seat the bullet in three steps to make sure it's concentric).

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Reloading questions from Reloading cherry...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. You guys that are shooting these amazingly tight groups, are you using competition dies with the micrometers or are you just that good with regular dies?

2. I have some new Winnie brass and most have necks that are not perfectly round; how do you fix this? Is this what the little ball on the punch for the primers does? Also, if the manuals call for a .308 case to be 2.005 and some of the new brass is shorter in the vicinity of 2.004 or .003, do I use a full length resizer to resize it and then trim it, or load it as is, shoot it and then size it from there?

3. The Hornady book recommends neck sizing if shooting in one gun because the case now "fits" the chamber after the reload and there should be minimal headspace. What can I do to ensure my unfired brass is against the shoulder and eliminate excessive headspace?

4. Belted magnums headspace off the belt and not the shoulder, right?

5. What dies do you suggest for .308 and 7mmRM?</div></div>
1. The micrometer seating dies are useful if you're spacing your bullets in proximity to the lands. However, if you're loading from a magazine, you're usually limited by magazine length. A major design feature of the competition seating die is a sleeve that aligns the bullet for straight seating. The standard Forster seater has this feature, but only the micrometer seater in the Redding line is so built.

2. Running the expander ball (on the sizing die) through the dented case necks will make them round.

Appropriate case neck length from a practical standpoint is anything less than chamber length. Sinclair has an inexpensive plug that fits in a shortened case that allows you to measure your chamber's length. Keep your brass shorter (0.005"?). Most folks just trim to even the lengths and don't allow to exceed SAAMI spec. Beside avoiding jamming the brass in the end of the chamber, even case lengths equalize the neck grip on the bullet. I would trim after resizing once-fired brass, but opinions vary.

3. Neck sizing is primarily done to minimize how much the brass gets worked. Partial full-length sizing (minimal headspace) will net similar results while assuring reliable feeding for hunting guns. Bushing sizers also minimize the working of the brass while avoiding problems that may be introduced by the expander. The Lee collet die is another way to neck size. The neck dies can be used in conjunction with a body die.

Partial full-length sizing will assure minimal headspace, and a gauge or Redding Competition Shellholder set makes it easier to get the desired results.

4. Belted magnums introduce a special problem in that the brass is usually too short for the chamber. If case separation is a problem, forming a false shoulder on the case neck (expanding the neck and then down sizing only enough to fit the chamber) will allow the brass to expand to fill the chamber.

5. Which dies you want depends on what you wish to achieve (and spend). For a standard set, Forster is excellent. Bushings and micrometers cost considerably more. You can mix brands.

If you want to know it all, get Glen Zediker's <span style="text-decoration: underline">Handloading for Competition</span>. It's a tough read, but the info is there.