Rem 700 firing pin falling on bolt close

[Cookieman8]

So I noticed something this evening while I was replacing my factory rem 700 trigger with a TT primary.

First off I have 3 rem 700's that all wear different triggers (factory, timney, TT)

Today while replacing the factory trigger with the TT primary, I was dry firing and adjusting. I noticed when I opened the bolt, but DID NOT slide it back, the firing pin would cock but would fall if I closed the bolt. If I opened the bolt and slid it back maybe 1/16 " or so I heard a slight "click" and then closed the bolt, the firing pin would stay cocked.

So I tried my other 700's. Both of my other 2, the firing pin would stay cocked if I lifted the bolt and closed it without sliding the bolt back. Very odd. Not sure if it's a problem but I do want to hear if this is normal? I never noticed before but I'm awfully curious now.

 

[Chickentoast]

My factory action 5R with TT Diamond needs to be pulled back a touch, although I've never noticed a click. My blueprinted 700's (1 LRI and 1 Clay Spencer) with TT Diamond and Jewell BR do not need to come back.

 

[gnochi]

When you cock the bolt, you’re partially using the extraction to force the firing pin back along a ramp. There’s then a sear that engages the trigger sear. In this case, the Remington tolerances are so shitty that the firing pin sear is further forwards than the triggertech trigger sear, so there’s nothing to catch it. When you close the bolt again you’re riding the firing pin back down along the cocking ramp.

When you pull the bolt back, the ramp holds the firing pin in place until the sears engage.

 

[Cookieman8]

When you cock the bolt, you’re partially using the extraction to force the firing pin back along a ramp. There’s then a sear that engages the trigger sear. In this case, the Remington tolerances are so shitty that the firing pin sear is further forwards than the triggertech trigger sear, so there’s nothing to catch it. When you close the bolt again you’re riding the firing pin back down along the cocking ramp.

When you pull the bolt back, the ramp holds the firing pin in place until the sears engage.

That makes since. I was thinking of a tolerance issue since remington has a reputation for that. I guess it's not a problem so to speak, just a tolerance issue?

 

[Cookieman8]

My factory action 5R with TT Diamond needs to be pulled back a touch, although I've never noticed a click. My blueprinted 700's (1 LRI and 1 Clay Spencer) with TT Diamond and Jewell BR do not need to come back.

I'm not alone it seems. The click I hear is very subtle, hard to hear but it's definitely there. If I watch my trigger, the shoe resets as the click occurs so I'm guessing it's the reset. (Comparable to a glock reset )

Your 5r doesn't have issues with this does it? Just a minor annoyance ?

 

[gnochi]

That makes since. I was thinking of a tolerance issue since remington has a reputation for that. I guess it's not a problem so to speak, just a tolerance issue?

I’d be somewhat concerned, because it could mean that the firing pin starts or ends the firing sequence too far forward, increasing the likelihood of an unintended discharge when running the bolt quickly or a pierced primer if a load is slightly hot. That said, if it’s a bench rifle only it’s probably not a huge concern. I wouldn’t carry it in the field.

For the sake of checking all bases:

• Did the original trigger do this?
• Does that TT Primary do this with either other rifle?

 

[Cookieman8]

I’d be somewhat concerned, because it could mean that the firing pin starts or ends the firing sequence too far forward, increasing the likelihood of an unintended discharge when running the bolt quickly or a pierced primer if a load is slightly hot. That said, if it’s a bench rifle only it’s probably not a huge concern. I wouldn’t carry it in the field.

For the sake of checking all bases:

• Did the original trigger do this?
• Does that TT Primary do this with either other rifle?

I never noticed it before but I will put the factory trigger back in this evening and test it. I wonder if others also have this happening

 

[supercorndogs]

I am not sure I have come across a Remington that doesn't do this.

 

[pmclaine]

Did you buy it from NBC or CBS "60 Minutes"?

 

[Cookieman8]

I am not sure I have come across a Remington that doesn't do this.

I have 2 in possession! Lol

 

[Cookieman8]

Did you buy it from NBC?

Can't say that I did.

 

[supercorndogs]

I went and checked some rifles real quick. I have two actions with Gieselle two stages that don't do it, and 2 with Huber two stages that do. I can say I have noticed quite a few Remingtons do the same thing over the years. Enough i assumed they all did.

It is following, not dropping the pin, the pin doesn't catch and runs back down the ramp.

 

[Cookieman8]

I went and checked some rifles real quick. I have two actions with Gieselle two stages that don't do it, and 2 with Huber two stages that do. I can say I have noticed quite a few Remingtons do the same thing over the years. Enough i assumed they all did.

It is following, not dropping the pin, the pin doesn't catch and runs back down the ramp.

You are correct, following not dropping is my experience here as well.

 

[spife7980]

I am not sure I have come across a Remington that doesn't do this.

Same.

And it’s not just rem either.

It’s not a problem, it’s just what it is.

 

[Average guy]

On the later Remington actions it’s a problem with incorrect bolt handle profile. This causes virtually no primary extraction that was designed in the action. The small movement till the click is the normal primary extraction movement. There are gunsmiths that can repair the lack of primary extraction. LRI comes to mind, I believe the refer to it as tig and time the bolt handle

 

[Cookieman8]

On the later Remington actions it’s a problem with incorrect bolt handle profile. This causes virtually no primary extraction that was designed in the action. The small movement till the click is the normal primary extraction movement. There are gunsmiths that can repair the lack of primary extraction. LRI comes to mind, I believe the refer to it as tig and time the bolt handle

How necessary is this ? The rifle functions, is there a reason or just a want to fix it?

 

[Average guy]

I have an RR prefix action that has the same problem. It functions fine but I plan on doing a tig and time upgrade. By moving and recontouring the bolt handle it

1). Establishes the proper timing of trigger function

2). You gain the proper mechanical primary extraction. This will definitely be an aid if you encounter a slightly hot load that’s harder to extract

Problem is once you have realized it’s there, it will continually bug you. As stated above I have a rifle that has the same issue. Only reason I haven’t remedied the problem is I have hunted far less in the past years, and it’s a semi custom hunting rifle that doesn’t see much use currently. Every time I cycle the bolt it bothers me.

If you plan on keeping the action long term I’d definitely fix it. It’s one of those things I can’t un- notice.

 

[Tchitcherine]

Even if strictly speaking there is no safety issue in its current (broken) state, IMO time and tig to ensure the bolt functions as intended would be worth the expense.

 

[Cookieman8]

I spoke with LRI and Triggertech and both said it's the action/bolt. Not necessarily a "problem" just an inconvenience (as long it still functions and doesn't slam fire etc). They even mention it could be the "hump" on the cocking piece engages the TT different than the factory and that's now why I'm noticing it. Wow, who would of thought that adding a new trigger would result in this birds nest of possibilities!! Thanks everyone for the information and help. I will try and live with it and fix it at a later date it seems.

 

[Holliday]

Yea, I bought a “trued” stainless short action from Jim at Northland Shooters Supply and had the same issue. My old 30-06 (now 280ai) would cock by just lifting the bolt. The Trued short action needed to be pulled back a bit.

I did some research and found out it is a bolt handle timing issue. He basically told me if it bothered me, to contact Remington warranty. I somehow thought that “trued” involved pre-inspection. I was wrong.

 

[Chickentoast]

Your 5r doesn't have issues with this does it? Just a minor annoyance ?

Only notice when dry firing, which I only do to set/check the trigger. Blueprinted actions are definitely nicer, but I wouldn't spend money to do it anymore - easier to just go Origin or Kelbly's etc. if you feel the need.

 

[Average guy]

One thing that’s disheartening is shooting various age Remington actions. The earlier actions were definitely nice. As time has moved on the QC has definitely gone to hell. Really disappointing when you compare newer actions to the old actions.

 

[Cookieman8]

Only notice when dry firing, which I only do to set/check the trigger. Blueprinted actions are definitely nicer, but I wouldn't spend money to do it anymore - easier to just go Origin or Kelbly's etc. if you feel the need.

I feel you there. I bought my last remington for sure. 3 is enough. After building a new tikka this year, absolutely no reason to buy a rem and build it. Even a bergara is a much better option.

 

[Cookieman8]

One thing that’s disheartening is shooting various age Remington actions. The earlier actions were definitely nice. As time has moved on the QC has definitely gone to hell. Really disappointing when you compare newer actions to the old actions.

I wish I was around in the golden ages! I have an older Marlin 444 that I feel the same way about. So much nicer in comparison to newer ones.

 

[Cookieman8]

Does anyone know the best place to get the bolt timed and fixed ?

 

[gnochi]

Does anyone know the best place to get the bolt timed and fixed ?

LRI

 

[Chickentoast]

LRI!

 

[Average guy]

I wish I was around in the golden ages! I have an older Marlin 444 that I feel the same way about. So much nicer in comparison to newer ones.

Call Chad at LRI. Good folks who will take care of you. Growing up my dad was a Remington nut. I shot 721, 722, lots of varying age 700.

 

[OXN]

Not necessarily a "problem" just an inconvenience (as long it still functions and doesn't slam fire etc).

Just checked my '16 Mountain SS. Nothing like the described issue. That would freak me out big time, though. If a firing pin is moving enough around a chambered round to make a sound you think is it falling, that's something I'd personally want to get fixed. Watched a decocker fail on a Sig P226 one time and send one downrange. Not something you forget easily.

 

[Average guy]

It freaked me out when I first tried it. Never worked the action before the build, it was a bare action I bought. Still love the rifle but it needs to go to LRI and get fixed. Definitely a mental thing for me

 

[supercorndogs]

Does anyone know the best place to get the bolt timed and fixed ?

Timing the bolt is probably not going to change it. One of mine that does it has gone through the full works at LRI. The primary extraction has nothing to do with cocking the firing pin. The primary extraction is about unseating a fired case from the chamber.

 

[hlee]

I have a 700 from the mid 90s that will cock and hold the firing pin by just lifting and closing the bolt. Factory original. I have another 700 from the mid 2000s that requires the bolt to move back some for it to cock and hold the firing pin. Also factory original. My take has always been that there was a subtle design change in that time frame that caused the slight difference in how the trigger/bolt functions.

 

[Average guy]

I was told it was an out of spec blot handle that didn’t force the bolt back with the primary camming action. Explains the small movement needed on the newer action

 

[MK20]

Your bolt handle camming surface isn't giving you the proper amount of primary extraction. Not a safety issue but somewhat annoying. Fix it if you want. Shoot it if you don't.

 

[LawnMM]

and adjusting.

Try increasing the pull weight, I'll bet the issue goes away.

 

[supercorndogs]

I am not saying its not true, but one I have with the "tig and time" service when they trued the action and fitted the barrel, still does it. My 700 223 has plenty of primary extraction and still does it.

I don't see how its a problem. If you are feeding rounds you are going to be moving the bolt rearward, and firing pin will reset instead of following. I think what actually needs adjusted would be referred to as trigger timing.

 

[Holliday]

Out of spec
Pain in the ass
Annoying
Not seeing how its a problem

These are all different.

When I want to cock my circa 2009 cheap Dicks action on the bench while doing things like dry firing or checking trigger pull weight etc., it’s lift bolt and down.

On my Northland Supply shiny new stainless “trued action” I need to pull the bolt back to cock. Also primary extraction is the bare minimum.

I make my living designing and selling products. This is exactly the type of mix experience I avoid subjecting my customers to.