These are a couple of my Remington 1903's. Not real sniper rifles, just clean 03's with Belding & Mull scope mounts and Unterl scopes. The rifle in the C stock in only marginally accurate (about 1.5" at 100 yards), the rifle in the straight grip stock is a hammer (usually cloverleafs at 100 yards).
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I LOVE seeing Unertl Sniper clones built with straight stocks. When I first started to get into the Unertl Snipers that was so taboo. I love that thought process has changed and you never see anyone mention they were all built on C's anymore.
With that being said where did you get the Belding & Mull scope mounts ? Some here might not know what they are.
They were a mount to put a scope on a M1903 that didn't require any modification. You remove the rear sight and they install there.
I think they did make a few new ones a while back. Someone had a machinist make one. But even those are rare as hen's teeth.
I actually wish they would make a run again. There was also another one back in the day called the Knoble. Same principle. It worked great as well.
Beautiful rifles by the way! There is nothing more classic looking than a Unertl on M1903 rifle.
This style rifle is by far my favorite rifle type. If I could only own rifle, it would be one of these. Nice job!
With that being said where did you get the Belding & Mull scope mounts ? Some here might not know what they are.
They were a mount to put a scope on a M1903 that didn't require any modification. You remove the rear sight and they install there.
I think they did make a few new ones a while back. Someone had a machinist make one. But even those are rare as hen's teeth.
I actually wish they would make a run again. There was also another one back in the day called the Knoble. Same principle. It worked great as well.
Beautiful rifles by the way! There is nothing more classic looking than a Unertl on M1903 rifle.
This style rifle is by far my favorite rifle type. If I could only own rifle, it would be one of these. Nice job!
Not snipery at all... but my 03 in .458 Magnum.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Moose can no longer talk,... but where is squirrel?!?!?
Ah! I see! Squirrel has ear to ground listening for us, Natasha! We must be quiet, or squirrel will hear us.
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Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
Is that scope a fixed power 10x?
That is straight out of Newhart. (sitcom)
All C stock snipers? No scant stocks? Or are you just saying the unertl mounted guns were all C stock?
I'm Darryl. That's my brother Larry. That's my brother Darryl and that's my other brother Darryl...
Hey, they had to base them on someone!
Cheers,
Sirhr
The Marines had never acquired Scants when they started to produce the Unertl Snipers in Jan 1943. In fact the Fleet force Marines had even avoided the Army C stock, only taking them when they absolutely had no other choice during WWII. But before WWII the Marines would actually take GG Straight stocks that had up to two breaks, and would repair them, over taking new C's.
All evidence points to the first Unertls made, they just used whatever stock was on the rifle when it was pulled from the crate to mount the scope. In May 1943, it was recommended that all future builds of Unertls would be built with C stocks. But it is doubtful many were made after this date.
Since all started life as a Marine NM team rifle, or Special Target rifle (former Marine NM team rifle rebarreled by the Marines at Philly). The C stock would have been the most common since all NM had a C stock since 1928.
Most of the Unertl snipers we find, are from the NM orders to the Marines in 1937 and 1940.
Even though basically every Marine Sniper we find started out life as a 1903A1 National Match. The Marine teams did have guys that preferred the straight stock. So some were restocked to the Straight. We have pics of team rifles with these, plus existing examples with the team mods, and mentions back in the day.
Also the Special Target rifles i spoke of earlier were used in all Marine Divisional Matches and many of them would have been restocked with a straight stock because the regular Marine force had never used a C.
I can only think of one real Marine Sniper rifle I have seen that had a Scant. But we all assume it was acquired at a later date then build. Whether much later in life in the Marines, or in the civilian World.
It's hard to know for sure where it picked it up.
When I first started to research the Unertl snipers almost 10 years ago now, all experts said they all had C stocks. No exceptions. In fact some real rifles were disqualified by these experts because they didn't have a C.
I started to put a lot of research out on them, and now days you never see anyone say that. Which I'm very glad.
I actually have a straight stock Sniper. That is why I am so passionate about this. My rifle was one that some experts disqualified because of the straight stock all those years ago. Now my rifle is seen as a Gold Standard that many are compared to.
That is why when I see a straight stocked clone, I get a real big kick out of it. Because I just think back how those experts told me they didn't exist.
Norton has been supplying us with a vast amount of knowledge. You guys need to check out some of his posts on the CMP Forums. I can't imagine the amount of time he's devoted to reading through archived information but he's uncovered some really fascinating documents that have made many folks rethink what was once accepted as "common knowledge".
His dedication is much appreciated!
His dedication is much appreciated!
Is there any difference in cheek weld between the two stock styles?
I have only seen 3 of the Belding & Mull scope mounts for sale and I bought all 3 of them. I have occasionally but rarely seen one on a Hoffer Thompson rifle.
I don't represent these as 1941 Marine Corps. rifles or any kind of legit sniper rifle. I do however carry them around at gun shows to hear the experts try to tell me what they are.
The rifle in the C stock has an 8X scope, the rifle with the straight grip stock has 12X. I have also occasionally mounted an A5 scope, Belding & Mull scope or an early Lyman Junior Targetspot on them to see what other experts have to offer.
Im working on another rifle, I have a 03A3 receiver, an airgauged barrel from an NRA sporter that was shortened to right behind the front sight base, an Air Service mag, Canjar set trigger and a set of Unertl bases made for the 03A3. The rear base fits the dovetail on the receiver. Since the barrel is already ruined I am going to thread it and install an M60 duckbill flash hider. I have an all black Unertl 10X I am going to put on it.
BTW, the rifle below is my deer hunting rifle. Yes it is a real 03A4 with a real M73B1 scope.
Yes the straight stock has a little more drop at the heel so the scope is higher in relation to the stock.
The rifle on top has an 8X, the rifle on the bottom has a 12X.
There is no cheek weld with those rigs.
I was using a K98 sniper on the weekend and it was fine from the sitting position but "impossible" from prone. Then I tried a 1903 (cannot remember which stock) with iron sights and saw the same issue if it was mounted.
No4 (T) seems to be the only one from that time with a low scope over bore set up and a cheek piece for prone shooting.
I have a straight stock and C stocked Unertl. The C is a fuzz more comfortable for me, but not by much. I personally like either for shooting.
lol some of those guys acted like I kicked their dog when I posted stuff on the M1917. Talk about kill the messenger. I think most were really open to it, but some people just resist change.
But thank you for your nice comments. I actually really enjoy sharing research. I always like having everyone's input and love seeing other's research as well.
lol some of those guys acted like I kicked their dog when I posted stuff on the M1917. Talk about kill the messenger. I think most were really open to it, but some people just resist change.
But thank you for your nice comments. I actually really enjoy sharing research. I always like having everyone's input and love seeing other's research as well.
Gotta like those No. 4’s. One of many old rifles my dad didn't want me to have as “they weren’t as good as a Rem 700.” Dumb, but that’s the way my dad was.
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