Remington action with poor extraction - Will a small base die help with this problem?

A.Huggy

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Hello,

I have a Remington action with very poor extraction timing. Extracting fired brass usually requires a stiff slap on the bolt handle. Factory ammo usually extracts fine, but fireformed brass is usually difficult to extract.

I always bump the shoulder .002" and I have used the same lot of brass and the same die to reload for another rifle with no issues.

I think the correct solution to this problem is to send the action to LRI and have them time the bolt handle/extraction cam correctly. But.... could I get around this problem temporarily by using a small base die and bumping the shoulder .004"? Basically I'm going to pretend I'm loading for a gas gun.

Thanks
 

SWgeezer

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If this is a safe load...you can cam over your press and further size them some. If it is a safe load. Sounds like pressure to me.
 
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spife7980

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Firing the brass undoes what a sizing die did. What it was before doesnt matter when the after is the problem.

If factory is fine then its you loading too hot.
 
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A.Huggy

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If this is a safe load...you can cam over your press and further size them some. If it is a safe load. Sounds like pressure to me.
I should clarify: The bolt lifts very easily but it does not move rearward without some persuasion.
This rifle is chambered in .308 Win. I'm loading 168 SMK with 42gr of IMR 4064.
 
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37L1

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I should clarify: The bolt lifts very easily but it does not move rearward without some persuasion.
This rifle is chambered in .308 Win. I'm loading 168 SMK with 42gr of IMR 4064.
Measure just above your case head, factory vs. fired brass. That should provide you with the information you need to address the issue.
 

nn8734

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    I should clarify: The bolt lifts very easily but it does not move rearward without some persuasion.
    This rifle is chambered in .308 Win. I'm loading 168 SMK with 42gr of IMR 4064.
    Do you have the same problem if you’re running 41g or 40.5g of 4064?
     

    Lange Carabine

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    Have you tried different brands of brass?
    On one of my 700's (RR prefix)the timing is so far off till I have to pull back o the bolt slightly for the trigger to reset.
    I'm loading 43gr IMR 4064 under 168gr SMK/Nosler CC in cases sized with a standard die and only have extraction issues with one particular brand of brass.
    The same load combination extracts fine in another slightly older 700 that's timed right.
     

    spife7980

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    I should clarify: The bolt lifts very easily but it does not move rearward without some persuasion.
    This rifle is chambered in .308 Win. I'm loading 168 SMK with 42gr of IMR 4064.
    After firing stick a feeler gauge in between the primary extraction ramps on the receiver and bolt to advance its timing and see if that cures it for you.
    1640041053007.png



    If its really not you loading overpressure and the ift itself is just fine then Id send it to LRI (or another shop of your choice) for a time and tig if it really bugs you. But the fact that it doesnt with factory ammo kind of refutes that theory.


    Watch some of these videos https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos particularly Does your die fit your chamber and Clickers
     
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    Timo Turl

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    You might get lucky with a small base die but I suspect you will still have extraction issues with some of the brass. The case head has already expanded too much in the other chamber. Just buy yourself new brass, I know it’s painful to bin those cases but new brass will solve the issue.
     

    MarshallDodge

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    I have a similar issue with a Remington 700 223 action. Loads have to be loaded on the milder side or extraction can be sketchy.
     

    eschafer

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    just to clarify, as for some reason I'm not 100% clear: Were these sticking cases fired only in the suspected problem Remington? or rather, have you shared these cases between your two aforementioned rifles?
     

    Choid

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    So, it's pretty well known that the 168 fgmm load is 42.8 of 4064 under the 168 at 2.8 oal. There is some variance because it is a thrown charge, but that is pretty close. If that is the factory load that is working well, it is likely a brass issue, either shitty brass or tiny capacity creating excess pressure. 42 grains of 4064 is not a hot load at all.
     

    A.Huggy

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    After firing stick a feeler gauge in between the primary extraction ramps on the receiver and bolt to advance its timing and see if that cures it for you.
    View attachment 7765751


    If its really not you loading overpressure and the ift itself is just fine then Id send it to LRI (or another shop of your choice) for a time and tig if it really bugs you. But the fact that it doesnt with factory ammo kind of refutes that theory.


    Watch some of these videos https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos particularly Does your die fit your chamber and Clickers

    Thank you! This illustrates exactly what is going on. When the bolt is lifted, the cam surfaces barely touch.

    If I was loading over pressure and my action was in spec, the bolt would be stiff, especially towards the top of the bolt lift when the extraction cam starts to do work.
    If I was loading overpressure with my action as-is (extraction cam not working), it would take more than a slap on the bolt handle to get the brass to extract. I’d be using a hammer and probably end up breaking the bolt handle.

    Virgin brass and factory ammo almost always extract easily. But the more times that brass is fired, the more likely it is to require a thump rearward on the bolt handle to extract. The bolt lift is always exactly the same… because the bolt lift does nothing for extraction lol

    My hypothesis is that if I can size the body of the case a little extra, I can get this rifle to function reliably without sending it off for repair. I’ll send it off eventually but I would rather wait until it needs a barrel too.
     

    SWgeezer

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    If you have small base dies, give it a try, if you don't, try overcamming the press, you can also file off the top of the shellholder as well to create the same effect as small base dies.
     

    Lunchbox27

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    I just had an issue where my 308 with match chamber wouldn’t chamber 10 or so rounds with brass that was 3 times fired.

    This was with Lapua brass and my loads were mild. Another issue (that came first) was at the top of the bolt lift, I was getting a hard click.

    Ordered a small base die and it resolved the issue.

    I tried cam’ing the fuck outta the press and still couldn’t get my standard die to size down the lower portion if the case.

    It’s worth a shot, before paying for work to the bolt.
     
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    Foul Mike

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    I have a Rem700 LA that was doing this. There was almost no cam action for primary extraction.
    My smith built the cam up a bit and that cured it.
    He told me that he had come across it several times and Rem had a period where they made some kind of production change and some actions got out before they discovered the problem and changed back.
    I would just take it to a good smith and have that done.
    I doubt it has much to do with your reloading.
     
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    A.Huggy

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    So I tested this yesterday. I loaded up 20 rounds, 10 sized with my normal full lenth die (bumped shoulder .002”), and 10 sized with my new small base die (bumped shoulder .002”).

    6/10 full length sized cases required a thump on the bolt handle to extract.

    1/10 small base sized cases required a thump to extract. It was like shooting factory ammo or virgin brass.

    Small test, but it does seem that sizing with a small base die can ease extraction.

    I’ll bump the shoulder an extra thou next time and see if I can get to 100% reliable. I understand that a small base die and more shoulder bump will shorten case life. I’ll just treat it like a gas gun and be happy with fewer firings.