Gunsmithing Remington M700 RR s/n truing

[rockin randy]

I seen a M700 for sale with a RR serial number. Seller said the RR serial numbered actions are known to not require routine trueing. I have a few RR s/n rifles, one had primary extraction issues(LRI fixed) and the other has been good from the factory. Both shoot very well for factory actions.

I’m not out to buy this action from the seller, just curious if this is true about the RR serial numbered actions?

 

[jpspeeddemon]

RR prefix began when Freedom Group acquired Remington in about 2007, which is when QA/QC went downhill for Remington. the RR actions are known to have QA/QC issues, one of the most common problems is the primary extraction, as you've experienced.

 

[rockin randy]

RR prefix began when Freedom Group acquired Remington in about 2007, which is when QA/QC went downhill for Remington. the RR actions are known to have QA/QC issues, one of the most common problems is the primary extraction, as you've experienced.

That’s what i figured. Besides the primary extraction issue I’m happy with the RR ones i have

 

[Bender830]

There is no need to true up any 700 action.

 

[rockin randy]

There is no need to true up any 700 action.

I’ve never had one done so I wouldn’t know. I guess that brings up the question of installing a new barrel on a rem 700. Is it worth true up and blue print the action. Any issues with not trueing and blue printed when installing a new barrel?

 

[Bender830]

90% of the accuracy is in the barrel. A great barrel on an untrue action will still shoot pretty great.

If I were to have a gunsmith custom fit up a shouldered barrel to the action and if it were something that I would go back to him again and again on then I might go ahead and have him do the blueprinting of the action, bolt and lug faces along with the threads and let him just reproduce the barrel to his preferred specs. But take it to another smith and he might say the original smiths work was untrue and want to do it over again himself. Gauging true can be about the machinery and smith that does the operation as much as what is actually done to the action it can seem.

But if you were just going to spin a remage on yourself I absolutely wouldn't bother with truing it. There are too many that shoot well without it. I would rather invest that money into an aftermarket action that was created true rather than trying to do it retroactively.
If I were to go this route and true it I would leave the threads untrue to still allow the remage pattern and just face the lugs, lug abutments, bolt face and action face or get one from northland that has already done these minor truing steps for 100 buck action price increase only. But its not necessary for the rifle to function.

Truing an action is refining the diminishing returns, not a bulk of what we ultimately care about so its up to you to figure how much you ultimately care about perfection in an otherwise imperfect system.

 

[RonA]

There is no need to true up any 700 action.

Ezekial the gunsmith just had a heart attack when he read that.

 

[LRI]

I seen a M700 for sale with a RR serial number. Seller said the RR serial numbered actions are known to not require routine trueing. I have a few RR s/n rifles, one had primary extraction issues(LRI fixed) and the other has been good from the factory. Both shoot very well for factory actions.

I’m not out to buy this action from the seller, just curious if this is true about the RR serial numbered actions?

After doing a few thousand of these (and that is no shit) I can tell you this:

When you have the means to use top-shelf machinery for this stuff and the ability to record machine offset values (a simple program add-in known as a DPRINT) you get to see where/how stuff moves over the course of time. Most M700's, regardless of when they were produced, tend to hover around a .017" diameter circle in terms of concentricity. Parallelism and squareness can be a bit wonky at times, but its typically quite good given the volume and price point.

The biggest issue is generally the squareness of the face and its parallelism to the receiver's lug abutment features. Threads are usually pretty good/accurate in terms of pitch. The M700 with RR prefix S/N's are saw cut on the face. They've actually been that way for some time and its impressive that Remington does as good a job as they do when you consider that they knock out upwards of 2,500 of these things per week.

By and large, the biggest issue is the Primary Extraction relationship between receiver/handle. That's where the wheels really fell off on the RR series. The culprit is that the foundry changed and the tools failed to migrate to the new one. It was overlooked and we are where we are today. I only know this because I (by chance) found the two companies that did/do the work and spoke with an application engineer.

As for how this plays out for whether or not to justify the work:

That is a personal decision. I will use hot-rodded engines for my example. The GM LS platform is a very flexible powerplant that will reward its owner with impressive gains just by bolting aftermarket performance parts to it. It's been done for 20 or so years now and the proof is in the pudding. Now, that said, the guys who are hunting hard for power still spend the money to have a block forensically inspected and machined with the hopes of producing more output than a rival with the same displacement. I would like to think that the added expense is worth the reliability, longevity, and power gain.

(I can add that it certainly does matter. Changing the bore finish on a cylinder wall can easily +/- a tenth and a half off an elapsed time in drag racing. Bore seal is efficiency and that is a big deal)

So, take that same ideology and apply it to this. You can bolt shit on and lay the hate at probably 90% of what is possible. If your pinching your coin purse to do this stuff, don't do a thing to the action, instead spend your dollars on a premium barrel fitted by someone well understood to know how to do this stuff at a high level. That will get you far further than throwing money at a receiver. It's only when you combine the two that you see the very small gains over just a barrel install.

Temper it by knowing also that you can easily overshadow performance gains based on the application of the gun. A nasty magnum in a light gun that is used to pile up a critter is a difficult gun to shoot well. By contrast, this latest trend of "6mm pellet guns" in the form of 20lb 6mm BRX's and Dashers is the polar opposite in terms of easy to build/shoot precision rifles. Low recoil and high mass makes a gun plumber look like a rock star without a whole lot of effort.

Hope this helps.


C.

 

[rockin randy]

@LongRifles Inc. thank you for the input. I had you guys fix my primary extraction issue on a RR 700 and flute the bolt, tac knob. Once the factory barrel is shot out it’ll be heading back to you guys for the whole 9 yards.

I’m a LRI fan boy. I love what you guys are doing for the industry.

 

[Waorani]

I saw

 

[LRI]

I saw

lol

 

[RemCustom6]

It doesn’t matter what prefix the action has on it, RR, S, E, A, RRX........... or no alpha prefix at all, if building a quality hunting rig, target rig, going to the moon rig......... one must always keep in mind that a Remington 700 action is never true/square coming out of the factory. EVER!!!!!! Yeah, some may be better than others but.......Always do yourself a favor and have it trued up by your smith! LRI is a leader in this practice, you will be happy you had it done. Punching steel, paper or critters, a receiver face that isn’t true to the bore can push you off target several feet at distance as compared to a trued up action. Now I don’t advocate shooting critters at distance but given the opportunity don't you want the best possible piece of equipment so that you feel confident in its abilities, let alone your abilities with it in your hands.
Just saying............

 

[moosemeat]

Not one was ever square? Not even by accident? I find that hard to believe. I would think one would have been made square and true by accident after 3 million or what ever.

 

[rockin randy]

I cant knock on the old Remington 700. They’ve always treated me good.

 

[RemCustom6]

As I stated I my post, some 700’s were/are made better than others. I’m not saying they were not made well enough to shoot well, or well enough to be an effective critter getter. I am saying that it does NOT matter what 700 you have, from the face of the action, to the threads to the lug seats to the bore........yes, at least one of those surfaces will not be square to the others, period. That is what you are (hopefully) going to pay your custom smith to do in order to ensure that from a-z, from the tang to the tip of the muzzle crown is as absolutely as straight as possible. Up until very recently, the threads in the receiver were done with a tap, yes a tap.... not single point cut with good tooling, done with a tap. Up until very recently, the receiver face was finished with a saw cut. Tell me how you can ensure that the threads are 100% square to the face of the receiver using this method. Yes, some were in fact better than other coming off the production line. I will never contest that. Do yourself a favor and have your custom gun builder true up the 700 you are building your precision/critter getter rig on. It’s more than worth it especially down range..

 

[19Scout77]

I seen that they treated you good too.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

As I stated I my post, some 700’s were/are made better than others. I’m not saying they were not made well enough to shoot well, or well enough to be an effective critter getter. I am saying that it does NOT matter what 700 you have, from the face of the action, to the threads to the lug seats to the bore........yes, at least one of those surfaces will not be square to the others, period. That is what you are (hopefully) going to pay your custom smith to do in order to ensure that from a-z, from the tang to the tip of the muzzle crown is as absolutely as straight as possible. Up until very recently, the threads in the receiver were done with a tap, yes a tap.... not single point cut with good tooling, done with a tap. Up until very recently, the receiver face was finished with a saw cut. Tell me how you can ensure that the threads are 100% square to the face of the receiver using this method. Yes, some were in fact better than other coming off the production line. I will never contest that. Do yourself a favor and have your custom gun builder true up the 700 you are building your precision/critter getter rig on. It’s more than worth it especially down range..

I think you're absolutely correct on this. I am curious, and maybe a smith or two can chime in, how square are all the surfaces on Howa and Tikka actions? I have or have had both and they are smoother actions and always shoot very well. Tikka and Howa actions and bolts always look smoother with less tooling marks than Remingtons, especially around the bolt face where Remingtons usually have sharper edges. If I had to guess, i'd say they're more square out of the box, and their still a production action, but I understand they don't produce nearly the numbers that Remington does.

 

[Eddie Patrick]

Not one was ever square? Not even by accident? I find that hard to believe. I would think one would have been made square and true by accident after 3 million or what ever.

I agree. I have 6 Rem 700 rifles, long and short action, I had them fixed so I could use any barrel I have to fit any action I had. Only 1 action was .003 out. Remington is one of the best commercial actions available.