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Gunsmithing Removing AR-10 Handguard: Revisited

R

rg1911

Gunny Sergeant
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Oct 24, 2012
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Laramie, Wyoming
The handguard is on TIGHT on my Armalite AR-10. I'm beginning to wonder if the barrel nut and handguard are a single unit. I'll call Glen at Armalite Monday.

The guard seems to be all aluminum.

7119198


The upper receiver block I received is not doing the job and I'm afraid that if I tighten it enough, I'll damage the upper.

So it looks as though I need two tools: a reaction rod (as recommended by several people), and a bigger wrench.

I looked for alternatives to the $200 Geissele rod and found these two (click to view):

Midwest Industries Upper Receiver Rod .308

AR-10 308 Reaction Bar and Barrel Vice Block Rod Tool, Blue

While I like the price on the second one, I think it's aluminum and not up for heavy stress. The one from Midwest Industries appears to be the better choice.

Thoughts?

What wrench is recommended? The strap wrench I have slips when I really apply force.

I appreciate your recommendations for the two tools. I would prefer to not have to send the assembly back to the gunsmith who built this.

Richard
 
Have you tried applying heat?

Avid tools makes a decent one, its aluminum but i imagine it could take way more than required to break a stuck nut.
 
Thank you. I have tried a heat gun. Maybe time to try a torch. I would be concerned that the parts would become hot enough to melt the strap wrench strap. It's some type of rubberized material.

I checked the Avid site and they don't show a reaction rod for the .308 size.

Richard
 
I read the description of the tool and a couple reviews, and decided that I would continue looking. I even found a way to mount it in a vise, but from the description, it would not be sturdy enough for this particular application.

Still need a suggestion for a wrench to use on the guard.

Cheers,
Richard
 
Minor update:

The handguard is aluminum, not plastic/fiberglass as I had thought, and it will wiggle back and forth just a tiny bit. Then it acts and sounds as though it has hit a mechanical stop, and I had removed the lock screw from the bottom. If the barrel nut is the thing with all the notches to let the gas tube go through and that I can just see, I am unable to detect any movement when I wiggle the guard.

Tried heating it again with a 400+ degree heat gun, but no change. Just acts as though it's blocked by a pin.

I'm beginning to get the idea that the part that looks obviously like a nut, and the rest of the tube, are two pieces, because when I apply penetrating oil to the junction, it acts as though it's seeping in.

I think I'll hold off on doing anything drastic involving cutting wheels until I can talk to Glen at Armalite Monday. Naturally, there are no installation instructions available on the Armalite site.

Cheers,
Richard
 
Spblademaker said:
View attachment 7119293

@rg1911 is this what’s on your rifle?
Click to expand...
That seems to be it, although mine has only the one screw on the bottom. So *apparently* the guard and the barrel nut are not a single unit, and I don't see any hidden stop pins.

So far, penetrating oil is not accomplishing anything. I'll add more and let it sit overnight.

BTW, what was your search string? Looking for Armalite AR10 handguard or barrel nut didn't come up with the Armslist post.

Thank you,
Richard
 
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Looks like once you remove the set screws, the hand guard should slide outwards, as it’s not threaded. Take the screws off. Stick it in the freezer for the night. Put the upper in a vice and pull the hand guard off. Possibly use a strap wrench to break it free of the inner sleeve it rides on.
 
If it's like this one, you can only unscrew the rear band. The hand guard is locked to the barrel nut.

IMG_0387.jpg
IMG_0388.jpg
 
Waorani said:
If it's like this one, you can only unscrew the rear band. The hand guard is locked to the barrel nut.

View attachment 7119342View attachment 7119343
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clear images.

If mine has a protruding pin like the handguard you're showing (which does look like the one on the picture of the AR-15[T]), it would explain the feeling of a mechanical stop.

Unfortunately, nothing is unscrewing, pulling out, etc.

If the rear band is the grooved ring at the far right in the first image, it's not budging.

Cheers,
Richard
 
Came off about a 15-yr old AR10. Never had any Armalite AR15s, only 10s

Yep, loosen rear nut/band toward receiver.
 
WhiteDingo said:
You'll need to loosen the nut toward the receiver to pull the handguard, as pictured.
Click to expand...
So the grooved ring needs to be turned clockwise, as though I were tightening it? There's less than a 64th of an inch clearance between the back of that ring and the front of the receiver.

Thank you,
Richard
 
When I found it a few hours ago, I couldn't unscrew by hand. Clamped rear band in padded vise and still couldn't get to budge so figured threadlock residue. Picked up again a little while ago and it unscrewed w/o resistance - no threadlock.

It's standard right hand thread. If looking at it from firing position it would turn CCW, if from the barrel, CW. As it loosens the hand guard can slide forward so no additional clearance needed. If it is like the one I posted, you'll have an ah ha moment.
 
Waorani said:
When I found it a few hours ago, I couldn't unscrew by hand. Clamped rear band in padded vise and still couldn't get to budge so figured threadlock residue. Picked up again a little while ago and it unscrewed w/o resistance - no threadlock.

It's standard right hand thread. If looking at it from firing position it would turn CCW, if from the barrel, CW. As it loosens the hand guard can slide forward so no additional clearance needed. If it is like the one I posted, you'll have an ah ha moment.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Viewing the rear band from the front, I attempted to turn it CW. It didn't budge. Like you, I'll let it sit a while. (The receiver is in a fixture so I can grab the rear band with the strap wrench.)

So basically the rear band remains stationary (except for turning it), thereby pushing the long front tube out. This would explain how the pin in the front tube lines up so nicely with one of the holes in the barrel nut.

Thank you,
Richard
 
Maybe try tapping w/ plastic hammer around the rear band to help crack loose. If someone did put threadlock on it you might be screwed given the amount of thread area. Again, all of this assumes yours is like mine.
 
Waorani said:
Maybe try tapping w/ plastic hammer around the rear band to help crack loose. If someone did put threadlock on it you might be screwed given the amount of thread area. Again, all of this assumes yours is like mine.
Click to expand...
Will do. I talked to the 'smith and he does not remember using loctite on these parts. (With that pin locking it into the firmly torqued barrel ring, there really would have been no need to use loctite.)

Cheers,
Richard
 
As though tightening it, correct. It will move the handguard outward from the receiver until the threads are no longer engaged and you can pull it. They can be a pain, I tore a strap wrench years ago trying to get one free. Heat helped some.

rg1911 said:
So the grooved ring needs to be turned clockwise, as though I were tightening it? There's less than a 64th of an inch clearance between the back of that ring and the front of the receiver.

Thank you,
Richard
Click to expand...
 
WhiteDingo said:
As though tightening it, correct. It will move the handguard outward from the receiver until the threads are no longer engaged and you can pull it. They can be a pain, I tore a strap wrench years ago trying to get one free. Heat helped some.
Click to expand...
I'll try tapping it, as was suggested, and more heat. If I get the bloody thing off, it'll go back on with a coating of anti-seize.

Thank you,
Richard
 
There's a heavy duty red cast aluminum handle strap wrench I got that uses a kevlar or firehose material or something that's much stronger than run of the mill. It was expensive and a higher end tool, all they had at the time, but I lucked out really because you can't break it. But one of the things you can do with it is to thread it through and pull the strap tight and when you turn the handle, it'll stretch some and "cam" over until it sorta locks and the curved end of that wrench fits these tube nuts like they were made for it. Or you can even use it backwards and cam it that way for even more torque. Then it's more or less like a wrench handle attached to that nut. If that won't remove it, then you've got something else going on like threadlocker or possibly seized parts.

I use similar handguards, KAC stuff and I have a PRI tube, and they can go on pretty tight if you have this wrench to install it with.

A reaction rod is just nice to have IF you have enough rifles you assemble or work on to make it worth it. Otherwise I'd just look into borrowing one from a guy on here or maybe visiting a member if there's one close to you that has one if you end up needing one. I have one for AR's but I work on and assembled several. I don't have one for the SR25 I have, though it'd be nice. Just can't justify the cost. And yeah, you want a steel one for SURE. The Geissele rod is really nice FWIW, a solid tool. Look for 'em on sale.

You can always take two pieces of wood, maybe even use two pieces of leather over it as well, and clamp the lower sideways in the vice. This works well and will hold it tighter than a clamshell will. Just be careful to not overtighten the upper in the vice when you do it because it's not really necessary, just needs to be snug and not slip. I've done this before and it's what I always do with VLTOR uppers or others that don't fit a clamshell and the reaction rod isn't handy or necessary.

Good luck!

PS, there are solvents that will dissolve threadlocker if it was used. Assuming Rocksett wasn't used, in which case soaking in water is needed. But I can't imagine anyone using thread locker on a handguard, let alone Rocksett of all things. I bet it's just really tight, possibly seized, and if it was tightened with my wrench for example, there's no way you can remove it with yours. Anti seize, lithium grease or just a quality lube, preferably a gun grease like TW25B (which I like to use) works best on AR assembly. Wanna say the manual calls for lithium grease.
 
Success!

It took a combination of the heat gun and hitting it with a plastic hammer to finally break it free. It fought me the whole way. I have the exact setup of which Waorani sent pictures.

I'm not sure what is is, but something filled several threads and had hardened to a solid. Took me more than an hour to cut and chip it out.

It is something of a Pyrrhic victory; the ejection port cover pin I want to replace with one that is the correct length can't come out without removing the barrel nut. I don't have the tools for that, and I'm not sure the local 'smith does. There don't seem to be a lot of .308-size ARs in town.

None-the-less, it was a good learning experience.

I would like to thank everyone for pointing me in the right direction (and telling me in which direction the ring needed to be turned, and to use more heat and a hammer).

Cheers,
Richard
 
Good to hear. It's been years, so not sure what barrel nut wrench I used but vaguely remember needing an Armalite specific wrench.
 
Waorani said:
Good to hear. It's been years, so not sure what barrel nut wrench I used but vaguely remember needing an Armalite specific wrench.
Click to expand...
I think you're right.

I'll have to see how much Armalite wants for one, assuming, of course, that it's in stock. So many items aren't. I've been waiting a couple months for a replacement bolt stop. It's always "should be this week," but it never is. Very friendly, but the inventory control is remarkably bad.

Cheers,
Richard
 
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