Reproduction Scopes

[Dsparil]

a little eccentric concept here I'd been thinking of is a company like US optics making reproduction scopes with the exact external appearance of the old World War 2 German scopes but with new precision reticles to make hold-over way easier and also allow them to be purchased with custom power settings. i.e. an exact copy of the old 4x German scope but with 10x magnification and say a pcmoa reticle so that people who want a blast from the past( pun intended =) ) but with the ease of modern shooting and calculations rather than having to simply guess for drop.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

my bet is that there are already repos out there for the airsoft crowd....seen 'em in a Japanese gun porn magazine already.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

lol yup I'm sure. Now how about the real gun crowd?

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

There are a couple of repros around - Numrich sell/distribute a version of the British No32 scopes for the Enfield No4(T) and there are some Russian made versions fo the Zeiss Zielvier always up on Ebay.

Would be way cool if there was a way of maintaining the external dimensions with updated internals and lenses to up the magnification.......

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

yeah that's pretty much the idea. I look at the old Unertl that US Optics started making and was thinking you know if they can do that, why can't we take a similar route with the older scopes.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

If you look at what NF did with the 2.5-10x24 or SuB do with the x8 Short Dot....you'd have thought there should be a way of doing something within the original dimensions?

The NF Compact is almost exactly the same dims as the No32 (except for being a 30mm tube, not 1") so a fixed mag x10 should be a breeze!!

The only problem on the old Zeiss ZF39 is no windage adjustment......

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

There would have to be a market, and that market is being flooded by the knock-off's - they are cheap on e-bay.

However there are also a LOT of these older scopes running around.

AS for power etc, I rather like the reticle and 4x of them - they were still good out to some distance.

I'm just trying to figure out hte differences between the ZF 39,41 and 42...

 

[ORD]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

I am sure there is a market for them, but as with everything in life...it just depends. You have to get the quality/reliability down while also not hitting a price point that gets you out in the middle of left field alienating all but a few buyers. There are plenty of examples of companies failing on quality, but getting the price low, but none actually offer both value and quality. (i.e. - take the Gibbs M84 and M73B1 scopes...decent price, but crap for quality...especially the M73B1 scopes which have reversed elevation/windage adjustments, fair-at-best glass, etc., etc.).

Build it good and build it reasonably priced and they will come for them in droves!

Now, as for upgraded reticles, etc...well I don't know that I'd be up for all that, but certainly externally identical repros with better glass, adjustments, etc. would be welcome!

 

[Northland]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

Or the 8x unertl for the 1903's.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

personally I'd like to see the 8x Zeiss Zielacht set with an mdmoa style reticle for modern day shooting. I honestly think a lot of rifles are capable of more precision than they're given credit for.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

I think that a flood of repro scopes with new guts would raise issues in certain areas of competition.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that a flood of repro scopes with new guts would raise issues in certain areas of competition. </div></div>


Like what precisely?

 

[armydog]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that a flood of repro scopes with new guts would raise issues in certain areas of competition. </div></div>


Like what precisely? </div></div>


Right, like what precisely? CMP has a list of authorised scopes, cheat and get disqualified, that simple. if you have a Japanese rifle you have no option but to use an original, and getting some of the Lyman A5's or 5A's I forget, for a Marine 03 Sniper can be expensive and its still a 70 year old scope, as long as it meets spec's of the original I see no problem.

 

[ORD]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that a flood of repro scopes with new guts would raise issues in certain areas of competition. </div></div>


Like what precisely? </div></div>

Reproduction scopes are specifically PERMITTED under the CMP rules for competitions like the Vintage Sniper Rifle matches with certain limitations. Getting "in trouble" with using a reproduction scope will only be if you alter it beyond what the rules permit. Here is the specific language from the rules relating to optics:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMP Rule Book, Rule 6.4.3(6)</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(6) Sights must be original issue optical sights with as-issued reticles or
sights may be commercial replicas of as-issued optical sights. In addition,
specific non-issue scopes that are listed in Table I may be used. Such
non-issue scopes may only be used on the rifles for which they are specifically listed. Replica or non-issue sights may have only crosshair, post
or post with crosshair reticles. Scope mounts and rings may be original or
reproduction replicas. Scope rings may be sleeved or modifi ed to accept
a non-original scope diameter.
</div></div>

Also, since these are "new" rules in terms of the VSR matches, etc., the rules are still going to be open to interpretation/clarification as to what lengths can be gone to in terms of reproduction scopes, improvements on the "guts" of those scopes aside from keeping the OEM reticles, etc., without breaking the rules.

Now, if you aren't going to compete with the rifle in sanctioned matches and you just want the best scope possible, but one that appears "original" then upgraded reticles, etc. would certainly be nice...just not for comps where they would be specifically excluded.

 

[gunnergirl81]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

Watch Gibbs. While yes, the first M73G1 was not a sucess and fell far short of the original Weaver 330/M73B1 (how they did that I don't know). Val stated recently that they we're going to switch up and get Leatherwood to make a US made reproduction of the 330. That should get interesting, we'll just have to see what the price tag is.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that a flood of repro scopes with new guts would raise issues in certain areas of competition. </div></div>


Like what precisely? </div></div>

Reproduction scopes are specifically PERMITTED under the CMP rules for competitions like the Vintage Sniper Rifle matches with certain limitations. Getting "in trouble" with using a reproduction scope will only be if you alter it beyond what the rules permit. Here is the specific language from the rules relating to optics:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMP Rule Book, Rule 6.4.3(6)</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
(6) Sights must be original issue optical sights with as-issued reticles or
sights may be commercial replicas of as-issued optical sights. In addition,
specific non-issue scopes that are listed in Table I may be used. Such
non-issue scopes may only be used on the rifles for which they are specifically listed. Replica or non-issue sights may have only crosshair, post
or post with crosshair reticles. Scope mounts and rings may be original or
reproduction replicas. Scope rings may be sleeved or modifi ed to accept
a non-original scope diameter.
</div></div>

Also, since these are "new" rules in terms of the VSR matches, etc., the rules are still going to be open to interpretation/clarification as to what lengths can be gone to in terms of reproduction scopes, improvements on the "guts" of those scopes aside from keeping the OEM reticles, etc., without breaking the rules.

Now, if you aren't going to compete with the rifle in sanctioned matches and you just want the best scope possible, but one that appears "original" then upgraded reticles, etc. would certainly be nice...just not for comps where they would be specifically excluded. </div></div>


I still don't see the problem. Looks like it's going to be up to people actually be HONEST and practice a little dignity and abide by the rules. God forbid we all be honest. And yeah I know you're just the messenger

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

I have to say that the experience my smith had with his imported Gibbs 1903A4 was an example of how NOT to make a replica firearm...i.e to a budget and using crap parts.

If you want to read up on his experiences and what he had to do to put things right go to www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk and read the entry under the Technical Notes Section

Seems like the whole thing was a disaster, not just the scope.

On that basis, I would'nt hold my breath on anything they may be involved in......

 

[DV]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to say that the experience my smith had with his imported Gibbs 1903A4 was an example of how NOT to make a replica firearm...i.e to a budget and using crap parts.

If you want to read up on his experiences and what he had to do to put things right go to www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk and read the entry under the Technical Notes Section

Seems like the whole thing was a disaster, not just the scope.

On that basis, I would'nt hold my breath on anything they may be involved in...... </div></div>

Well, knowing that Gibb`s is/was using recovered drill rifle receivers and parts, with scopes, mounts, stocks, etc. made in China didn`t fill me with much hope that the rifles would be worth the money.
They are going for around $1000.00 in the USA and I thought that was overpriced for what the end product would likely turn out to be.
Looks like that review proved me right. Too bad as the Gibb`s rifle certainly sounds like a good idea, just poorly brought forth.

As a side note, it was noted on the CMP forum that Gibb`s is working up a copy of the U.S.M.C. 8x Unertl external adjustment scope- from the threads on the subject it would seem that Gibb`s is looking to provide rifles and optics to the CMP sniper match shooters.

 

[samnev]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to say that the experience my smith had with his imported Gibbs 1903A4 was an example of how NOT to make a replica firearm...i.e to a budget and using crap parts.

If you want to read up on his experiences and what he had to do to put things right go to www.thamesvalleyguns.co.uk and read the entry under the Technical Notes Section. Seems like the whole thing was a disaster, not just the scope. On that basis, I would'nt hold my breath on anything they maybe involved in...... </div></div>



One of the guys I shoot with bought a 1st generation Gibbs and it was not a pleasant experience.The scope wouldn't zero or track and the reticle fell apart after 50 or so rounds.

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Reproduction Scopes

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet:

There is a limited edition of Lyman Alaskan repros out there, done by leupold a few years back. They are quite rare though, i've never seen one in person.

Though if that was what I wanted I'd just buy a real one on eBay...