I'm interested in learning all about the snipers of the Revolutionary and Civil war, and the weapons they used. What would be a good source of this info? I've googled it but haven't had much luck. If anybody enjoys talking about this topic, let's have at it!
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Were there even such things as snipers at that time, or were there just guys who were REALLY good hunters and marksmen?
If I recall correctly from a History Channel show about the Revolutionary War, American marksmen shooting from concealed locations, picking off British officers, were considered dishonorable combatants.
I'd call them smarter than average, since your typical "honorable" battle those days was to line up and shoot at each other from 100 yards. haha
Were there even such things as snipers at that time, or were there just guys who were REALLY good hunters and marksmen?
If I recall correctly from a History Channel show about the Revolutionary War, American marksmen shooting from concealed locations, picking off British officers, were considered dishonorable combatants.
I'd call them smarter than average, since your typical "honorable" battle those days was to line up and shoot at each other from 100 yards. haha
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
American Rifleman magazine (from the NRA) has a good article about this very subject in the current issue.
And methinks you didn't Google much, or you don't know how to use keywords. Google for "civil war sniper rifles", and start reading.
American Rifleman magazine (from the NRA) has a good article about this very subject in the current issue.
And methinks you didn't Google much, or you don't know how to use keywords. Google for "civil war sniper rifles", and start reading.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Gewgaw said:
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Way back when I fell into the trap known as The Military Book Club, I picked up a book called "Confederate Scout Sniper." This was apparently cobbled together by the descendants of the hero of the book from letters home and stories, etc. It is a pretty good read.
During the Revolution, the colonial marksmen who specifically targeted officers were considered war criminals by the British as such practice violated various conventions of war in effect at the time. Unfortunately, we poor colonials hadn't signed on to any such conventions and did not feel obliged to follow same.
During the War of Northern Aggression, both sides employed snipers to great effect. Col. Berdan of the Yankee army recruited experienced riflemen and armed them with the relatively new Sharps breechloaders. These snipers were the first "Sharps shooters" and the originators of that term. The Confederacy also employed snipers and armed them with whatever was available. This could range from a good Tennessee "poor boy Mountain Rifle" to custom target muzzleloaders with false muzzles. Toward the end of the war, blockade-runners were able to get some Whitworth rifles to the CSA. These were long range "smallbores" (.451 caliber) featuring the Whitworth pattern fast twist rifling and heavy bullets. The rifles proved to be very accurate at long range, but arrived too late to make much of a difference.
I seem to remember this site: http://www.lrml.org/ having an article or two on the use of Whitworth rifles for dedicated sniping - or maybe it has links to such articles from other sources.
Lots of information out there if you keep digging.
Way back when I fell into the trap known as The Military Book Club, I picked up a book called "Confederate Scout Sniper." This was apparently cobbled together by the descendants of the hero of the book from letters home and stories, etc. It is a pretty good read.
During the Revolution, the colonial marksmen who specifically targeted officers were considered war criminals by the British as such practice violated various conventions of war in effect at the time. Unfortunately, we poor colonials hadn't signed on to any such conventions and did not feel obliged to follow same.
During the War of Northern Aggression, both sides employed snipers to great effect. Col. Berdan of the Yankee army recruited experienced riflemen and armed them with the relatively new Sharps breechloaders. These snipers were the first "Sharps shooters" and the originators of that term. The Confederacy also employed snipers and armed them with whatever was available. This could range from a good Tennessee "poor boy Mountain Rifle" to custom target muzzleloaders with false muzzles. Toward the end of the war, blockade-runners were able to get some Whitworth rifles to the CSA. These were long range "smallbores" (.451 caliber) featuring the Whitworth pattern fast twist rifling and heavy bullets. The rifles proved to be very accurate at long range, but arrived too late to make much of a difference.
I seem to remember this site: http://www.lrml.org/ having an article or two on the use of Whitworth rifles for dedicated sniping - or maybe it has links to such articles from other sources.
Lots of information out there if you keep digging.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
The snipers from the Revolution were usually militia if memory serves. Their weapons were their personal weapons and were rifled as opposed to the smooth-bore Muskets the regular troops used. Far better accuracy. They weren't very well thought of because there was honor in warfare back then and troops would line up across from eachother and blast away in an open field. Anyone who would hide in the woods and pick-off officers was considered a scoundrel and a criminal. Not even well thought of by their own side!
During the Civil War snipers were more officially deployed by both sides. An officer by the name of Colonel Hiram Berdan was in charge of the Northern Snipers. I believe they were issued Sharps Rifles mostly. I think they wore Green uniforms. The South used other Heavy Barreled target rifles from the period. One of the more famous Sniper Rifles for the South was the Whitworth Rifle. There was a replica available some years ago. It came with a bullet mold because of the unusual shape of the Whitworth Bullet.
The Sharpshooters or "Snipers" for both sides were known as "Skirmishers" and would deploy in front of the main force and hide... waiting for an opportunity to take out an Officer. FWIW
The snipers from the Revolution were usually militia if memory serves. Their weapons were their personal weapons and were rifled as opposed to the smooth-bore Muskets the regular troops used. Far better accuracy. They weren't very well thought of because there was honor in warfare back then and troops would line up across from eachother and blast away in an open field. Anyone who would hide in the woods and pick-off officers was considered a scoundrel and a criminal. Not even well thought of by their own side!
During the Civil War snipers were more officially deployed by both sides. An officer by the name of Colonel Hiram Berdan was in charge of the Northern Snipers. I believe they were issued Sharps Rifles mostly. I think they wore Green uniforms. The South used other Heavy Barreled target rifles from the period. One of the more famous Sniper Rifles for the South was the Whitworth Rifle. There was a replica available some years ago. It came with a bullet mold because of the unusual shape of the Whitworth Bullet.
The Sharpshooters or "Snipers" for both sides were known as "Skirmishers" and would deploy in front of the main force and hide... waiting for an opportunity to take out an Officer. FWIW
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I recall correctly from a History Channel show about the Revolutionary War, American marksmen shooting from concealed locations, picking off British officers, were considered dishonorable combatants.</div></div>
By whom, the Brits? </div></div>
See oneshot's reply above -- they were loathed by the British (probably because they were effective at terrorizing British officers), but even some Americans thought that hiding and shooting from concealment was unbefitting an "honorable" soldier.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I recall correctly from a History Channel show about the Revolutionary War, American marksmen shooting from concealed locations, picking off British officers, were considered dishonorable combatants.</div></div>
By whom, the Brits? </div></div>
See oneshot's reply above -- they were loathed by the British (probably because they were effective at terrorizing British officers), but even some Americans thought that hiding and shooting from concealment was unbefitting an "honorable" soldier.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Hell, My Brother was a Fleet Marine back in the 80's and he felt then and still feels Snipers are "gutless Chicken-shits".... (Disclaimer)....He's my brother and as such I respect his opinion BUT COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE!!!
Hell, My Brother was a Fleet Marine back in the 80's and he felt then and still feels Snipers are "gutless Chicken-shits".... (Disclaimer)....He's my brother and as such I respect his opinion BUT COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE!!!
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"gutless Chicken-shits" </div></div>
HA HA! that is funniest thing I read all morning! That's great. If your brother thinks that about snipers, I would love to hear what he thinks about Predator drone pilots!!!!
But back to the topic (and not meaning to hijack the thread!)... the UK-made Whitworth rifle used by the Confederacy is pretty amazing, even by today's standards. Not only did it have polygonal rifling, the BULLET itself was polygonal!
http://www.johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
Anyone know about the optics they used in the Civil War?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"gutless Chicken-shits" </div></div>
HA HA! that is funniest thing I read all morning! That's great.
But back to the topic (and not meaning to hijack the thread!)... the UK-made Whitworth rifle used by the Confederacy is pretty amazing, even by today's standards. Not only did it have polygonal rifling, the BULLET itself was polygonal!
http://www.johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
Anyone know about the optics they used in the Civil War?
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
I can't even imagine... I'll have to ask him.
I can't even imagine... I'll have to ask him.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
We must also consider the minie ball, invented prior to the Civil War. This, along with the breechloader, rifled barrels and smokeless powder really brought battlefield accuracy to the forefront. There are several accounts of soldiers connecting with opposing forces out to 300+ yards.
We must also consider the minie ball, invented prior to the Civil War. This, along with the breechloader, rifled barrels and smokeless powder really brought battlefield accuracy to the forefront. There are several accounts of soldiers connecting with opposing forces out to 300+ yards.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Optics/scopes were used some in the Civil War. If memory serves, Berdan actually designed a scope that could have been used. Basically though they were not that reliable. Most were brass tubes with lenses of moderate magnification. Strictly external adjustments and that with varying degrees of success. The biggest problem was that they weren't sealed or nitrogen filled, so they had a tendency to fog.
The military rifles had pretty good iron sights of the "ladder" style that were barrel mounted. Target sights of the day were usually a vernier tang sight rear and a globe front - again if memory serves, these were available as an option on the Sharps and possibly for the Whitworths.
Optics/scopes were used some in the Civil War. If memory serves, Berdan actually designed a scope that could have been used. Basically though they were not that reliable. Most were brass tubes with lenses of moderate magnification. Strictly external adjustments and that with varying degrees of success. The biggest problem was that they weren't sealed or nitrogen filled, so they had a tendency to fog.
The military rifles had pretty good iron sights of the "ladder" style that were barrel mounted. Target sights of the day were usually a vernier tang sight rear and a globe front - again if memory serves, these were available as an option on the Sharps and possibly for the Whitworths.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Riflemen were a part of the Revolutionary army and were not really "snipers" as the term was used in WW One, Two and forward. In the Civil war, there were long range marksmen, some with scoped rifles BUT they did not usually have the camo, cover and stalking skills of todays' sniper. Simply put, they shot people at long range because they had superior equipment and shooting skills in an era when 50 yards was a long shot. In WW I & II, by contrast, the average well trained infantryman was trained out to 300 yards, or more, and could be effective at that range. Given this reality, the use of camo, cover and stalking became much more important than in the past. The major breakthroughs were pioneered by the Germans in WW I and quickly followed up by the Brits and us. Every sniping fan's library should have this book as it details the growth of sniping as we know it today. PM me if you want one.
Riflemen were a part of the Revolutionary army and were not really "snipers" as the term was used in WW One, Two and forward. In the Civil war, there were long range marksmen, some with scoped rifles BUT they did not usually have the camo, cover and stalking skills of todays' sniper. Simply put, they shot people at long range because they had superior equipment and shooting skills in an era when 50 yards was a long shot. In WW I & II, by contrast, the average well trained infantryman was trained out to 300 yards, or more, and could be effective at that range. Given this reality, the use of camo, cover and stalking became much more important than in the past. The major breakthroughs were pioneered by the Germans in WW I and quickly followed up by the Brits and us. Every sniping fan's library should have this book as it details the growth of sniping as we know it today. PM me if you want one.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
One such Rifleman from the first day of the Revolutionary war April 19, 1775 was 55 year old Hezekiah Wyman. In fact, this was his birthday. Of course his wife told him he was too old to fight. And, of course, he ignored her. He became highly visible and highly feared. A tall man, riding his white horse with his long gray hair flowing behind him in the wind, he delivered death to the King’s army. In fact, they called him DEATH. They knew that whenever he appeared, someone would die. He would ride within range of his long rifle, but out of range of the Regulars’ muskets, lay his rifle across his saddle, squeeze off a shot and ride off to repeat the process again and again. Can you imagine being one of the Regulars? And every time you saw him you would wonder if you were his target this time?
The regulars used a Brown Bess musket .75 caliber and loaded a .71 caliber ball in it. This was for faster loading on the battlefield but accuracy was at best 80 yards much farther and you had just as well be shooting a mile. The regulars also did not have the order for "aim" they had "present" and "fire" . The malitia they actually practiced marksmanship and they had the command "take sight" and "fire" . They aimed for the British officers because they knew they could hit them.
Another Rifleman was seventy-eight years old, and crippled, Samuel Whittemore, from the village of Metonomy, was an old soldier who earlier had been a commander of dragoons for the Crown. He grabbed a musket, two pistols and his old cavalry saber and told his wife he was going uptown to meet the Regulars. He took a position behind a stone wall 150 yards from the road. He got off five shots with such speed and accuracy that a detachment was sent after him. He killed one of the soldiers with his rifle, two more with his pistols and was reaching for his saber when he was shot in the face and then bayoneted 13 times. They left him for dead.
Indeed he did die, but it was 18 years later at the age of 96.
Want to know more of how Riflemen and marksmanship played a role in winning our countrys freedom? Who fired the first shot and how we know? Attend an Appleseed event and learn some marksmanship skills and history. You will not regret it I am sure.
One such Rifleman from the first day of the Revolutionary war April 19, 1775 was 55 year old Hezekiah Wyman. In fact, this was his birthday. Of course his wife told him he was too old to fight. And, of course, he ignored her. He became highly visible and highly feared. A tall man, riding his white horse with his long gray hair flowing behind him in the wind, he delivered death to the King’s army. In fact, they called him DEATH. They knew that whenever he appeared, someone would die. He would ride within range of his long rifle, but out of range of the Regulars’ muskets, lay his rifle across his saddle, squeeze off a shot and ride off to repeat the process again and again. Can you imagine being one of the Regulars? And every time you saw him you would wonder if you were his target this time?
The regulars used a Brown Bess musket .75 caliber and loaded a .71 caliber ball in it. This was for faster loading on the battlefield but accuracy was at best 80 yards much farther and you had just as well be shooting a mile. The regulars also did not have the order for "aim" they had "present" and "fire" . The malitia they actually practiced marksmanship and they had the command "take sight" and "fire" . They aimed for the British officers because they knew they could hit them.
Another Rifleman was seventy-eight years old, and crippled, Samuel Whittemore, from the village of Metonomy, was an old soldier who earlier had been a commander of dragoons for the Crown. He grabbed a musket, two pistols and his old cavalry saber and told his wife he was going uptown to meet the Regulars. He took a position behind a stone wall 150 yards from the road. He got off five shots with such speed and accuracy that a detachment was sent after him. He killed one of the soldiers with his rifle, two more with his pistols and was reaching for his saber when he was shot in the face and then bayoneted 13 times. They left him for dead.
Indeed he did die, but it was 18 years later at the age of 96.
Want to know more of how Riflemen and marksmanship played a role in winning our countrys freedom? Who fired the first shot and how we know? Attend an Appleseed event and learn some marksmanship skills and history. You will not regret it I am sure.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Plasmech. The definitive book on precision marksmen for those periods is still in the works.
I just completed reading the draft and it is beyond remarkable. There is so much information to take in, all footnoted to primary and some secondary sources, that I found myself taking several hours just to read a re-read each of the stories. It will be THE book on early riflemen, and other books could spin off from nearly any chapter.
The author, a californian, really put his heart and soul into this effort but I promised to remain quiet until after it was printed. I'll post a big review here when I am allowed to.
Seriously, it was getting to the point where I seldom watched TV when I could turn on the reading light and enjoy this book.
Except for Glenn Beck. I never miss my favorite program.
Plasmech. The definitive book on precision marksmen for those periods is still in the works.
I just completed reading the draft and it is beyond remarkable. There is so much information to take in, all footnoted to primary and some secondary sources, that I found myself taking several hours just to read a re-read each of the stories. It will be THE book on early riflemen, and other books could spin off from nearly any chapter.
The author, a californian, really put his heart and soul into this effort but I promised to remain quiet until after it was printed. I'll post a big review here when I am allowed to.
Seriously, it was getting to the point where I seldom watched TV when I could turn on the reading light and enjoy this book.
Except for Glenn Beck. I never miss my favorite program.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
From http://www.revolutionarywararchives.org/longrifle.html
The Loyalist Bradford brothers, Philadelphia printers, wrote the following story which appeared in the London Chronicle on August 17, 1775: "This province has raised 1,000 riflemen, the worst of whom will put a ball into a man's head at a distance of 150 or 200 yards, therefore advise your officers who shall hereafter come out to America to settle their affairs in England before their departure".
Look here for Civil War Sharpshooter Rifles:
http://pages.prodigy.net/richsim/target_scopes.htm
From http://www.revolutionarywararchives.org/longrifle.html
The Loyalist Bradford brothers, Philadelphia printers, wrote the following story which appeared in the London Chronicle on August 17, 1775: "This province has raised 1,000 riflemen, the worst of whom will put a ball into a man's head at a distance of 150 or 200 yards, therefore advise your officers who shall hereafter come out to America to settle their affairs in England before their departure".
Look here for Civil War Sharpshooter Rifles:
http://pages.prodigy.net/richsim/target_scopes.htm
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
For Civil War Union information Google:
Hiram Berdan
Berdan's Sharpshooters
1st USSS
2nd USSS
Truman Head
M1859 Sharps Rifle
Sharpshooter was a term liberally used during the War but the 1st United States Sharpshooters and 2nd United States Sharpshooters were generally thought of as "snipers". Each Regiment's 10 companies were generally broken up and assigned throughout the Army. They were used often as scouts and "skirmishers" ... and were often tasked with the elimination of officers, nco's, artillerymen and opposing marksmen. Each man was outfitted with M1859 Sharps rifles ordered with dual set triggers. Each company was issued one "heavy" target rifle... generally .45 cal and scoped.
Confederate sharpshooters generally used what they were issued, often the M1853 Enfield. But the Confederate Gov't purchased a number of British Whitworth sniping rifles and these were deadly at long range. Confederate Sharpshooter's Rifles
USSS Pvt Truman Head, aka California Joe, was legendary for his marksmanship... documented kills believed to be in excess of 1000 yards. He once was summoned to take out a Confederate officer who was acting as an artillery spotter in a second floor window. When asked if he could hit the officer at 800 yards he took his heavy rifle and asked... "Which button do you want me to hit ?" .... dropped the guy with one shot.
Interestingly, the USSS uniform was the first designed for camoflage. It was forest green with black rubber buttons... not the baby blue trousers and dark blue with brass button coats of the infantry.
For Civil War Union information Google:
Hiram Berdan
Berdan's Sharpshooters
1st USSS
2nd USSS
Truman Head
M1859 Sharps Rifle
Sharpshooter was a term liberally used during the War but the 1st United States Sharpshooters and 2nd United States Sharpshooters were generally thought of as "snipers". Each Regiment's 10 companies were generally broken up and assigned throughout the Army. They were used often as scouts and "skirmishers" ... and were often tasked with the elimination of officers, nco's, artillerymen and opposing marksmen. Each man was outfitted with M1859 Sharps rifles ordered with dual set triggers. Each company was issued one "heavy" target rifle... generally .45 cal and scoped.
Confederate sharpshooters generally used what they were issued, often the M1853 Enfield. But the Confederate Gov't purchased a number of British Whitworth sniping rifles and these were deadly at long range. Confederate Sharpshooter's Rifles
USSS Pvt Truman Head, aka California Joe, was legendary for his marksmanship... documented kills believed to be in excess of 1000 yards. He once was summoned to take out a Confederate officer who was acting as an artillery spotter in a second floor window. When asked if he could hit the officer at 800 yards he took his heavy rifle and asked... "Which button do you want me to hit ?" .... dropped the guy with one shot.
Interestingly, the USSS uniform was the first designed for camoflage. It was forest green with black rubber buttons... not the baby blue trousers and dark blue with brass button coats of the infantry.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Plasmech.
I enjoy the topic as well. Those are good searches. The internet is chock full if you are creative in your searching. And, there are a lot of good people here with a varied background so you'll probably see all types of reading pop up.
The Kentucky Rifle
American Longrifle
Revolution
Berdan
Plasmech.
I enjoy the topic as well. Those are good searches. The internet is chock full if you are creative in your searching. And, there are a lot of good people here with a varied background so you'll probably see all types of reading pop up.
The Kentucky Rifle
American Longrifle
Revolution
Berdan
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Typical scoped Morgan James false muzzle rifle which could/would have been used by either side during the war of Northern Aggression.
I really love these things.
Typical scoped Morgan James false muzzle rifle which could/would have been used by either side during the war of Northern Aggression.
I really love these things.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
There is a confederate sniper rifle in the 45th infantry museum here in OKC. If I remember the story correctly, it is german and there were 7 sent over. The guy who had this one took it home after the war, and it made it's way to our museum. I don't know when I can get over there to take pictures for you guys but I will see if I can this week. Don't hold me to the German thing though; it was a long time ago when I was there. I do remember that the scope on it didn't look like anything I have seen in this thread.
Stand by for update.
There is a confederate sniper rifle in the 45th infantry museum here in OKC. If I remember the story correctly, it is german and there were 7 sent over. The guy who had this one took it home after the war, and it made it's way to our museum. I don't know when I can get over there to take pictures for you guys but I will see if I can this week. Don't hold me to the German thing though; it was a long time ago when I was there. I do remember that the scope on it didn't look like anything I have seen in this thread.
Stand by for update.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
i used to be very big into 18th century reenacting.
this would be a typical gun that your 18th century woodsmen and/or riflemen would of carried.
This is a copy of the johannes faber rifle... built by eric kettenburg. (http://www.erickettenburg.com/Home.html)
dating as early as 1740 (,most likely 1760's) from virginia. entirely hand built, (except for hte barrel and lock, which he can handforge but you are talking $$$$$, yes in the 5 digits) down to hand filed and tapped screws and bolts. it was built for me around 2000. i had to wait 4 years. cost me a little under 2K, the same gun now he is building for 7-9K depending on decoration and antiquing. probably the best gun investment i'll ever make.
this is also a gun built for me by mike brooks. .66 cal fowler (smoothbore)
http://www.fowlingguns.com/pennfowler1.html
i used to be very big into 18th century reenacting.
this would be a typical gun that your 18th century woodsmen and/or riflemen would of carried.
This is a copy of the johannes faber rifle... built by eric kettenburg. (http://www.erickettenburg.com/Home.html)
dating as early as 1740 (,most likely 1760's) from virginia. entirely hand built, (except for hte barrel and lock, which he can handforge but you are talking $$$$$, yes in the 5 digits) down to hand filed and tapped screws and bolts. it was built for me around 2000. i had to wait 4 years. cost me a little under 2K, the same gun now he is building for 7-9K depending on decoration and antiquing. probably the best gun investment i'll ever make.
this is also a gun built for me by mike brooks. .66 cal fowler (smoothbore)
http://www.fowlingguns.com/pennfowler1.html
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
I called up and talked to the curator of the museum this weekend. Apparently my memory has degraded from years of binge drinking.
The rifle is a Whitworth
It was a scoped version, and it made its way into the states via a blockade run at Mobile Alabama. I was told that this is the only Whitworth that was not confiscated after the war. Most of the rifles were destroyed after they were confiscated, this one was taken by the rifleman to his home in Texas, were it was used to hunt with and passed down through his family.
The scope was lent to another gentleman and never returned. Apparently the rifleman didn't mind, due to the fact of not being able to shoulder fire the rifle with it on. It had a ridiculously small eye relief and would blacken your eye when used.
The family, who owned the gun in Texas, contacted the museum to get information on the rifle, then ended up donating it to the museum.
So yeah, the only non-confiscated Whitworth rifle known to exist, sits in OKC.
Cheers
I called up and talked to the curator of the museum this weekend. Apparently my memory has degraded from years of binge drinking.
The rifle is a Whitworth
It was a scoped version, and it made its way into the states via a blockade run at Mobile Alabama. I was told that this is the only Whitworth that was not confiscated after the war. Most of the rifles were destroyed after they were confiscated, this one was taken by the rifleman to his home in Texas, were it was used to hunt with and passed down through his family.
The scope was lent to another gentleman and never returned. Apparently the rifleman didn't mind, due to the fact of not being able to shoulder fire the rifle with it on. It had a ridiculously small eye relief and would blacken your eye when used.
The family, who owned the gun in Texas, contacted the museum to get information on the rifle, then ended up donating it to the museum.
So yeah, the only non-confiscated Whitworth rifle known to exist, sits in OKC.
Cheers
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
You can purchase a reproduction whitworth rifle from dixie gun works. I have heard good things about this rifle. Someone correct me if I am wrong. One day I would like to add one to my collection!
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=954
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_se...amp;x=0&y=0
You can purchase a reproduction whitworth rifle from dixie gun works. I have heard good things about this rifle. Someone correct me if I am wrong. One day I would like to add one to my collection!
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=954
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_se...amp;x=0&y=0
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Merz Antiques has a Whitworth for $26K.
http://merzantiques.com/catalog_C0_47_1.php
Merz Antiques has a Whitworth for $26K.
http://merzantiques.com/catalog_C0_47_1.php
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Merz Antiques has a Whitworth for $26K.
http://merzantiques.com/catalog_C0_47_1.php </div></div>
Damn, beat me to it. BTW here is the pic of the cased set.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Merz Antiques has a Whitworth for $26K.
http://merzantiques.com/catalog_C0_47_1.php </div></div>
Damn, beat me to it. BTW here is the pic of the cased set.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Go to a appleseed. You can learn a lot about the rev. war.. they did indeed have snipers. not right from the get go but into the war they came about. they were good to about 250 to 300 yards vs. the 60 to 70 yards of the smoothbore.. They would even put on shooting exhibitions showing off their talents.. There are stories of people holding a 4x4 between their legs and one of the "snipers" would shoot it out from 250 yards
www.appleseedinfo.org
Go to a appleseed. You can learn a lot about the rev. war.. they did indeed have snipers. not right from the get go but into the war they came about. they were good to about 250 to 300 yards vs. the 60 to 70 yards of the smoothbore.. They would even put on shooting exhibitions showing off their talents.. There are stories of people holding a 4x4 between their legs and one of the "snipers" would shoot it out from 250 yards
www.appleseedinfo.org
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Wow that is pretty!! Too bad I dont have 26k. I guess I will have to settle for a $1500 replica until I win the lottery.
Wow that is pretty!! Too bad I dont have 26k. I guess I will have to settle for a $1500 replica until I win the lottery.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Do a search for Major Patrick Ferguson.He was a British officer that led Loyalists.He was killed,and buried,on Kings Mountain,SC.He developed a breech-loading flintlock rifle - he sought to form a unit of marksmen and arm them with it.There is one on display at the Cowpens Battlefield in SC...In his diary,he describes his opportunity to shoot an American officer on horseback - he didn't because of the man's bearing.The officer is believed to have been George Washington...
Do a search for Major Patrick Ferguson.He was a British officer that led Loyalists.He was killed,and buried,on Kings Mountain,SC.He developed a breech-loading flintlock rifle - he sought to form a unit of marksmen and arm them with it.There is one on display at the Cowpens Battlefield in SC...In his diary,he describes his opportunity to shoot an American officer on horseback - he didn't because of the man's bearing.The officer is believed to have been George Washington...
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
I love the term "War of Northern Aggression".
I love the term "War of Northern Aggression".
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
www.csmid.com This is a reenactment unit I used to run with.
The Brit Rifle unit that Plaster didnt talk about in his article in American Rifleman
www.csmid.com This is a reenactment unit I used to run with.
The Brit Rifle unit that Plaster didnt talk about in his article in American Rifleman
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
If you like reading about the sharpshooters of the Civil War, I hope you'll buy my novel when I get it finished. That is exactly what it is about... a CPL in the 2nd USSS.
The first use of the word sharpshooter is highly debated, but in terms of the training and ability to fight in "open order" using marksmanship, scouting and skirmishing skills, the 95th Foot, (aka 95th Rifles) used during the Penisula Campaign, predated Berdan's men by 60 years. And everyone has read Rifleman Dodd.
If you like reading about the sharpshooters of the Civil War, I hope you'll buy my novel when I get it finished. That is exactly what it is about... a CPL in the 2nd USSS.
The first use of the word sharpshooter is highly debated, but in terms of the training and ability to fight in "open order" using marksmanship, scouting and skirmishing skills, the 95th Foot, (aka 95th Rifles) used during the Penisula Campaign, predated Berdan's men by 60 years. And everyone has read Rifleman Dodd.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Berdan's Sharpshooters Camped in my neighborhood before the Battle of Fredericksburg.
Berdan's Sharpshooters Camped in my neighborhood before the Battle of Fredericksburg.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
And had the Whitworth used against them as they tried to reach that little road beneath Marye's Heights....
Berdan liked to give motivational speeches around those senior to him, and it has been said that his horse could run backward from the sound of gunfire.
Plasmech, if you enjoy the Story of Patrick Ferguson, also look up Thomas Plunkett and the Plunkett position.
And had the Whitworth used against them as they tried to reach that little road beneath Marye's Heights....
Berdan liked to give motivational speeches around those senior to him, and it has been said that his horse could run backward from the sound of gunfire.
Plasmech, if you enjoy the Story of Patrick Ferguson, also look up Thomas Plunkett and the Plunkett position.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
This is a link to the Appleseed Project National Headquarters. http://appleseedinfo.org
Lot's of history there. I attended my first Appleseed last month, I enjoyed hearing some stories of the Revolutionary War, & learned a few things about Riflemen how to better shoot a rifle. Think about attending a clinic near you.
This is a link to the Appleseed Project National Headquarters. http://appleseedinfo.org
Lot's of history there. I attended my first Appleseed last month, I enjoyed hearing some stories of the Revolutionary War, & learned a few things about Riflemen how to better shoot a rifle. Think about attending a clinic near you.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
Of course its not PC to talk about our hiring our own Austrian, Hessian or Polish mercs to come over and train the Continental army in conventional military tactics of the day. To do so would be to acknowledge that the Brits were not so bad in bringing their own hired guns, and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
Of course its not PC to talk about our hiring our own Austrian, Hessian or Polish mercs to come over and train the Continental army in conventional military tactics of the day. To do so would be to acknowledge that the Brits were not so bad in bringing their own hired guns, and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
Of course its not PC to talk about our hiring our own Austrian, Hessian or Polish mercs to come over and train the Continental army in conventional military tactics of the day. To do so would be to acknowledge that the Brits were not so bad in bringing their own hired guns, and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
</div></div>
The Applesed version??? What we teach is the events of April 19, 1775, which is the first day of the Revolution. At this time there was no Continental Army to fight the regulars it was all malitia. There are however many things that happened that day that are very ammusing and if it would have just been a little different we may be speaking with a funny accent. This is stuff that you or your kids never hear in school because it is not PC. It will make you think and most will come away from the weekend with a new respect for our founders and the sacrifices they made so that we may be free.
I also believe it was Rogers Rangers that had a requirement for the Riflemen to be in the unit had to be able to make 250 yard head shots.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
Of course its not PC to talk about our hiring our own Austrian, Hessian or Polish mercs to come over and train the Continental army in conventional military tactics of the day. To do so would be to acknowledge that the Brits were not so bad in bringing their own hired guns, and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
</div></div>
The Applesed version??? What we teach is the events of April 19, 1775, which is the first day of the Revolution. At this time there was no Continental Army to fight the regulars it was all malitia. There are however many things that happened that day that are very ammusing and if it would have just been a little different we may be speaking with a funny accent. This is stuff that you or your kids never hear in school because it is not PC. It will make you think and most will come away from the weekend with a new respect for our founders and the sacrifices they made so that we may be free.
I also believe it was Rogers Rangers that had a requirement for the Riflemen to be in the unit had to be able to make 250 yard head shots.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Amongst the British Army mercenaries were the 'Jaegers'(German for 'hunters').They were young marksmen,armed with rifles.They,and American Indians,normally served as the vanguard for the British army...
Amongst the British Army mercenaries were the 'Jaegers'(German for 'hunters').They were young marksmen,armed with rifles.They,and American Indians,normally served as the vanguard for the British army...
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
So how many rifles were on the field April 19th? If there was 1 rifle I would be surprised, and if there was, it was probably in the hands of a Brit officer that had served in the 60th Royal Americans in the last war.
Rodgers Rangers had Riflemen In the French and Indian War? News to me, havent seen any mention of rifles in my 1769 Reprint of his journals, but I will check again. You dont really think there were only 19 rules for ranging do you, the ones in the modern Ranger Handbook?
And yes I spelled his name with a "D", just like one of his powder horns that Ive held in my hand numerous times.
And while we are at it, Why exacty did Washington get named CINC? Was it his tactical mastery, or his reputation for having started the last war with the french when he assissinated a french diplomat?
Sam Adams, failed blackmarketeer who lost his illicit trade with Quebec when Canada fell.
That's real history, hundreds of rifles in the hands of the militia in New England at the start of the Revolution is not history, its Spin, Psyop what ever you want to call it. The problem I have, having been a Psyopper for a number of years is that you have broken the prime directive, that being that all good Psyop is based in Truth.
Your Every man a Rifleman spin does not hold up when compared to the primary source documents of the period.
So how many rifles were on the field April 19th? If there was 1 rifle I would be surprised, and if there was, it was probably in the hands of a Brit officer that had served in the 60th Royal Americans in the last war.
Rodgers Rangers had Riflemen In the French and Indian War? News to me, havent seen any mention of rifles in my 1769 Reprint of his journals, but I will check again. You dont really think there were only 19 rules for ranging do you, the ones in the modern Ranger Handbook?
And yes I spelled his name with a "D", just like one of his powder horns that Ive held in my hand numerous times.
And while we are at it, Why exacty did Washington get named CINC? Was it his tactical mastery, or his reputation for having started the last war with the french when he assissinated a french diplomat?
Sam Adams, failed blackmarketeer who lost his illicit trade with Quebec when Canada fell.
That's real history, hundreds of rifles in the hands of the militia in New England at the start of the Revolution is not history, its Spin, Psyop what ever you want to call it. The problem I have, having been a Psyopper for a number of years is that you have broken the prime directive, that being that all good Psyop is based in Truth.
Your Every man a Rifleman spin does not hold up when compared to the primary source documents of the period.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By whom, the Brits? </div></div>
Most on the receiving end of snipers consider sniping to be dishonorable
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By whom, the Brits? </div></div>
Most on the receiving end of snipers consider sniping to be dishonorable
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I recall correctly from a History Channel show about the Revolutionary War, American marksmen shooting from concealed locations, picking off British officers, were considered dishonorable combatants.</div></div>
By whom, the Brits? </div></div>
See oneshot's reply above -- they were loathed by the British (probably because they were effective at terrorizing British officers), but even some Americans thought that hiding and shooting from concealment was unbefitting an "honorable" soldier.</div></div>
From my reading that was still the case until well after the Great War, Sniper Schools were disbanded on cessation of hostilities and little was made of the achievments of men such as McBride, Hesketh-Pritchard et al. This meant the wheel had to be re-invented for '39-'45.
In Russia the exploits and importance of snipers has long been acknowledged (Saitsev for example).
However it was only relatively recently that the value of sniping became widely "acceptable" in the West, both to the military and civilians alike - possibly not even until post-Vietnam if the need to re-establish Scout Sniper Training in the US in the Vietnam era can be taken as a measure?
The recognition of Hathcock etc. being prime examples of some wider acceptance of the art.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate Haler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gewgaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I recall correctly from a History Channel show about the Revolutionary War, American marksmen shooting from concealed locations, picking off British officers, were considered dishonorable combatants.</div></div>
By whom, the Brits? </div></div>
See oneshot's reply above -- they were loathed by the British (probably because they were effective at terrorizing British officers), but even some Americans thought that hiding and shooting from concealment was unbefitting an "honorable" soldier.</div></div>
From my reading that was still the case until well after the Great War, Sniper Schools were disbanded on cessation of hostilities and little was made of the achievments of men such as McBride, Hesketh-Pritchard et al. This meant the wheel had to be re-invented for '39-'45.
In Russia the exploits and importance of snipers has long been acknowledged (Saitsev for example).
However it was only relatively recently that the value of sniping became widely "acceptable" in the West, both to the military and civilians alike - possibly not even until post-Vietnam if the need to re-establish Scout Sniper Training in the US in the Vietnam era can be taken as a measure?
The recognition of Hathcock etc. being prime examples of some wider acceptance of the art.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
I've read that the British Army had more rifles than the Continental Army.I guess its true because the Continental Regulars were armed with smooth-bores,the squirrel-rifles were in the hands of the militia and other irregulars...
I've read that the British Army had more rifles than the Continental Army.I guess its true because the Continental Regulars were armed with smooth-bores,the squirrel-rifles were in the hands of the militia and other irregulars...
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
.... and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
</div></div>
I believe that you are making false assumptions and false statements regarding what is taught at Appleseed shoots. If you would actually attend an Appleseed, and actually hear the "Appleseed Version" of history you would see that we are in agreement with most points. In the spirit of a common interest in History, I would suggest that you pick up a copy of "Paul Revere's Ride" By David Hackett Fischer. Much of the "Appleseed History" which is told at Appelseed shoots comes from its pages along with other reputable sources. You will never hear that every able bodied man who fought for their independence was able to shoot to the "Rifleman's" standard. Most could not. That is clearly expressed. That is what makes it so remarkable for those who could. A head shot at 250 meters was an extraordinary shot in the days of April 19th 1775. It was the exception to the rule. If even a small percentage of "Riflemen" in the day could shoot this well, it should be the minimum which we strive to train a "Nation of Riflemen" to in this modern age with modern rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
.... and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
</div></div>
I believe that you are making false assumptions and false statements regarding what is taught at Appleseed shoots. If you would actually attend an Appleseed, and actually hear the "Appleseed Version" of history you would see that we are in agreement with most points. In the spirit of a common interest in History, I would suggest that you pick up a copy of "Paul Revere's Ride" By David Hackett Fischer. Much of the "Appleseed History" which is told at Appelseed shoots comes from its pages along with other reputable sources. You will never hear that every able bodied man who fought for their independence was able to shoot to the "Rifleman's" standard. Most could not. That is clearly expressed. That is what makes it so remarkable for those who could. A head shot at 250 meters was an extraordinary shot in the days of April 19th 1775. It was the exception to the rule. If even a small percentage of "Riflemen" in the day could shoot this well, it should be the minimum which we strive to train a "Nation of Riflemen" to in this modern age with modern rifles.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
Moving forward: When the Brits and their allies cleaned up the Frogs in the Napoleonic wars, the British "green coats" (riflemen) Used the Baker rifle. To be "chosen man" you had to be able to hit a 1/2 man target at 300 yards from an improvised rest. Open sights and a driven patched ball. (hammered in).
Even this old geezer can still do pretty well with glasses at 100 with his
Even better at 18 paces!
Moving forward: When the Brits and their allies cleaned up the Frogs in the Napoleonic wars, the British "green coats" (riflemen) Used the Baker rifle. To be "chosen man" you had to be able to hit a 1/2 man target at 300 yards from an improvised rest. Open sights and a driven patched ball. (hammered in).
Even this old geezer can still do pretty well with glasses at 100 with his

Even better at 18 paces!
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
That's a nice rifle....
The green jacket is still proudly worn as regimental dress uniform by British rifle regiments whose troops are not classified as "Private" but "Rifleman"
That's a nice rifle....
The green jacket is still proudly worn as regimental dress uniform by British rifle regiments whose troops are not classified as "Private" but "Rifleman"
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Moving forward: When the Brits and their allies cleaned up the Frogs in the Napoleonic wars, the British "green coats" (riflemen) Used the Baker rifle. To be "chosen man" you had to be able to hit a 1/2 man target at 300 yards from an improvised rest. Open sights and a driven patched ball. (hammered in).
Even this old geezer can still do pretty well with glasses at 100 with his
</div></div>
Very nice rifle and nice kill something to be proud of.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Moving forward: When the Brits and their allies cleaned up the Frogs in the Napoleonic wars, the British "green coats" (riflemen) Used the Baker rifle. To be "chosen man" you had to be able to hit a 1/2 man target at 300 yards from an improvised rest. Open sights and a driven patched ball. (hammered in).
Even this old geezer can still do pretty well with glasses at 100 with his
</div></div>
Very nice rifle and nice kill something to be proud of.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fepowered</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
.... and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
</div></div>
I believe that you are making false assumptions and false statements regarding what is taught at Appleseed shoots. If you would actually attend an Appleseed, and actually hear the "Appleseed Version" of history you would see that we are in agreement with most points. In the spirit of a common interest in History, I would suggest that you pick up a copy of "Paul Revere's Ride" By David Hackett Fischer. Much of the "Appleseed History" which is told at Appelseed shoots comes from its pages along with other reputable sources. You will never hear that every able bodied man who fought for their independence was able to shoot to the "Rifleman's" standard. Most could not. That is clearly expressed. That is what makes it so remarkable for those who could. A head shot at 250 meters was an extraordinary shot in the days of April 19th 1775. It was the exception to the rule. If even a small percentage of "Riflemen" in the day could shoot this well, it should be the minimum which we strive to train a "Nation of Riflemen" to in this modern age with modern rifles. </div></div>
I admit I have not read Hackett's book, I spend most of my time in the Haldimand or other personal papers of the people who actually lived thru the events that we are discussing. But for modern writers interpretaions of events, I think Calloway or Anderson are better sources, only because they dont look at things in a vacume. Way too many Americans, who depending on your point of view, have either received a dumbed down version of history, or outright had the wool pulled over their eyes, view April 19th, 1775 without a full understanding of why the events of May 28th 1754 directly relate.
Until there is a shift in our collective understanding about British taxation being an effect, not a cause we will continue to be ignorant.
So regarding my supposed false statements and assumptions. One only has to pick up Shotgun news and read Fred's very motivated, yet oh so wrong attempts to interpret history to know Im right in what Ive posted. If Fred is not a Official Spokesman for the Appleseed project, I dont know who is..........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fepowered</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Psywar1-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only problem with that appleseed project version of history is that it perpetuates the myth that we won our independance hiding behind rocks and trees sniping the brits till they gave up at Yorktown.
.... and that every able bodied white male living in North America was not able to shoot the ass out of a gnat at 500 yards........
</div></div>
I believe that you are making false assumptions and false statements regarding what is taught at Appleseed shoots. If you would actually attend an Appleseed, and actually hear the "Appleseed Version" of history you would see that we are in agreement with most points. In the spirit of a common interest in History, I would suggest that you pick up a copy of "Paul Revere's Ride" By David Hackett Fischer. Much of the "Appleseed History" which is told at Appelseed shoots comes from its pages along with other reputable sources. You will never hear that every able bodied man who fought for their independence was able to shoot to the "Rifleman's" standard. Most could not. That is clearly expressed. That is what makes it so remarkable for those who could. A head shot at 250 meters was an extraordinary shot in the days of April 19th 1775. It was the exception to the rule. If even a small percentage of "Riflemen" in the day could shoot this well, it should be the minimum which we strive to train a "Nation of Riflemen" to in this modern age with modern rifles. </div></div>
I admit I have not read Hackett's book, I spend most of my time in the Haldimand or other personal papers of the people who actually lived thru the events that we are discussing. But for modern writers interpretaions of events, I think Calloway or Anderson are better sources, only because they dont look at things in a vacume. Way too many Americans, who depending on your point of view, have either received a dumbed down version of history, or outright had the wool pulled over their eyes, view April 19th, 1775 without a full understanding of why the events of May 28th 1754 directly relate.
Until there is a shift in our collective understanding about British taxation being an effect, not a cause we will continue to be ignorant.
So regarding my supposed false statements and assumptions. One only has to pick up Shotgun news and read Fred's very motivated, yet oh so wrong attempts to interpret history to know Im right in what Ive posted. If Fred is not a Official Spokesman for the Appleseed project, I dont know who is..........
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
From the Confederate standpoint: "The Confederate Whitworth Sharpshooters", by John Anderson Morrow, Copyright John A. Morrow, 1989. This is a relatively thin paperback book filled with good info on equipment and operations but is very hard to find.
A more recent publication: "Jack Hinson's One-Man War A Civil War Sniper", by Tom C. McKenney, Pelican Publishing Co., 2009. Again from the Confederate perspective.
From the Confederate standpoint: "The Confederate Whitworth Sharpshooters", by John Anderson Morrow, Copyright John A. Morrow, 1989. This is a relatively thin paperback book filled with good info on equipment and operations but is very hard to find.
A more recent publication: "Jack Hinson's One-Man War A Civil War Sniper", by Tom C. McKenney, Pelican Publishing Co., 2009. Again from the Confederate perspective.
Re: Revolutionary and Civil war sniper rifles
In order to settle this I will reveal a secrete that has been kept since the 1700’s.
My great grandpa knew a guy that was in the continental army as a Delta Operator! Not just an operator but a Sniper! So yes there were snipers and they had some of the first gen starlite scopes but with Batteries not available they were useless. Guy would only talk about it while drinking, said he saw some bad stuff!
In order to settle this I will reveal a secrete that has been kept since the 1700’s.
My great grandpa knew a guy that was in the continental army as a Delta Operator! Not just an operator but a Sniper! So yes there were snipers and they had some of the first gen starlite scopes but with Batteries not available they were useless. Guy would only talk about it while drinking, said he saw some bad stuff!
