I'm running an Impact with a straight 1.25 barrel in a Foundation, it's 21.6lbs without the bipod. 23ish, with.
I've never really given rifle weight much thought. I'm more concerned with balance.
I've never really given rifle weight much thought. I'm more concerned with balance.
About 18 pounds. Heavy enough to settle in and balance well on a prop but light enough to be able to move through a stage with for me.
One question is how old are you and in what physical shape? I'm older now, so I've gone from a 23lb to a 19lb rifle and I'm still comfortable hitting targets at distance.
1 meelion pounds..... 24-27lbs depending on which rifle. Been as low as 12 and as heavy as 27 weight never made me shoot or spot any better but the heavier it is the faster it settles for me if that makes sense.
Are you using any internal weights?
PRS events should all start with a 10 mile ruck, where the shooters carry all the equipment they intend to use…
LOL It's not called "Barricade Benchrest" for nothing now. But seriously there are matches like that if you wanted to do that but getting up there so I would pass on that no matter the weight of the rifle. I still carry all my gear in my pack though. No cart.
Why?
There's plenty of matches that do that for the people that are interested in that sort of thing.
Just like there's plenty of hunter style matches for people that like that style.
The PRS is a game, it doesn't have to fit whatever arbitrary definition of "practical" people make up in their minds.
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I’m at 24lbs as pictured with 5 or 6 weights in the arcs rail and a butt stock weight.
It do be heavy, but it do not move either.
It do be heavy, but it do not move either.
that used to be called a west coast field match
rock lake, barrel burner, gem state, Avenal, even Hornady
all had at least 1 mile of hiking before you got to the first stage,
mostly on some kind of incline
then you hike another 2-3 miles throughout the day, also on an incline
people still run 20-26lbs guns
idk about you, but the gun is not really the heaviest thing,
it's all the support gear and ammo
22.6lbs would like to go a little lighter but it balances the way I want it to.
It’s all about balance point. If you can balance with 18-19 do it. I like mine around 5” in front of the bottom metal.
That’s not what it’s all about.
The top guys try to minimize “sight disturbance” as much as reasonably possible to get all the info from each shot for corrections and faster follow ups
Also, the “balance point” should be set up once the shooters input is added not for a static rifle so there will be trade offs and preferences each shooter has since each shooter does a different amount of input and each type of stage or obstacle has a different amount of input depending on position
Semantics, brother. Does weight reduce recoil? Absolutely! Do guys run weight without balancing the rifle? Not if they know what they are doing. Hence my comment. Any way you look at it, the end goal is to have a balanced rifle.
While I agree that weight isn't just about balance (sometimes heavier weight is a byproduct of balance when the shooter would have been content with a lighter weight, but it wouldn't balance), you shouldn't be balancing your rifle after "shooter input."
The point is to balance a rifle in such a way that it requires almost no shooter input. As most top shooters are employing differing levels/forms of free recoil.
If a rifle is balanced where it will stay on the target if you walk away from it, and someone needs a different balance point due to their input, they have an issue in position building.
Every year, it seems like there is a trend to move the “balance point” forward. I have not seen a reversal of this trend since field style precision rifle competitions first started when people would attempt to “balance” the rifle as close to the mag well as possible. Every year it continues moving forward.
A lot of where a rifle balances has to do with the bag. The longer the bag, the more forward your balance point may need to be. I.e. running a 1+1 gamechanger vs a Wiebad Puppy will change your balance point should be.
As mentioned above, the center of the bag is where you want the balance point.
The original just in front of the magazine was due to the way we built positions at the time with limited types of bags. The first few min of this video is a good example:
Lol, been away from prs for a bit... More pillows hanging off guys than I have on my bed. Counted 4 on one guy.
That video was from 11 years ago. Now they use a v shaped bag on the bottom and flat on the top. The forends are wide and flat. A lot of changes from that videoLol, been away from prs for a bit... More pillows hanging off guys than I have on my bed. Counted 4 on one guy.
Gotcha, didn't notice the date.
This is how you know all the main comp chassis are walking dessign flaws...
How so?
Most chassis don't require 20-24lbs to balance. They add the extra for recoil.
20-24 is where you see diminishing returns so much that you can't tell much a difference when you go heavier. Below 20-24 and there's a noticeable difference.
Gonna need to add some context.
I run a 22lb rimfire and a 23.5lb centerfire. They're identical builds except for the barrel.
I run a Manners TCS with a proof competition barrel contour chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor at around 20lb. It takes the full set of Arca weights to properly balance the rifle on a shmedium game changer. I still have difficulty spotting shots under 500yds when positional shooting. The setup has about 3 mils of muzzle jump with a good brake running 154gn bullets.
There are people out there who achieve sufficient recoil management to spot those impacts, but I'm right there with ya. I shot a moderate 130gr 6.5CM load out of a 20lb rig at two matches recently and really struggled to see impacts for most of the weekend. I've been shooting 22BR (about 30% less recoil), I hadn't really trained up to the higher recoil level, and I honestly just wasn't prepared. And people can say all they want to me about how I just need to get better, and to some extent they're right; it doesn't negate the fact that it was significantly harder to maintain sufficient sight picture stability to spot impacts and stay mentally locked in with a heavier caliber. I think the community generally understands this, that heavier recoil (whether it be bigger caliber or lighter rifle) is more challenging; what the community seems unable to align on is where the cutoff is between "it's an equipment problem" and "you just suck, get better."
My path forward for now is to work on training with the 6.5CM to try to get higher performance under recoil, then switch to the 22BR for competition. We'll see how that goes; I know some people intentionally train with a 308 for this same reason, and I can understand the merits.
There are too many top shooters using 6.5cm effectively for it to be an equipment problem. 6.5cm is absolutely more difficult for someone new to PRS, but at the end of the day, the problem is with the shooter. Satterlee triggercam w/ 6cm, 6.5prc, & .375 Ruger
I was in your shoes as recently as 6mo ago & I've come a loooong way. I still suck, but I see the majority of impacts shooting 130-153.5gr bullets in an 18lb rifle @ 18x
Mhmm, I don't disagree with you.
I run 153.5 Bergers at 2600fps and the difficulty spotting shots is mostly a problem under 500yds. Past 500 I feel like the slower velocity and bigger splash can aid in spotting impacts. Unfortunately at the matches I shot last year the majority of targets were in the 300 to 500 yd range. The 6mm's have a distinct advantage at these ranges.
Morgun King has made similar comments on the hide.
If I order another 6.5 barrel that I intend to compete with I would probably go with a straight barrel contour and try to get the rifle weight up to around 24lbs. I think a person could compete just fine with a sub 20lb 6mm.
I intend to follow a similar path this year. Continue to train with a 6.5 to stay accustomed to the heavy recoil, and then switch to a 6 GT for competitions. I think there are a lot of psychological benefits to training with a handicap which can help offset the increased pressure and stress of a competition.
I ran a 16.5 pound 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 140 ELDs for years and no issues with recoil and spotting shots. You can't free recoil it but you learn to run it then it's not an issue at all. My current is about 19 pounds with bipod and easy to stay on target. Got a new 153 ATip load I will be trying out at a match in a few weeks but at the range the recoil isn't much worse than the 140s as it's going slower.
I’m running the same @ 2,660 w/ the rifle specs I listed above & can spot the impacts.
Being fairly new to PRS, I start with the assumption that I’m the problem when something is not working for me.
If you’re still running rear weights on that TCS, lose them. I’d also experiment with shortening your LOP 1/4-1/2”, unless it’s already short. Both of those could facilitate 3mils of recoil
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I’ve noticed increased recoil with the 153’s over 140’s, but I can actually spot shots better with the 153’s because the bullets are moving slow enough that I’ve recovered from the recoil impulse before the shot impacts.
It’s more difficult with heavies at close range though. I probably pick up 50% at 400yds, and even less at 300.
The advantage of heavies starts to show up at 500 yds and beyond especially.
@Brandon Biwer I wanted to add that 3mils off a barricade really isn't bad at all, IMO it's actually pretty good if you're fairly new. If that really is the maximum recoil/reticle movement you're seeing, you should definitely be able to spot your hits. As soon as you break a shot, you're tracking the plate with your eye, not your reticle or trying to recenter the reticle on target, correct?
Senior shooter here, recently found my comfort zone shooting 6 dasher, 105 bullets at 2770-2800 fps from a 19 # rifle. The balancing point is around 4” in front of the magwell that is perfect for instance for pint size gamechangers, maybe a little short for a schmedium, but even in complete ‘free’ recoil shots the reticle rises not more than two mils from the target. The TMB muzzle brake was very helpful in this I have to say. This setup will not hold me back in any way so I will stick with it. I hate dry firing, that’s my real problem, so get into position and find the fucking target the hardest part of the job. Then the wind is there for everybody holding a rifle.
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