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Rifles Abuse

K

kentactic

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 26, 2010
422
1
37
Southern, CA
whats considered reasonable beating on the rifle and scope etc before you can expect to lose zero. just curious because i have no problem beating the crap out of my firearms... infact i enjoy it but i want to know when i should suspect loss of zero say if i were "hunting" and i ate crap and landed on the scope real good.

Remington 700 Tactical , Seekins base and rings, SS10X42HD, B&C stock...(all torqued to spec)
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

What's considered "reasonable abuse" to a car before it stops working?

Like everything, the answer to your question will depend on any number of factors, predominantly based on the exact items in question and the specific conditions they're being subjected to.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

Too many variables to say specifically, that's kind of like asking "When will I burn out my barrel?"

Use it till you break it and then you'll know it's limits, upgrade there after if you are so inclined.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

It will be fairly obvious when it occurs , cuz your shit will quit working
wink.gif
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

If you think about it, your rifle takes more abuse firing a bullet than getting dropped in most cases. It takes a considerable amount of force to bend a scope tube or rings.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

let me make a scenario... if i have it slung across my back and im running around so the rifles bouncing around... probably giving numerous blows to the scope sideways.. would that cause it to lose zero?

i realize every time i shoot it its getting a pretty good impact but thats from front to rear not side to side and the scope and the rifle are moving as one.

i mean the base bolts are so damn tiny. how strong could they really be. nobodys ever done a test to see what a quality setup can handle?
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">let me make a scenario... if i have it slung across my back and im running around so the rifles bouncing around... probably giving numerous blows to the scope sideways.. would that cause it to lose zero?

i realize every time i shoot it its getting a pretty good impact but thats from front to rear not side to side and the scope and the rifle are moving as one.

i mean the base bolts are so damn tiny. how strong could they really be. </div></div>

Given your scenario you should not loose zero at all. You're soft. Now if you have a plate on your back then yes you might. You stand a better chance of having the knob turn slung over your back than knocking the scope out of alignment.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's considered "reasonable abuse" to a car before it stops working?

Like everything, the answer to your question will depend on any number of factors, predominantly based on the exact items in question and the specific conditions they're being subjected to. </div></div>

yep hence why i gave the scenario and exact items in question...
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">let me make a scenario... if i have it slung across my back and im running around so the rifles bouncing around... probably giving numerous blows to the scope sideways.. would that cause it to lose zero?

i realize every time i shoot it its getting a pretty good impact but thats from front to rear not side to side and the scope and the rifle are moving as one.

i mean the base bolts are so damn tiny. how strong could they really be. </div></div>

Given your scenario you should not loose zero at all. You're soft. Now if you have a plate on your back then yes you might. You stand a better chance of having the knob turn slung over your back than knocking the scope out of alignment.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

ok thats quite informative thank you sir... im fine with the knobs turning just dont want to bend a base bolt or something.

funny side story... this morning i was putting all the crap in my jeep and rested the rifle on the back bumper and walked away and the shocks that hld up my hatch are weak when its cold and that fucker slammed on the rifle in its padded fabric case... i had to laugh.

the way i see it.. if i cant beat the shit out of it and have it remain reliable then i dont even want to touch it... i usually take what ever firerm i buy and throw it a good distance on dirt and see how it does. but that wouldnt be good for the remington eh?
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

I have heard stories of rifles falling off buildings (2 stories) and surviving unscathed.

It all depends on the many variables.

A friend on mine had his rifle fall of a bench due to strong winds whilst he was not next to the gun... the gun fall what, not even a meter, landed on his Schmidt and Bender scope and threw the zero right off.

Ive seen a Nightforce take a decent pounding in the flesh... to cut a long story short the rifle was hanging out of the vehicles window when it went over a giant pothole. The sunshade smashed into the roof of the vehicle and dislodged from the scope! If you have ever taken a NF sunshade off you know that the threads are fairly long and it takes a good couple of turns to unscrew... and this was ripped out by sheer force! Alas, the scope held zero and the sunshade was beat back into shape and still resides on that same scope.

Everythings different and regardless of build quality or reputation I would do as much as I could to reduce the abuse given to equipment.

I also run around with my AICS with biathlon sling on my back. Everything has been fine so far
smile.gif
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

Well, your glass should be fine. Its 10x fixed, and its a SWFA SS scope.

I stupidly let my rifle fall off a shooting bench and land on the forward portion of the scope.

Mine too is a SS 10x42. I didnt have a change in zero. This was a especially hard blow because my howa 223 rig weighs in at about 17lbs.

The scope took the impact like a champ. The concrete it hit made a nice scratch/pit on the bell, but its still fine
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone please post Nobody's break-in video here... </div></div>

+1...is this the one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg&feature=related

OP - Also you've never seen this one from AI I guess?? Go to around 1:45 and watch.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKrLnxRxNAI

Some of it will come down to just how good your kit is.......and how and what it falls on
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

Years ago I was taught that the word 'conservation' was defined as 'wise use'. I would define my manner for the handling of my firearms as conservative.

I avoid anything that might reasonably be termed 'abuse'. Firing a firearm does not usually come under the heading of what I would call 'abuse'. That's more a kind of normal usage.

I can't support the handling of firearms in any manner that might be considered careless. Besides safety issues, they also constitute what for me is a sizeable investment; and I can't afford to cause careless damage or injury. I think a careless gun owner is dangerous.

Given even the best care; zeros will drift, and wear and tear will happen. I concern myself less with why, unless it's repetitive; than I do with correcting it when it occurs.

Treat firearms with reasonable care, and results should be reasonably positive.

Greg
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

i think saying some one who is hard on equipment is careless is incorrect... if your offroading in your jeep and trying to push the rig to its limits then your going to be very hard on your equipment but you can do so without being careless.

i think to say you need baby your gear is silly.. it actually takes half the fun out of owning the rifle all together... kinda like those guys who own hotrods and after every time they take it out it gets washed and waxed... id rather own a Geo Metro then do that crap. youll never be able to fully enjoy your rifle if you dont use it like a rifle.. if some ones into bench shooting and laying on a nice soft matt when they shoot thats great for them...but i enjoy getting dirty... i go prone right in the dirt when i go shooting...

the video of the guy throwing his rifle on the ground does "sound about right" to me.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

Well then that's just a difference of opinions between the two of you. I would love to be able to go out hunting and be tough on my firearm but Im just not capable of doing this because i take the best care of my guns that i can; i cherish them and hope to pass them down to my kids if im so blessed to ever have any.

On the other hand, my current rifle was babied untill it kissed the ground for the first time and ever since i've not worried about it so much. Not to say that i don't still take care to make sure it doesn't happen again, because i would rather it doesn't, but im not about to cry over spilt milk.

Where i do draw the line is when either im handling someone elses equipment or if someone else is handling my own equipment and damage occurs due to carelessness. Our last deer hunt my dad got to use his newest Browning A-Bolt (nicest gun we've ever owned i might mention) topped with leoupold rings/base and a super clear Burris scope and he took his deer on the first day and one guy in our group didn't have anything to shoot so my dad lent the Browning to the guy (who happened to be his boss at the time which was unfortunate) and the guy took absolutly no care of the gun. After the first day there was a deep scratche on the barrel and another on the scope with a big dent in the stock. When we found out about it after inspecting the rifle (the guy didn't even mention anything about them) and i was ready to kill the guy. I can't imagine how my dad felt. It's water under the bridge now for my dad but my blood still boils whenever i think about it...

End rant.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

If for some reason slinging your rifle into the dirt on purpose has become a part of your average day at the range I would probably assume there's a bit of a tool streak in you....

Honest wear is one thing....
Trying to create artificially induced wear and tear is right up there with buying bluejeans with holes in them already......
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

I tried to build a very tough set up so that it should take this kind of abuse, but I'm not about to do it just for the fun of it. When it does happen, I hope I did this build well.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gregch44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried to build a very tough set up so that it should take this kind of abuse, but I'm not about to do it just for the fun of it. When it does happen, I hope I did this build well.</div></div>+1 I couldn't agree more with your logic
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

but how can you trust your gear if its never tested?... when you test drive a car do you go through all the gears and floor it?.... if not your an idiot..

why would a rifle be any different?

as far as the tool comment goes... tools get stuck with lemons...lol
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the way i see it.. if i cant beat the shit out of it and have it remain reliable then i dont even want to touch it... i usually take what ever firerm i buy and throw it a good distance on dirt and see how it does. but that wouldnt be good for the remington eh? </div></div>
This is one of the absolute dumbest things I've ever heard. I may not baby my firearms but I damn sure don't go trying to destroy them. But then again everybody knows that a rifle isn't worth a shit if you can't pack the barrel full of mud and still shoot 1/2 min. Sounds like a serious tool streak to me.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Csf45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the way i see it.. if i cant beat the shit out of it and have it remain reliable then i dont even want to touch it... i usually take what ever firerm i buy and throw it a good distance on dirt and see how it does. but that wouldnt be good for the remington eh? </div></div>
This is one of the absolute dumbest things I've ever heard. I may not baby my firearms but I damn sure don't go trying to destroy them. But then again everybody knows that a rifle isn't worth a shit if you can't pack the barrel full of mud and still shoot 1/2 min. Sounds like a serious tool streak to me. </div></div>

yep... im a tool... lol... thats why i wear sandals to the range and have my wife pack me a sack lunch....

is this opposite land?... did the deffinition of a tool change to the advantage of the actual tools?.... i think your hands are drying out go put some more lotion on soft hands!

and never did i say i WANT to destroy my rifle... the idea is to beat it up and have it remian in proper working condition... shit that breaks is replaced with stronger.

i dont want to alarm you but there are these things called elements out there in this place called nature... its really really scary! just stay at the air conditioned range.

have fun bench boy..



TOOL = guy who only shoots from a bench and has butler creek caps on his scope...
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

Intentionally beating on a firearm is absolutely idiotic & carelessness has no place in shooting sports or hunting situations. Your weapon should be very well taken care of as if your life depends on it. I sure as hell don't want to miss my one shot opportunity due to being a dumbass & using my rifle as a walking stick or machete to make my way through the brush.

Obviously shit happens out in the field & you can fall & cause a blunt impact to your scope, etc.

I had a beautiful 243 Win Model 70 with at least AA Claro Walnut & 3.5-10 Leupold VX3 as my first hunting rifle when I was 14 or 15. On Christmas Eve we were out blowing up Jack rabbits & calling up coyotes in deep snow & frigid temperature. Hiking back towards the truck to head to a new spot I fell into a snow covered hole up to my nuts which hurt like a bitch & my VX3 absorbed the blow which dented the hell out of the front bell & scratched the beautiful stock. After being pissed off & walking off the shot in the nuts I tested out my POA/POI & it had not moved.

I push my rifles to the limit & ask for a lot in return but I am very careful with them. It is quite an investment to build a great rifle so take care of your shit.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

Leupold sent me a brand new vx3 as well when I sent it in for repair which I fully intended to pay for as I documented what had happened.. that is service beyond expectation! Buying reputable gear pays off in the long run as they usually wont leave you hanging.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Intentionally beating on a firearm is absolutely idiotic & carelessness has no place in shooting sports or hunting situations</div></div>

like i said ive done this with assault rifles and things like that but most my gear gets enough of an asswhooping just being along for the trip and i dont plan to intentionally throw my $2200 dollar rifle in the dirt but i wont cry if my sling breaks and it hits the dirt and then the guy behind me trips over it and flips it back into the air and it lands on a rock.

Heres a picture of my glock after a 3 hour hike through 8ft high nearly inpenetrable brush in a thunderstorm riding on my hip. this is what the REM700 can expect to get aswell. it had shit jammed in ever internal part of the gun. (normal usage)

glock.jpg
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

I sure wasn't directing my posy towards you. Just a general statement. ... I apologize if you took it that way I too have had my Glock 17 in some nasty shit!!!!!
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

oh ok.. no worries..

i guess my point is that these guns are suppose to go anywhere you go... and in some situations "taking care" of your rifle is impossible. some times its all you can do just to get where your going and the rifle will have to fend for itself.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

watching my partner toss his Surgeon + S&B on a concrete deck, then vigorously scrape it back and forth, followed by writing his name on the deck w his suppressor was fun and dropped some jaws.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

Why I remember the date I don't know, but on Feb 13th 2002 I smoked a pair of coyotes about a mile away from my brand new 02 Cummins Diesel & found myself with a 13lb tac driver 22-250 & 2 beautiful dogs with muddy shitty snow to walk back in. Very long story short I was soaked in blood head to toe & I fell in some mud completely covering my gun & especially the Mark 4 6.5-20. I literally about gave up with sore arms & a wind chill freezing my ass off. So, I get to the truck & literally stripped down to my boxers & drove all the way from Twin Falls to Salt Lake.

It took me 2 hour to carefully clean the dried on mud off of my rifle & then skin two coyotes to take to the taxidermist.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive seen a Nightforce take a decent pounding in the flesh... to cut a long story short the rifle was hanging out of the vehicles window when it went over a giant pothole.
</div></div>

That shits fun!!
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

I'm half and half on this thread. I want my stuff to work no matter what but if i have something that's going to put up with all that abuse then it's likely very expensive. And damaging that very expensive equipment is very hard to bring myself to do if I can't replace it. I would love to conduct torture tests but not with my own stuff. It all holds very high sentimental value to me and it would be like taking the very last item you have to remember a famliy member by, lets say something like your great grandfather's watch, and destroying it just to make sure it can hold up to that kind of abuse. It's rediculous and foolhardy in my opinion but hey, that's just me. You're obviously different than me and that's okay! We're all different for a reason and i respect those differences. But i also respect my firearms and couldn't be without them. And by doing these torture tests i fear that they might not hold up and if that were to happen i wouldn't have anything left to cherish.

On the Glock, wow. That's all i have to say, just wow.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

There is a difference between USE and ABuse.

I use my rifles. They are tools. They are not safe queens. They get wet, muddy, snowed on, etc. On more than one occasion they have gotten dropped on the deck, slammed into a door, etc, etc.

If my AI falls over onto the pavement, do I cry? Nope. I say "oh shit" pick it up, check it and drive on. I don't smile when I do damage to my rifle. I don't have another $4K in my back pocket to replace it if it breaks. I spray paint my rifles with krylon. I drag then through the brush. I store one in the back of a police car more than in the house. However I treat them with the respect a precision tool deserves.

In the course of evaluating a weapon system or optic some damage may be done. That's the nature of the beast. However that's not the goal.

Bear in mind, this is coming from the guy who usually has the most beat-up rig on the line.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a difference between USE and ABuse.

I use my rifles. They are tools. They are not safe queens. They get wet, muddy, snowed on, etc. On more than one occasion they have gotten dropped on the deck, slammed into a door, etc, etc.

If my AI falls over onto the pavement, do I cry? Nope. I say "oh shit" pick it up, check it and drive on. I don't smile when I do damage to my rifle. I don't have another $4K in my back pocket to replace it if it breaks. I spray paint my rifles with krylon. I drag then through the brush. I store one in the back of a police car more than in the house. However I treat them with the respect a precision tool deserves.

In the course of evaluating a weapon system or optic some damage may be done. That's the nature of the beast. However that's not the goal.

Bear in mind, this is coming from the guy who usually has the most beat-up rig on the line.</div></div>




i love you man.........................
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

The "stuff" should be able to withstand abuse because in the field accidents happen. Abusing the stuff deliberately and regularly is stupid (and increases the chances that something will give in the most inappropriate time).
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

I don't abuse my rifles but they don't get babied. I'm with some others here. Hard honest use is one thing but I don't understand pure abuse. They're precision tools (tough ones) and I treat them like they are. My duck gun, well it's been through hell. It's looked a lot worse than the Glock. I've had to slosh it around in swamp water to get mud, grass and God knows what out of it. It gets cleaned before and after duck season and a LOT of oil and a little grease during huting season.
Some might call this abuse:
IMG_0803.jpg
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LHill22250</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold sent me a brand new vx3 as well when I sent it in for repair which I fully intended to pay for as I documented what had happened.. that is service beyond expectation! Buying reputable gear pays off in the long run as they usually wont leave you hanging. </div></div>
I had a similar experience with a leupold. All I had to do was box it up and send it to them. It came back in a couple weeks good as brandy new. Their not my favorite scope, but their customer service rocks.

riding in 4 wheeler handlebar gun racks knock more scopes off than anything I know.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

You drop your weapon you follow it. I guess if the only consequence for breaking your shit is missing out on some ducks than break away.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kentactic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
funny side story... this morning i was putting all the crap in my jeep and rested the rifle on the back bumper and walked away and the shocks that hld up my hatch are weak when its cold and that fucker slammed on the rifle in its padded fabric case... i had to laugh.

the way i see it.. if i cant beat the shit out of it and have it remain reliable then i dont even want to touch it... i usually take what ever firerm i buy and throw it a good distance on dirt and see how it does. but that wouldnt be good for the remington eh? </div></div>

Funny story
I was driving down a bumpy road and my rifle bounces from a big hole and my Seekins scope rings break. It was a big bounce and the rifle went up off the floor and slammed back down. I put the USO SN-3 in some USO rings and the scope was fine, and very close to zero, only out a bit on windage.
IMG_1779.jpg

You can expect stuff to break if it gets slammed too hard.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

I'm sorry if my post added to any controversy here. To me, 'wise use' means taking prudent care to avoid unnecessary abuse. What happens, happens; but it's never part of the goal. Hope this clarifies things for somebody at least.

Greg
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

my gear doesn't get the white glove treatment, but I don't unecesseraly abuse it either, so far so good.
 
Re: Rifles Abuse

It is amazing what abuse gear will take, and again amazing when something relatively minor will screw things up.

I had a Nightforce I had to send in to have a lens rebedded after it lost zero. This happened after I knocked the rifle over when it was resting on its bipod. Looked like a complete nothing, but it was enough.
 
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