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Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

tbone40x

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 29, 2008
108
22
53
Austin, TX
As I sit here writing this AAR, I think of other classes I’ve had and the post-class glow we get when we complete a course where we are better from it. I can say that this is certainly the case here as well. The RO PR1-2 combo course is worth every penny if you are serious about becoming a better rifleman.

The class was Monday-Saturday. I drove down on Sunday and stayed in the team-room. Met up with some guys who were there already. Some more guys showed up as the evening went on and some came in on Monday morning. The class started at 0830 and finished up around 1700 every day, cept Sat.

The class itself was great! If you take an honest approach, then you can use what you learn to get a good true representation of where you are with a precision rifle and determine what you need to work on. We started in the classroom with a safety briefing. Once that was complete, we were on the 100yd range for a 5 shot eval. I shot like crap for the eval. Dunno why, but my fundamentals were all off. Once complete we were back in the classroom for the rest of the morning till Lunch. We went over the fundamentals of marksmanship, trigger school, body position, scope adjustments, pre and post-shot checklists, range estimation methods, short class on wind and some external ballistics lecture. It was quick and well presented.

That was the last time we were in the classroom till graduation. Every other lecture or training cycle was on the range. We spent the afternoon working on our fundamentals and zero’s. There was some working out issues with rifles and leveling scopes and such. The instructors would shoot the rifles if there was any question about issues.
The rest of the week we would check our zero’s in the morning, then move onto other drills. The 20 round 1” dot drill was and is humbling if any part of your fundamentals are off. This is where you shoot one round per dot. I’m going to focus in on this drill for the next 3 months of rifle shooting till I can get it down. We would single load and put the ammo behind us to we’d have to get up and re-create our position each time. This is where it was apparent that I should have been shooting a bolt gun as my gas gun skills are weak. But as they say, fundamentals are fundamentals so it was certainly the nut behind the rifle. We then shifted to our left side and shot a 2” dot. Then onto the 1” dot drill from the left side.

We moved onto positional shooting using a sling and the barricades. I liked using the rear bag on the folded bipod a lot for some of the positional and barricade shots. The 550 support cord was great and I’m going to add it to my rifle for stability on awkward support. We shot from both the right and left sides throughout the course, except for prone on the tower.

Throughout the week, we did 100yd movers (hard), 100yd movers kneeling with a 550 cord support on the barricades, positional shooting at 100yds, movers at 400, 500 and 600. We went to the tower and got our dope out to 1K.
We determined our hold overs and hold unders for the Chaos drill. We dialed our 400yd dope and engaged 5 targets. The 1st one was a 400yd steel mover, then ~230yd tiny steel using a hold under, then a ~330yd tiny steel again using hold under. The 4th target was a ~620yd Larue, then back to the mover for the 5th shot. On the last day this was one of the competition drills and was shot in 60 secs.

We did unknown distance on the tower, then moved into the field and did UKD from the berms. The wind was howling and the Schmage was a godsend during these conditions.

Movers. We did 100yd movers first on 5in dots. This was hard since the ~ 2-3mph target moves pretty fast at 100yds. We learned what our lead should be by measuring our shots with our reticles. Then we could apply that during a couple of runs. The semi-auto’s allowed for a larger volume of fire, but some my shots were out of the dot so I’m not sure that is that big of an advantage. We moved back to 500 prone on a steel mover. Then back to 600 with a smaller steel mover. We also did a 100yd barricade 550 cord supported head mover (only the head was shown, head on a stick) with a paper backing to show the hits after we were done. One of my primary reasons for coming to the class was to shoot movers and I got my fill, and whetted my appetite for more movers. I need to figure out a mover setup for one of the bays at BOTW maybe, or maybe a .22 mover setup for out there.

The Mousetrap was a wooden structure in front of a separate ~100yd range with a moving target. We shot it with the target static at first, then moving. The Mousetrap made you crawl into awkward positions and made you shoot from both sides. This was a great drill, especially when the target was moving.

Favorite Drills: Chaos, Movers at 500 and 600, Mousetrap.

You walk everywhere with your gear and rifle. A backpack for your gear and sling for the rifle are a must. We did everything muzzle down except when on the top deck of the tower where there was the other half of the class on the 1st level. Its ~ 400 yds to the tower from the classroom. Not a lot of walking overall, but be prepared to hump your gear around.

I am very pleased with the quality of instruction, atmosphere, volume I learned and believe I received more than what I paid in value. I will probably do this course again with a bolt-gun.

Bolt vs. Gas Precision rifles: The instructors feel that it is a better idea to come to these classes with a good bolt-gun preferably mag fed, but not necessary. Movers are where a detachable mag makes a big difference. The reason for bringing a bolt gun is that it is easier to learn the fundamentals due to the single recoil impulse. They talked about the needing of ~ 9000 repetitions to correctly build the neuro pathways to really learn a task. If you start with a simpler to learn rifle (bolt), then it is easier to learn and then transition later if needed. I have to agree after running a gas gun through this course. I should have run a bolt-gun and will when I take this course again. Once I get my fundamentals back in check, I can work on the gas gun again. If you can already run a bolt-gun to a high standard, then I think the ease of follow-up shots and firepower of a gas gun trumps the bolt in all but 900yd+ shooting.

My total Round Count: 557

Notes
• DPMS 308 rifle ran just as well as the OBR (Marine Sgt. running the DPMS) and held sub MOA.
• 15 year old with a PSS in an AICS chassis and NF F1 beat all of us on the last day competition. He cleaned his 100yd mover. That was the first time that has happened since they have been running that drill.
• I had issues with sympathetic squeeze / preshot relaxation during the 1st few days. My dot drills showed this and once I realized it, they pulled in some. Still need more work on this.
• Dot drills work in showing issues with your NPA and trigger manipulation.
• Chaos drill rocks
• Movers rock
• If you jerk the trigger or have other fundamental brain-farts, you owe the staff an 18 pack of warm Corona. You can find this at HEB…

Equipment list:
• OBR with AAC 762SD Suppressor, Nightforce F1 3.5x15 MLR
o 2x Larue Mags
o 3x PMags
• 40x in McMillan A4 stock, Vortex FFP 4-16x50 MRAD
o X3 AI Mags
• Eberlestock GS2 backpack
• 680 Rounds. Reloads, new LC Match 93 Brass. RL15, 175SMK, Fed 210M.
• TAB gear slings on both.
• TAB gear rear bag. Refilled with less compressible fill.
• TAB gear shooting mat.
• Nalgene bottles for water.
• Oakley glasses.
• Lowe boots
• Long sleeve t-shirts
• Combat shirts. Worked well, had some extra elbow material.
• Schmage +100! If you go, you need to bring this…
• Peltor Ear-Pro.
• TW-25B lube worked like a charm.

Equipment Issues
• 40x bolt handle broke at the end of day 5. This was a new handle that was silver-soldered on last year.
• Extractor or ejector on 40x wouldn’t work all the time. We saw this on other Rem 700s. This is why there is a mod to the 700 bolt to increase the reliability of the extraction/ejection.
• Bolt catch spring in OBR failed or was fouled. Didn’t impact the functioning of the rifle during the course.
• Suppressor cover slipped forward, even after being tied. This was my fault as I slipped it fwd when I thought it was touching the barrel. No impact to the course.
• Other student’s LWRC 308 Piston rifle wouldn’t hold better than ~ 3 MOA with the instructor shooting. He borrowed my 40x for the course (and broke off the bolt handle ).
• Butler-creek scope caps on OBR/NF failed. Both the front and back broke at the hinge. This maybe me, or a combo of putting the rifle in the Eberlestock pack repeatedly. This is the 2nd set I’ve broke on the OBR.

Team Room notes
• Barracks style living. The beds are comfortable and water is hot.
• Bring a cooler for beer. The fridge fills up fast.
• Frozen food seemed to work well. Eggs and breads for b-fast or frozen Jimmy Dean sandwiches.
• There was a Bunn single serve coffee brewer that worked well. (http://www.bunnathome.com/products/single-serve/my-cafe-home-pod-brewer) you could get the little packs at HEB in town.
• Get gal or 2.5 gal water from HEB in Kingsville.
• Bedding is provided and a washer and dryer are outside. Could have brought less clothing and just washed at night.
• Charcoal grill available. We ended up going into town for dinner every night.
• Showers are mostly private, bring shower shoes. There was plenty of hot water.

Equipment lessons learned / Equip Next steps
• Accuracy International rifles work (as they should for the price).
• I’m going to sell some rifles and gear to get a 24” AI AE in 308. There is a reason these work…
• May stay with Nightforce F1 on the AI AE. Or may go to Premier. Out of 16 students: ~10 had NF, 2 Premier, 2 S&B and 2 Vortex. No known scope issues on any of these during the course.
• Staying with reloading. My loading technique and combination worked well.
• Shot a lot of the static without eyepro. Seemed to work better.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Some pics:

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Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

AH!!!! the Mouse trap..... fond memories of Jacob & Tony yelling at me to breathe...
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

doc... i am not reading all of that... you must be out of your mind...
The course was simply fantastic, and the entire staff of R/O are top notch. Wish I was back and it was 0830.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

This was my second class at Rifles Only. I attended the Snipershide basic class in February of 2009.

The facility at Rifles only has definitely improved. Rifles Only has added a building that houses the classroom, pro shop, and their offices. The bulding has a large open bay with picnic tables and a gym. Outstanding.

The level of instruction that you receive at Rifles Only is phenomenal. There were 4 instructors with us at all times. 4 to 1 ratio. The instructors jumped in and corrected all manner of things, from body position to trigger control. They worked their way into positions to best evaluate your shooting.

I took my 15 year old son, Doc referred to him in this OP. I taught him every thing I knew to this point and felt he needed Jacob's watchful eye for him to progress. He shot a Remington 700 AAC-sd in an AICS chassis with a NF F1 scope with the MLR2 reticle. The gun is stock, except for GA Precision installing a R&d Rapid break, tuning the trigger to 2.5 lbs. and installing a Badger Bolt knob. I had the gun cerakoted black.

We shoot Hornady 168 AMAX TAP ammo. Interesting note, on his 20" barrel the 168 ammo went transonic at 900 yards. Jacob took care of this and offered us 175 SMK M118LR loads. This ammo out of his 20" barrel worked well at 900 and 1,000 yards.

I learned a ton, and did alot of different drills than my first trip.

We did ranging and shooting from the down range berms. It is an extremely dusty and dirty environment. Both our guns, Remington 700's worked well. However I may look into a different lubricant on the bolt body. I currently use TW25-b grease. The fine dust and dirt collected a little. I amy need to wipe more off of the body. Anyone who has recommendations feel free to chime in.

The best thing about the class is the quality of people in this sport. After the first day you really build a bond with your class mates. Everyone really tries to be encouraging and help each other out in any way. Take for example Doc, the OP, he loaned his 40X to a class mate to keep him running and runnning well at that with a borrowed gun.

If you are thinking about training at Rifles Only, do not hesitate. The techniques work. They will make you a better shooter. The facility is awesome.

Jacob, Lisa, Lindy, Tony,and Wynn, Thank you!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Tbone, I shot all my life but didn't really learn how to shoot until I took some classes at RO. They got me on track. I also bought an AIAE after my last class there. Didn't want to chance a breakdown. Very good AAR.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Lots of valuable information in this AAR. Thanks for sharing!

Seems like it would make financial sense to start with an AI instead of getting a cheaper rifle and dumping hundreds/thousands into that rifle before giving up and buying an AI.

—Andreas
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Yeah, the OBR shoots better than me for sure. I do think now that I would have done better in the course if I had worked a bolt action.

Andreas, starting with something proven is never a bad idear. Its hard to justify the initial expense though if you are not already really into this. I think most people get the bug with a lesser rifle, then upgrade when they are serious about their shooting. I'm really happy with the OBR and know it was also a good investment.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Hey Guys-

Not much to add as that was a great write up. I'll just say that this experience at RO was fantastic and I'm a much better shooter for it.

The staff and curriculum are top notch and I'd like to thank Jacob, Tony, Winn and Lindy one more time for all their help, instruction and patience with my dumb ass. Also, thanks to Lisa for making everything run smooth behind the scenes.

It was great to meet and shoot with all of you guys, and I hope to cross paths again soon.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tbone40X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice, here is another with some "motivation". Caution, not safe for work...
http://youtu.be/pE1En_NA7ng</div></div>LOL! Nice camera work on that one.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_Lamz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lol did yall eat at Big House Burgers every night? </div></div>BTW, we call it Big ASS Burgers.
grin.gif


I dropped in for Fiday and Saturday, and what continues to amaze me about these PR classes is the quality of student that Rifles Only attracts: There guys were intelligent, motivated, competent, came with an open mind and were eager to learn from the instructors (of which I am not one). It was truly a pleasure getting to know each of you. Well done to all!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackinfl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I currently use TW25-b grease. The fine dust and dirt collected a little. I amy need to wipe more off of the body. Anyone who has recommendations feel free to chime in.</div></div>Bolt Slick.

PS - Little Jack is a natural, he smoked the 100 yard mover better than I have seen since Charlie K's run at 400 with one hit and one on the way shooting a Noveske.
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Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Charlie did smoke that thing, didnt he.

RO training is top notch, without a doubt. The bonus to it all is that you will rarely (if ever) find a better group of people to train with and beside.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bonus to it all is that you will rarely (if ever) find a better group of people to train with and beside.</div></div>You will rarely, if ever, find a better group of people, period.
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Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

The clients and staff of Rifles Only are among the finest people I've ever known. The Rifles Only family is what keeps me here, when I could be sitting on the beach in Rockport drinking my liver into oblivion. That they share my passion for efficiently and effectively shooting a precision rifle and other firearms is a mere bonus.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Lindy... do know that out of all the rookie shooters (all of us) that shot the last day... a gas gun, though lost to a 15 year old, did finish 3rd out of the class.
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Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a gas gun...did finish 3rd out of the class.</div></div>

And, of course, it was driven by a Marine.
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I have no problems with semi-auto .308s, in the right hands, and in the right place.

An initial precision rifle course is not the best place, nor would it be in the right hands.

Once a person has learned the fundamentals of shooting a precision rifle, a semiauto is an option, and can be very effective at moderate distances. Beyond, say, 700 yards, they are a disadvantage.

I have found it useful when considering a task, or a set of tasks, to pick the right tools. When the zombies come out, I'll want my gas gun. Until then, I'll be running a bolt.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

I will not lie... after playing on the AI's and chassid up 700's they seem a lot easier to drive. I noticed if i don't pre-load and pull to shoulder like hell my groups opened up ALOT with the semi.

Though 13.5 mil come up @ 1000 is like dropping mortars at a grand.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Awesymoto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Though 13.5 mil come up @ 1000 is like dropping mortars at a grand. </div></div>
Yikes -- I thought my come up has big (39.5 MOA ~ 11.2 mil).

This was a great class, one which I intend to repeat. Thanks to Jacob, Lisa, Lindy, Tony, Wynn, and all the students who made the course so good.

Tbone -- thanks for letting me squeeze off a couple mags of ammo in the OBR. It's a totally cool gun. An AR-10 is likely in the future cards (either an OBR or a GAP-10), but for now I have much to learn with my Crusader. I also need to look into the whole trust thingie to get a suppressor. It's unfortunate my county sheriff seems to consider cans to be the devil incarnate.

I was a little tardy on the first morning and made the less-than-brilliant move of plopping down on the far side of the field. As in the side they start with for shooting order. Being shooter #1 for virtually every exercise and likely being one of the greenest high-power shooters in the class had its interesting moments. If we learn more by our mistakes, I came home with a boat load of learning.

I enjoyed all the drills -- well maybe except the one from the top of the loose berm, where gusty winds pushed dirt into my eyes, mouth, ears, undies, and the gun's action. The Chaos (aka "moving <span style="font-style: italic">cows </span>") drill was cool, however I choked on the final competition day. Actually, the last day I choked on everything from the tower, due to being a complete sheep dip with my bipod setup. I doubt I'll make that mistake again. I liked the long distance movers, but I totally sucked on the 100 yard movers. My skills of tracking movers with a shotgun or a pistol didn't translate well to a precision rifle. Ruh-roh. The mousetrap was fun (especially with Tony in my head), but it wasn't my finest hour for hitting the target. Slung positions were OK, as I've done them in 3 and 4 position smallbore rifle.

I have a new found appreciation for both the mil system and first focal plane reticles. My MOA/MOA scope with a second focal plane provided a few challenges. As in,
- << shot fired >>
- "Increase your wind hold by .2 mils."
- "Lindy, what's that in MOA?"
- << crickets >>
- "Nevermide, I think I have it."
- << shot fired >>
- "Decrease your wind hold by .2 mils."
OK, so my mental math skills aren't always the best. But Lindy knows how to call 'em.

I think the greatest thing I'll take from the instruction is sticking to the fundamentals of marksmanship. When I followed them to a T, my shooting was pretty decent. But when I'd fall back on old habits (slapping the trigger, holding my breath, not lining up behind the gun) the results were uninspiring.

Hopefully I will get to shoot with all of you again sometime down the road.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

ropegun,

That's the best first post I have read in a long time. Nice to meet you, and welcome aboard!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

.


Well, sorry to dig up this post, but only today I knew about it. And I could not pass this oportunity to say a big THANKS to all RIFLES ONLY staff (Jacob, Lisa, Lindy, Tony Burkes and Wyin) and all my classmates!!!

This was really a great experience, specially for me, after travelling some thousands miles and with not much experience in this type of rifle shooting (I shot mostly short and mid range F-Class).
When I arrive I found a wonderfull facility, with lots of places to shoot and various distances and grades of challenge. The instructors had a ton of information and technics and were always available, answering and showing everything I asked or did not understood from the first (and second and third) time.
I can not express how thankfull I am all for all the patience and knowledge they gave for me, and I can say, for all classmates.

My classmates were great and contributed a lot for the easy and friendly atmosphere during all week. They brought some wonderfull equipments that I only read about it, and all of them were kind enough to let me (and others) look and shoot. So, I shot an exceptional La Rue OBR from Tbone40X (thanks!!!) at 500 yards plates, also an AI AX from Tony Burkes (read: TAB GEAR) and of course, some rifles from Jacob and Lisa. In fact, I used the “old and trusty” AI AW from RO on its 12th barrel and aprox. 80.000 shots through it… and still working without a single flaw and putting 5 rounds on about 0,4 MOA with the fast and furious Cor Bon High Velocity ammo Jacob puts available to me (175gr. HPBT at 2.740 fps!!!).

Even using the borrowed excelent equipment from RO, the PR 1&2 is about the SHOOTER mostly. The example is the JACKINFL 15 years old soon, that took 1st in class and shoot an incredible PERFECT 100 yard mover with about 10 shots in 2 or 3 inches, all inside the dot.
Of course, a good and accurate rifle helps, a great and reliable scope too, but remember that JACKINFL soon was shooting a basically standard factory barreled action Remington 700 and beat shooters with some incredible rifles and scopes, like AW, DTA, LA RUE OBR, AI AX etc.
This kid really shots good and has some good teachers!

I hope this year I can go back and take PR 3 and 4!


Here are some photos I (and Tony, thanks!) took during classes:

Movers at 500 yards:
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Left Hand (support side) shooting:
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Some cool gear:
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A video taken during Moving Chaos so you can get an idea of the wind…

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Movers at 100 yards, kneeling barricade position (only upper half of the head counts, this shooter got 2 hits and the slightly larger size of a fist target):

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Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Thanks for the AAR since I am planning on taking the class in Sept. For those that have taken the 6 day course, would you recommend it to someone with no formal training? It looks like most have had some sort of training before hand. I'd hate to have to hold others back.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

An older thread I know but could not agree with the comments more. RO is a top tier organization, excellent instructors and great people. I came away from my class with a much better understanding of how to do it right. Now all I have to do is dry fire until I can't get it wrong.

Breath...sight & trigger...

Best time of my life, definitely a bucket experience and I really like the 3 little dogs that would occasionally beg to have their ears scratched.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 021411</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the AAR since I am planning on taking the class in Sept. For those that have taken the 6 day course, would you recommend it to someone with no formal training? It looks like most have had some sort of training before hand. I'd hate to have to hold others back.
</div></div>

021411,
I would strongly suggest you take the 6 day class. You will not hold anyone back. The instructors will make sure you are grasping the concepts and can execute the fundamentals. I feel that a formal class is the best investment you can make in training and rapidly advancing your skill level.

Also, may I recommend the On line training that is offered here on this site. I got lucky as the on-line training started shortly after I returned home in 2009 from my first class.

I used what I learned and the on-line training to teach my son. He is referenced several times above by other students in our class. He's 15 and won the last day of the competition shooting a stock Remington 700 in and AICS. I taught him everything I learned and felt that for him to progress farther he needed to go to Rifles Only himself. I think the trip paid off.

If this does not convince you pick up the phone and call out there and speak to Jacob. Tell him where you are at in your shooting. He will not give you bad information. He is really a good person and is dedicated to making the student a safe and proficient shooter.

Respectfully,
Jack
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 021411</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd hate to have to hold others back. </div></div>I agree with Jack: You won't be holding anyone back, Jacob does an evaluation at the beginning of every class and brings people along accordingly.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

I would agree with Jack and Graham both. I would also agree with Jack in that if you're new to precision rifle the online training will get you familiar with what is going on even before you get there.

The student to instructor ratio is usually such that if a student is having trouble grasping a concept on the range it's not a problem to give them more one on one help until they are comfortable with the concept being worked on at the moment.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 021411</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the AAR since I am planning on taking the class in Sept. For those that have taken the 6 day course, would you recommend it to someone with no formal training? It looks like most have had some sort of training before hand. I'd hate to have to hold others back.
</div></div>

Don't sweat this at all. I had no real experience before I went, I was not awesome, but learned a TON and had a great time. You are better off going in without bad habits as you will learn how to do it right from the start. What you should be worried about is how much money you will spend, during, and after the course as you will get to see all kinds of cool gear!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Good review and responses. I am hoping to take the class with my wife this fall. Many questions were answered.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Just don't get hurt feelings when your wife outshoot you, by a wide margin.
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Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

She is a good shot. It sucks having to buy gear twice(she gets the better stuff also).
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Thanks for the heads up and reassurance. Looks like I'll be planning a 6 day vacation to Kingsville.
God Bless Texas!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
....You are better off going in without bad habits as you will learn how to do it right from the start... </div></div>

+1...then practice, practice.

Best training money I ever spent!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

What a great thread! It really reaffirms my decision to try and take a RO PR1&2 course this year!

Although I am not new to shooting, I am fairly new to precision shooting. I've had an interest in precision for about 5-6 years now, but as a recently graduated college student I never had the funds to pick up the sport. Now that I have graduated, I am starting with a very lucrative job (based out of Houston, TX) which will give me a decent chunk of disposable income. I already have a precision rifle build in the works (my dream rifle no less!) and I am ready to finally put all the theory I've been reading on precision shooting to actual practice.

I am hoping to attend both a RO precision rifle 1 & 2 course, as well as a magpul dynamics basic precision rifle course this year. Thanks again for all the reviews, and hopefully I will see a few of you on the firing line!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

What kind of ammo are you guys running in the class? Regular match ammo? I plan on slowly stocking up on the FGMM 175's as money permits.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

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I used what Rifles Only issued me... Cor Bon High Velocity .308win, with Sierra 175gr. Matchking at 2.740fps!!!

P1010826.jpg
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

I'm thinking of planning maybe to take PR1 during spring break this year if one is open. First trying to get in better shape. Gaining some muscle tone back that i lost from coming from the farm back to school, and going to start running for cardio and stamina.

Going to look into it as i'd be going alone. I don't have any friends that like to do this sort of thing with the passion i do.

Great write up looks like a lot of fun.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

I'm in the same boat. I know of only one other close friend that enjoys stuff like this. Sadly enough once he got married it was game over.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 021411</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in the same boat. I know of only one other close friend that enjoys stuff like this. Sadly enough once he got married it was game over. </div></div>

Same here. Sounds like a bunch of decent people do these courses, so I don't think it'll be an issue meeting new people to shoot with!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

I just looked at the calender spring break week is closed
frown.gif
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

good aar! thanks for breaking it down in detail.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Great AAR. Thanks for giving some insight on what to expect. Got the APR 30 course coming up and can't wait. Finally decided on getting some formal training. Will be my first class on precision shooting. Hoping to learn enough to translate this training to an ethical hunter application. Any one else got the Apr 30 course lined up?
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Would a .260 be good for the class or are .308's the norm?

I'm assuming a mil/mil FFP scope would be way to go?

Would be interested what people have spent in ammo costs in RO courses, seems like it would be a big portion of the costs?

Thanks, want to take one of these courses.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

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I spent about U$500,00 on 500 rounds of Black Hills match ammo, that the good people at RO made avaialable.

I agree that a Mil/Mil scope is the best option.

I think that a .308win or a .260rem are fine. But the knowledge on the .308win trajectories and wind call of the instructors are amazing, they have everything on theirs minds for fast answers and calls.

Also, I think that .308win ammo is cheapier than .260rem match ammo, but I may be wrong.
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

Ammo certainly isn't cheap! If you shoot 308, you can pretty much figure on a $1/round.
As for which caliber; anything over .243 will probably do, but as mentioned before, 308 is usually a little cheaper to shoot. Plus, if you get good with .308, the other "fast" calibers will be even easier!
Looking forward to seeing you guys in a few months!
 
Re: Rifles Only PR1-2 AAR 11/28/11-12/03/11

I spent about $450 for 500 rounds of FGMM 175 through Palmetto.

We had one 6.5CM shooter, who reloaded and used 140 Amax. Everyone else was .308 -- except for one student who borrowed Jacob's 7WSM, after his own gun went down. The 6.5CM shooter was familiar with his gun and thus knew the elevation and wind pretty well. IIRC the 6.5CM had elevation and wind corrections at 1,000 yards that were maybe 70-75% of my .308. The flatter shooting 6.5CM had an advantage for shooter errors in elevation (unknown distance) and wind calls.

A mil/mil FFP scope is probably easier to deal with, but MOA/MOA RFP still works. My errors were really caused by the indian, not the arrow. Shoot with whatever you already own.

I enjoyed PR1-2 so much that I'm doing it again when Jacob & crew travel to Colorado in June. We will soon see if I retained anything from Kingsville.

FWIW, I have a boat load of FGMM 168 on hand. I found out first hand 168 doesn't fly well to 1,000 yards at sea level, but it might be acceptable at 4,500 feet altitudes. Time will tell.