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Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

texasredneck

texasredneck

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 19, 2009
0
0
Houston, Texas
Bit of a newb to tactical bolt gun. A little more of CQB carbine and handgun guy. So I says to myself, "self, you should get some professional training", to wit I locate this place called Rifles Only. Sounds pretty catchy and is 4 hours from home. GTG. Amass a bunch of gear and sign up. Head to south Tx with new kit, bunch of ammo and an open mind.

What transpired over the course of 6 days was nothing short of amazing. There may be places that are prettier, but I have never had instruction from a more singularly dedicated group of people than I got at R.O.

So self, what did you learn?

If you aren't safe you get to go home. Listen to your intructor. Rifle slung, mag out, bolt up, finger straight, rifle slung over your shoulder.


Frank and Jacob secretely own and operate a Red Bull and Dos XX distributorship on the side. Slapping the trigger either earns you the right to tote the "PIMP" cup (really more of a chalise) or you must buy Dos XX 12 packs or Red Bull/Vitamin Water to avoid the humiliation......."DON"T SLAP THE TRIGGER!!!!" Oh yeah. It can also result in pushups for the team.

Build the grip from the trigger back...and build it quickly.NOW! NOW! NOW!

If you are told to get behind your weapon and send rounds down range in a limited time frame...no one cares if you just dropped your kit and rifle into a pile of South Texas man eating fire ants. Shut up and put rounds on target.

Fire ants hurt right away. Chiggers in your pants hurt days later....

Wind: 12-20mph all day every day. "the bullet does not lie"

If you think you have your kit sorted, just run it a few days and then re-evaluate. Likely that you will be selling some stuff when you get home and buying stuff that works. Bager Bones suck as rear bags....and Oh Yeah, Frank and Jacob will tell you what parts of your kit suck and you will arrogantly deny it because you are emotionally attached to it. Later you will grovel and admit it and list it for sale on the Hide...Especially the TIS slings that get slung across the range in a TISsy fit when the shooter can't get hooked up the way he wants

Don't come to this facility if you haul safe queens. You will run your gear hard and stuff breaks. Learn what works and how to deal with it. Yep, stuff gets scratched too.

Don't think that this training is about lounging on a shooting mat slinging rounds down range with hate and disontent at KD targets 800+ yards away. Frank says: 1000 yards out an artillary strike can be phoned in. Wait until you run the room clearling and shooting from the windows of the shoot house and make 10 shots under duresss at less than 100 yards from all kinds of jacked-up non-prone off-hand positions. It's real. It happens that way. Practice it. Anyone can shoot prone...

Be Kind to your fellow shooters. When tossing big rounds with a muzzle break, the dust covers the shooters to the left and right. Sorry Doc, Sorry Jim.

Payback for them is when you rip off a few shots from inside the steel pipe through the berm with the muzzle brake and the concussion knocks you and the trainer goofy. Sorry Jacob...my ears stopped ringing yesterday... I think.Gotta get a can.


Ranger rules: No chicks allowed on campus anymore...don't ask.

You can hit moving 9x11 steel at 500 yards with a 13 mph wind. Just listen to your spotter. (thanks Frank)

Like minded people from all over the country make long distance trips to be in South Texas and they are all great people to get to know. I now have a dozen new friends.

The Chinese Elephant Alien People ate Brittney Spears....it's a conspiracy

Lastly, Frank, Jacob and Lisa are the most sqared away ego-less group of people that I have met in the training business. Thanks for the education and your patience.

Now if I can just retire and train full time.....
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Wow! I feel like I TIVO'd my week at RO and just ran it thru "at speed". Nicely done AAR, Tex.

No problem re the brake; I've pretty much stopped coughing up weed bits and dust -- breathing is a good thing........

One other addition -- "If you call it, it doesn't hurt your group..."

Oh, and I found their distribution site -- RO.com (Refreshments Only) -- good prices on beer and energy drinks; check it out.

Doc
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

they need to put out dvd's for us loser types who cant make it to these classes. jokes , behind the scenes are a must... we want the unedited version!
smile.gif
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Yep PR 1&2 is an awakening. You guys just thought the ticks and chiggers were bad. You only got the leftovers that didn't get on everybody at the Cup!!!
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Precision Rifle 1 and 2 May 11, 2009 through May 16, 2009
Also known as
How to take a sip from a Fire Hydrant.

Day 1

This is my summary observations of Rifle’s Only Precision 1 & 2 class that I had to opportunity to addend the week of May 11th through May 16th. I am overall “new” to the precision rifle game and through a series of discussions ascertained that I could collapse my learning curve and not build the bad habits that can ultimately lead to a frustrating experience with a precision rifle.

<span style="font-weight: bold">"Successful employment of the precision rifle is a lot more about thinking than it is about shooting"
-Jacob Bynum-</span>

The first part that Jacob and Frank made no apologies for is safety. The rules were very clearly spelled out and the consequences were very clear. You do it their way or you shake hands and walk away. The points were not open to discussion or interpretation.

The next step was we got the opportunity to go to the Carbine and pistol area and fire 5 rounds from the deck (100 yards) at a 1 MOA target. Jacob, Lisa, and Frank individually took the time to observe and document what they witnessed. All the skills; good, bad, and indifferent were open to review. The eleven students filed through the drill and this in turn developed an individual baseline to the skills each of us came with, our foundation or lack thereof.

At this point we returned to the classroom and began the teaching of the fundamentals of precision rifles. Each of us was provided a syllabus as to what we were expected to learn and to begin to engrain specific skills.
The first topic is "The Fundamentals of Marksmanship" and is in turn broken down into five primary subtopics that when employed properly are the fundamentals of how we drive these rifles. They are as follows;

• Natural Point of Aim. In the simplest form of a prone shooter the natural point of aim is where the shooter and rifle would naturally align. The weapon is pointed to the target and the body is pointed toward the weapon. We were reminded that we are not "little Green Army men". We position the rifle at the target and we get behind the rifle. We want to look at this as two equal and opposing forces. If the relationship between the target to the rifle and the rifle to the shooter is anything other than parallel the probability of missing has dramatically increased. Drills such as finding the target, placing it in the cross-hairs, and closing our eyes to confirm if there was any shift were expected.

• Sight Picture/Sight Alignment. The premise behind this is to get the proper eye relief and to set the proper diopter settings. You should have a clear picture with no donuts or shading. The proper setup of the optics is paramount to successful application of the precision rifle. The quote that both Jacob and Frank tried to instill into each of the students is,

<span style="font-weight: bold">“See the target with your eye, kill it with the scope”</span>

• Breathing. This simple action accounts for a significant amount of the problems that an inexperienced precision shooter has with proper shot placement. Jacob and Frank explain that the shooter needs to find and isolate their natural respiratory pause. That point in our breathing cycle in which we have breathed out without “forcing” the air out. We want to consider our bodies as a balloon. When we press the shot we want to be supported on our skeletal structure. We want to have the air out of your lungs without pressing the air out. We were instructed not to hold our breath and to find that 1 to 1 ½ second that we are at our most naturally compressed state to press the shot.

• Trigger Control. This is perhaps one of the most overlooked points in the implementation of the precision rifle. This is the point of human interface in which we can most directly control or influence (for good or bad) the internal ballistics of the bullet. We closely examined the biomechanics of the interface point between the trigger and the finger. It was impressed upon us the significance of coming back straight on the trigger and the significance it we don’t. We were all given a new mantra of <span style="font-weight: bold">“Don’t slap the trigger”</span> or <span style="font-weight: bold">“Don’t crush the trigger”. </span>Lateral inputs into the trigger would ultimately lead to shots going right or left. Using your index finger as a linear actuator became paramount (tip of index finger is perpendicular to the trigger through the entire press)

• Follow Through. This is the last influences we have as it relates to the ultimate successful placement of the projectile. The pressing of the trigger is not the end, it is merely the beginning. Until the bullet exits the barrel we are still influencing the ultimate and final location of the projectile. Don’t be so quick to run the bolt and chamber a new round that you screw up the shot you have just taken. Jacob sums this up with the statement,

<span style="font-weight: bold">“Drive the trigger right. Do not sacrifice the shot you have now for one you may or may not have in the future”</span>

These fundamentals are the foundation that we would spend the next several days ingraining into each of the students. The ultimate goal being that these become second nature. The analogy goes that without a firm foundation the rest of the skills will ultimately be for not.
These skills become the fundamentals when we move to the concept of “indexing” or making the best of what we have. In a field application of competition there is a high probability that we will not have the perfect prone shot. We will be stressed (internal or external stressors), we may be firing from a non-traditional position, etc. This is the time where we will index or make concessions to do the most with what we have.
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

The wisdom of the ages……

“Don’t run your kit like they run it at Rifles Only”

If you do you will most assuredly find the inherent flaws………
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

it was a very enjoyable class, although confusing at times with 11 guys named Charles, but I appreciate the nice write ups and we all hope everyone was able to take something positive away.

I would like to clarify a thing or two though,

1st - Britney Spears is a Goddess, vilified by a liberal press, so please don't speak ill of her, really she's just misunderstood. Charles, I'm talking you, cause you know you want her.

Lastly, when you get abducted by the Grays, and they bring you back to the future, you'll see they are really time traveling Chinese from the year 2509, so don't go calling my name out when they start to probe you, just lie there, breath, and eat your chow mein like a good boy.

Again, thanks to everyone for a safe and fun week.
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Sounds like everyone had a good week of training. Jacob and Frank do enjoy there DOS XX and RedBull. You guy are luck that the Starbucks is gone if not some of you would be going to get coffee for Frank.
cool.gif
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

I thought he said "Elephants with chinese's DNA dating brittney spears"!! anyone want to by a lupy? ishouldn't looked through Franks Premier. "DON'T SLAP THE TRIGGER"
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your trigger is not a "Ho", and you're not a Pimp, so don't Slap the Trigger... </div></div>

But if it were, and I was..... I could?
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brutus1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they need to put out dvd's for us loser types who cant make it to these classes. jokes , behind the scenes are a must... we want the unedited version!
smile.gif
</div></div>

Coming soon to a late night commercial near you:

Vince the Sham-wow! guy .......Now for only $19.95....Wannabe Snipers Gone Wild. You only thought you knew the whole story...Pimp Cups, slappin' triggers, preachers making beer runs. You get 90 minutes of un-edited craziness......You'll love my nuts.
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it was a very enjoyable class, although confusing at times with 11 guys named Charles, but I appreciate the nice write ups and we all hope everyone was able to take something positive away.

I would like to clarify a thing or two though,

1st - Britney Spears is a Goddess, vilified by a liberal press, so please don't speak ill of her, really she's just misunderstood. Charles, I'm talking you, cause you know you want her.

Lastly, when you get abducted by the Grays, and they bring you back to the future, you'll see they are really time traveling Chinese from the year 2509, so don't go calling my name out when they start to probe you, just lie there, breath, and eat your chow mein like a good boy.

Again, thanks to everyone for a safe and fun week. </div></div>

Can anyone spot the lie in this post? ...<span style="font-style: italic">The press is liberal</span>???
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StrikeHold</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Pimp Cup is real. </div></div>

You think he's lying? Would you rather buy beer or carry the cup?

aykens.jpg
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Additional points to ponder:

Prior to class-- buying all the crap you think you may need, then packing two of everything, only to find I didn't pack my tools. Crap.

Driving in to RO-- don't rely on your Garmin-- it will drop you in the middle of the wrong cow pasture. BTW, there were Zebras among us. Print the map from the website-- it will get you there.

Toss everything the NRA et al have taught you out the window. I'm an NRA certified instructor and coach (smallbore), but man, did I not have a clue, or what?

Make SURE you fire your rifle at least once prior to arriving at class. Being the last shooter kinda sucks. Of course, firing next to a wild Texas redneck with a .300 WM muzzle brake also sucks. Actually, firing anywhere on the line with a .300 WM muzzle brake sucks. I didn't know my teeth could vibrate like that.....

Make sure you don't put your ammo in your magazine backwards-- what doofus would do that???

Your equipment will break. Promise. No matter how much you paid for it, it will malfunction at some point. Get used to it.

Texas dust gets everywhere, in everything. Don't leave your windows cracked open upwind.

Ants hurt. "Oh, don't worry-- those are suger ants...." Please note my hide name. Spare me. They hurt when you get enough swarming all over you and your gear.

Tarantulas are kinda cool.

Scorpions are cool too, but don't tell a Texan you saw one.

26" barrels are great when you are laying down, but really are not designed to be used inside of a school bus. But I guess that was the point.

I'm not as young as I used to be.

I got out of there without buying any Dos XX or Redbull-- it's good to stay under the radar.

Make sure you send Frank emails everyday concerning Hide login errors. He lives for that. Trust me.

Although I was fortunate enough to have a hotel, most of the action occurred at the bunkhouse. Maybe next time. Well, maybe not....

Don't leave anything of value out in the open in town. One classmate had his rental car window shattered in broad daylight to steal his GPS unit. Apparently, it happens all the time, according to the LEO.

Don't shoot the cows. They don't like that.

One benefit of having a malfunctioning (i.e., extremely heavy) trigger-- it makes it harder to slap the trigger, since you have to put so much force behind it. I wouldn't recommend that, though.

Happy birthday, Hugh.
smile.gif


BTW, Jeff, I'll go $65 for that Leupold.
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

How were the screech owls acting? They are of concern for me.
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insectguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, firing next to a wild Texas redneck with a .300 WM muzzle brake also sucks. Actually, firing anywhere on the line with a .300 WM muzzle brake sucks. I didn't know my teeth could vibrate like that..... </div></div>

That's how you make friends! Trust me, I know!
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insectguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't shoot the cows. They don't like that.

</div></div>

Yes, funny when you have your dope and Frank says "send it" and then screams, "wait for the cow!"
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Additional thoughts:
Clothing - I went with the 5.11 Tactical pants. Some worre jeans, some wore digital camo (but we couldn't see them very well). Wear boots-- it's easiest to shake cow chips off of. Wear a hat. If you wear t-shirts, any emblem will act as a magnifier onto your back in 100F heat. You can wear short sleeves, but I was very happy I had my mat.

Mats - I had my Camp Perry mat (from Champion Shooters). Although this took a while between shoots, it saved my old elbows and knees. Some had TAB mats, some had just cloth mats, some had no mats.

Backpacks - some had vests, most everyone had backpacks of some sort. Since I didn't know what to bring, I had my sons canvas milsurp pack. It worked, but I was surprised to find he had sewed the straps so they wouldn't come loose. It worked out well, though, because I could put the rolled mat between the strps and my back-- worked great! BTW, practice putting all of your stuff in your pack, then putting it on and off quickly, and then slinging your rifle as well. That's how you move from range to range.

Spotting scopes - don't need them. Frank will call for you, and they will just get dirty and sandy in Texas.

Water packs - some wore camelbaks, but I didn't even bring mine from the hotel. The instructors always had water available in the cart, just make sure you bring a water bottle. I bought a 24 pack of water at Walmart, and it lasted all week. I used the same bottle throughout the day.

Knee pads - I had them, but didn't use them (because I had a mat). I did wear elbow pads, and they were worth their weight in gold. On guy wore a sweatshirt he sewed elbow pads into (yes, Blaine, I'm talking about you!).

Hearing protection - electronic muffs were prevalent, but not required. I loved mine, especially when I could listen to the radio when I pretended to listen to Frank. (just kidding, Frank....)

Don't wear dark clothes, even if they have a cool "infidel" slogan....

Bought some baby wipes- they were much appreciated!

The hole in the top of my cheekpiece was digging into my face. The cheekpiece pads they had at the bunkhouse worked well for the normal stocks, but of course with my TRG, they didn't fit. I wound up putting electrical tape on top-- it worked!

Bags - I bought one from RO. It was a bit small, but it had some useful straps on it, and once I got used to it worked well. There were all sorts.

An anemometer would have been nice, but there were enough people who had them it was not required.

Laser rangers were nice, but I was determined to learn how to use my scope reticle first, then verify with the laser.

Dry fire! Even when others were shooting, it was essential to dry fire. Practice estimating distances, motion and watching the wind from the dust splatters.

Slings - I can't say anything about slings other than TAB, because I may get threatened with a lawsuit. Let me say I bought a TAB sling when I got there, and was completely satisfied. There was nothing about it I didn't like.

Ammo - don't go on the cheap. One gentleman could only find machine gun surplus, and it was horrible. He very quickly bought a case of BHA from RO. He did great after that! If you bring handloads, be prepared for some failures. One handloader had several primers fall out. It's a different environment down there!

Suppressors - boy, if I had one I would have brought it. It sure was nice hearing Doc shoot with his suppressed .308, especially after some Texas Redneck barraged us with his .300 WM noted above. Be sure the cover is in the same place everytime.

Equipment list (as best I could decipher):
Calibers - 2 .300WM, one 6.5-284, and the rest were .308

Rifles - Sako TRG (with a horrible trigger), Savage, Rem. LTR, several Rem. 700s (some in AICS), Rem. Sendero, Kimber Tactical, Rem. 5R. A couple were GA Precision. All worked well (even the LTR!!!)(just razzing you, Jeff)

Scopes - Nightforce was king, esp. F1. USO, Burris, and S&B were present as well. I had the F1, and used the ffp, and the mil-mil system. Absolutely love the zero-stop. I'm still waiting on better scope caps than Butler Creek. Some used the bikini caps. Bring a lens pen!

BTW, the box mag rifles were at an advantage over the internal mags and single loaders (IMHO). I'm glad I had a box mag.

Bipods - gotta have one. I had a Sako, and actually really loved it (once I figured out how to use it).

muzzle brakes - already addressed. I have one.

I didn't have a scope cover or rifle blanket. I felt inadequate.... but survived.

That's it!
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Thanks for the AAR Texasredneck. It sounds like you guys had a great class! You learned alot and had a good time doing it.

One of these days I will have to take a class at RO.
I think the Pimp cup would look good on my dining room table. The wife might not agree...

endersgame
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Alot of great learning took place i am sure!!

I would have loved to have had the time to come down and play!!

Good write up!!
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

roar-- I took my notes prior to what happened to the Leupold. My sincerest apologies. (I'm also kinda miffed at how much I paid for my F1, how much you paid for your falcon, and the little bit of difference between them....)
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Doug, I still want your sako!!! Also when I go back to R.O. I'm setting up to Pete.
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Well the May PR 1-2 class was my second time down to RO. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so repetition does me good. It also helps to have Jacob and Frank hitting you over the head with the stupid stick to keep you from repeating old bad habits, and the financial deterent of having to buy large quantities of Dos XX and Red Bull helps too!! Another great class with another great group of guys! A little more heat than the Feb class, but the training and instruction was top notch as before. I came away from the May class with many things but one major aspect was to train out of your comfort zone! As Charles said, prone is the easy part. Stand up, sit down, kneel, shoot weak side, shoot under the clock, do push-ups and then shoot! Do anything to increase the intensity of your training and your shooting will improve! The more you train under stressful conditions the better you will be. Train the fundimentals until they are instinctive, but push yourself out of your comfort zone to get to that next level. In addition to Jacob and Frank, and Lisa of coarse, it was good to see Pete and Stan again. Thanks for showing us how to shoot the mover Pete!! Stan, next time down that can of Amp is going to cost you a few rounds through your AW!! Frank, I'm still having nightmares about that alien probe thing!!

Thanks to all for another great experience down in South Texas! Can't wait to get back again!

Jim
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: roar 327</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim what model is your s&b and thanks for your help down there.
</div></div>

S&B PMII 3-12 LP cm adjust with the mil-dot, the one with the windowed indicator at the top. They also offer a model (Military) with the pop up button intead of the window to indicate whether you are on the first or second turn of the elevation knob

I know, because I had scope envy......
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Yup, 3-12 PMII GENII mil-dot. Combined with my GAP, if something is wrong on the target it is the nut behind the bolt, not the equipment. There is one of the MTC models in the for sale section that would look good on that LTR of yours. And I'll give you $70 for that Leupold and NOT tell your wife it was the scope base!!

Jim
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

BTW, one thing I learned-- nothing increases a man's aim and concentration as wearing sandals to a urinal......
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

man,every where I looked I had scope envy, rifle envy and suppessor envy. Doug, good call!
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Great shots Hugh, thanks for sharing! The last one shows that with good instruction, even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in a while! Between those pictures and Capt-kick-ass's post/pictures I'm ready to load up the car and head South again!! Shooting up here in Michigan just isn't the same. Come on Jacob and Frank, get the fall schedule out so we can start planning!!!

Jim
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Jim,

that is absolutely the shit, two shots, first of the day and a second shot follow up in the same hole...
2q0otwx.jpg


Definitely the Zen moment in shooting where you know you put everything together correctly. Goes against conventional thinking where in the past something like this would never had been possible, or even something to strive for, yet here we are.

 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Well Frank it was a great week, thanks for everything. Looks like this last weekend had it's share of comedic moments! How come you didn't do the hat dance for us? I see from CKA's post the waterborning continues!! Did the Chinese aliens teach you that technique or some of your buddies from gitmo? Get working on the fall schedule!! I have to plan ahead!!

Jim
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Nice write ups guys. Thanks for all the info.

I checked out the website. Looks great. Thinking of scheduling a time slot.

Prices don't seem outrageous. Am I right on 1400 per person for the PR 1&2?
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Thanks Lisa! I'll keep an eye on the site for updates. Have a good summer!
 
Re: Rifle's Only PR1&2 May 11-16

Mjoinirasarm,
Yes, that is correct for the PR1&2 course.
Thanks, skibum! We are currently in VT for some training and we are absolutely LOVING the WEATHER!!!!
Lisa
 
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