Anyone have any experience with modifying the bolt handle on rimfires? I have a CZ 452 and just mounted the scope tonight and the stock bolt handle/knob are crowding the scope. I'd like to have a little more length of something like the badger but the extra bulk may cancel out the extra length as far as scope clearance goes. Then again anything is going to be better as it offers more purchase. In my searches it sounds like Hooper is about the only one performing this work.
- Thread starter jimdvt
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Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have any experience with modifying the bolt handle on rimfires? I have a CZ 452 and just mounted the scope tonight and the stock bolt handle/knob are crowding the scope. I'd like to have a little more length of something like the badger but the extra bulk may cancel out the extra length as far as scope clearance goes.</div></div>
The Badger Bolt Knob doesn't lengthen the bolt handle - IT ACTUALLY SHORTENS IT, JUST LIKE NEARLY EVERY "TACTICAL BOLT KNOB OUT THERE. The only bolt knob that I know of that can actually add a bit of length to the bolt handle (and thus increase clearance between the bolt knob and the stock) is the Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then again anything is going to be better as it offers more purchase. In my searches it sounds like Hooper is about the only one performing this work. </div></div>
Try PM'ing <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Monteboy84</span></span> either here on the Hide' or over at Sniper Central to see if he'll install a Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on your CZ452. I know that installing the TOBKC is a PITA on a Ruger 77/22, which is the basis for the Tac Ops Green Hornet. Below are some photos of a TOBKC on a Green Hornet.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on Tac Ops Green Hornet. Metalwork finished in [Birdsong] Naval Special Warfare" Green-T:</span></span>
Matt does great work, installing the TOBKC THE RIGHT WAY, by TIG-welding it on and then grinding and blending the welds between the bolt handle and the TIG-welded insert perfectly smooth before finishing.
Functionally-speaking, a slightly longer bolt handle combined with a moderately-sized bolt knob allows the bolt to be operated more smoothly because of the additional clearance between the shooter's fingers' and the ocular bell. A longer bolt handle also creates slightly more clearance between the shooter's index finger and the bolt knob while shooting. The Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion is also extremely strong because a hardened threaded stud is TIG welded to the bolt handle itself.
The Tac Ops Bolt Conversion actually adds more clearance by lengthening the bolt handle slightly through the installation of the hardened, threaded steel "bung". This is preferred over shortening the bolt handle (as with most other bolt knobs) because shortening the bolt handle reduces the operating clearance between the bolt knob/fingers and the scope's ocular bell. Randy from R & D Precision in California (HateCA) said <span style="font-style: italic">Sounds like you might need a longer bolt handle"</span> to <span style="font-style: italic">banks74</span>.
If, for some strange reason - someone wants a short bolt handle like with other bolt handle installs, the bolt handle just needs to be cut a bit shorter before the "bung" is TIG welded on. However, shortening the bolt handle somewhat defeats the purpose of changing the bolt knob because this decreases the <span style="font-style: italic">working clearance</span> between the scope's ocular bell and the shooter's fingers.
Shown below are some photos' of a Tac Ops Bolt Knob installed on a RH SA M700 bolt (from my personal X-Ray 51) and a competitor's bolt knob installed on a LH SA M700 bolt (from a friend's rifle built by a competitor). Keep in-mind that the competitor's bolt handle isn't even as short as most others, which are sometimes so short that the shooter can barely grasp the knob without fingers hitting the ocular bell.
And again, if for some strange reason someone actually wanted a shorter bolt handle this is easily accomplished by cutting the shank shorter before welding the threaded insert to the bolt handle. That said, compare the <span style="font-weight: bold">length of the handle and the diameter of the threaded shank</span> of the Tac Ops bolt to the length of the handle and the diameter of the threaded shank of the competitor's bolt:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Tac Ops bolt handle:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Competitor's bolt handle:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Competitor's Bolt (on left) and Tac Ops Bolt (on right):</span>
Now on the rifles. Getting the angle the same for both guns was tricky, so it may be difficult to see the actual clearance difference in in the photos. However, in person the clearance delta is substantial.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Look at the clearance between the bolt knob's "top" and the stock on this Tac Ops Bolt:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Compared to the clearance between the bolt knob's "top" and the stock on the competitor's bolt:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Also, look at the distance between the bolt knob's "bottom corner" and the grip on the Tac Ops rifle:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Compared to the distance between the bolt knob's "bottom corner" and the grip on the competitor's rifle:</span>
Check-out my post below this one for photos of TOBKCs' being performed by <span style="font-style: italic">monteboy84</span>.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have any experience with modifying the bolt handle on rimfires? I have a CZ 452 and just mounted the scope tonight and the stock bolt handle/knob are crowding the scope. I'd like to have a little more length of something like the badger but the extra bulk may cancel out the extra length as far as scope clearance goes.</div></div>
The Badger Bolt Knob doesn't lengthen the bolt handle - IT ACTUALLY SHORTENS IT, JUST LIKE NEARLY EVERY "TACTICAL BOLT KNOB OUT THERE. The only bolt knob that I know of that can actually add a bit of length to the bolt handle (and thus increase clearance between the bolt knob and the stock) is the Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then again anything is going to be better as it offers more purchase. In my searches it sounds like Hooper is about the only one performing this work. </div></div>
Try PM'ing <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Monteboy84</span></span> either here on the Hide' or over at Sniper Central to see if he'll install a Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on your CZ452. I know that installing the TOBKC is a PITA on a Ruger 77/22, which is the basis for the Tac Ops Green Hornet. Below are some photos of a TOBKC on a Green Hornet.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on Tac Ops Green Hornet. Metalwork finished in [Birdsong] Naval Special Warfare" Green-T:</span></span>
Matt does great work, installing the TOBKC THE RIGHT WAY, by TIG-welding it on and then grinding and blending the welds between the bolt handle and the TIG-welded insert perfectly smooth before finishing.
Functionally-speaking, a slightly longer bolt handle combined with a moderately-sized bolt knob allows the bolt to be operated more smoothly because of the additional clearance between the shooter's fingers' and the ocular bell. A longer bolt handle also creates slightly more clearance between the shooter's index finger and the bolt knob while shooting. The Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion is also extremely strong because a hardened threaded stud is TIG welded to the bolt handle itself.
The Tac Ops Bolt Conversion actually adds more clearance by lengthening the bolt handle slightly through the installation of the hardened, threaded steel "bung". This is preferred over shortening the bolt handle (as with most other bolt knobs) because shortening the bolt handle reduces the operating clearance between the bolt knob/fingers and the scope's ocular bell. Randy from R & D Precision in California (HateCA) said <span style="font-style: italic">Sounds like you might need a longer bolt handle"</span> to <span style="font-style: italic">banks74</span>.
If, for some strange reason - someone wants a short bolt handle like with other bolt handle installs, the bolt handle just needs to be cut a bit shorter before the "bung" is TIG welded on. However, shortening the bolt handle somewhat defeats the purpose of changing the bolt knob because this decreases the <span style="font-style: italic">working clearance</span> between the scope's ocular bell and the shooter's fingers.
Shown below are some photos' of a Tac Ops Bolt Knob installed on a RH SA M700 bolt (from my personal X-Ray 51) and a competitor's bolt knob installed on a LH SA M700 bolt (from a friend's rifle built by a competitor). Keep in-mind that the competitor's bolt handle isn't even as short as most others, which are sometimes so short that the shooter can barely grasp the knob without fingers hitting the ocular bell.
And again, if for some strange reason someone actually wanted a shorter bolt handle this is easily accomplished by cutting the shank shorter before welding the threaded insert to the bolt handle. That said, compare the <span style="font-weight: bold">length of the handle and the diameter of the threaded shank</span> of the Tac Ops bolt to the length of the handle and the diameter of the threaded shank of the competitor's bolt:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Tac Ops bolt handle:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Competitor's bolt handle:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Competitor's Bolt (on left) and Tac Ops Bolt (on right):</span>
Now on the rifles. Getting the angle the same for both guns was tricky, so it may be difficult to see the actual clearance difference in in the photos. However, in person the clearance delta is substantial.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Look at the clearance between the bolt knob's "top" and the stock on this Tac Ops Bolt:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Compared to the clearance between the bolt knob's "top" and the stock on the competitor's bolt:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Also, look at the distance between the bolt knob's "bottom corner" and the grip on the Tac Ops rifle:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Compared to the distance between the bolt knob's "bottom corner" and the grip on the competitor's rifle:</span>
Check-out my post below this one for photos of TOBKCs' being performed by <span style="font-style: italic">monteboy84</span>.
Keith
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
Below are a bunch of photos I borrowed from <span style="font-style: italic">monteboy84</span>'s <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Some bolt knob install pictures"</span></span> thread. Bolts are shown in various stages of the Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion. I highly recommend that the TOBKC be installed by <span style="font-style: italic">monteboy84</span>, because is NOT a DYI install.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Process continued below...</span></span>
Below are a bunch of photos I borrowed from <span style="font-style: italic">monteboy84</span>'s <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Some bolt knob install pictures"</span></span> thread. Bolts are shown in various stages of the Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion. I highly recommend that the TOBKC be installed by <span style="font-style: italic">monteboy84</span>, because is NOT a DYI install.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Process continued below...</span></span>
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">...Continued</span></span>
Below are post-shaping and sanding photos. <span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> Matt, aka <span style="font-style: italic">"monteboy84</span> does not work for Tac Ops, but he has done more than a hundred TOBKCs' and has it down to a science.
Keith
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">...Continued</span></span>
Below are post-shaping and sanding photos. <span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> Matt, aka <span style="font-style: italic">"monteboy84</span> does not work for Tac Ops, but he has done more than a hundred TOBKCs' and has it down to a science.
Keith
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
I install the knobs. I just machine them to the correct angle and thread for the knob. No excessive heat is involved.
I have done them on the Savage MkII, Ruger 77/22, Marlin, CZ452, and most centerfires.
I install the knobs. I just machine them to the correct angle and thread for the knob. No excessive heat is involved.
I have done them on the Savage MkII, Ruger 77/22, Marlin, CZ452, and most centerfires.
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
Thanks for the insight guys. I'll have to take some measurements and pictures of my current setup. The Tac Ops knob looks like it may not work as the handle gets fairly thin before the knob IIRC. There may not be enough meat to work with. The badger still adds some length just by the fact that the knob is longer. Hooper, you don't happen to have any pictures from behind with the bolt up and a scope mounted do you? I know all scopes and mounting heights are different but it would help to visualize what may work.
Thanks for the insight guys. I'll have to take some measurements and pictures of my current setup. The Tac Ops knob looks like it may not work as the handle gets fairly thin before the knob IIRC. There may not be enough meat to work with. The badger still adds some length just by the fact that the knob is longer. Hooper, you don't happen to have any pictures from behind with the bolt up and a scope mounted do you? I know all scopes and mounting heights are different but it would help to visualize what may work.
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
The thinnest part of the bolt handle is just before the knob and measures about 1/4" so I think a Tac Ops knob may not work as the small pin version would only leave about .050" all around. As you can see below there's about 1/16" or less clearance between the knob and zoom right of the scope.
Good thing the low rings didn't work because I would have been even more presses for space.
The thinnest part of the bolt handle is just before the knob and measures about 1/4" so I think a Tac Ops knob may not work as the small pin version would only leave about .050" all around. As you can see below there's about 1/16" or less clearance between the knob and zoom right of the scope.
Good thing the low rings didn't work because I would have been even more presses for space.
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
+1 for Hooper's bolt installs. He also has bottom metal and can shorten and thread your barrel. Great prices and good guy to deal with.
The one in wooden stock is been fitted into a Bell&Carlson Rem 700 SA stock (just like the other rifle in the picture) as we speak. Will post pix when done.
+1 for Hooper's bolt installs. He also has bottom metal and can shorten and thread your barrel. Great prices and good guy to deal with.
The one in wooden stock is been fitted into a Bell&Carlson Rem 700 SA stock (just like the other rifle in the picture) as we speak. Will post pix when done.
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thinnest part of the bolt handle is just before the knob and measures about 1/4" so I think a Tac Ops knob may not work as the small pin version would only leave about .050" all around. As you can see below there's about 1/16" or less clearance between the knob and zoom right of the scope.
Good thing the low rings didn't work because I would have been even more presses for space.
</div></div>
Sir, when I perform the install on the CZ, I take the factory angle out of it and make sure it has a more straight down rear angle. The factory angle has the last part of the handle kicking the knob out to the side of the rifle.
The side view also has the knob following a 16 degree sweep to the rear similar to a Remington 700.
The owner of the rifle that is featured in the pics advised that when he has it scoped up and ready to go, he will post more pics.
I hope this helps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim-VT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thinnest part of the bolt handle is just before the knob and measures about 1/4" so I think a Tac Ops knob may not work as the small pin version would only leave about .050" all around. As you can see below there's about 1/16" or less clearance between the knob and zoom right of the scope.
Good thing the low rings didn't work because I would have been even more presses for space.
Sir, when I perform the install on the CZ, I take the factory angle out of it and make sure it has a more straight down rear angle. The factory angle has the last part of the handle kicking the knob out to the side of the rifle.
The side view also has the knob following a 16 degree sweep to the rear similar to a Remington 700.
The owner of the rifle that is featured in the pics advised that when he has it scoped up and ready to go, he will post more pics.
I hope this helps.
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
Here is a side view.
Here is a side view.
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Below are some photos of a TOBKC on a Green Hornet.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on Tac Ops Green Hornet:</span></span>
</div></div>
Not gonna lie,
Mark Gordon @ SAC does a way nicer job
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Below are some photos of a TOBKC on a Green Hornet.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on Tac Ops Green Hornet:</span></span>
Not gonna lie,
Mark Gordon @ SAC does a way nicer job
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Below are some photos of a TOBKC on a Green Hornet.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on Tac Ops Green Hornet:</span></span>
</div></div>
Not gonna lie,
Mark Gordon @ SAC does a way nicer job
</div></div>
Mark does does a beautiful blend on the bolt handle. However, as evidenced in the photos you posted, Mark's install - like most everyone else's bolt knob installs, shortens the bolt handle. Shortening the bolt handle actually REDUCES clearance, (the end of the bolt knob is moved closer to the stock, the scope ocular, and the shooter's hand). This can be and often is a problem.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Below are some photos of a TOBKC on a Green Hornet.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion on Tac Ops Green Hornet:</span></span>
Not gonna lie,
Mark Gordon @ SAC does a way nicer job
Mark does does a beautiful blend on the bolt handle. However, as evidenced in the photos you posted, Mark's install - like most everyone else's bolt knob installs, shortens the bolt handle. Shortening the bolt handle actually REDUCES clearance, (the end of the bolt knob is moved closer to the stock, the scope ocular, and the shooter's hand). This can be and often is a problem.
Keith
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
using the excellent pictorial above using the threaded stud will allow you to extend the knob out as much as you want,you just need a longer stud, or change the angle of the hole drilled to give you clearance.
then there is a homemade cheap way, you can sculpt it however you like....
LOW BUDGET .22 TRAINER - tactical/o.sized bolt knob
i don't know if this will work for you...
clamp on bolt knob product
using the excellent pictorial above using the threaded stud will allow you to extend the knob out as much as you want,you just need a longer stud, or change the angle of the hole drilled to give you clearance.
then there is a homemade cheap way, you can sculpt it however you like....
LOW BUDGET .22 TRAINER - tactical/o.sized bolt knob
i don't know if this will work for you...
clamp on bolt knob product
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
I saw the clamp on, which just wouldn't work as the existing knob is nearly touching. I really like the sculpted option, but it's the same issue there. I could probably make that work if I grind down the knob to allow room for the beginning taper of the epoxy knob. How did you prep your existing knob for the fast steel?
I saw the clamp on, which just wouldn't work as the existing knob is nearly touching. I really like the sculpted option, but it's the same issue there. I could probably make that work if I grind down the knob to allow room for the beginning taper of the epoxy knob. How did you prep your existing knob for the fast steel?
Re: Rimfire bolt handle mods?
I have a D.D. Ross bolt knob on my 17 and I really like it. It's a little more narrow and longer than the Badger. If you go to the link in my sig you can see a few larger pics of it.
I have a D.D. Ross bolt knob on my 17 and I really like it. It's a little more narrow and longer than the Badger. If you go to the link in my sig you can see a few larger pics of it.
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