Rimfire Positional Shooting Thread V1.0

[rick137]

This thread was inspired by jbells’s 6x5 Thread v3.0. What about a thread for positional shooting with small caliber rimfire ammunition? Traditional stuff, standing, kneeling, sitting, prone with only allowable supports the ground and a sling. The purpose is to exchange tips, tricks and techniques about marksmanship since every aspect of gear is covered in other threads. If sufficient people are interested and can agree on a target then a bit of competition to accompany the cooperation. Competition always a spur to do your best.

The attached is a 22LR 10-shot group shot standing, offhand at 46 +/- 1 yd. Topography prevents full 50yd distance. Not a trophy target but not an embarrassing one either. Typical result with some good shots along with the outliers. Wind dead calm. Those damn outliers. Central black disk is 2.00” and each circle thereafter has a diameter of 1.00” greater. I devised this target to make analysis easy.

 

[steve123]

Did you use a sling then?

Time limit imposed?

 

[308pirate]

Cool

I like the idea of pure marksmanship without props, bipods, tripods, and pillow sacks.

 

[missed]

Subd...

 

[308pirate]

Alright, here we go

First, the rifle: CZ 452 Trainer with an Aimpoint CompC. Ammo is Norma TAC22

So today I decided to try my hand at the Appleseed AQT course of fire. While I have zero interest in doing an Appleseed for several reasons, their course of fire is actually a really good test of basic rifle marksmanship skills.

First I did some sitting and prone rapid fire warmup at 25 yards using the 6 bull NRA/ISSF 50 meter target, but did not take pics. We had a pretty good L-R breeze and used the warmup to figure out the hold off I would need.

Now, let's get down to business at 25 yards. I used an M1 sling as a hasty in stage 1 and as a loop sling in stages 2, 3, and 4. I used a spotting scope (Kowa TSN-601) just like I used to use it in my service rifle competition days.

Stage 1, ten rounds standing in 2 minutes. Score 46/50. Final score is also tallied up on this target.

Stage 2. Standing to sitting, 10 rounds in 55 seconds. Since I only have 5 round mags for this rifle, I had to do a mag change. NBD, I shot NRA highpower for years so a mag change in the middle of the string is automatic. Score: 45/50

Stage 3: 10 rounds standing to prone in 65 seconds, otherwise same as stage 2 (5 and 5 with a reload). Score: 44/50 due to some NPA issues.

Stage 4: 20 rounds prone, 5 per target. Supposed to be done in 5 minutes but I broke it down into two 10 round strings, 2.5 min each due to the magazine situation. Really strong 95/100 here.

I also shot the same COF with my AR carbine and scored only four points lower. Cleaned offhand then had some issue in prone.

After both AQTs, I brought out the 452 again for 20 rounds of sling-supported prone at 100 yards. Here's the result. Most of the off shots were either dealing with holdover or trying to figure out the wind hold. Zero mirage visible today so I had to sort of guess the wind hold based on what I felt on my face. Overcast sky too, making contrast a little more difficult. So considering environmentals, the sight used, and the fact that this is a sporter not a match rifle, I'll call a 90% score pretty damned good.

I am really enjoying using a reflex sight mounted on the front of the receiver instead of a magnifying scope. It brings back the fun of shooting with irons without the downsides of 52 year old eyes.

 

[rick137]

P308:

Awesome. Looks like your CZ452 has a long barrel.

Amazon sells a target labelled "100 Yard Small Bore Rifle Competition NRA TQ-4". Is that the target you used? If so I will have a go at it shooting standing offhand since that is the only position I know.

 

[308pirate]

Awesome. Looks like your CZ452 has a long barrel.

24"

The 100 yard target I used is the A-25. Not sure what a TQ-4 is.

If all you know is offhand, I recommend attending an Appleseed. You will learn how to shoot from the kneeling, sitting, and prone positions as well as the correct use of a sling to stabilize the rifle in each of them.

 

[jbell]

Very cool thread, Ill have to give it a go on my next range trip.

Rick, what rifle and sights were you shooting? I think that is very important!

 

[Macca]

I don’t shoot highpower anymore so I ditched my hardback coat, but they are the shizzle for standing unsupported.

 

[rick137]

First Gents thank you very much for your comments and suggestions. Appleseed is just what I need. Will be attending a course in 2019.

Targets TQ-4 seem identical to A-25 but can purchase A-25 so will do so.

One of the attached graphs depicts running four and ten target MOA averages. Most of the targets were 10 shots and a few 5 or 20. For the first 22 targets used a Sako Quad with a 2MOA Red Dot. For all the other targets an Anschutz with a scope. Ammunition was predominately Geco Bolt and Eley Tenex. Could not discern any difference in data. Partially confirms the statement that when shooting standing offhand the rifle and ammunition do not really matter.

The other graph is a percentage histogram for 979 shots. Skewed Gaussian for what that is worth.

Major conclusion is reducing your group MOA is a challenge requiring a lot of dry and live fire.

 

[308pirate]

When it comes to positional shooting I would place more effort into improving accuracy rather than into improving precision (group size)

A 2 MOA group in the ten ring beats a 1 MOA group in the 8 ring.

 

[rick137]

In the old ISO specification, accuracy and precision were separate attributes. Applied to shooting, the group could be precise but not accurate or accurate but not precise. No so with the new specification. With respect to shooting, accuracy now implies both precision and centeredness, i.e. the center of the group must be close to the desired POA.

Certainly agree with your observation. We all know the bad boys - poor breath control, poor trigger control, poor sighting and poor hold through. As far as I can tell, as a novice, is the bad boys degrade both precision and centering. And, after mounting the rifle you have let your muscle memory, a.k.a. subconscious, take over from your conscious. At least for me. If I try to concentrate on one aspect it will be an inaccurate shot. It is like the subconscious plays role of the automatic sequencer in a rocket launch. If you have a technique, I am all ears and then some.

To answer another question, I have no set time for shooting a group. I start with rifle at my waist, mount it, swing and break the shot at appropriate aim point. If all goes well, I estimate between 5 and 10 seconds. Really good feeling when all goes well and you know shot is within 6 MOA of center of target. If all does not go well, then am trying to train my subconscious to abort the shot. In either case lower rifle to waist and go through the checklist before mounting again. Nice to be retired and set both the rules and goals.

When can keep shots within 6 MOA, will speed-up the process. Will also shoot with a semi-auto. Before then, going for speed I think could very easily lead to bad habits.

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

First Gents thank you very much for your comments and suggestions. Appleseed is just what I need. Will be attending a course in 2019.

Targets TQ-4 seem identical to A-25 but can purchase A-25 so will do so.

One of the attached graphs depicts running four and ten target MOA averages. Most of the targets were 10 shots and a few 5 or 20. For the first 22 targets used a Sako Quad with a 2MOA Red Dot. For all the other targets an Anschutz with a scope. Ammunition was predominately Geco Bolt and Eley Tenex. Could not discern any difference in data. Partially confirms the statement that when shooting standing offhand the rifle and ammunition do not really matter.

The other graph is a percentage histogram for 979 shots. Skewed Gaussian for what that is worth.

Major conclusion is reducing your group MOA is a challenge requiring a lot of dry and live fire.

Rick,
I agree with your choice to attend an Appleseed event. I attended one some years back and was impressed how well they cover the basic mechanics of positional shooting.

 

[308pirate]

I couldn't find the ISSF 50 meter free pistol target reduced to 50 yards (the same target used for the CMP Rimfire Sporter 3 position matches) for free so I made one. As soon as I have some free time and the wind slows down a bit I'll print six of them and go run the Rimfire Sporter course of fire to post here.

ETA: for those that aren't familiar, the rapid fire times below are for manually operated rifles. Self loaders get 25 seconds. The rapid fire stages do not have a reload. You shoot 5 from standing to prone or sitting on the clock, reload off the clock, and get in the standing position to start the second round of 5.

Target is attached as a pdf. I had to scale it down about 5% to make it fit in an 11x17 sheet of paper, so remember to use that size of paper (and actual size/100% scaling) when printing.

 

[308pirate]

Is there anyone here who competes in smallbore 3 Position or smallbore prone? Shows us your targets.

 

[skinnj1]

Used to shoot 10m Air rifle, indoor and outdoor 3-p rimfire and a little 300 Meter 3p centerfire- all pre-cell phone /cell phone camera days. Positive my shooting pants won't fit anymore....

Shot up paper targets are long gone but I may have a training log with a few electronic target printouts.....

 

[308pirate]

Used to shoot 10m Air rifle, indoor and outdoor 3-p rimfire and a little 300 Meter 3p centerfire- all pre-cell phone /cell phone camera days. Positive my shooting pants won't fit anymore....

Shot up paper targets are long gone but I may have a training log with a few electronic target printouts.....

Well get out there and shoot again partner!

 

[308pirate]

OK, I guess I'll keep this thread alive, for a little while longer anyway.

The weather finally became bearable this weekend so I shot the CMP rimfire sporter match format with the targets I made and posted above. Based on how I shot today, I'm going to edit the targets to remove enough rings to fit it in a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet.

Anyway, shot it in this sequence:

The rifle, same CZ 452 with an Aimpoint CompC as above.

Here are the results

Stage 1: 100-4X

Stage 2, 98-5X

Stage 3, 97-3X

Stage 4, 97-3X

Stage 5, 96-4X

Stage 6, 96-2X

Overall, 584-21X. 97.3% of possible points and 35.0% of possible Xs. Not bad for a 4 MOA red dot and good enough for a top ten finish at this year's Nationals.

I bet I can pick up 5 - 8 more points with a 2 MOA dot, as the 4 MOA covers a little more than the white 10 ring.

 

[Islander]

Those are some great targets. I use to shoot NRA Highpower way back in the day. I might have to try that CMP Rimfire course of fire. Looks like a blast. Maybe it will all come back to me........

 

[rick137]

OK, I guess I'll keep this thread alive, for a little while longer anyway.

The weather finally became bearable this weekend so I shot the CMP rimfire sporter match format with the targets I made and posted above. Based on how I shot today, I'm going to edit the targets to remove enough rings to fit it in a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet.

Anyway, shot it in this sequence:
View attachment 6972164

The rifle, same CZ 452 with an Aimpoint CompC as above.

Here are the results

Stage 1: 100-4X
View attachment 6972165

Stage 2, 98-5X
View attachment 6972170

Stage 3, 97-3X
View attachment 6972171

Stage 4, 97-3X
View attachment 6972172

Stage 5, 96-3X (the note on the target is in error)
View attachment 6972175

Stage 6, 96-2X
View attachment 6972179

Overall, 584-20X. 97.3% of possible points and 33.3% of possible Xs. Not bad for a 4 MOA red dot and good enough for a top ten finish at this year's Nationals.

I bet I can pick up 5 - 8 more points with a 2 MOA dot, as the 4 MOA covers a little more than the white 10 ring.

Nice shooting!

 

[308pirate]

Those are some great targets. I use to shoot NRA Highpower way back in the day. I might have to try that CMP Rimfire course of fire. Looks like a blast. Maybe it will all come back to me........

I shot highpower too some years back

This sling stuff is like riding a bike.

 

[Islander]

I'm not as flexible as I use to be either. Getting into the slung bent forward seated position might be an issue.

 

[lash]

I'm not as flexible as I use to be either. Getting into the slung bent forward seated position might be an issue.

Modify the position to accommodate the flexibility of where you are now.

 

[308pirate]

I'm not as flexible as I use to be either. Getting into the slung bent forward seated position might be an issue.

At 52 I still can get into a really low crossed ankle sitting position. If I can prevent the pulse from taking over, I can rip a nasty rapid fire string from it. Semi auto or bolt gun, don't matter. I can run either one just as fast.

In fact that's the position I used for the sitting strings for the rimfire targets from yesterday. I did have a little pulse going which you can see in the vertical stringing.

Crossed leg sitting might be easier for you.

 

[Islander]

At 52 I still can get into a really low crossed ankle sitting position. If I can prevent the pulse from taking over, I can rip a nasty rapid fire string from it. Semi auto or bolt gun, don't matter. I can run either one just as fast.

In fact that's the position I used for the sitting strings for the rimfire targets from yesterday. I did have a little pulse going which you can see in the vertical stringing.

Crossed leg sitting might be easier for you.

Crossed leg sitting is actually what I used back when I shot Highpower. At 65 I find it's now a struggle and with the sling things get uncomfortable quickly. I believe it's a matter of getting use to the position again and slowly getting the old body limbered up. The old saying "use it or lose it" seems to apply here.

 

[308pirate]

Yeah, we need to stretch often

I never could get on with crossed leg sitting. When I saw a pic of crossed ankle in the AMU service rifle booklet and I tried it, I had an epiphany.

 

[308pirate]

Here's the CMP rimfire sporter target with all the white scoring rings removed so that it fits at full scale in a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. This is really all that is needed for a training tool

 

[lash]

Here's the CMP rimfire sporter target with all the white scoring rings removed so that it fits at full scale in a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. This is really all that is needed for a training tool

Thanks! I can always use new and useful targets.

 

[rick137]

Here's the CMP rimfire sporter target with all the white scoring rings removed so that it fits at full scale in a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. This is really all that is needed for a training tool

Many thanks for providing a standard.

To be certain printer scaled correctly measured outer diameter of 7 ring to be 7.400" and outer diameter of 10 ring to be 1.800".

Measured some of my old targets and conclude that standing, offhand with this target at 46 yd I am a 90 shooter with very, very few Xs. Given I am 77 perhaps a 4 yd handicap is justified. Ha! Ha!

 

[308pirate]

Rick, measurements are pretty close. The target is the ISSF 50 meter pistol target reduced to 50 yards and the official measurements are in page 204 here: https://www.usashooting.org/library/Rulebooks/2014/USAS_GTR_2014.pdf.

 

[rick137]

Many thanks. That document is an eye-opener. Worthy of a lawyer. The specifications of the rings are to 0.01 mm. Can the center of a bullet hole be measured to that accuracy? Shades of hanging chads.

 

[308pirate]

Many thanks. That document is an eye-opener. Worthy of a lawyer

As it should be. It leaves little to no room for interpretation. And it removes the idiotic "intent" aspect that lives on almost all American shooting sports

The specifications of the rings are to 0.01 mm.

No, they are not. The 10, 9, and 8 ring diameters are held to a total tolerance of 0.2 mm. The rest of them are held to 0.6 mm.

Can the center of a bullet hole be measured to that accuracy? Shades of hanging chads.

The rules have very detailed paper target scoring procedures which are pretty much obsolete as virtually any significant ISSF rifle or pistol match is shot on electronic targets (which have their own detailed calibration and certification procedures).

In any case, the center of the bullet hole is irrelevant. What matters is the edge of the bullet hole and whether or not it cuts a scoring ring.

 

[rick137]

As it should be. It leaves little to no room for interpretation. And it removes the idiotic "intent" aspect that lives on almost all American shooting sports



No, they are not. The 10, 9, and 8 ring diameters are held to a total tolerance of 0.2 mm. The rest of them are held to 0.6 mm.



The rules have very detailed paper target scoring procedures which are pretty much obsolete as virtually any significant ISSF rifle or pistol match is shot on electronic targets (which have their own detailed calibration and certification procedures).

In any case, the center of the bullet hole is irrelevant. What matters is the edge of the bullet hole and whether or not it cuts a scoring ring.

P308:

You have made my day. Christmas in November. In determining the accuracy on my MOA targets I have used the center of the hole, admittedly sometimes difficult to determine. That procedure came from mimicking the CTC of a group from the distance between farthest outer edges minus the diameter of the bullet.

By cutting I presume you mean the bullet hole removes a portion of the scoring ring. I noticed that NRA targets for sale are printed on tag board. Is that because a bullet leaves a more well defined hole in tag board versus paper?

 

[Rthur]

OK, I guess I'll keep this thread alive, for a little while longer anyway.

The weather finally became bearable this weekend so I shot the CMP rimfire sporter match format with the targets I made and posted above. Based on how I shot today, I'm going to edit the targets to remove enough rings to fit it in a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet.

Anyway, shot it in this sequence:
View attachment 6972164

The rifle, same CZ 452 with an Aimpoint CompC as above.

Here are the results

Stage 1: 100-4X
View attachment 6972165

Stage 2, 98-5X
View attachment 6972170

Stage 3, 97-3X
View attachment 6972171

Stage 4, 97-3X
View attachment 6972172

Stage 5, 96-3X (the note on the target is in error)
View attachment 6972175

Stage 6, 96-2X
View attachment 6972179

Overall, 584-20X. 97.3% of possible points and 33.3% of possible Xs. Not bad for a 4 MOA red dot and good enough for a top ten finish at this year's Nationals.

I bet I can pick up 5 - 8 more points with a 2 MOA dot, as the 4 MOA covers a little more than the white 10 ring.

Great shooting 308!

R

 

[308pirate]

P308:

You have made my day. Christmas in November. In determining the accuracy on my MOA targets I have used the center of the hole, admittedly sometimes difficult to determine. That procedure came from mimicking the CTC of a group from the distance between farthest outer edges minus the diameter of the bullet.

By cutting I presume you mean the bullet hole removes a portion of the scoring ring. I noticed that NRA targets for sale are printed on tag board. Is that because a bullet leaves a more well defined hole in tag board versus paper?

You got it. The standard in bullseye target scoring is defined by the highest scoring ring that is cut by the edge of the bullet hole. Tag board is preferred for the reason you mentioned. That's also why bullseye match pistols are tuned to work with wadcutter bullets

 

[rick137]

You got it. The standard in bullseye target scoring is defined by the highest scoring ring that is cut by the edge of the bullet hole. Tag board is preferred for the reason you mentioned. That's also why bullseye match pistols are tuned to work with wadcutter bullets

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I made up this target a little while ago to practice positional shooting for rimfire matches and finally got a chance to shoot it today. It's based, in part, off of a stage I had shot previously where we shot two rounds standing, two shots kneeling, two shots sitting, and two shots prone. This target is scaled for 50 yards to represent the two plates that we shot at the match with a 1.5" circle for the prone portion to emphasize accuracy.

All positions were shot with an Armageddon Gear sling. Sitting and kneeling felt good but standing offhand and prone with a sling could honestly use some work.

 

[lash]

I made up this target a little while ago to practice positional shooting for rimfire matches and finally got a chance to shoot it today. It's based, in part, off of a stage I had shot previously where we shot two rounds standing, two shots kneeling, two shots sitting, and two shots prone. This target is scaled for 50 yards to represent the two plates that we shot at the match with a 1.5" circle for the prone portion to emphasize accuracy.

All positions were shot with an Armageddon Gear sling. Sitting and kneeling felt good but standing offhand and prone with a sling could honestly use some work.

View attachment 6974959

Do you have a pdf if that target you can share?

Or at least the dimensions of the respective bulls?

 

[Trigger Monkey]

The circles are 5", 3", and 1.5". It's actually part of a 50 round, 50 yard target set that I made up so after I make some adjustments based on yesterday's range trip I'll post up the whole target set, probably Monday.

 

[rick137]

I made up this target a little while ago to practice positional shooting for rimfire matches and finally got a chance to shoot it today. It's based, in part, off of a stage I had shot previously where we shot two rounds standing, two shots kneeling, two shots sitting, and two shots prone. This target is scaled for 50 yards to represent the two plates that we shot at the match with a 1.5" circle for the prone portion to emphasize accuracy.

All positions were shot with an Armageddon Gear sling. Sitting and kneeling felt good but standing offhand and prone with a sling could honestly use some work.

View attachment 6974959

You rang steel with all 8 shots. Good shooting.

I constructed a target to MOA scale the NRA 100 yd small bore rifle target to 50 yd. The dimensions are accurate to at least 0.02". A demanding target for positional shooting. The scaled dimensions of the ring diameters should be:

X Ring 0.5" = 0.96 MOA
10 Ring 1.0" = 1.91 MOA
9 Ring 2.0" = 3.82 MOA
8 Ring 3.0" = 5.73 MOA
7 Ring 4.0" = 7.64 MOA
6 Ring 5.0" = 9.55 MOA
5 Ring 6.0" = 11.46 MOA

Now we have a number of excellent targets. Can choose your poison. Much easier to construct targets than punch holes in them.

 

[308pirate]

I constructed a target to MOA scale the NRA 100 yd small bore rifle target to 50 yd.

You do realize that the NRA already has a 50 yard smallbore rifle target right? No need to make your own. http://silvercitygunclub.com/PDF/a23.pdf

In any case, NRA targets don't scale 1 for 1 from the correct distance to some other distance to compensate for the effects (increased or reduced) of wind. So all your 50 yard target dimensions are wrong according to the NRA rulebook.

I've made mention of rulebooks more than once as the source of answers to your technical questions but it seems you just can't be bothered to look up those answers and instead you make up your own.

 

[rick137]

In fact I examined the NRA Smallbore Rifle Rules document and plan to study it further. I am certain the NRA has many good reasons for their target geometries. My rational is that the targets are my range are at 46, 98 and 199 yards. I want targets with the same MOA at the various distances in order to gauge my marksmanship at various distances with exactly scaled targets. If and when I compete in NRA events will certainly buy and use NRA targets.

 

[lash]

The circles are 5", 3", and 1.5". It's actually part of a 50 round, 50 yard target set that I made up so after I make some adjustments based on yesterday's range trip I'll post up the whole target set, probably Monday.

Thanks

 

[308pirate]

I want targets with the same MOA at the various distances in order to gauge my marksmanship at various distances with exactly scaled targets.

Positional shooting proficiency and success is not measured by group size in MOA or any other unit. It is measured by score on target.

Your available distances are close enough to regulation that you could save yourself the time and trouble and use already existing, standard targets.

 

[skinnj1]

@rick137

If you are looking to practice "prs" style positional shooting skills get a set of NRL 22 steel targets and keep a diary and do the same drills over time. If you want a paper target to analyze your position / trigger pulling habits/ etc. anything you want to use that is "OK" but I perfer to use the same targets I would use in a formal competition as that is a better yardstick when comparing yourself to others. As 308Pirate alluded to there is specific reasons the rings are sized the way they are, you can't simply multyiply or divide a NRA target by the range differential when reducing/enlarging a target and be able to say your score is an eqivalent to a score shot on the other target (back to that yardstick). Personally, I feel the NRA 50 Meter smallbore target is less forgiving than the 50 yd or 100 yd NRA target and would be the one that I would be using to track my progress if I was using a Vudoo/ match ammo like you have indicated as your plan....

 

[rick137]

When I say positional shooting I mean positional shooting as defined in the NRA publication, "Smallbore Rifle Rules". PRS shooting is way beyond my ability.

My goal is keeping all shots within a 6 MOA disk centered on the aimpoint shooting standing offhand.

At the moment only doing standing, offhand shooting. After attending J-Seed next summer will do kneeling, sitting and prone.

My range has steel targets at 198 yards. No other steel targets are permitted, unfortunately.

The ideal target is a series of dots with a single shot at each dot. Were my standing, offhand marksmanship that precise. I created a target with ring diameters spaced 0.5" apart to make a bit of analysis easy at home. Using a light box and overlaying any target with scoring rings I can calculate a score in 30 seconds. Will do so for NRA 50 yard A-23 target.

 

[skinnj1]

@rick137

@308pirate and I have been trying to steer you in the right direction, this is snipershide.com not targettalk.com, so I assumed your positional interest was more tactical in nature than NRA style square range shooting. If you are talking traditional 3P (standing/Kneeling/ Prone):
1. buy the right targets, A 23's are easy, skip them and shoot the 50 M reduced to 50 yds, if you ever get to shoot the 50 yd target in a match, it will seem like a piece of cake, going the other direction-people have mental hurdles. Think of it as "training weights" in regards to targets.
2. Forget the vudoo you have been discussing in other threads, it is going to be an espensive option, one that is not turn key ideal option, as it will need another $1750+ beyond the barreled action to be set up for 3-P and then it is a repeater when you need a single shot with a loading block. Look at my posts in this thread for what you should be considering : https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...re-buying-a-“big”-rifle.6910970/#post-7355195
3. What ever you buy, get something that will take match irons easily, you should be mastering them as part of a 3 P journey. Used Anschutz/Walther/Russian target rifles will come with irons most of the time. Setting up a vudoo would be at least another $500 in sights plus bases plus gunsmithing as needed

A 3P gun needs a stock that fits the shooter in each position- the stock needs complete adjustability, the stock needs a target rail, and you should want a two stage trigger that goes well under 1 pound in total pull weight. If you are a full sized, male adult, the rifle should probably weigh more than 12 lbs to balance out right for offhand. Get a good match rifle sling (anschutz or Thune), get a coat champions shooters supply makes a decent inexspensive canvas smallbore coat. Get a good glove, my last one was anschutz but there are several good glove makers, kneeling roll and mat is somewhere you can cheap out on (champions choice or champions shooter supply). Until you can shoot respectable offhand scores , dont wast your money shooting to high a grade of ammo offhand (eley club, german made sk jagd rifle match are two examples of what I am refering to as sufficent for 50 yds, T-22 is good enough for 50 ft on an indoor target for practice, save the Lapua Center x/ Eley Black or better for prone only when you are shooting good).

I say this as someone whose "job" for a period of my life , was to go to the range and shoot 3P smallbore and 10M air rifle.

 

[rick137]

@rick137

@308pirate and I have been trying to steer you in the right direction, this is snipershide.com not targettalk.com, so I assumed your positional interest was more tactical in nature than NRA style square range shooting. If you are talking traditional 3P (standing/Kneeling/ Prone):
1. buy the right targets, A 23's are easy, skip them and shoot the 50 M reduced to 50 yds, if you ever get to shoot the 50 yd target in a match, it will seem like a piece of cake, going the other direction-people have mental hurdles. Think of it as "training weights" in regards to targets.
2. Forget the vudoo you have been discussing in other threads, it is going to be an espensive option, one that is not turn key ideal option, as it will need another $1750+ beyond the barreled action to be set up for 3-P and then it is a repeater when you need a single shot with a loading block. Look at my posts in this thread for what you should be considering : https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/building-a-precision-22-before-buying-a-“big”-rifle.6910970/#post-7355195
3. What ever you buy, get something that will take match irons easily, you should be mastering them as part of a 3 P journey. Used Anschutz/Walther/Russian target rifles will come with irons most of the time. Setting up a vudoo would be at least another $500 in sights plus bases plus gunsmithing as needed

A 3P gun needs a stock that fits the shooter in each position- the stock needs complete adjustability, the stock needs a target rail, and you should want a two stage trigger that goes well under 1 pound in total pull weight. If you are a full sized, male adult, the rifle should probably weigh more than 12 lbs to balance out right for offhand. Get a good match rifle sling (anschutz or Thune), get a coat champions shooters supply makes a decent inexspensive canvas smallbore coat. Get a good glove, my last one was anschutz but there are several good glove makers, kneeling roll and mat is somewhere you can cheap out on (champions choice or champions shooter supply). Until you can shoot respectable offhand scores , dont wast your money shooting to high a grade of ammo offhand (eley club, german made sk jagd rifle match are two examples of what I am refering to as sufficent for 50 yds, T-22 is good enough for 50 ft on an indoor target for practice, save the Lapua Center x/ Eley Black or better for prone only when you are shooting good).

I say this as someone whose "job" for a period of my life , was to go to the range and shoot 3P smallbore and 10M air rifle.

Thanks for all the good info.

 

[308pirate]

My goal is keeping all shots within a 6 MOA disk centered on the aimpoint shooting standing offhand.

Learning is just not happening

 

[308pirate]

BTT

Anyone else doing any rimfire positional shooting, whether it be PRS or NRA style?

How about a postal CMP rimfire sporter match?