Rifle Scopes Rimfire Trainer Scope

[hollowpoint]

I am setting up a .17hmr trainer. I thought I knew what I wanted for glass but more research lead me to believe I was wrong. So here's the situation.
17hmr trainer that will be primarily used on a range out to 300 yards as a paper puncher. Budget is sub $450, lower is better, that's the top end. I don't have the best eyes. I'm one of those guys who has a prescription for glasses but can get by without them and find them too annoying to ever wear them, so I'm thinking more magnification is better. I have a list of must haves for the scope and some would be nice to haves.
Must have: mil-dot reticle, target knobs.
Would be nice to have: variable power, parallax adjustment, ffp reticle.
I would prefer to have better glass v better features. Any recommendations?

I would love to buy a vortex viper pst or a nightforce, but the budget is the budget, so I would appreciate it if those comments were left out.

 

[timelinex]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

When it comes to FFP and your budget, thats a huge problem. I think the only 'decent' scope that has FFP in that price range is the falcon. Many people don't like them though, because things were obviously compromised to get to that price(think glass clarity and feel of the mechanics)

If your willing to compromise on the FFP then the regular vortex viper 6.5-20x50 is a great scope for the money. I had it on my 308 and it worked great up until it was replaced with a PST. The only downfall is if your trying to work closer than 50 yards, its parallax only goes down to 50, so you will have to dial down the magnification to use it closer. Also, it technically doesn't have exposed turrets, if thats what you meant by tactical knobs, but thats only because the tactical knobs are covers by screw on caps. If you want knobs that are always exposed, you can just never screw on the caps and it will be functionally the exact same as any other tactical scope with no caps.

Most my experience is with vortex, since that was my first quality scope I had and they have taken care of me so I didn't have a reason to switch. Otherwise I am sure someone else will chime in with some other brand great options as well.

 

[Greene]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

Check out the Bushnell's like or super sniper's line.

Ran a straight 10x S.S. out to 200yds on a 4" square with ease with a 22lr trainer.

Hope that helps.

 

[hollowpoint]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

I learned the ffp is really the killer.
The vipers actually the scope that has been on the top of my list. I am not sure if I should just get a Bushnell elite tactical 10x though for half the price. I want the mil's to be accurate so it stinks a bit that the variable wouldn't be as useful as i thought.
I would really like to be able to look up and read the knobs without changing cheek weld. Is that possible with the viper?

 

[timelinex]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

Yes that Is possible with the viper, They only times I put the caps on is leaving the range/shooting location. Otherwise the first thing that I did, even before putting my bolt in is take off the caps. Actually kind of nice having the piece of mind that the turrets aren't exposed while the rifle gets bumped around during transport.

As for FFP, since I changed to the PST I have really liked the FFP feature. In reality though it doesn't actually add that much benefit, but is just something really nice to have. BUT its more of a perk rather than a must have feature for me. I would much rather have a solid quality scope, better glass,more magnification and reliable tracking. The problem with the cheaper FFP's is that $$ compromise's take off from those core features. Admittedly that's my opinion though. You just have to be honest with yourself. If your purpose of this rifle is to constantly be reticle ranging then maybe FFP would be bumped up in importance... Otherwise if your like 99.9% of the other people, you really wont use the feature to its purpose to even notice the benefit more than a couple times a year.... compared to those other core features that you have to deal with always.

The non-variable magnification is a good way to cut costs, but in my opinion your losing ALOT. I change magnification often, depending on the situation, the distance, the weather and the target. I would even go as far to say that there hasn't been one shooting session where I didn't change the magnification atleast once. Just like FFP, its not a core neccessity to have variable magnification, but I think most would agree with me that its a much more used perk compared to FFP.

 

[hollowpoint]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

It's a trainer so the ffp isn't necessary. Would be nice, but I guess that can go on my next "real thing" build.
How does the clarity on the vortex compare to the s.s. or the bushnell fixed? i would probably spend most of my time in 14x where the viper is accurate but do either of those scopes have better glass that it might make sense to just grab one of them?

 

[JAAM12]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

The Bushnell 10x mil/mil is on sale at midwayusa. $179

 

[chemist1]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

If it is a paper only rifle and you want more than 10X magnification get the 16X ss. They have 100+ moa of elevation, are paralax adjustable and the glass is good enough for what you are wanting to do. If however, you are looking to use it for paper and hunting then a variable is a must. In that case I would recommend a Mueller APT or something similar.

 

[Longguns]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

HP, Not trying to be a S.A. so don't take it that way. Save your money and buy a good quality scope and don't scrimp. Buy once cry once is a good saying to go by. Get what you want the first time or you will never be satisfied. Good Luck with your choice and I know how you feel about scope selection. Suck's if you can't get what you want.

 

[hollowpoint]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/598484/...t-reticle-matte

anyone have any experience with these? price is right, mildot, variable, like the turrets, jap glass, really like the mil mil adjustments. seems to make more sense.

vtr, i appreciate the advice. this is going to be my first target rifle (i have a muzzleloader) so it's a bit of an experiment not just about the money. id rather not sink too much in if i decide in six months that i just dont have time to go out enough.

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

HP,
I have that scope on my .22 trainer, and I love it......was shooting it today out to 300.....

 

[hollowpoint]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

I think it's exactly what I want. I'm getting it.

 

[Longguns]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

HP, I think Lowlight did a review on that scope. Not sure if it was this exact scope but you could search and see. Good Luck on your selection.

 

[XTR]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

For a trainer, shooting paper. Get a weaver T. SWFA sells them for $429.95 I use an old SS 10X I had in the safe, but punching little dots on paper you want the finest reticle you can get. If I was buying a scope for my 22 I'd get a T-24 or a T-36. All the FFP ranging reticle stuff has absolutely no value on a paper target of known size and known distance.

You dial up the magnification on a FFP scope and the reticle is bigger than the hole you are shooting for.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All the FFP ranging reticle stuff has absolutely no value on a paper target of known size and known distance.</div></div>

Sure it does. You still have the issue of wind especially with a round thats more vulnerable like a rimfire. You need the ability to hold for wind at distance, dialing doesn't work very well since its variable.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dial up the magnification on a FFP scope and the reticle is bigger than the hole you are shooting for.</div></div>

Why do you need the reticle to be finer than the size bullet your shooting? Even a fine reticle is going to cover a 17HMR hole farther than about 200 yards and your not going to be able to see it anyway so it doesn't even matter. You need to be able to see your point of aim and thats it. You dont need a high magnification scope or a scope with a fine reticle to shoot a rimfire at distance, your going to be getting 1-2MOA at best passed the 200 yard mark so a .25moa thick reticle or .1mil thick reticle is just fine. They will allow you to hold much better than the rifle is capable of shooting.

 

[XTR]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All the FFP ranging reticle stuff has absolutely no value on a paper target of known size and known distance.</div></div>

Sure it does. You still have the issue of wind especially with a round thats more vulnerable like a rimfire. You need the ability to hold for wind at distance, dialing doesn't work very well since its variable.</div></div>

If you are shooting at targets where you know the ring sizes, and if you are training and not just pinking and plotting your shots you know exactly how far it is in MOA from the edge of the 9 to the middle of the X, or from the the middle of the 8 at 5 o'clock. If you are punching holes in a piece of paper with a post-it for a target then yea, the reticle has value.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dial up the magnification on a FFP scope and the reticle is bigger than the hole you are shooting for.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you need the reticle to be finer than the size bullet your shooting? Even a fine reticle is going to cover a 17HMR hole farther than about 200 yards and your not going to be able to see it anyway so it doesn't even matter. You need to be able to see your point of aim and thats it. You dont need a high magnification scope or a scope with a fine reticle to shoot a rimfire at distance, your going to be getting 1-2MOA at best passed the 200 yard mark so a .25moa thick reticle or .1mil thick reticle is just fine. They will allow you to hold much better than the rifle is capable of shooting. </div></div>

I seriously doubt that all of the OPs practice will be at 200 yds. I do 22LRs at 100 and at 50 yds. I mounted a Falcon Menace 5-25 for a while, hated it for paper. Holding on an aiming point that is nearly completely covered by your reticle is not conducive to small groups.


Here is one from my CZ at 50 yds.

This is not tactical, it is target practice.

 

[XTR]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

And another thing, i wouldn't get a .17 for a trainer, I'd get a 22LR (i did). Even good stuff like SK Jagd Rifle+ and Wolf Target Match cost a little over $4 per box and are no more than 1/3 to 1/2 the price of anything you can get for a 17.

 

[DOA]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

http://clearidgeoptics.com/default.aspx?act=pro&opt=detail&id=851

I have the Clear Ridge 3-9 Mil Dot. It is AO and very clear.
Recommended buy at Rimfire Central.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chemist1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is a paper only rifle and you want more than 10X magnification get the 16X ss. They have 100+ moa of elevation, are paralax adjustable and the glass is good enough for what you are wanting to do. <span style="text-decoration: line-through"> If however, you are looking to use it for paper and hunting then a variable is a must. In that case I would recommend a Mueller APT or something similar. </span></div></div>

I heartily agree on the SS16X, that's what I currently run, only scope under $500 I bother with, centerfire or rimfire (with the exception of Weaver T24's for sillhouette).

That said, my trainer is going to get a scope as close to my centerfire match guns as possible (USO SN3).

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Rimfire Trainer Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And another thing, i wouldn't get a .17 for a trainer, I'd get a 22LR (i did). Even good stuff like SK Jagd Rifle+ and Wolf Target Match cost a little over $4 per box and are no more than 1/3 to 1/2 the price of anything you can get for a 17. </div></div>

.17hm2 can be had for about 9 cents per round.....delivered. I would much rather shoot my .17hm2 than my .17HMR because it costs less than half as much! My Eley .17hm2 ammo is costing me less per round than my Wolf MT.