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Movie Theater Rise of Skywalker (don’t read if spoilers matter)

Dthomas3523

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Minuteman
  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Welp, fuck Disney for this. They have manage to basically make episodes 1-6 mean nothing.

    This isn’t the skywalker saga. With what they have done now, it’s basically the rise and fall of Sheev Palpatine and the skywalkers happened to be around during that time.
     
    Lol JJ Abrams is a hack fraud, and LucasFilm hired the idiot who wrote Justice League and Batman V Superman to write this.

    Ben and Rey should have both survived imo, at least would have made an actual happy ending. Also Ben became one with the force, shouldnt he have been with his mom and luke as a force ghost at the end as the Skywalker family?
    Everyone in the theater laughed when he just slumped over dead after kissing Rey. Also the only line he says as Ben is "ow"?
    Movie had a lot of pacing issues, unresolved character arcs, etc. too much to get into honestly.
    This is what happens when you start a trilogy without having the whole thing planned out in advance.
    I didn't like a lot of the last Jedi but at least Rian Johnson had some good ideas and a vision for a new direction and not a literal half ass copy of ROTJ.

    Actors did a good job with what they had to work with though. Adam Driver is one of the best actors out there in my opinion. Ridley and Boyega were good as well, although Finn got the short end of the stick as far as screen time and development. Good Comic relief from 3PO(don't get me started on that fucking fake-out memory wipe though).

    The leaks were right, GOT season 8 all over lol.
     
    It motherfucked the entire story.

    Nothing in episodes 1-6 even matter. Anakin apparently wasn’t the chosen one. Luke was a nothing burger.

    Basically, 1-3 show palpatine rise to power. 4-6 show his fall (that he “knew” would happen) and 7-9 that he is killed by his granddaughter.

    They call it the skywalker saga, and here’s how that goes:

    Anakin made by force (that palpatine likely orchestrated according to cannon comics)

    Palpatine used Anakin to destroy Jedi.

    Luke sways Anakin to turn on palps (that he forsaw)

    Luke has a failure and turns into a pussy (instead of the now non cannon badass Luke from the expanded universe)

    A palpatine off spring finds Luke. He’s still a pussy

    Luke dies in stupid non exciting way

    Luke gives the palpatine off spring some advice

    A palpatine off spring ends up killing Palpatine and then calls herself a skywalker.


    It’s all about palpatine. Which is fine. Just don’t call it the skywalker saga. Episodes 6-9 have basically put them in 2nd class.
     
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    Oh, and Ben was turned into just some sniveling emo kid the whole time.

    The force awakens (especially the opening scene) had the potential to really be an awesome trilogy. Instead the just fucked the whole thing over and turned the first 6 movies into background noise.
     
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    lol. why in the goat fucking hell is any Star Wars fan still watching these Disney Abominations? The whole point of TFA til now (minus Rogue One, which was accidentally excellent) was destroying the "cultural patriarchy" of the original films, unwriting normal white guy heroes into useless weak pussies, and basically destroying our childhood imaginations that we fondly look back apon. Fuck them with an aids-infested sharp pointy stick. I'll never watch another star wars movie again.
     
    Ive not seen yet but Ive looked up enough spoilers to have a good idea what happens.

    Ive lost all faith in movies. They've fucked up more stories than I can count. SW included.

    I remember seeing the originals when they came out. My brother and I fought over which of us would be the "bad ass" "flying" the X wing fighter toys or got to be Skywalker or drive the General Lee as Bo Duke. I got to watch as all of my childhood fantasies were crushed. Here was a chance for the stuff of legend from my childhood to be shown on the big screen in a way that wasn't possible when I was a kid.

    Sure, if they want to create a next generation set of characters great. But quit pissing on my childhood to do it.

    I will see ROS in theaters but I can guarantee there won't be many features down the road that I will. Im sick and tired of being treated as worthless to advance some fucked up agenda.
     
    Ive not seen yet but Ive looked up enough spoilers to have a good idea what happens.

    Ive lost all faith in movies. They've fucked up more stories than I can count. SW included.

    I remember seeing the originals when they came out. My brother and I fought over which of us would be the "bad ass" "flying" the X wing fighter toys or got to be Skywalker or drive the General Lee as Bo Duke. I got to watch as all of my childhood fantasies were crushed. Here was a chance for the stuff of legend from my childhood to be shown on the big screen in a way that wasn't possible when I was a kid.

    Sure, if they want to create a next generation set of characters great. But quit pissing on my childhood to do it.

    I will see ROS in theaters but I can guarantee there won't be many features down the road that I will. Im sick and tired of being treated as worthless to advance some fucked up agenda.


    Agreed. They should have used all these new characters in another trilogy. Not tied them in with a storyline that invalidates the last 6 movies.
     
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    They lost me at Episode 1. I waited 16 years for that movie!! I was 6 years old when STAR WARS came out. I walked out of the theater actually fuming mad.

    I liked SOLO a lot, and ROGUE ONE was the best Star Wars movie since ROTJ. The Mandalorian seems like it will be good. I don't have Disney+ so will have to wait a bit to watch it.

    So, the Star Wars Universe has managed to keep me, but they fucked up this story line a long time ago.
     
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    After 'fool me once' ,with the dancing midget teddy bears with spears . ' Fool me twice' with the NastyAss Rastafarian baby talking Lizard . I never watched another one past that point . Never forgive, never forget .
    .
     
    They lost me at Episode 1. I waited 16 years for that movie!! I was 6 years old when STAR WARS came out. I walked out of the theater actually fuming mad.

    I liked SOLO a lot, and ROGUE ONE was the best Star Wars movie since ROTJ. The Mandalorian seems like it will be good. I don't have Disney+ so will have to wait a bit to watch it.

    So, the Star Wars Universe has managed to keep me, but they fucked up this story line a long time ago.

    Disney + actually has a lot of good content.

    Mandalorian is pretty good so far. Hopefully they keep it up with the Obi Wan series.
     
    2nd movie I ever saw in the theatre was Return of the Jedi. I had no fucking idea what was going on but it was fucking awesome. Darth Vader actually scared the shit out of me.

    Mind you, the 1st movie I saw in theatres was Bambi. Yes, THAT Bambi.

    There's a few things in my life I have that just make people that know me go WTF. I'm a bit of a closet Star Wars nerd and fucking love Episodes 4-6. I have Star Wars games, sometimes wear random Star Wars shirts. Fuck, I ordered a baby Yoda shirt last week. I suffered through 1-3 because I just kept hoping that the backlash they received would motivate them to fix it, but it is what it is.

    I saw The Force Awakens on a plane coming back from Germany and was just annoyed. Not only was it literally a step by step, less interesting B rate rehash of A New Hope, but the script/story just sucked and the characters were all forgettable. That was the difference in the originals; even though they didn't have all the CGI bullshit they do now, the story kept you watching and you wanted to know more about the universe, the places they were and the characters, There wouldn't have been such a thing as 'too much backstory' or 'too much lore' - we wanted it!

    With the newer movies, I was waiting for them to kill off all of the boring as fuck 2D characters. I could not give less of a shit about Rey. Didn't care if black stormtrooper guy was an actual jedi, or if he go shot out of an airlock. Don't care.

    Rogue One was decent, and we FINALLY, after 7 Star Wars movies actually see Darth Vader fight people the way we were told he did.

    After the reviews and storyline of The Force Awakens came out, I went from 'this fucking sucks' to 'I'm going to shoot you all in the face at close range' and haven't watched any of it.

    Total fucking garbage.
     
    2nd movie I ever saw in the theatre was Return of the Jedi. I had no fucking idea what was going on but it was fucking awesome. Darth Vader actually scared the shit out of me.

    Mind you, the 1st movie I saw in theatres was Bambi. Yes, THAT Bambi.

    There's a few things in my life I have that just make people that know me go WTF. I'm a bit of a closet Star Wars nerd and fucking love Episodes 4-6. I have Star Wars games, sometimes wear random Star Wars shirts. Fuck, I ordered a baby Yoda shirt last week. I suffered through 1-3 because I just kept hoping that the backlash they received would motivate them to fix it, but it is what it is.

    I saw The Force Awakens on a plane coming back from Germany and was just annoyed. Not only was it literally a step by step, less interesting B rate rehash of A New Hope, but the script/story just sucked and the characters were all forgettable. That was the difference in the originals; even though they didn't have all the CGI bullshit they do now, the story kept you watching and you wanted to know more about the universe, the places they were and the characters, There wouldn't have been such a thing as 'too much backstory' or 'too much lore' - we wanted it!

    With the newer movies, I was waiting for them to kill off all of the boring as fuck 2D characters. I could not give less of a shit about Rey. Didn't care if black stormtrooper guy was an actual jedi, or if he go shot out of an airlock. Don't care.

    Rogue One was decent, and we FINALLY, after 7 Star Wars movies actually see Darth Vader fight people the way we were told he did.

    After the reviews and storyline of The Force Awakens came out, I went from 'this fucking sucks' to 'I'm going to shoot you all in the face at close range' and haven't watched any of it.

    Total fucking garbage.

    I just want a movie or a series about Vader between episodes 3 and 4. Just give me 2-8hrs if him hunting Jedi.

    Basically, give us a movie or series of the end of Rogue One. It would literally make billions.
     
    I just want a movie or a series about Vader between episodes 3 and 4. Just give me 2-8hrs if him hunting Jedi.

    Basically, give us a movie or series of the end of Rogue One. It would literally make billions.

    Just off the top of my head, a series/chain of movies about Vader and his explits as to why he such a badass as well as Boba Fett's bounty hunting career could go on forever and take you basically everywhere.
     
    With the newer movies, I was waiting for them to kill off all of the boring as fuck 2D characters. I could not give less of a shit about Rey. Didn't care if black stormtrooper guy was an actual jedi, or if he go shot out of an airlock. Don't care.

    Yes Cheers GIF - Yes Cheers Standingovation - Discover ...
     
    TLJ was the last straw for me. I didn’t mind abrams deliberate copy of a new hope to reboot the franchise for TFA. But the slap happy humor they tried to interject from the marvel franchise threw me off. I was super excited for TLJJ but then saw it and swore not to see the new one.
    Honestly fallen order the new game by EA is a 10x better story than the new trilogy. Which is mind boggling coming from how dreadful EA is lol.
     
    In retrospect, we should have known the story was fucked when they came out with ANOTHER Death Star. It should have been confirmed in our heads with the THIRD Death Star. How fucking unimaginative do you have to be to use the same giant looming evil THREE FUCKING TIMES?

    Why would you create the most badassed and interesting villan since Darth Vader in Darth Maul, and have him killed in such a ridiculously uninspired fight sequence with so little screen time?

    The Ewoks in ROTJ were regrettable, but at least there was a reasonable explanation for them. They were supposed to be Wookies, but by the time they realized it wasn't going to be doable, it was too late. So they chopped the Wookies in half and called them EWOKS. There isn't any excuse for the shit that followed in the six later films.
     
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    I thought TLJ was a good (not great) movie. Not the super hot load of fan service sauce the posters above seem to want everyone to think it was supposed to be. Even though they openingly admit they hated the prior 2....so did I. The last 2 sucked.

    TLJ supposes was to be a step towards fixing it. It was. Was not perfect. Was not terrible.

    They can move in any direction off this film freely.

    I was hoping Ben would have made it.

    And when Rey went back to Tatooine they should have restarted a new temple at Luke's home. The end being a new line jedi starting where it all began. Would make sense now with her wielding a yellow fun stick.

    They can move forward with Finn and his obvious force sensitivity. I didn't think it was necessary but at the same who cares....we more jedi at this point. They didn't go out of they're way to point at it.

    Poe was awesome in this. He had some good pilot action. Some good funny bits like getting shut down by the bounty hunter chick. Had some vulnerability....getting shot but needing to be a total bitch about it....also asking Leih for guidance when he didnt know he could lead.

    Lots spaceships....if you liked the spaceships....you got spaceships. Planet killing canons everywhere....wtf. The emperor returning with a mega fleet was reason enough to go.

    Buttface Asain girl was kept out of sight almost completely. Her role in the 3 movies is what needs to be removed entirely.

    Knights of Ren should've gotten fleshed out in prior film. Would have made the screen time they got better. But at least they got some.

    Sword fights were a tad weak I thought. The Ben vs Knights should've been way cooler. Either him wrecking them in just epic ways or them showing they are actual badasses and drawn out the fight a tad more.

    Palpatine power scale was pretty awesome. He died a tad quickly as well I thought. Little zappy zap and poof....gone.

    I'm actually looking forward to seeing future extended cuts and all the hidden background shit I didn't pick up on.

    Point is, they didn’t stick with an intelligent storyline that coincided with the first 6 movies.

    These movies completely invalidated the role of Anakin and Luke. At least in the sense of what their role was before TLJ and ROS.

    Now their role is: Anakin: fathered Luke. Luke: helped influence Rey.

    It’s the Palpatine Saga now.
     
    You do realize they can continue (and likely will) the story in some way shape or form.

    They may not be along this 3 film arc. But so what. The canon has jedi and sith that have feats and stories that make Luke look dull by comparison.

    They could easily do something placed in the future that makes what Luke and Anakin's parts were....be more pivotal in retrospect to get to where they are "now".

    Star Wars is not anymore a 100yr window of two or three individuals. Its pieces of a galaxy spanning 1,000's of years.

    Actually, there is no canon to speak of. They got rid of it all.

    Also, you don’t know your canon (legacy now). Luke pretty much became just about the most powerful force user ever (George Lucas confirmed this many times).

    But everything including Darth Nilghus, Emperor Vitiate, Luke (before Disney), etc etc etc......is all legacy content.

    The only Canon now is all movies, rebels, clone wars, current comics, mandalorian.

    The galaxy stories spanning thousands of years have all but been wiped out by Disney when they bought it. Hence the “legacy” title. Even SWTOR mmo is not canon.
     
    You do realize they can continue (and likely will) the story in some way shape or form.

    They may not be along this 3 film arc. But so what. The canon has jedi and sith that have feats and stories that make Luke look dull by comparison.

    They could easily do something placed in the future that makes what Luke and Anakin's parts were....be more pivotal in retrospect to get to where they are "now".

    Star Wars is not anymore a 100yr window of two or three individuals. Its pieces of a galaxy spanning 1,000's of years.

    And the complaints are not that they can’t/won’t continue Star Wars. They would be fools not to.

    The complaints are how they didn’t mesh with the current saga storyline. As well as trashing all the canon that had been developed for 20+ years.

    ROS is a decent movie when you look at it for just the single movie. When you look at it in the overall saga arc, it’s absolute shit.
     
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    I thought TLJ was a good (not great) movie. Not the super hot load of fan service sauce the posters above seem to want everyone to think it was supposed to be. Even though they openingly admit they hated the prior 2....so did I. The last 2 sucked.

    TLJ supposes was to be a step towards fixing it. It was. Was not perfect. Was not terrible.
    See i don't understand how anyone likes that movie. Both as a Star Wars story and objectively as a film it’s terrible. Dropping bombs in a an environment with zero gravity, Leia dying and then pulling herself back, making luke a stupid hermit that betrays everything he stood for, the retarded subplot about gambling and grabbing some kind of contraption, hyperspacing through enemies, the most awful choreographed light saber battle in history, etc. i could go on for hours. It’s utter trash and it’s no surprise because Rian Johnson is a moron. That crazy sob thinks TLJ will be see as fondly as The Empire Strikes Back lol.

    Rey is officially the biggest Mary Sue in Hollywood. And Star Wars is woke AF aka dead. Honestly it's depressing that they have the IP now. Rogue One was phenomenal we got that out of Disney but that's about it.

    Honestly they just should get whoever is coming up with KOTOR lore to write the next one and run with it. Cause these little CGI trailers are far more interesting than a bumbling storm trooper turned good, his woke female colleague, and her estranged emo friend fighting over who has more screen time.

     
    See i don't understand how anyone likes that movie. Both as a Star Wars story and objectively as a film it’s terrible. Dropping bombs in a an environment with zero gravity, Leia dying and then pulling herself back, making luke a stupid hermit that betrays everything he stood for, the retarded subplot about gambling and grabbing some kind of contraption, hyperspacing through enemies, the most awful choreographed light saber battle in history, etc. i could go on for hours. It’s utter trash and it’s no surprise because Rian Johnson is a moron. That crazy sob thinks TLJ will be see as fondly as The Empire Strikes Back lol.

    Rey is officially the biggest Mary Sue in Hollywood. And Star Wars is woke AF aka dead. Honestly it's depressing that they have the IP now. Rogue One was phenomenal we got that out of Disney but that's about it.

    Honestly they just should get whoever is coming up with KOTOR lore to write the next one and run with it. Cause these little CGI trailers are far more interesting than a bumbling storm trooper turned good, his woke female colleague, and her estranged emo friend fighting over who has more screen time.



    I’m with you. They should let EA (and whoever is writing swtor) just make movies. Hell, I’d even be in for it being a cgi movie.

    Better yet, let blizzard do the actual cgi and swtor writers do the story.
     
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    I'm lost ...kotor? Swtor?

    Extended Universe stuff. Kotor (knights of the old republic) was a console game. Swtor (Star Wars: The old republic) is a mmo game. They focus on the Galactic Republic far before the timeline of 1-9 movies. Back before the rule of two and such.

     
    I’m with you. They should let EA (and whoever is writing swtor) just make movies. Hell, I’d even be in for it being a cgi movie.

    Better yet, let blizzard do the actual cgi and swtor writers do the story.

    100% i'd kill to have 2 hours or so anything like the SWTOR or KOTOR trailers. Though from my understanding those trailers are extremely expensive to make. It's funny cause EA has had the IP forever and since Jedi Academy has failed to put out anything really worth purchase especially narrative wise. Then they drop Fallen Order on us and it's absolutely great. Probably the best star wars game to date if nothing for the narrative alone. Though i'm attributing most of that to Respawn Entertainment rather than EA.

    Another thing that comes to mind, while I legitimately love Rogue One it's one of my favorites, it's old source material any bit that Disney has had to produce that wasn't already established has been pretty terrible.

    I'd even kill for something like the Fallen Order. To see other Jedi running from the Empire as they were hunted down trying to restore the order.
     
    Here's a question some here may be able to answer for me then: what is the best way to jump more into the expanded Luke universe without getting bogged down with the MANY books and authors out there (without graphic novels)?

    I tried looking up books and authors and was quite shocked at how many were available and don't really know where to start. It seems that books may be my only way to learn of Luke Skywalker as was intended.
     
    Here's a question some here may be able to answer for me then: what is the best way to jump more into the expanded Luke universe without getting bogged down with the MANY books and authors out there (without graphic novels)?

    I tried looking up books and authors and was quite shocked at how many were available and don't really know where to start. It seems that books may be my only way to learn of Luke Skywalker as was intended.

    Easiest way is to Wikipedia or wookiepedia. Most of the EU stuff is there and easier to get caught up with than reading the books.

    Just realize it’s all “legacy” now and no longer canon as it once was.
     
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    Easiest way is to Wikipedia or wookiepedia. Most of the EU stuff is there and easier to get caught up with than reading the books.

    Just realize it’s all “legacy” now and no longer canon as it once was.

    Any suggedtions on books themselves? I read the history and timelines but want the stories. With so many, I can see it being too easy to get lost.
     
    Since there's a spoiler warning in the thread title (video is basically one big spoiler):

     
    Glad I didn't read to much into the comments here, this was an excellent movie and series closer for me. And I am one with the force and the force is in me.
     
    I saw it today. It was better than I expected. Lots of points I have problems with... basically Luke being put in the back seat.

    However, if I look at it from a view of not knowing much about ep 4-6, it was pretty good.

    I do wish Ghost Luke could have appeared and put a hand on Rey's shoulder to strengthen her during her fight with Palpatine. That little act would have spoken volumes.
     
    lol. why in the goat fucking hell is any Star Wars fan still watching these Disney Abominations? The whole point of TFA til now (minus Rogue One, which was accidentally excellent) was destroying the "cultural patriarchy" of the original films, unwriting normal white guy heroes into useless weak pussies, and basically destroying our childhood imaginations that we fondly look back apon. Fuck them with an aids-infested sharp pointy stick. I'll never watch another star wars movie again.

    Should have just locked the thread after this.

    Nuff said.
     
    I do wish Ghost Luke could have appeared and put a hand on Rey's shoulder to strengthen her during her fight with Palpatine. That little act would have spoken volumes.

    But he did, as did a host of Jedi, give Rey the strength for that one last stand.

    Besides, if a visual ghost were to return it should have been Anakin. He was the one promised to bring ballance to the force and the Jedi that returned, to which Return of the Jedi got its title.
     
    Welp, fuck Disney for this. They have manage to basically make episodes 1-6 mean nothing.

    This isn’t the skywalker saga. With what they have done now, it’s basically the rise and fall of Sheev Palpatine and the skywalkers happened to be around during that time.
    Daisy Ridley's accent completely turned me off in the first one. so I just couldn't get past it. Not to mention killing off Han Solo.
     
    the original star wars was genius. Rather than overdoing the film and turning into a prequel-esque clunker, they agonized over the flow of the movie, mercilessly cutting out massive amounts of fluff that would have ruined the pace. They cut out excessive backstory, and relied on hinted allusions which created a mythos and inspired our imaginations. They moved around scenes to introduce and then reinforce key points of the plot, rather than letting the story drag and weaken. It was a perfect storm of talent, story, and inspiration. Star Wars was Episode 4. It was all new. It stood on its own, and more. It was a masterpiece.

    The new shit that Disney peddles is woke, PC charged garbage that is crapped out without any thought and without any reason for existing beyond 1. to make money off suckers who are nostalgic to the point of having the lowest possible expectations, and hope they buy extra tickets for their kids. and 2. to take advantage of a profitable platform to preach the woke commandments that women of all colors should be in charge, gay or minority males are occasionally useful to them, and straight white males are evil Nazis who must be destroyed. And of course, any formerly heroic white males and their stories must be deconstructed and shown to be unnecessary and inconvenient. There is no real plot or story beyond this. Just a bunch of 2 dimensional cardboard characters frantically running around going pew-pew at each other with a bunch of explosions and death stars thrown in. Every new star wars follows the same retarded formula: Yay women. Boo white men. pew-pew. convoluted nonsense script and dialogue. insert woke message. more pew-pew. big explosion. closing credits.

    So screw Disney and Kathleen Kennedy. Screw their ideological collaborators JJ Abrams and that little neutered man bitch Rian Johnson. Disney bought Star Wars so they could rape it to death.
     
    Dropping bombs in a an environment with zero gravity,

    Not to mention laser bolts that follow a ballistic path... and that get weaker in power as they fly through space?

    Leia dying and then pulling herself back,

    The "Mary Poppins" moment was such a farce...

    It’s utter trash and it’s no surprise because Rian Johnson is a moron. That crazy sob thinks TLJ will be see as fondly as The Empire Strikes Back lol.

    The only reason TLJ isn't the worst Star Wars movie is because Lucas made TPM. Jesus, TESB is the fucking crown jewel of the series. Nothing else holds up to that movie. TROS had to fight it's way out of TLJ, which basically handicapped what the movie could be for so many reasons. Of course, Abrams was the Exec Producer on TLJ, so... who knows. Disney clearly has/had - at best - an utter lack of creative direction and story arc for the trilogy, and no one had the good sense to prevent Rian Johnson from painting the whole works into a corner in what needed to be the pivotal film in the trilogy. TFA needed to resurrect things and get the train back on the track. TLJ needed to advance the story, build out the new characters and develop them, and then still leave the whole works in a compelling "2nd Act cliffhanger" position to be resolved in TROS... and instead it ends up being a ho-hum joke of a movie that cripples the whole story line.

    I don't so much mind certain parts... I don't mind Luke becoming a hermit ala Yoda. I don't mind hyperspacing through someone else's ship to blow it up... I mean, why not? I don't mind the overly choreographed lightsaber battle, or the interplay between Rey and Kylo Ren. The whole arc that Poe Dameron is on sucked. Leia sucked. You could've left Finn and Rose out of the movie and not missed a thing.

    Once you dump all the virtue signalling "woke" story lines (which are completely unnecessary - you already have a very strong female lead in Leia, AND one of the main protagonists (Rey) is female, too...), you end up with about an hour of movie... leaving you another hour to an hour and a half to tell additional story that advances the trilogy instead of painting it into a ridiculous corner.

    That left TROS with a rather difficult task of unfucking everything Rian Johnson did while still buttoning up the series, with predictable results. Actually, I felt like, given the mess they made with 8, Abrams actually did a fantastic job - but it's like barely getting a first down when you're at 3rd and 45.
     
    The only reason TLJ isn't the worst Star Wars movie is because Lucas made TPM. Jesus, TESB is the fucking crown jewel of the series. Nothing else holds up to that movie. TROS had to fight it's way out of TLJ, which basically handicapped what the movie could be for so many reasons. Of course, Abrams was the Exec Producer on TLJ, so... who knows. Disney clearly has/had - at best - an utter lack of creative direction and story arc for the trilogy, and no one had the good sense to prevent Rian Johnson from painting the whole works into a corner in what needed to be the pivotal film in the trilogy. TFA needed to resurrect things and get the train back on the track. TLJ needed to advance the story, build out the new characters and develop them, and then still leave the whole works in a compelling "2nd Act cliffhanger" position to be resolved in TROS... and instead it ends up being a ho-hum joke of a movie that cripples the whole story line.

    I don't so much mind certain parts... I don't mind Luke becoming a hermit ala Yoda. I don't mind hyperspacing through someone else's ship to blow it up... I mean, why not? I don't mind the overly choreographed lightsaber battle, or the interplay between Rey and Kylo Ren. The whole arc that Poe Dameron is on sucked. Leia sucked. You could've left Finn and Rose out of the movie and not missed a thing.

    Once you dump all the virtue signalling "woke" story lines (which are completely unnecessary - you already have a very strong female lead in Leia, AND one of the main protagonists (Rey) is female, too...), you end up with about an hour of movie... leaving you another hour to an hour and a half to tell additional story that advances the trilogy instead of painting it into a ridiculous corner.

    That left TROS with a rather difficult task of unfucking everything Rian Johnson did while still buttoning up the series, with predictable results. Actually, I felt like, given the mess they made with 8, Abrams actually did a fantastic job - but it's like barely getting a first down when you're at 3rd and 45.


    I think JJ may get too much of a pass from fans on TFA.

    The narrative that Luke was a failure and a coward, who became a hermit to hide from his mistakes, was set by JJ in TFA. The same is true for Han and Leia failing their son, splitting up, and either hiding from the world (Han) or being stuck in the past and unable to move forward (Leia). In all of their cases, the basic premise of TFA is that nothing our heros did in Ep IV-VI matters, because the Empire is back (and stronger than ever) and they're all failures.

    TLJ is a horrible movie, and Rian has said he went into it with the intention of subverting everything traditionally "Star Wars" (that is, undermining everything old school fans love about SW), but he was expanding on themes set in motion by JJ.

    I suspect it's largely because that is exactly what Disney (Kennedy) wanted.
     
    The narrative that Luke was a failure and a coward, who became a hermit to hide from his mistakes, was set by JJ in TFA. The same is true for Han and Leia failing their son, splitting up, and either hiding from the world (Han) or being stuck in the past and unable to move forward (Leia). In all of their cases, the basic premise of TFA is that nothing our heros did in Ep IV-VI matters, because the Empire is back (and stronger than ever) and they're all failures.

    I can see where you get that... but I don't really agree with that premise, that the events in ep IV-VI don't matter. We see the same sorts of patterns in every day life - either in smaller, personal things (people have a failure, and withdraw from a community or whatever, rather than accept it for what it is - that they're not "perfect", etc), or in larger cycles where evil is seemingly defeated, but later re-emerges in a similar form. Fiction necessarily magnifies things for dramatic purposes, but you're basically just describing normal struggles of life writ large.

    Specifically in the SW universe, there's been about 30 years of relative peace under the New Republic that we basically don't even see in the big movies (the time between ROTJ and TFA). It doesn't appear to be a perfect time (I'm not completely up on canon and all the stories that occur in that timeframe), but neither were the "good old days" of the Old Republic, either. The galaxy doesn't know those 30 years without IV-VI, and things aren't set up to eventually eliminate Palpitine and for balance to return.

    That said... you might be right about Kenndy, et al at Disney, wanting to disrupt the previous arc and method of story telling - and it's quite possible she and others at Disney are responsible for the "wokeness" in TLJ as much as Johnson. It wouldn't really surprise me if that were the case. Either way, it's clear that no one had over-arching creative control over the SW universe. Otherwise, we'd likely have a much different episode IX.

    My point about VIII being terrible, though, is more centered around the fact that you could leave half of it on the edit bay floor and have a movie that tells the same effective story in one hour just as well as the movie that appeared in theaters - and that represents terrible story telling regardless of plot, character arcs, etc (ie, it was a terrible movie even for pure movie's sake, and not just SW universe purposes)

    But... ??‍♂️
     
    I can see where you get that... but I don't really agree with that premise, that the events in ep IV-VI don't matter. We see the same sorts of patterns in every day life - either in smaller, personal things (people have a failure, and withdraw from a community or whatever, rather than accept it for what it is - that they're not "perfect", etc), or in larger cycles where evil is seemingly defeated, but later re-emerges in a similar form. Fiction necessarily magnifies things for dramatic purposes, but you're basically just describing normal struggles of life writ large.

    Specifically in the SW universe, there's been about 30 years of relative peace under the New Republic that we basically don't even see in the big movies (the time between ROTJ and TFA). It doesn't appear to be a perfect time (I'm not completely up on canon and all the stories that occur in that timeframe), but neither were the "good old days" of the Old Republic, either. The galaxy doesn't know those 30 years without IV-VI, and things aren't set up to eventually eliminate Palpitine and for balance to return.

    That said... you might be right about Kenndy, et al at Disney, wanting to disrupt the previous arc and method of story telling - and it's quite possible she and others at Disney are responsible for the "wokeness" in TLJ as much as Johnson. It wouldn't really surprise me if that were the case. Either way, it's clear that no one had over-arching creative control over the SW universe. Otherwise, we'd likely have a much different episode IX.

    My point about VIII being terrible, though, is more centered around the fact that you could leave half of it on the edit bay floor and have a movie that tells the same effective story in one hour just as well as the movie that appeared in theaters - and that represents terrible story telling regardless of plot, character arcs, etc (ie, it was a terrible movie even for pure movie's sake, and not just SW universe purposes)

    But... ??‍♂️

    Ya, but no one goes to see a space opera for real life Luke had a mid life crisis and became a pussy pacifist.
     
    I liked this newest film. To me its biggest problem was trying to dig itself out of the hole created by The Last Jedi. That film was utter trash, for numerous reasons already listed. With a better part 2 of this trilogy, this would probably be a better film. There is just too much crammed into a single film here.

    that said, did everybody miss the Wedge cameo? That is the spinoff movie fans want! (I doubt Disney could write a decent story for it though)
     
    movie sucked...

    Got to love how Disney planted the lesbo kiss in there at the end. Just could resist. Not trying to hate on anyone, just saying how painfully obvious and political it was.

    Save your money and watch the Witcher on netflix.. WAY WAY better.... hell watch anything other then this movie... bang you head against the wall.....
     
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    I just saw it...rented it from RedBox.

    I would have been fucking pissed if I had spent $20 or more on this shit. TROS is the ONLY Star Wars movie ever, that I did not see in the theater. I'm glad I didn't waste my money this time.
     
    I'm a closet Star Wars nerd.

    The last two star wars movies were garbage and undermined the Anakin/ Vader arc ( Lucas said Star Wars was meant to be Anakin's story) and made Luke (the most powerful Jedi ever) a total puss.

    The best thing about Star Wars is Vader.

    Loved Vader in Rogue One and Rebels. The new comics show what a beast he is.

    I'm liking the Mandalorian and new Clone Wars stuff as well.
     
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    I actually enjoyed it. It was a bit of a mess.
    JJ tried to unfuck that complete piece of shit TLJ.
    He really tried to give some meaning to Luke's shitty treatment in TLJ.
    I would eat Daisey Ridley's ass.
    I wish they would have had a somewhat better Kylo/Rey relationship.
    Maybe a hookup where she turns him to the lightside as she rides his fully armed and operational meat sabre and ends up pregnant with his offspring.
    Would make a bit more sense to her identifying as a Skywalker at the end of the movie.
    Really, once they let the SJW's fuck the shit up, Disney realized they fucked over the fan base.
    I liked the Solo movie as well, I wish they had Ron Howard from the beginning, as he is an excellent director.
     
    This thread was a good read. I grew up on Star Wars and adores it until my adulthood. The Prequel Trilogy kinda bummed me out because I had such high expectations for them. Saw them in the theater and haven’t bothered since. The Sequel Trilogy is a dumpster fire though. It completely deconstructs and invalidates the original trilogy. As what another poster says, it’s the Palpatine Saga now. They completely trashed all the main characters of the OT. Han is a bad husband and a crappy father then completely abandons his entire growth arc and becomes the same guy we met in the original Star Wars. They take Luke and make him a defeated crabby old guy in the Last Jedi who thinks about killing his nephew. The most hopeful optimistic person in the entire OT and they completely abandoned his central character trait. Leia comes out Ok. Watching the movies from one to the next, you can tell there is no plan and therefore no flow. I can’t even get into all the plot holes and inconsistencies as that would fill a book. What a tremendous waste.
     
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