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Range Report RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

W

wi50

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 22, 2006
373
78
Wisco
Many of you are curious so this morning I thought I would run a quick test of the combo. Just loaded a few rounds of each for some quick testing to get a general area where to start from.

Accuracy International AE rifle, 24" factory 1 in 12" twist barrel
Lapua cases
CCI BR2 primers
RL 17
Hornady 208 gr A-Max
ammo temp was warm, kept it in my pocket, outside temp is just around 60 deg and my elevation here is 1200

46gr powder =2490 FPS
47= 2554 2559 2554
47.5gr = 2565 2570 2568
48gr = 2604 2580 2583

the 47 and 47.5 gr loads are just starting to flatten primers and by the chrono results it's where I'm going to stay. I'll load some at each charge and shoot some 600 yd groups soon.

the 48 gr load is a bit stiff cratering and flattening primers

accuracy... I'll test, I don't know how the 12 twist will do with them. Just shooting at a weed across the valley this morning though it'll do just fine.

Some of you fella's can run the numbers for yourself on drop and drift, if you do, please post them.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I don't have one of those magic internet chrony's that give higher velocities. I do think the mid to high 2500's is realistic and for those faster and longer barrels a bit more.

I seated to 2.975 to start with, I'll have to take the OAL tool and check how far it is to lands, I have 3 .308's here to check, FN SPR, AI AE and a Winchester 70 HBV

The cases are full to the neck at 47.5 gr
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

2550-2600 fps with the 208 will retain velocity and fight wind quite well downrange.

BC of .648 is easy to like.

 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Montanamarine, I havnt been able to find much data on RL-17 but I was told that it had a new process of controlling the burn rate by mixing the control agent in the powder insted of just coating the outside. Getting near 2600 fps with a 208 gr bullet from a .308 they damn sure did something differnt. Any idea what it dose with a 175 matchking?...

Thanks, Buck Garrett
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I would suspect you are not able to get enough 17 in the case for it to work any better than Varget / 15 / 4064 / 4895.

I do know that IMR 4007 worked well with big bullets seated out in 308. I was not able to get enough 4007 in the case to see an improvement in velocity/accuracy over the more "standard" powders used with the 175s in a 308.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

FCS, Where dose the burn rate lay with this powder,would it be better suited to a more overbore cartridge like the 7mm rem mag?

Thanks, Buck
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I've tested it with the lighter bullets too and you end up running out of room before you get them to the same velocities as faster burning powders.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...0997#Post760997

This powder is really better suited to the heavies in 308. I derived my data from Quickload. So far, its been quite a ways off though.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I've not tried any of the RL-17 but is sounds similar to IMR4007 which is between Varget and H4350. 4007 works great with heavy bullets in 308 and lighter bullets in 300 WSM.

 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Being the .375H&H loves RL15 and varget I would like to see what the RL17 dose with the 260-300 gr bullets..

Reguards, Buck Garrett
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Loaded some 270 gr TSX for a guy in a 375 H&H, best load was with all the Varget I could get in the case. OAL was longer than reloading manual, just short enough to fit in his magazine.
Might work great with the 300s but think it'll be a bust with the 270gr or lighter.

I'm guessing 17 is better fit for 6.5X47, 260, 7-08 where Varget/15/N140 or 150/ IMR 4064 pressures up too fast yet you don't have enough case capacity left for any of the 4350s, 19, N-160.
Light to mid range wight bullets in the short magnums would probably be another spot for 17.

 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wi50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have one of those magic internet chrony's that give higher velocities. I do think the mid to high 2500's is realistic and for those faster and longer barrels a bit more.

I seated to 2.975 to start with, I'll have to take the OAL tool and check how far it is to lands, I have 3 .308's here to check, FN SPR, AI AE and a Winchester 70 HBV

The cases are full to the neck at 47.5 gr </div></div>

So you can mag feed these from a WSM modified .308 mag, right?
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

you can seat them deep enough to mag feed, why not? Though as you seat deeper, you'll use up some of your case volume, in turn pressures will rise. You may gain some speed by seating them out as far as your rifle will allow and loading accordingly.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Interesting thread. I would like to see accuracy results. I have an AR-10T that has the 1 in 11.25 twist that swallows Berger 210's below 2400fps easily. I used Varget at 40 gr for that one just to see if they would stabilize. I don't think that Varget will get me to 2500 fps though. I can however fit 48~50 gr of H4350 in a case with the Berger 210 and I'll try a few worked up to see if that is a viable option for these heavy class bullets as well. It is hard to steer away from these "extreme" powders. The H4350 is in the same class as the RL17 I believe. May have to break out the drop tube again. I used Retumbo in a .243 the other day and was impressed with it too. I've got slow powders, heavy for caliber bullets and medium sized cases on the brain right now.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

IMR 4007 would be a good one to try with the 210s.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

N550 does a nice job with the 190-210s.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I can get the VV N550, and I am sure it will give more velocity, but I need to try some of the H4350 first. Temp swings here in Colorado are indeed extreme. Then again, 100+ fps might be woorth it with the heavies. Any one have any pet loads or the VV N550?
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Forget H4350, BTDT, no velocity. Have used alot of N550 in Hornady Match brass with 190SMK's. 47.0gr gets me up to 2700fps with my 26" barreled FN SPR.

Don
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I guess I'll have to get some of that high dollar Finnish powder....What primer does it like?
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

This is very interesting. Now you are pushing the 208 AMAX out of your AIAE. What kind of accuracy are you getting? I ran some ballistic data for the 208 AMAX and it looks very good if you can get the speed up to about 2500 fps. The 10 dollar question is can a 1:12" twist of AI stabilize the 208 AMAX? Please let me know. I would definitely want to try that in my AIAW.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of accuracy are you getting?</div></div>

From a 26" GAP Rock:

P1030951.jpg

43.5gr. > 2466fps (avg.), 44.0gr. > 2478fps (avg.)


P1030954.jpg

44.0gr. > 2418fps (avg.) *The flyer was me*
If you want a time saving trick, zero a digital caliber around a bullet (saves subtracting the .308").


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ran some ballistic data for the 208 AMAX and it looks very good if you can get the speed up to about 2500 fps.</div></div>

The 190 JLK is the best 308 bullet I've found based on calculations with velocities I've been able to acheive with various weight bullets up to 210gr.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 10 dollar question is can a 1:12" twist of AI stabilize the 208 AMAX? Please let me know. I would definitely want to try that in my AIAW. </div></div>

MontanaMarine does the 208 with a 1:12
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results


The 190 JLK is the best 308 bullet I've found based on calculations with velocities I've been able to acheive with various weight bullets up to 210gr.


got any hard info on the 190/210 jlk in 308?

 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Not yet. I'm going to buy some when I finish the 190 SMKs and 208 AMAXs I have.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

g3,

I'm using the 210 JLK in my factory Remington .308 with good results. MV is 2575 with the load I'm using, and the velocity at 1k is over 1300f/s, which was my goal. Powder is N550, which is a little slower than RE17. I haven't bought any of the RE17, just wondering if it's any cleaner than the other RE powders.

HTH,
DocB
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Doc B, what is the load and primer you are using? I ordered a reamer from Dave Kiff and I'll be able to make the seating depth whatever i want. I am hoping to get an OAL around 3.00-3.10 with the 210's with a Broughton 10 twist.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

ffl,

PM sent.

DocB
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Walter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone know where to get the 208 grain AMAX? Everyone seems out of them. </div></div>

Can't locate any N550 either........
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

FWIW, this report is a test comparing RL 17 to Varget with 175 SMK's;

.308 Win, 20" BBL
Remington Brass
Comparator OAL: 2.228" (.002" from Lands)
56 Degrees F, 45% Humidity, 2500 MSL

Varget:
41.0 2446
41.5 2473
42.0 2572
42.5 2558
43.0 2552
43.5 2626
44.0 2660
44.5 2666
45.0 2704
45.5 2722

No signs of excessive pressure with the exception of slightly dimpled primers starting at 44.5 grains.

RL 17
46.5 2563
47.0 2570
47.5 2600
48.0 2628
48.5 2648
49.0 2640
49.5 2688
50.0 2709 (Slightly Compressed)
50.5 2729 (Same)
51.0 2756 (Same) Not quite 100% fill.

No signs of excessive pressure, however when I used Lapua cases with that same ladder test, started to see excessive pressure signs at 50 grains. Seems to deliver extremely uniform results. Plan on running that same test with Federal and Winchester cases.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Woj,

I would think that the slower RL17 might be hampered a bit more than the Varget by the 20" barrel. Did you notice any differences in muzzle blast or flash?

tater
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I will probably be getting some RL17 for a test in my 300 SAUM with 22" barrel. It is purportedly ideal for the short magnums with med weight bullets.

tater
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I run a Surefire brake on my rifle. I didn't notice any muzzle flash at all. Recoil appeared to be slightly sharper than "normal" (FGM ammo) as the charge increased, as expected.

Looking forward to fine-tuning and I'll post the results.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I too am running the RX17 and 208's. I am running in my 20" savage.2.985" OAL.46.5 Gr. Federal brass. Groups well at distance, but only holds about 1 moa at 100 yards.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Woj8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW, this report is a test comparing RL 17 to Varget with 175 SMK's;

.308 Win, 20" BBL
Remington Brass
Comparator OAL: 2.228" (.002" from Lands)
56 Degrees F, 45% Humidity, 2500 MSL

Varget:
41.0 2446
41.5 2473
42.0 2572
42.5 2558
43.0 2552
43.5 2626
44.0 2660
44.5 2666
45.0 2704
45.5 2722

No signs of excessive pressure with the exception of slightly dimpled primers starting at 44.5 grains.

RL 17
46.5 2563
47.0 2570
47.5 2600
48.0 2628
48.5 2648
49.0 2640
49.5 2688
50.0 2709 (Slightly Compressed)
50.5 2729 (Same)
51.0 2756 (Same) Not quite 100% fill.

No signs of excessive pressure, however when I used Lapua cases with that same ladder test, started to see excessive pressure signs at 50 grains. Seems to deliver extremely uniform results. Plan on running that same test with Federal and Winchester cases.</div></div>

wow your getting some crazy fps for a 20 inch barrel. mine im able to push about 2565 at 44.5 gr of varget.

my round spec is:
COAL of 2.800
Case trim 2.005
175 SMK
Winchester Brass with fill capacity of 57.00gr of H2O
44.5gr of Varget

when I shot this setup it was about 52-55*

 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

winxp_man, what is your altitude? His is 2500', that plays a heckuva role in that fps difference.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

2500 ft ASL isn't giving him that great deal of benefit , sure it's better than 300ft ASL. Get up over 3500 - 4000+ ASL like some of the folks up in MT or NM and now your talking benefit of less drop.

RL17 is known for getting great speed out of loads. Unfortunately it's also known to be temp. sensitive. Many that use it have a cold weather and hot weather load.

 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drmarc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No way to use 208's at normal OAL, or close enough for standard mags and actions? </div></div>

You can but don't expect the same velocity. When I did my 208/308/17 testing I had one of the newer factory DBM equipped savages and it had 3" mags. A good rifle to use with the 208s since they have 1:10"barrels too.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Not to hijack, but what Savage DBM are you referring to Farlar? Is this a factory offering? Can it be retrofitted into an older Savage S/A? Thanks, Eric.
By the way, I just got in my 3 boxes of 208's from Midway!
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2500 ft ASL isn't giving him that great deal of benefit , sure it's better than 300ft ASL. Get up over 3500 - 4000+ ASL like some of the folks up in MT or NM and now your talking benefit of less drop.</div></div>

I follow your logic there, but there is one other issue. There are many other differences in atmospheric conditions (in addition to altitude) between those two locations that will also have an effect starting with velocity. It can be a benefit, regardless of how great the difference.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aerodynamic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">winxp_man, what is your altitude? His is 2500', that plays a heckuva role in that fps difference.</div></div>

I looked over his post and saw that. I'm running at about 1500ft of elevation. But it would seem that the temperature will have more to do with muzzle velocity over elevation.

I wonder if its the barrel. Maybe upgrade not just a standard Remington bull barrel.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winxp_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aerodynamic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">winxp_man, what is your altitude? His is 2500', that plays a heckuva role in that fps difference.</div></div>

I looked over his post and saw that. I'm running at about 1500ft of elevation. But it would seem that the temperature will have more to do with muzzle velocity over elevation.

I wonder if its the barrel. Maybe upgrade not just a standard Remington bull barrel.</div></div>

Barrels have a great deal to do with that as well. Any change is a change. But, elevation doesn't have a measurable effect on MV. I was incorrect on that one.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

I run 51.2 RL17 under 208 AMAX and brought them in from 3.07+ to 3.060". No idea on MV but it's a 26" bbl
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to hijack, but what Savage DBM are you referring to Farlar? Is this a factory offering? Can it be retrofitted into an older Savage S/A? Thanks, Eric.
By the way, I just got in my 3 boxes of 208's from Midway! </div></div>

I'm talking about the factory Savage mags that they currently ship on DBM models.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Gotcha. That is what I understood. Now to see if something like that will fit an older model... Although 2.850 to 2.900 ain't all that bad either. 3.000 would be E-ticket material.
 
Re: RL 17 & 208 A-Max .308 results

Don't listen to Falar, he is just another mall ninja who "claims" to shoot..... Speaking of claims, did you get that second chargemaster Falar? You did load a bunch of ammo for your 308 gasser right?
 
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